2008 NFL Offseason Thread

[tucker rocky]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

We need an "off-season In Pictures" Flere story.

This would be great, lots of players moving around to new teams.

Yes, a special edition of "NFL Offseason in Pictures" is needed.

Come on flere, open up that paintboard and enlighten the followers.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by stevew

It's all over the net via the power of google.

I know. I just wonder if any of them had any information on how they valued future picks?

[Sidhe]

In case anyone is interested in keeping up with the Saints, they signed DE McRay from Jacksonville and CB Gay from New England today. They got MLB Vilma from New York Jets Friday night. For once, they aren't just sitting on their thumbs..

[Galaril]

The Titans and TE Alge Crumpler have agreed to a two-year deal.
"The Titans and Alge Crumpler have agreed to a two-year deal. An announcement could come as early as Monday, barring any last-minute complications. Crumpler, a four-time Pro Bowler, visited with the Titans last month and his agent has remained in contact with the team. He also visited the Buccaneers and Seahawks. Crumpler recently completed his seventh NFL season, all with the Falcons. He has 316 catches for 4,212 yards and 35 touchdowns. But he was plagued by knee problems last season, when he had 44 receptions for 444 yards and five touchdowns. He was released by the Falcons on part because he counted $5.1 million against Atlanta’s 2008 salary cap."

ESPN is reporting that it is a 2 yr deal for $5.25M with a 1M signing bonus.

[Dunleavy]

like we were talking about in the other thread none of us really know whats going on with Alge

In response to a report that tight end Alge Crumpler has agreed to terms with the Tennessee Titans, Crumpler's agent denied that a deal is done.

''Where did you see that report?" agent James Williams told TitansRadio.com. "We talked on Sunday, lets put it that way. He has not signed a contract nor agreed to anything.''

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Bears - 275 draft points gained.

Bills - around 363

The big difference in the trade is how bad Baltimore turned out to be this year. If Baltimore is even a wild card team this year then the trade is even as far as points go.

The Bears got good value out of Jones, they just wasted the value with how they used the pick. When you consider just how bad Thomas Jones was this past year, the bears got excellent value out of what they got from the Jets.

Sorry, still think it's apples and oranges with these two trades. The Bills actually added three whole new players with that deal. All the Bears did was pick a slightly better player (if Angelo had used the pick right). You ask me which way I go, it's the Bills the whole way. They made out well, while the Bears pretty much blew it.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by Galaril

The Titans and TE Alge Crumpler have agreed to a two-year deal.
"The Titans and Alge Crumpler have agreed to a two-year deal. An announcement could come as early as Monday, barring any last-minute complications. Crumpler, a four-time Pro Bowler, visited with the Titans last month and his agent has remained in contact with the team. He also visited the Buccaneers and Seahawks. Crumpler recently completed his seventh NFL season, all with the Falcons. He has 316 catches for 4,212 yards and 35 touchdowns. But he was plagued by knee problems last season, when he had 44 receptions for 444 yards and five touchdowns. He was released by the Falcons on part because he counted $5.1 million against Atlanta’s 2008 salary cap."

ESPN is reporting that it is a 2 yr deal for $5.25M with a 1M signing bonus.

Crumpler's agent denies there is any done deal.

http://www.titansradio.com/cgi-bin/b...urb=news620380

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by Logan

Just read that Moss re-signed with the Pats. 5 years, $52 million, with $25 mil guaranteed.

Where did you read this? I haven't seen this reported anywhere yet.

[Logan]

It was reported as a done deal on my fantasy football site, with the quote coming from WEEI. Obviously someone jumped the gun on it, I'll go back and edit.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

Bad weekend to be a Bengals fan, the Browns are owning us

The Bengals NEVER try to do anything in free agency, unless it's picking up an old broken-down guy for under market value. Brown has NEVER been willing to overpay to bring in an impact player, or usually even overpay to keep his own guys. He builds through the draft exclusively, but then once a guy threatens to break the bank beyond what Brown thinks he's worth, he's gone.

I mean, there's a reason we don't win... the coaches can only work with the talent they're given. And for years and years, the defensive coaches have been given almost nothing to work with.

[stevew]

Waiting to hear the numbers on this, but I'm very happy. Especially since they got it done before Rivers or Manning did new deals which would have surely artificially inflated Ben's deal.

Ben Roethlisberger has received a belated birthday present from the Pittsburgh Steelers.

