Werewolf XLI - Apocalypse Awakens - Game over!

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

IF BLIND MAN TRUSTS SPIDER MAN, THEN BLIND MAN MUST TRUST HULK.

Hulk, buddy, I love ya, but I've got to side with those holding back on completely trusting you right now. A few days ago I trusted you completely, but now that it appears that Horsemen don't all participate in an attack (like I originally thought), just because you stayed home doesn't automatically clear you. You're cleared from the murder of Sinister, but I'm afraid that's all. I do, however, consider you and Deadpool a step above those that haven't had anyone vouch for any of their actions yet. Small consolation, I know, but better than nothing.

SPIDER-MAN

[gi]

Going to heed some help deciding how gets lynched today. I'm going to be turning in my selection early since I will be busy (OOC: with EUIII tonight) later. Who are the top 3 to get it today?

[Poli]

My best guess at this point is the mathman. I went back and forth on whether to try and clear him or not yesterday.

Just my guess.

[Bonegavel]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Wolverine still from yesterday, more so after america gets killed scanning wolverine(if he wasnt lying), and spiderman because it doesnt look to me like ardent scanned if he was good. Only if he followed someone last night.

(Wolverine)

DD can scan this:

I did nothing last night. I did not harm/attack/do anything to Captain America last night. I swear this is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

I thought DD was the one that asked us to repeat that pledge so he could detect the truth in it. I recited that and will recite it again if needed.

I admit that just because I killed a horseman at night doesn't 100% prove I'm not Evil. However, I think it would have been incredibly stupid for an Evil person to off 2 of their own. The first one with Mandarin I could see... but 2? That would be stretching it in my opinion.

Look, we still have little to no idea who to trust. It would have been more advantageous for Evil to off one of the 12 than one of their own the other night.

I think the reason I'm still alive right now is that I'm one of the oddball 8 and don't fit into anyone's plans.

Look, I'd rather be killed now, and be proven to not be evil, than to screw up people's CoT lists.

I would think, of all the people in the game, Mandarin and I should be high on anyone's trust list. But, I will one up Mandarin, I will sacrifice myself so that you know I am telling the truth. The only problem is that I can't vouch for anyone else so my death wouldn't help you bring anyone left alive into your CoT. My death would only prove that I wasn't evil.

[Poli]

Also, he's the person I'm most "likely" to attack today.

I could easily change my mind, though.

DD

[Poli]

Wolvie,

You're in my circle. I'm not concerned about you.

DD

[Bonegavel]

(Wolverine)

Anyone vouche for DD yet?

he is starting to be in a position where he is the fox minding the hen house. He is the one saying who is or isn't evil. I'm not liking this if nobody can vouch for him.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Bonegavel

(Wolverine)

Anyone vouche for DD yet?

he is starting to be in a position where he is the fox minding the hen house. He is the one saying who is or isn't evil. I'm not liking this if nobody can vouch for him.

After last night, someone can most definitely, definitely vouch for me.

Someone "thanked" me for doing my part against evil.

DD

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Bonegavel

(Wolverine)

Anyone vouche for DD yet?

he is starting to be in a position where he is the fox minding the hen house. He is the one saying who is or isn't evil. I'm not liking this if nobody can vouch for him.

i've thought of that. i told him already that i don't trust him 100% like i trusted captain america and captain britain and gambit, but i don't have anything concrete to go on.

i guess if we wanted some sort of...proof of his goodness i think we'd have to look at spidey, who he just cleared, or at myself (though i know i'm good so that won't tell you anything). or at moon knight who he has cleared.

although that would mean he would have had to clear captain america (who was good) only to sacrifice him later to prove that, which would be some impressive foresight, and then also there's that whole issue with the doom-thing, which would mean that moon knight and dd would have to both be evil and working together to deceive us on the fact that DD found out that doom was evil and held it for a day to try to infiltrate...

just me musing out loud

[DaddyTorgo]

dola

to clarify. i don't distrust dd at all. i think it's too early for that. he hasn't been proven WRONG on anything yet. so even if he is evil, we can use him until he proves us wrong. it's not like we're down to just one evil guy left

[Poli]

I think X can confirm that someone "thanked" me as well. I didn't quote the message I got, but I paraphrased it...and I think he'd agree there's no way I typed all that out at once.

DD

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

My best guess at this point is the mathman. I went back and forth on whether to try and clear him or not yesterday.

Just my guess.

Not a bad choice as his powers indicate psychic and he has gotten no attention from the bad guys. Should be a top candidate to target as potential seer.

I also think Magneto is bad and a strong candidate to lynch

[Grammaticus]

dola,

I don't trust Spiderman.

