*World Cup Game Discussion Thread* (SPOILERS)

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by thealmighty

Materazzi is a punk/bitch/asshat/dick/thug.... I agree 100%.

However, I don't give a crap what the guy said, did, meant, whatever it was. Zidane possibly cost France a World Cup for his actions, we'll never know (he would have been first to take a PK, I would think).

You could take out a picture of my mother giving you a bj in the 6-yard box in front of 76,000 at halftime...and I'd still wait until the game was over to kill you.

Would you? Its easy to say that now, but we generally do hold athletes to a standard that most men would not be able to adhere to. I'd think in that situation you described, just about every man would go after the other player in rage.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I think you're underestimating how much a shot to the sternum hurts.

so true and also why in martial arts most quick strikes go straight for the sternum...

FM

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Celeval

And Portugal won "Most Entertaining Team".

You've got to be kidding me. I guess they didn't have the heart to award it to a team knocked out in the first round (Ivory Coast). But then, most entertaining 'always' goes to the team finishing 4th.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

You've got to be kidding me. I guess they didn't have the heart to award it to a team knocked out in the first round (Ivory Coast). But then, most entertaining 'always' goes to the team finishing 4th.

Not only were the Ivory Coast deserving, but Ghana was incredibly entertaining as well. And, personally, Spain always entertains me with how quickly their talented squad gets bounced from the tournament .

Though it isn't always the 4th place team. The first two years of its awarding (1994 and 1998) it went to the champions. But, the Italians, while many things, are not that entertaining .

[Critch]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

This reuter's article:

http://au.movies.yahoo.com/060525/11/q607.html



Seems to indicate that he was in a shoving/fighting match at the end of the game, similar to the Argentina/Germany fracas. Paints a far different picture than saying he was sent off for punching (which implies a sucker punch or during the flow of the game). I mean people don't look down on Frings for his punch in the fracas at the end of the Argentina game... or call it an extremely violent act on his part.

Yes, he punched a Villarreal defender who took the ball of him, that's why the article says the film "packs a punch".

I'm not arguing that Zidane is a violent player, just that he has a record of losing his temper. This isn't Materazzi pushing some angel too far, it's not like Zidane has never been suspended for headbutting an opponent. So we should hold off on the rush to assume that Materazzi must be some kind of religious bigot/ racist til there are some facts, more than just "Gallas says so" too.

Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if Materazzi did do something. If a central defender can get under an opponents skin and needle him into getting himself sent off, it's the kind of thing he'd do. Plus Zidane speaks Italian, so Materazzi would have no problem making himself understood.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

so true and also why in martial arts most quick strikes go straight for the sternum...

FM

But do they generally suggest to strike it with your head?

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

But do they generally suggest to strike it with your head?

same difference, it a sensitive point and a shot to the solar plexus hurts like a lot, seriously.

FM

[Fidatelo]

OK, given that I've never actually been headbutted in the chest, I'll take the advice of the majority and assume that it would hurt.

That doesn't change my mind that I think it was a lame way to attack someone, a real man* would jersey the punk and punch him in the face until he crumpled to the ground or the refs pulled him off.



* Please note that I do not claim to be a real man myself. I would likely have formulated a sternly worded e-mail to send to Mr. Materazzi shortly following the match.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

* Please note that I do not claim to be a real man myself. I would likely have formulated a sternly worded e-mail to send to Mr. Materazzi shortly following the match.

you know, I take kenpo classes but would probably have done the same thing

FM

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

OK, given that I've never actually been headbutted in the chest, I'll take the advice of the majority and assume that it would hurt.

That doesn't change my mind that I think it was a lame way to attack someone, a real man* would jersey the punk and punch him in the face until he crumpled to the ground or the refs pulled him off.



* Please note that I do not claim to be a real man myself. I would likely have formulated a sternly worded e-mail to send to Mr. Materazzi shortly following the match.

The top of your forehead is a very hard point. Getting hit with it hurts a lot. Have a friend headbutt you if you don't believe it.