A very expensive present.
FOXSports.com has learned that the Steelers and Roethlisberger agreed today on a multiyear contact extension one day after the quarterback's 26th birthday.

An official announcement is expected this afternoon.

While details aren't yet available, Roethlisberger assuredly landed a lucrative deal that should place him among the NFL's highest-paid quarterbacks.

Roethlisberger had outplayed the rookie contract he signed as a 2004 first-round draft pick, leading Pittsburgh to a Super Bowl XL victory in just his second NFL season and an AFC North title in 2007.

Last year, Roethlisberger rebounded from a sub-par 2006 campaign by throwing for 32 touchdowns and 11 interceptions. He excelled despite being sacked 47 times, the NFL's second-highest total behind Detroit's Jon Kitna (51).

Roethlisberger had two years remaining on his rookie contract. He was set to earn $1.4 million in base salary in 2008.

The Roethlisberger contract will probably be the biggest deal Pittsburgh makes this off-season. The Steelers are not big spenders in free agency, preferring to build their team through the draft.

[JAG]

That contract (A source with knowledge of the new contract to be signed by Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger tells us that Roethlisberger will receive a practical guarantee of $38.7 million) makes me VERY happy that Dallas locked up Romo last season.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Sorry, still think it's apples and oranges with these two trades. The Bills actually added three whole new players with that deal. All the Bears did was pick a slightly better player (if Angelo had used the pick right). You ask me which way I go, it's the Bills the whole way. They made out well, while the Bears pretty much blew it.

The difference in value between a high 2nd round pick and any 3rd round pick is huge. You're undervaluing the difference in picks. In the early 2nd round the chances of you landing a guy that you have labeled as a 1st round talent are very high and you're still aiming to land an immediate starter in most cases. The 3rd round is where you start taking backups and developmental players. Thats why the value in picks on the draft charts drop off significantly in the early-mid 2nd round.

[EventHorizon]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Sorry, still think it's apples and oranges with these two trades. The Bills actually added three whole new players with that deal. All the Bears did was pick a slightly better player (if Angelo had used the pick right). You ask me which way I go, it's the Bills the whole way. They made out well, while the Bears pretty much blew it.

In my humble opinion, the draft has so many variables and is such a dynamic process that in order to simplify it to a point that you can make base line evaluations on proposed trades involving picks you need to be able to reference a chart such as the one linked earlier. Remember, this isnt about the players who were drafted with the picks but rather the overall value of the draft picks themselves. I think that in order for you to see the point that Atocep is trying to make you need to remove the players drafted with said draft picks and look simply at the value of the draft pick position itself.

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Thats why the value in picks on the draft charts drop off significantly in the early-mid 2nd round.

The draft chart was designed in the 70s, and doesn't accurately reflect value of picks. Some teams use it, but most dont at this point. The salary cap changes everything, and high second round picks are EXTREMELY valueable, because of the high amount of talent left, and the extremely low cap impact.

[EventHorizon]

Originally Posted by Synovia

The draft chart was designed in the 70s, and doesn't accurately reflect value of picks. Some teams use it, but most dont at this point. The salary cap changes everything, and high second round picks are EXTREMELY valueable, because of the high amount of talent left, and the extremely low cap impact.

I woulld like to request evidence to support your theory. Its not that I do or don't believe you, I would simply like to see facts and figures that solidify your statement.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Synovia

The draft chart was designed in the 70s, and doesn't accurately reflect value of picks. Some teams use it, but most dont at this point. The salary cap changes everything, and high second round picks are EXTREMELY valueable, because of the high amount of talent left, and the extremely low cap impact.

The chart used in its current form was created by Jimmy Johnson in '89 and just about every team still uses it with their own tweaks and variations on it. They spent some time discussing it during last year's draft because the increasing cap hits on top 10 picks has caused teams to make some serious tweaks to their value.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The chart used in its current form was created by Jimmy Johnson in '89 and just about every team still uses it with their own tweaks and variations on it.

Not to nitpick, but it bugs me when I see the details referenced wrongly. Jimmy Johnson did not invent the chart but he was the first to make use of it.

Key quotes from below article:

"Prior to the 1991 draft, the Cowboys wanted to figure out a way to value draft picks and how to trade them because they had so many picks. That's when Mike McCoy, a former minority owner of the team, went to work."

"For two days, McCoy analyzed trades from the previous four years and assigned a point value to each pick. And The Chart was born."

