2009 MLB Regular Season Thread

[stevew]

Lee may not be as good as Halladay, but he's still very talented. And cheaper.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

WASN'T JOE CARTER ENOUGH!?!?

[samifan24]

This Cliff Lee trade is bullshit. Thanks, Shapiro.

[Lathum]

I wonder if the Mariners are now going to deal Washburn and that's why they got Snell.

[JS19]

I know it's probably out of the question, but do the Phillies still try to pursue Halladay? They seem to still have the personal available to acquire him. Imagine that rotation for the remainder of this yr, as well as next.

[MikeVic]

If I was Philly, I'd still try to get Halladay. I don't know how you pass up the opportunity to have a rotation like that for a couple years at least.

[Maple Leafs]

Might want to update that image, I'm pretty sure he's 1-for-5 now.

[stevew]

Pirates vs Giants going for the underscore again. Cain has pitched 9 scoreless, Duke threw 7 scoreless.

0-0 tie going into the 9th.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by stevew

Pirates vs Giants going for the underscore again. Cain has pitched 9 scoreless, Duke threw 7 scoreless.

0-0 tie going into the 9th.

Its like the incredible sulk of offenses. How the Giants suck....

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Might want to update that image, I'm pretty sure he's 1-for-5 now.

Oh yeah sorry, my mistake.

[watravaler]

Lee, like Buerhle(only without the evidence of post-season marbles/success), isn't an ace in the traditional sense, but he pitches like one on most nights, and MLB teams would be happy to have the guy at the top of the rotation.

Knapp is the only prospect with All-Star potential(imo) and the kid is only 18. Even though Lee has only really put it together in the past 2 years and is 30 years old, I expect the Phillies to give him the 5+ year contract Boras will probably demand.

Regarding Buerhle's perfect 15 innings, that feat may be one of the best any of us see in our lifetimes, just awesome. The Twins and their fans showed true class with the standing ovations.

[stevew]

Rowland-Smith had a no hitter broken up in the 7th vs the Jays.

[stevew]

There we go Gnats

[k0ruptr]

I love the deadline time of the year.

[k0ruptr]

Dola, I also think there is some kind of bigger deal looming that isn't being talked about as much.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Bigger than Brian Anderson? :-)

[k0ruptr]

lol. at least us chisox fans stick together eh. I'm thinking Josh Fields BIG!

[k0ruptr]

Sanchez to the giants is a done deal, apparently straight up for a minor leaguer according to mlbtr . not sure who the minor leaguer is yet tho.

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by k0ruptr

Sanchez to the giants is a done deal, apparently straight up for a minor leaguer according to mlbtr . not sure who the minor leaguer is yet tho.

The Pirates acquired SP Tim Alderson, the Giants' #4 prospect according to BA. Alderson was at AA Connecticut of the Eastern League. He'll likely go to Altoona in the same league. I think the Buccos did well in this one.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Pirates get Alderson for Sanchez? Wow.

http://community.post-gazette.com/bl...c/default.aspx

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

dola Giants fans are not happy.

Freddy Sanchez Traded to the*Giants - McCovey Chronicles

[lungs]

I'm not a fan of the intelligence the Pittsburgh front office has been displaying.

They'll turn things around much sooner than most think.

[CleBrownsfan]

Only the Tribe would trade away back to back CY Young winners - way to go Dolan! Thanks for buying a franchise you apparently can't afford. I hate being a fan of a team in a small market

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

dola Giants fans are not happy.

Freddy Sanchez Traded to the*Giants - McCovey Chronicles

They shouldn't be... horrid trade for San Fran!

[Lathum]

So of course the Mets are on a nice little run and Johan on the mound tonight and the game gets rained out

[lungs]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

Only the Tribe would trade away back to back CY Young winners - way to go Dolan! Thanks for buying a franchise you apparently can't afford. I hate being a fan of a team in a small market

Or they could continue to lose with the same guys. Sometimes ya gotta tear things down.

[Karlifornia]

I'm not horrified by the Freddy Sanchez trade. Yeah, giving up a high-level prospect for what seems to be an above average player is risky, but I don't think Alderson has a high ceiling. Time will tell, as always.