I was shocked at how much Zidane's attack seemed to be intent to injure rather than the standard soccer player attack of pushing and shoving. I'm pretty sure Zidane would have headbutted him in the head if he wasn't a half-foot shorter than him. I don't see how pulling a shirt over someone's head is anymore "manly'" than a headbutt.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

The top of your forehead is a very hard point. Getting hit with it hurts a lot. Have a friend headbutt you if you don't believe it.

I was shocked at how much Zidane's attack seemed to be intent to injure rather than the standard soccer player attack of pushing and shoving. I'm pretty sure Zidane would have headbutted him in the head if he wasn't a half-foot shorter than him. I don't see how pulling a shirt over someone's head is anymore "manly'" than a headbutt.

Agree with this. I was very shocked about the violent nature of the headbutt. Somebody pissed off would have pushed and showed, tried to swing a couple punches and such before a teammate, opponent or referee got in between but no, he went straight for the almost undetectable, or at least very unexpected swift headbutt...

FM

[ISiddiqui]

BBC has a report on Zidane's motivations:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...ce/5164094.stm

I like how Materazzi says he doesn't know what "terrorist" means. Yeah... that's plausible! And then his dad saying Materazzi was the one provoked! LOL!

__________________
"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages"
-Tennessee Williams

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I like how Materazzi says he doesn't know what "terrorist" means. Yeah... that's plausible! And then his dad saying Materazzi was the one provoked! LOL!

I was going to say his English might be limited and he might not recognize the word if the question was posed to him in English ... but the italian translation I believe is terrorista, so you would think he could figure it out. The guy is a tool, but the only one whom Zinedane can blame for losing his cool is himself.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

BBC has a report on Zidane's motivations:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...ce/5164094.stm



[/size]

I like how Materazzi says he doesn't know what "terrorist" means. Yeah... that's plausible! And then his dad saying Materazzi was the one provoked! LOL!

[cartman]

Originally Posted by moriarty

I was going to say his English might be limited and he might not recognize the word if the question was posed to him in English ... but the italian translation I believe is terrorista, so you would think he could figure it out. The guy is a tool, but the only one whom Zinedane can blame for losing his cool is himself.

A lot of curse words are similar between French, Italian, Spanish and English. So it is pretty easy to make yourself known if you want to.

[ISiddiqui]

Uh... I didn't realize that provocation and personal responsibility had to be mutually exclusive things.

That must be new .

[MikeVick7]

I like how, since Zidane hasn't come forward yet in saying exactly what was said, I've seen four different "reports" on what was said.

They have ranged from Materazzi saying something about..

a) him being a terrorist
b) his sister
c) his religion
d) his kids

And that's within just 24 hours since the game started.

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Would you? Its easy to say that now, but we generally do hold athletes to a standard that most men would not be able to adhere to. I'd think in that situation you described, just about every man would go after the other player in rage.

I honestly think that most people would not even respond, let alone attack a guy with ten minutes left in a World Cup Final.

If anyone has played organized team sports at any level, they will know that there is a huge amount of trash talking that goes on throughout every single game. You deal with it, and if you can't deal with it without lashing out you are just not mentally strong enough.

[ISiddiqui]

At some point trash talking gets really nasty and outbursts are not out of the realm of possibility. Like I said, I remember Spanish league games where the players just about broke down into tears and wanted to leave the field until his teammates persuaded him to stay, all because of racist chants from the crowd.

It isn't simply as easy as saying "you aren't mentally strong enough".

[cartman]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

It isn't simply as easy as saying "you aren't mentally strong enough".

I think Ryan is saying that because unless you are an English Mother Tongue speaker, you wouldn't be able to understand the Scottish taunts anyway...

[Huckleberry]

Yeah, it is that simple.

The player in La Liga wasn't mentally strong enough, either.

If the guy was vile and disgusting about Zizou's mom or something, then he deserved an ass-beating. After the match.

[vyshka]

"It is absolutely not true, I did not call him a terrorist. I'm ignorant. I don't even know what the word means," the Italian news agency Ansa quoted Materazzi as saying after the Italian team returned to Rome.

I am going with the claim of calling him a terrorist being true. What kind of moron would believe that any adult with half a brain doesn't know what a terrorist is? Especially in Europe. Materazzi is an asshat and Zidane should have popped him in the face instead of the chest.