Dallas started it, now giving point value to draft picks part of trade

11:05 PM CDT on Thursday, April 22, 2004

BY TODD ARCHER / The Dallas Morning News

IRVING - If the Cowboys make a trade in this weekend's NFL draft, you can thank The Chart.

The Chart, which has become NFL legend, accounts for a way of putting point values on picks 1 (3,000 points) through 255 (0.45). If a team wants to make a trade, then the points have to match up or come close.

Prior to the 1991 draft, the Cowboys wanted to figure out a way to value draft picks and how to trade them because they had so many picks. That's when Mike McCoy, a former minority owner of the team, went to work.

"He's one of the brightest minds I've been around," Cowboys owner and general manager Jerry Jones said.

For two days, McCoy analyzed trades from the previous four years and assigned a point value to each pick. And The Chart was born.

"The more I played with it, the more obvious it became that there was a real, definite trend," McCoy said. "You were able to plot on a graph that showed historically that trades valued draft picks in certain ways. And from that graph, I made up a chart that assigned a numerical value to every single draft pick from the first in the first round to the last in the last round."

The confluence of Jones' business mind with Jimmy Johnson's knowledge of the college talent at that time helped produce five Pro Bowl players for the Cowboys in the next four drafts and 15 starters. Like in the business world, Jones took chances that paid off.

"Some people just can't work without knowing what the results will be at the end of the week," Jones said. "Others do better when they don't know what the results will be."

Said McCoy, "He [Jones] traded every day for a living, and this is what he liked to do, and he was trying to figure out how to get an advantage."

The Cowboys' approach to the draft was to get as many picks as possible, which raised the likelihood of finding more successful players. In 1991, they had 17 picks and 10 made the opening day roster. They were able to overcome the misses (guard James Richards in the third round, quarterback Bill Musgrave in the fourth) with hits on Erik Williams (third round), Leon Lett (seventh round) and Larry Brown (12th round).

Once a guarded secret, The Chart became more widely known as people started to leave the Cowboys organization because of the Super Bowl successes in the 1990s. Dave Wannstedt and Norv Turner took The Chart with them to Chicago and Washington. Scouts went to other teams, taking The Chart with them.

Soon, just about everybody had a copy of it, but Jones figures the Cowboys had a five-year advantage on most teams. Through the years, The Chart has been tweaked, especially when the draft went from 12 rounds to eight in 1993 and then to seven rounds in 1994.

"I think it's made it a little easier to trade now because people weren't worried about getting out-traded," McCoy said.

The Chart is a guide only. Teams will sometimes overpay to get a player they covet. Jones admits to getting burned in 1996. That year the Cowboys had the 30th pick worth 620 points, according to the current value chart. The Cowboys gave up that choice and picked up Washington's second- (37th overall) and third-round (67th) picks, which totaled 785 points. But the Cowboys didn't get the player they wanted.

The Cowboys had their eye on two defensive ends - Texas' Tony Brackens and McNeese State's Kavika Pittman. The Cowboys coveted Brackens, but he was drafted by Jacksonville, leaving the Cowboys with Pittman at No. 37.

"We got a little too cute there," Jones said.

But Jones also points to the selection of cornerback Kevin Smith, who was taken 17th overall in 1992. The Cowboys originally had the 13th pick in the first round but traded down to No. 19 before moving back up to No. 17 to take Smith. Through the flurry of the trades with Atlanta and New England, the Cowboys picked up a second-round pick that turned into safety Darren Woodson.

Two years ago, the Cowboys were able to get the player they wanted (Roy Williams) after trading from the fifth spot to eighth with Kansas City, while picking up the Chiefs' third-rounder. They used that pick to take cornerback Derek Ross, who intercepted five passes as a rookie but was cut in 2003 after a fallout with Bill Parcells.

Getting the third-round pick "was gravy," Jones said.

As well known as The Chart has become, McCoy was asked by a team about it this year.

"It's taken on a life of its own," Jones said. "The Chart has been the standard that trades are made by."

Collins signs tender offer: Cowboys tackle Javiar Collins signed his restricted free-agent tender offer worth $628,000 on Thursday. The only remaining restricted free agent the Cowboys need to sign is running back Troy Hambrick.

E-mail [email protected]

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JAG

Not to nitpick, but it bugs me when I see the details referenced wrongly. Jimmy Johnson did not invent the chart but he was the first to make use of it.