[gi]

Prof X, thoughts on mathman? I'll start off the attack if I get your agreement.

[DaddyTorgo]

i can confirm that DD shared a great deal with me last night, and continues to do so. He was "thanked" last night by someone for his efforts on the side of good. someone who would know what side he was on without a doubt.

his responses and the things he shared with me were quite lengthy and i rate it highly unlikely that he went to the trouble to type them all up in notepad before and then break them up and send them to me on AIM

[Poli]

especially when I said WOAH, I just found something I missed earlier.



DD

[DaddyTorgo]

(X)

Captain. No one has cleared Mathman. In my discussions with Daredevil last night and this morning ((ooc) discussions that went on literally for hours) Daredevil said that he would be perfectly comfortable working down his list of "untrusted" from top to bottom. I don't remember where Mathman sits on that list. But it is true that no one has cleared him.

All-in-all, I think it's a solid choice Captain. Doesn't mean it's the right choice, but at this point I believe Daredevil did the math and we know 10 of the 12 (including those already passed on). So the odds of him being one of The 12 are certainly slim. That would just leave him being a normal hero or evil.

He is also likely I would think, to have fairly low physical health due to his stature.

All-in-all Captain, I think it is a good choice although you might wait to attack until later to see if anything else pops, since you are committed once you attack.

[DaddyTorgo]

(ooc) it would also give Mr. Weds time to respond (/ooc)

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

My best guess at this point is the mathman. I went back and forth on whether to try and clear him or not yesterday.

Just my guess.

(Mathemanic)

Nope.

I don't have any reason to think I'm one of the Twelve (I can't believe I'd still be alive at this point if I were), so you could make worse choices.

If I go down, I'll do my best to take one of my least trusted foes with me.

[Mr. Wednesday]

(Mathemanic)

I stated publicly that I was neither horseman nor Apocalypse yesterday, that that remains true today. Daredevil had ample opportunity to verify my statement, if he is capable of that.

[DaddyTorgo]

(ooc) it does say something to me though weds. that you would take 'the high road' were you to be attacked and go after one of your least-trusted instead of lashing out in retaliation.

more often then not that's a good-guy thing, although unfortunately just saying it and actually doing it are two different things. but that's a rightous thing to say at the least

(/ooc)

[Mr. Wednesday]

(Mathemanic)

Yeah, well, I have some idea who remaining members of the 12 are, and a couple of people who by their actions have earned varying degrees of trust. I can't say that my distrusted group squares with other people's, but I can assure you that I will not be going after anyone you (Professor X) have identified as one of the 12.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola, just to clarify, all I know about remaining members of the 12 are the ones that X has identified.

[DaddyTorgo]

care to share who it is you distrust mr. weds?

[Mr. Wednesday]

I don't strongly distrust anybody in particular, which is bad.

I guess I should run through the ranks of people I have a relative degree of trust in first.

Doubly vouched, including by a verified dead hero:
Captain Britain

Mostly vouched by a verified dead hero:
Professor X

Vouched by Professor X only:
Gambit

Those people are 100% off-limits barring something unusual.

Killed horsemen acting alone:
Mandarin, Wolverine

Although Moon Knight has an ongoing issue with Wolverine, I have no reason to doubt him. I think he's too low-probability to risk going after right now.

Slight trust based on own or other's actions:

• Venom - spent a special attack on Doom
• Magneto - Day 1 attack on him by Doom (not weighted very heavily as it's the sort of action the latter might have taken to ingratiate himself with us)
• Deadpool - one of the first to attack Doom, and persisted in it when that might not have been necessary, but also attacked X and has been a bit of a cipher.
• Moon Knight - came out strong against Doom.

Some concerns:
Daredevil - On the plus side, he's got the claims of Doom being evil, and abilities that don't make much sense for a bad guy. On the negative side, despite his claims to know that Doom was a bad dude relatively early on, he never did attack him (even on the day where Juggernaut perished). And the abilities were likely assigned before the horsemen were selected, there's nothing about his ability to interrogate us (even determine what's true and what's not) that necessarily makes him a good guy. I'm particularly troubled by his attack history.

No read:
Silver Surfer, Spiderman, Storm

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola, that might give you the idea that my first target would be Daredevil, which is not true. At worst, he's part of the "no read" pack.

[DaddyTorgo]

so would you say that you would look at say...storm/spidey/silver surfer as good picks?

i think of those 3 you could have most success gathering a group of people to go after storm personally. not that that means storm is evil, just that there are more questions about her and people would be more likely to vote for either storm or spidey...although silver surfer has been UTR in terms of memorable posts...