Unless France would have scored in OT Zidane being sent didn't affect the outcome except perhaps making it 5-4 on pks instead of 5-3. Trez still would have taken his pk and missed. Barthez wouldn't have stopped any of the pks.

There were quite a few mics around the field so I am wondering if any of them caught the incident. I think they should both submit to polygraph since they are claiming different things. We want the truth!!

[ISiddiqui]

Because, as we all know, athletes are supposed to be supermen. Hey, he should have gotten thrown out, but 99% of all the guys I know, if someone said something vile and digusting about their mothers (and if the guy wasn't a freaking behemoth) would go absolutely nuts on them. I mean there is a reason the US has a 'fighting words' exception to the 1st Amendment.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Hey, he should have gotten thrown out, but 99% of all the guys I know, if someone said something vile and digusting about their mothers (and if the guy wasn't a freaking behemoth) would go absolutely nuts on them.

Then 99% of the guys you know are morons. Materazzi was just trying to get under his skin and make him do something stupid. Mission accomplished.

It's not like he likely even believed what he said, if he did say something extremely vile and over the line. He's trying to win the World Cup. If you can get someone on the other team sent off, you do it. I'm sorry if that offends your sensibilities... but how many times have we seen players in the NBA get into it after listening to jawing and getting bumped all night long? A lot. Difference is, this is the biggest sporting event in the world. If you're Zidane, you keep your head down and your mouth shut no matter what anyone says. NO MATTER WHAT. You're not playing for some French League Cup here, you're not playing for the Champions League here... it's the WORLD CUP.

[ISiddiqui]

Materazzi may have gotten under Zidane's skin, and he fell for the bait, but if the wordage was as nasty as rumored, most people will probably be understanding (many probably because they know what a nasty shit Materazzi is). Zidane may have lost his head and done something stupid that hurt his team and that may have caused him to miss out on the hardware, but I have a feeling that, in the end, Materazzi will end up looking like the villian. But perhaps Materazzi doesn't care because that was his mission.

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by vyshka

I think they should both submit to polygraph since they are claiming different things. We want the truth!!

Umm, I don't think Zinidan's claimed anything yet ... at least publicly. It was a rumour that the Italian was responding to, Zinidan isn't talking.

As Critch (I think it was him) mentioned, this isn't the first time it's happened with Zidane. He's the type that is subject for provocation, and like it or not, people will feed off that once it is known as a weakness. The Italian was a tool, but Zinidan has been around long enough not to fall for such a cheap trick.

The book on Rooney coming into the WC was similar. Get him to lose his head and he'll lose his temper and get a red ... and look what happened when Portugal prodded him? The only difference is Rooney is a young lad with room for maturity ... Zidane should know better.

[FrogMan]

don'T know if this has been posted already, if so, sorry for the repost, but I found it pretty funny...
http://tonaz.altervista.org/zidane.html

FM

[ISiddiqui]

Zidane should probably know better. I guess it is an open secret on him though that he really is uber defensive about his heritage . Shame it had to be exploited like that. He should probably realize it, but sometimes, that emotion and fire you play with doesn't leave room for contemplation like that in the heat of the moment.

[kingfc22]

Of course, I still think he only got a red because they showed the replay in the stadium. Not saying he didn't deserve it however.

[thealmighty]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Would you? Its easy to say that now, but we generally do hold athletes to a standard that most men would not be able to adhere to. I'd think in that situation you described, just about every man would go after the other player in rage.

It wasn't really a fair analogy because I don't like my mother. Have seen her once in the past 4 years or so. Still, my point, however overblown, I stand by.

[jbmagic]

Materazzi only told him that he hated french fries.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Of course, I still think he only got a red because they showed the replay in the stadium. Not saying he didn't deserve it however.

everywhere I read, they're saying that the replay was NOT shown in the stadium and that rings true with the fans whistling and booing everytime the Italians got control of the ball right after Zidane was sent off. I remember the TV commentators (canadian TV here so no Balboa for me ) also commenting that it was not shown in the stadium because they do not replay bad incidents in order not to get the crowd worked up or something like that...

Fwiw, FIFA is also saying that it was the 4th official who alerted the referee via their headset system, and not the 5th official who's in the boot and has access to video replays.