Key quotes from below article:

"Prior to the 1991 draft, the Cowboys wanted to figure out a way to value draft picks and how to trade them because they had so many picks. That's when Mike McCoy, a former minority owner of the team, went to work."

"For two days, McCoy analyzed trades from the previous four years and assigned a point value to each pick. And The Chart was born."

I knew it didn't date back to the '70s, but the articles I've read always referenced '89. Although by saying created by Jimmy Johnson I was referencing him and his coaching staff (I know Jimmy isn't that smart. ). I had no idea an owner came up with the chart.

Nice to read the real story behind it. Thanks.

[twothree]

Originally Posted by stevew

Waiting to hear the numbers on this, but I'm very happy. Especially since they got it done before Rivers or Manning did new deals which would have surely artificially inflated Ben's deal.

$102 million over 8 years.... wow.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

The Bengals NEVER try to do anything in free agency, unless it's picking up an old broken-down guy for under market value. Brown has NEVER been willing to overpay to bring in an impact player, or usually even overpay to keep his own guys. He builds through the draft exclusively, but then once a guy threatens to break the bank beyond what Brown thinks he's worth, he's gone.

I mean, there's a reason we don't win... the coaches can only work with the talent they're given. And for years and years, the defensive coaches have been given almost nothing to work with.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3274297

The New York Jets and Cincinnati Bengals have agreed to terms on a trade that would send defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson to the Bengals in exchange for Cincinnati's fourth- and fifth-round picks (Nos. 114 and 151) in the upcoming draft, according to league sources.

Nothing official yet but......

[watravaler]

As a Bears fan, I'm overjoyed with the bargain Angelo conned Briggs into accepting...on the other hand, I'm going to miss Berrian. He should be a monster on the turf, assuming the Queens can find a QB who can find him deep, as he should be open quite a bit...

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by JAG

That contract (A source with knowledge of the new contract to be signed by Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger tells us that Roethlisberger will receive a practical guarantee of $38.7 million) makes me VERY happy that Dallas locked up Romo last season.

Romo shouldn't have anywhere near the money Ben has, Ben has won in the playoffs.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3274297

Nothing official yet but......

To be fair, this hardly counts as signing a free agent. Something they could still do, but also something I would be shocked by.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

To be fair, this hardly counts as signing a free agent. Something they could still do, but also something I would be shocked by.

It had more to do with Robertson's possible addition to the talent that those defensive coaches have to work with.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

It had more to do with Robertson's possible addition to the talent that those defensive coaches have to work with.

One could make an argument against Robertson's "talent" here, but for now I'll concede the point that they do seem to be attempting to improve, but again by doing it as cheaply as possible.

[SirFozzie]

Now the rumor RE:Moss by ESPN is a three year deal

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by EventHorizon

I woulld like to request evidence to support your theory. Its not that I do or don't believe you, I would simply like to see facts and figures that solidify your statement.

Trying to find the article. Its a footballoutsiders article doing regressions on picks vs salary cap, etc, using games started, pro bowls, DVOA, and a whole bunch of other methods of measuring player value.

In almost all of them, picks 20-40 help the team the most, because they have almost no cap impact, and usually end up being good starters. Your chances of getting a stud in the top 20 aren't really any higher than in the bottom of the round, the risks are just higher if you don't.


See 2 years ago, Reggie Bush at 50M, vs Joseph Addai/Lawrence Maroney at <$10M each.


The only case where this really doesn't happen is QB, because what he costs is totally irrelevant, if you hit, hes gonna wan't more money, if he busts, you're gonna need to cut him and your screwed for a couple years anyways.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Jets sign DE Calvin Pace and OL Damien Woody.

[Synovia]

Massey & Thaler, “The Loser’s Curse”

[st.cronin]

In a move that makes little sense to me for either team, Bears trade Griese to the Bucs.

[kurtism]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

In a move that makes little sense to me for either team, Bears trade Griese to the Bucs.

Seems to make excellent sense for the Bears - I'd guess they exhausted their patience for him this season, and have plenty of backup QB talent around with Orton and Grossman. As for the Bucs, chalk it up to Chuckie's desire to have 206 QBs under contract every offseason...

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

One could make an argument against Robertson's "talent" here, but for now I'll concede the point that they do seem to be attempting to improve, but again by doing it as cheaply as possible.