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

Only the Tribe would trade away back to back CY Young winners - way to go Dolan! Thanks for buying a franchise you apparently can't afford. I hate being a fan of a team in a small market

We can kiss Victor goodbye, too.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

I hate being a fan of a team in a small market

<--- A's fan...I feel ya

[Bad-example]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

I'm not horrified by the Freddy Sanchez trade. Yeah, giving up a high-level prospect for what seems to be an above average player is risky, but I don't think Alderson has a high ceiling. Time will tell, as always.

Yeah, I pretty much agree. Both deals netted major league quality players that will be around for a while and aren't blocking anyone. They didn't kill their system and set themselves up for a key offseason in addition to a chance to make the playoffs. Besides, the Giants have shown they know what they are doing with regard to young pitching in recent years. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

[Swaggs]

I'm pretty happy with the Pirates' haul for the day.

I like the idea that they added four somewhat promising, young arms. Almost like a mini-draft coup without having to pay all of the signing bonuses. If they hit on one or two of the four, I'll be thrilled. As it is, they pick up a stopgap shortstop in Cedeno and a player with a little bit of pop in Clement, along with the four lottery ticket starting pitchers, while significantly cutting payroll with three guys that they didn't want past this season anyway.

What I'd really like to see now is for the Bucs to sign Dominican FA Miguel Angel Sano with some of the money they are saving from Sanchez's contract.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Y'know, I've seen a lot of screwy stuff in my lifetime but I can't say that I've ever seen an umpire fist bump the catcher after the last strike of a game before.

But if you watched the Marlins-Braves tonight, then you could have seen (so-called) umpire Bill Hohn do it. The best part is the look on Chipper's face in the dugout when he saw it.

Hohn is the same guy Chipper had to be restrained from killing a few weeks ago, the same guy who not only went to the dugout looking for Cox to find a reason to eject him tonight but actually took out the lineup card in order to record the ejection before Cox started talking to him, and he got McCann just for the hell of it as he got ready to warm up a reliever to start the 8th.

But if the fist bump with a Florida player in apparent celebration of the Marlins win isn't a suspension for this goofy looking sumbitch, then I'm not sure what it would take for an umpire to get one.

[tarcone]

Cardinals-Dodgers game is OUTSTANDING tonight. 2-2 in the 15th. Cards tied in the bottom of the 9th on a Colby Rasmus 2 out single. Manny was thrown out at the plate. Diving catches. SSs going deep and making great throws. Great pitching, great defense, clutch hitting. Definitely playoff baseball tonight.

[tarcone]

Ryan leads off the bottom of the 15th with a triple into the LF corner!!!

[k0ruptr]

and now they may fail to score after getting thrown out at the plate

[k0ruptr]

ball game. Pujols is a machine

[tarcone]

Whew. Ryan thrown out at the plate with one out. Pujols comes through with a shot over the CFers head scoring Lugo from 2nd. What a great game.

[BishopMVP]

Agreed that the Pirates got a decent haul. The Seattle trade is more head-scratching than the Giants one - I've heard varying reports on Alderson, with some putting him at a #4 ceiling. Seattle if anything I thought would be sellers, not buyers. For a team that isn't particularly close to contention and has been bad the past couple years, they really should have broken it down and tried to rebuild behind guys like Clement, Jones, Hernandez etc.

[stevew]

With Clement, Garrett Jones and delwyn young the Pirates have a solid rotation for the DH position.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Y'know, I've seen a lot of screwy stuff in my lifetime but I can't say that I've ever seen an umpire fist bump the catcher after the last strike of a game before.

But if you watched the Marlins-Braves tonight, then you could have seen (so-called) umpire Bill Hohn do it. The best part is the look on Chipper's face in the dugout when he saw it.

Hohn is the same guy Chipper had to be restrained from killing a few weeks ago, the same guy who not only went to the dugout looking for Cox to find a reason to eject him tonight but actually took out the lineup card in order to record the ejection before Cox started talking to him, and he got McCann just for the hell of it as he got ready to warm up a reliever to start the 8th.

But if the fist bump with a Florida player in apparent celebration of the Marlins win isn't a suspension for this goofy looking sumbitch, then I'm not sure what it would take for an umpire to get one.

I saw that and meant to post something about it. Even as a Marlins fan, Hohn's dealings with the Braves last night all around was horrible. He was definitely the "star" of the game.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

What the hell does Zack have to do to get a win. He's without question the best pitcher in baseball, yet the Royals continue have issues giving him any sort of run support. In 5 starts in July, he's given up 9 earned runs. His record during that stretch? 0-3. I'm going to be SO PISSED if the Royals offense manages to steal a Cy Young award from Greinke.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

What the hell does Zack have to do to get a win. He's without question the best pitcher in baseball, yet the Royals continue have issues giving him any sort of run support. In 5 starts in July, he's given up 9 earned runs. His record during that stretch? 0-3. I'm going to be SO PISSED if the Royals offense manages to steal a Cy Young award from Greinke.