FM

[MikeVick7]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

everywhere I read, they're saying that the replay was NOT shown in the stadium and that rings true with the fans whistling and booing everytime the Italians got control of the ball right after Zidane was sent off. I remember the TV commentators (canadian TV here so no Balboa for me ) also commenting that it was not shown in the stadium because they do not replay bad incidents in order not to get the crowd worked up or something like that...

This is what I've heard and read too.

[Critch]

British news has reported that Zidane claims that Materazzi called his mother a whore.

[sabotai]

On SomethingAwful.com, they are posting animated gifs of the headbutt. This one is my favorite so far. (uploaded to my site, not linked from somethingawful)

[MIJB#19]

Hey, they took that from the Dutch tv live feed!

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Critch

British news has reported that Zidane claims that Materazzi called him mother a whore.

Then you reply saying that told you denied pleasing that crazy because . Or you say nothing and walk away so you can show the guy the beautiful trophy you won and he didn't.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Critch

British news has reported that Zidane claims that Materazzi called his mother a whore.

That's the Italian equivalent of calling someone a "son of a biatch". Figlio di puttana is the Italian phrase, and it exactly translates as "son of a whore". In the latin countries, bitch and whore are used as synonyms.

[DaddyTorgo]

thank the lord that france lost. and double thank the lord that that idiot zidane ended his international career with a red card when his team needed him most!

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by cartman

That's the Italian equivalent of calling someone a "son of a biatch". Figlio di puttana is the Italian phrase, and it exactly translates as "son of a whore". In the latin countries, bitch and whore are used as synonyms.

If that's all it was, then Zidane needs to take some anger management classes. Unless his mother actually was a whore and he's a little sensitive about it.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Oh, and are you really proud that you let 10 year old girls soccer get so out of control by not calling fouls that one felt she had to punch another in the face? This is a good thing?

I didn't say I don't call fouls - I just never gave out cards unless the person was intent on injuring instead of trying to make a play on the ball. And the punch by that girl happened in the first 5 minutes of the game away from the ball. Luckily their coach was right there and jumped in quickly, because the whole thing was surreal.

Originally Posted by thealmighty

He's not a whining pussy. He's a lowlife cheater.

Must've confused him with all the Italian forwards and midfielders then.

1. 10 year olds are diving?
2. If her dad congratulated her for the punch, that would explain alot.

1. 1. No, I reffed up to U17 games (girls and guys) and all the dives were in older age groups. 2. If you know anything about this area, it was a team from Billerica, and I did see the coach in a heated argument on the sideline later.

Anyway whatever, Zidane is a horrible person and a disgrace to the sport, and his actions should be condemned so somebody thinks of the children if it makes you feel better.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Materazzi may have gotten under Zidane's skin, and he fell for the bait, but if the wordage was as nasty as rumored, most people will probably be understanding (many probably because they know what a nasty shit Materazzi is). Zidane may have lost his head and done something stupid that hurt his team and that may have caused him to miss out on the hardware, but I have a feeling that, in the end, Materazzi will end up looking like the villian. But perhaps Materazzi doesn't care because that was his mission.

You're pathetic.

[Toddzilla]

[Toddzilla]

Hey! Its MAXIMUM World Cup!

[Toddzilla]

Oh, this one is pretty riotus...Super Mario Zidane

hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnXhplwD1m0

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Oh, this one is pretty riotus...Super Mario Zidane

hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnXhplwD1m0

That's awesome.

[Groundhog]

Some more solid "defensive work" from Materazzi:

hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Gyu8W1g2co

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Logan

You're pathetic.

At least I'm right .

[JonInMiddleGA]

FWIW, I saw this in another forum re: the magic words.

The other guy called him "Algerino di merda" and "Terrone". The first one means "Sh*tty Algerian" and the second means "Earth Colored", the racial slur used in Northern Italy to insult dark skinned people from Southern Italy and Northern Africa.

The latter seems to ring accurate to me, in light of the early stories that claimed he had called Zidane "a terrorist" (which seemed rather random).

[Mac Howard]

There's a lot of special pleading for Zidane. After nearly 20 years in the game he should be able to recognise a windup by now and ignore it. I don't care what was said, you learn to ignore it and get on with the game. He has serious anger management problems.