I actually think Cinci gets a better than great bargain here...and IMHO...a better overall 4-3 DT in Robertson. Coming out of college, he was a high motor, Warren Sapp-type of DT. At only 26...this guy has quite few years ahead of himself that I think will be very productive. But he's a complete waste in a 3-4...just wastes his penetration skills from the 3 technique.

Despite Rogers having such great talent...I dont think he plays hard most/every play and at this stage of his career he'll only be declining in ability, whereas Robertson will be steadily improving for a few more years...given the right system for him.

[Dunleavy]

Originally Posted by watravaler

As a Bears fan, I'm overjoyed with the bargain Angelo conned Briggs into accepting...on the other hand, I'm going to miss Berrian. He should be a monster on the turf, assuming the Queens can find a QB who can find him deep, as he should be open quite a bit...

Briggs didnt get conned, there just wasnt a market out there for him (not sure why as there was a market for everyone else, guess thats the life of a WLB). Washington was the only other team interested

the Griese deal makes sense for the Bears b/c Orton needs to spread his wings a bit more, i doubt that pick they got is worth anything

what is going on with the jets? they are spending some serious bank

[Galaxy]

I guess the Bears are expecting a visit from Cardinals receiver Bryant Johnson.

[sabotai]

The Giants signed Safety Sammy Knight (from Jacksonville). 3 years, $5.15 million. I really like Wilson's potential, but with Knight we get another good veteran in the secondary (and at a much lower price). I think Knight will do well in the Giants' system.

[DeToxRox]

Jets fans, welcome to the salary cap hell a regime that won't be in power when the time comes has created.

They're not going to be a playoff team next year, and then Mangini is out the door, and someone else has to clean this up. I mean Damian Woody, really?

[JPhillips]

Dewayne Robertson stays in NY for now. Contract negotiations broke down and the deal is off. Maybe Cincy can land him when he's cut this summer.

Antwan Odom signed with Cincy at @30 mil with 11 mil guaranteed over five years.

[DeToxRox]

PING: Eagle Fans

I read somewhere a Philly radio station is saying Philly is offering Lito + their first for Roy Williams. Can you help me out here?

[Logan]

That rumor has been making the rounds for about a week.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Logan

That rumor has been making the rounds for about a week.

Interesting. I'd heard speculation but this is the first time I've heard specifics. That's a deal you do in a heartbeat.

[Logan]

Actually, I thought you said "Lito and a pick," not a first. I'm pretty sure I've seen it as a 2nd or a 3rd. I'll take a look around and see what was talked about.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by sabotai

The Giants signed Safety Sammy Knight (from Jacksonville). 3 years, $5.15 million. I really like Wilson's potential, but with Knight we get another good veteran in the secondary (and at a much lower price). I think Knight will do well in the Giants' system.

I'm good with that. I liked Gibril too...but not for what the Raiders were throwing at him. He was a bit undersized for a SS(although he's very physical in run support), and average in coverage(although improving).

Sammy Knight should do well...and at a cap cost we can live with.

On a side note...I am dissappointed we lost Kawika Mitchell. I really liked the physical presence he brought to the D...something I thought we had been lacking for a few years.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Crumpler's agent denies there is any done deal.

http://www.titansradio.com/cgi-bin/b...urb=news620380

Crumpler's agent is a fucking idiot apparently. No wonder the Titans stole him for chump change. Deal now done.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h...0xdVAD8V5VGG01

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Crumpler's agent is a fucking idiot apparently. No wonder the Titans stole him for chump change. Deal now done.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h...0xdVAD8V5VGG01

Actually, what I was listening to today is that the reason the Titans got him so cheap is because he was getting crap for offers and many teams feel the Falcons were not crazy for cutting him.

[Dr. Sak]

According to the Boston Herald, the Eagles actually offered Randy Moss more money than New England did, but Moss did not want to leave the Patriots.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by bsak16

According to the Boston Herald, the Eagles actually offered Randy Moss more money than New England did, but Moss did not want to leave the Patriots.

what a guy

[Kodos]

Too bad a certain cornerback wasn't such a "great guy".

[johnnyshaka]

Duckett to the Seahawks for 5 years per rotoworld.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Good deal for TJ. I liked him this year with the Lions. He ran pretty well when given the chance.

I really don't know what the Lions are planning on doing. I guess Julius Jones was in town meeting with the Lions. I can't see him being much an upgrade over Kevin Jones (other than Kevin Jones has suffered a number of serious injuries).