Get traded to the Yankees.

I watched Maddux go through that same thing back in the day with the Cubs. He got one in 92, but had a couple 20 win seasons stolen from him since the team was shit. There should be no doubt that he's the Cy Young winner in the AL, but ESPN will push hard for Beckett if he wins 20.

[ISiddiqui]

"Without question the best pitcher" in the American League. Not in all of baseball. Greinke has an ERA+ of 207, but in the National League, Dan Haren has an ERA+ of 206 (and Haren has a WHIP of 0.858 ) and Matt Cain has an ERA+ of 202. So, yah, both of them have an argument.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

"Without question the best pitcher" in the American League. Not in all of baseball. Greinke has an ERA+ of 207, but in the National League, Dan Haren has an ERA+ of 206 (and Haren has a WHIP of 0.858 ) and Matt Cain has an ERA+ of 202. So, yah, both of them have an argument.

but...but...oh...you said era+

*shuts up*

what we need is like WHIP+ or something though. evaluating anything across leagues without normalizing for the league averages is criminal.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

what we need is like WHIP+ or something though. evaluating anything across leagues without normalizing for the league averages is criminal.

According to the stats at baseball-reference, the current league average WHIP in the NL is 1.38, the AL average is 1.39.

Wouldn't that mean that the apples-to-apples (on the current season to this point)works to an extremely close margin without the need for normalization?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

According to the stats at baseball-reference, the current league average WHIP in the NL is 1.38, the AL average is 1.39.

Wouldn't that mean that the apples-to-apples (on the current season to this point)works to an extremely close margin without the need for normalization?

didn't realize that. good stuff. the answer is yes then (of course).

[ISiddiqui]

I was just remarking how incredible that WHIP is, yes, prior to normalization or whathaveyou.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

didn't realize that.

Well, full disclosure requires me to admit that I didn't either until I checked the numbers.

the answer is yes then (of course).

Sadly though, I wouldn't call it an "of course". I actually hesitated before posting to try to figure out what could throw it off?

Did I need medians, not averages? Did inter-league play have an affect? Should I consider average park factors across both leagues? Do I need to normalize each pitcher based on the parks they've actually pitched their innings in versus the league average?

I at least knew enough to consider, however briefly, those things off the top of my head, regardless of whether I knew how to compute or where to find that info or cared enough to do so. I feel pretty safe that the average fan couldn't have gotten anywhere near half those things, and I would have gotten fewer if I hadn't played/reverse engineered/grognarded so many tabletop sports games over the years.

And people wonder why the newer stats don't get a lot of mainstream love?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Well, full disclosure requires me to admit that I didn't either until I checked the numbers.



Sadly though, I wouldn't call it an "of course". I actually hesitated before posting to try to figure out what could throw it off?

Did I need medians, not averages? Did inter-league play have an affect? Should I consider average park factors across both leagues? Do I need to normalize each pitcher based on the parks they've actually pitched their innings in versus the league average?

I at least knew enough to consider, however briefly, those things off the top of my head, regardless of whether I knew how to compute or where to find that info or cared enough to do so. I feel pretty safe that the average fan couldn't have gotten anywhere near half those things, and I would have gotten fewer if I hadn't played/reverse engineered/grognarded so many tabletop sports games over the years.

And people wonder why the newer stats don't get a lot of mainstream love?

to be fair you're right...there are probably additional things that could go into it (park factors especially, interleague play schedule), but as a ballpark approximation it's helpful.

it also doesn't necessarily take into account the strength of NL lineups versus AL lineups (pitchers vs. DH, generally weaker offensive players at some positions in the field, the use of pinch hitters who are not league-average hitters), but again, as a rough-rough approximation i'm more or less okay with it.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I'd say the fact that NL pitchers are having just ask much success getting NL hitters out as AL pitchers are having getting AL hitters out would bolster the AL guy's WHIP. The twin swords of 8 hitters vs. 9 and the generalized belief that hitters in the AL are better than those in the NL being the reasoning.

edit: As DT said.