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Reading over last night again, this jumped out at me:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I should be dead with the attacks already on me. So

Attack Cannonball with all remaining energy

MODS: If I need to specify that amount let me know and I'll do the math.

Now, only four people had attacked him. Three normal attacks, one special. Magneto hadn't been attacked since day one, so I think it's safe to say he had healed completely. Why would he think that four attacks would kill him? Especially when it ends up only being 7 points of damage that came his way. Was this merely a ploy to get others to not "waste their attacks on him" since he was so convinced he was going to die? Or did he really believe that those four attacks would bring him down?

Also, in the account of the attacks, Venom is not mentioned, although he attacked Magneto first and was the only special attack. Is this significant, or just something that got missed in the write-up?

Finally, why was all hell unleashed on me? Why did Storm and SS try to give me 38 points of damage? Where they trying to protect someone? Why else go above and beyond what would have killed anyone else?

SPIDER-MAN

[Mr. Wednesday]

(ooc) You should bring the Venom discrepancy to the moderators' attention. (/ooc)

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola, JE, go check back and you'll see that Venom is clearly listed in the attacks on Magneto. It's post 3363.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

Reading over last night again, this jumped out at me:



Now, only four people had attacked him. Three normal attacks, one special. Magneto hadn't been attacked since day one, so I think it's safe to say he had healed completely. Why would he think that four attacks would kill him? Especially when it ends up only being 7 points of damage that came his way. Was this merely a ploy to get others to not "waste their attacks on him" since he was so convinced he was going to die? Or did he really believe that those four attacks would bring him down?

Also, in the account of the attacks, Venom is not mentioned, although he attacked Magneto first and was the only special attack. Is this significant, or just something that got missed in the write-up?

Finally, why was all hell unleashed on me? Why did Storm and SS try to give me 38 points of damage? Where they trying to protect someone? Why else go above and beyond what would have killed anyone else?

SPIDER-MAN

all VERY good questions Spidey. I don't have answers to any of those questions, since I can't clear any of those people, and neither can DD.

i think all of those people are decent candidates for us to test tonight, and i think it's very relevent that you point out the magneto attack on cannonball, as no one has mentioned that thus far.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Double dola, oh, I see what you're getting at. You think that maybe, since he wasn't listed in the actual writeup, we should presume that the attack had no effect.

Regardless, remember that the damage total is what was levied before defenses come into play.

[DaddyTorgo]

dola

what i mean by relevent is: cannonball was good. if you were evil and magneto was evil and that was a ploy by evil, you could have just kept quiet about it still and hope it slipped by. so bringing it into the open shows that either you are evil and magneto is good, or that you are good and magneto is evil. and since magneto blasted the hell out of one of the 12 seemingly at random (i don't recall him giving any great deal of evidence to support his attack) it lends itself more towards the idea that you are good spidey.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Double dola, oh, I see what you're getting at. You think that maybe, since he wasn't listed in the actual writeup, we should presume that the attack had no effect.

Regardless, remember that the damage total is what was levied before defenses come into play.

I think it was either a mistake in the write-up or the attack had no effect at all. But if that's the case, why wasn't it mentioned like Deadpool's attack against Doom that had no effect? I honestly don't know what to make of it.

SPIDER-MAN

[Mr. Wednesday]

(Mathemanic)

Were there any team bonuses for the attacks on Magneto? The points work out provided that everyone aside from me did a one-damage attack. I count four attacks on him in total, in order Venom (sneak), me (4 dmg I think), Mandarin, and Wolverine.

If Magneto is innocent, then he would presumably have unloaded on Cannonball because he was afraid that the attacks on him were picking up steam.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

(ooc) You should bring the Venom discrepancy to the moderators' attention. (/ooc)

When I'm doing the end-of-day writeups I do not list each and every hero/villain to launch an attack. I do try to convey enough flavor to indicate when someone has gone beyond the norm with their actions. But even that is just a guiding principle - I do not promise to do it every time out.

One thing you can count on is that I will not go out of my way to protect either side in the writeups. In some cases there is information that can be gleaned from them, especially in conjunction with the damage reports, but they should on the balance (and hopefully each one on their own) be impartial.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

(Mathemanic)

Were there any team bonuses for the attacks on Magneto? The points work out provided that everyone aside from me did a one-damage attack. I count four attacks on him in total, in order Venom (sneak), me (4 dmg I think), Mandarin, and Wolverine.

I don't think Venom's would only have been 1 point of damage. It was a special attack.

If Magneto is innocent, then he would presumably have unloaded on Cannonball because he was afraid that the attacks on him were picking up steam.

Maybe. But after he made his announcement that he was probably dead, the attention was switched to me and he wasn't attacked again. It very well could be that he's good and lied about thinking he was going to die to save himself, but that doesn't explain Storm and SS's devastating attacks against me. Were they so convinced that I was evil that I had to go no matter what? And probably forcing there to be two lynches?

SPIDER-MAN

[path12]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

although silver surfer has been UTR in terms of memorable posts...

(Silver Surfer)

That's twice in two days. Seventh now in posts, plus a long involved sequence this morning about my conviction that the CoT has been breached. Yet you continue to portray me as under the radar and quiet. Whatever. I personally always find misdirection suspicious.

I expect it from Spiderman this game, he's been downplaying his abilities consistently and today is conveniently ignoring the fact that he apparently escaped the special attack by Storm and the regular one by me without a scratch.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by path12

I expect it from Spiderman this game, he's been downplaying his abilities consistently and today is conveniently ignoring the fact that he apparently escaped the special attack by Storm and the regular one by me without a scratch.

How am I ignoring it? I explained last night about my Spidey Sense. Do you want me to go over it again?

SPIDER-MAN

[Mr. Wednesday]

(Mathemanic)

As improbable as it may seem that Venom's attack only did one damage, I believe there were no team attacks on Magneto, as the last post from hoops that I have enumerating them (two days ago) showed that only Venom (of the four attackers) was not a free agent. If there was team-based sabotage, then it was Venom sabotaging his own attack. I suppose that's not inconceivable, but I doubt we'll be able to prove it either way.

[Bonegavel]

(Wolverine)

It may be a good idea at this time to look/go after the ends of our scales.

The remaining bad guys are probably either UTR or Super Trusters right now. Attacking the ends of the list might bag us a baddy.

[Mr. Wednesday]

(Mathemanic)

My super trust list includes presumed members of the 12. The only way I'm touching any of them is if we should somehow break one of the vouches.

[DaddyTorgo]

sorry path. apparently i missed the long involved thing this morning as i was posting from my bed. literally.

look...say whatever you want, but you havn't been vouched for by anyone. and we are getting to the point that those are the people that we are looking at. i have been there, i know how that can make you angry when you're good. i've also been there as a wolf in the LoTR game. I know both sides of that.

I'm not saying you're evil path, or calling for an attack on you. Just saying that you should at least expect to be looked at. If there are things you have to say in your own defense, or you want to put together a list of why people should trust you, then okay. But until that point, you have to expect your name to be bandied about.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

How am I ignoring it? I explained last night about my Spidey Sense. Do you want me to go over it again?

SPIDER-MAN

(Silver Surfer)

I said you were misdirecting, which frankly I would probably do in the same position. You hinted regularly about your lack of strength, but took three attacks that I believe are as strong as anyone has gotten yet without any effect. So today, you focus on the fact you were attacked rather than on the fact that you emerged without a scratch from a massive special attack by Storm (mine was powered up a little, but nowhere near my capability).

As for last night, I put no stock in that at all. You knew you were gonna come under some kind of scrutiny. There was no way you were going to be making any night kills.

[DaddyTorgo]

path...any reason you feel that spidey is a better target tonight than storm?

[path12]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I'm not saying you're evil path, or calling for an attack on you. Just saying that you should at least expect to be looked at. If there are things you have to say in your own defense, or you want to put together a list of why people should trust you, then okay. But until that point, you have to expect your name to be bandied about.

(Silver Surfer)

I totally understand, Professor. But I have been mentioned from literally the first post in this thread due to the whole 'who would Apoc pick' theory. There have been four days for someone to clear me, and frankly I assumed I would have been by now. I've got no problem with the heat, that comes with the game. I just don't like feeling like I'm being misrepresented -- and as we both know, there is a certain amount of frustration that comes on midgame when you are good yet not vouched for. Sorry if I came off harsher than intended. (ooc) nothing here is personal. (/ooc)

[Mr. Wednesday]

(Mathemanic)

SS -- Spidey's power is pretty, um, powerful, but I'm going to guess that he's not quite as tough as you seem to think if we either go past it (by levying more attacks) or someone interferes with it.

[path12]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

path...any reason you feel that spidey is a better target tonight than storm?

(Silver Surfer)

I think I've made my suspicions about Spiderman quite clear. I really have no read on Storm at all. She hasn't been around much.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola, e.g., I think Magneto mentioned the idea of immobilizing him although I don't know if he is actually subject to that from Magneto since Magneto's power generally revolves around manipulating metal.

[DaddyTorgo]

i would certainly have cleared you if i could path. unfortunately i don't get to pick my targets for my visions.

on the other half of my question...any reason why you feel spidey (who at least has some vouch-ing) is a better target than storm (who has none) ?