July console sales numbers......

[markprior22]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Hardball was one of my favorite games on the Commodore 64, even though the attributes of the players were set by where they were in the batting order. The leadoff hitter for the All-Stars, no matter who you put there, would always ALWAYS 100% of the time be able to steal second base. It was impossible for the #8 hitter on the Champs to hit a home run. The #2 hitter for the Champs could steal second base most of the time, but not always. When I played as the Champs, I would put pitcher Tommy Euler in the cleanup spot just because I wanted to see a pitcher hit a home run. The cleanup hitters on both teams were the best at home runs.

What's amazing is that I recognized these things back then, and I was only 8 years old. Even more amazing is that I still played the hell out of the game. Can anyone imagine a baseball game coming out in the past 10 or 15 years that was designed that way? It would be a joke.

Uh, yeah, I'm just going off on a Commodore 64 tangent here.

I haven't thought about Tommy Euler in 20 yrs. That was a fun game.

[stevew]

That 50 dollar X360 price drop is confirmed in multiple ads now. Unsure whether it is all the sku's, or just the pro sku.

[SackAttack]

Best Buy no longer stocks the Core. I wonder how long before other retailers follow suit.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

They're so cute when they're naive.

Who is naive? Me? The ones trying to buy one?

Look, lots of people said they were holding on to their cash until they could find an Elite. I pointed out that I've seen 5 this weekend. One way or another, they seem to be available for people to buy today when they weren't earlier this week. Just search on "Elite" in this very thread to see why I posted what I posted.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Who is naive? Me? The ones trying to buy one?

Look, lots of people said they were holding on to their cash until they could find an Elite. I pointed out that I've seen 5 this weekend. One way or another, they seem to be available for people to buy today when they weren't earlier this week. Just search on "Elite" in this very thread to see why I posted what I posted.

gstel, you're not naive for wanting one.

The naive comment was directed at the hopefulness of the shortage being over. I really don't believe it is, or there would have been significantly greater quantities at some point - any point - in the last four months.

Nothing wrong at all with wanting to get an Elite - I'd be in the same boat if I actually had an HDTV.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Nothing wrong at all with wanting to get an Elite - I'd be in the same boat if I actually had an HDTV.

How big a difference does the Elite's HD make as compared to the Premium?

When you could find an Elite, everyone raved about the HDMI. Now that they're gone, everyone says it was no big deal and you couldn't really tell the difference anyways. Which is it?

[SackAttack]

Maple, there's only maybe a half-dozen to ten games that actually do 1080p. So in a way, they're both right.

[Daimyo]

The other advantage with HDMI is you only need a single cable connection for sound and audio. How big of an advantage that is really depends on your setup and cable tolerance.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Rockstar announces exclusive game headed to the PS3. It'll be interesting to see if they stick to the 'sandbox' game type like GTA IV or move to a different genre of game.........

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2007/...ve-to-the-ps3/

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

How big a difference does the Elite's HD make as compared to the Premium?

When you could find an Elite, everyone raved about the HDMI. Now that they're gone, everyone says it was no big deal and you couldn't really tell the difference anyways. Which is it?

I use the HDMI cable for my PS3. Honestly, there's not much difference. If I was getting a 360, I wouldn't base my purchase on whether it had a HDMI output. I'm sure there are a few tech guys who would lambast that opinion, but most people won't notice a major difference.

[Richard Weed]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I use the HDMI cable for my PS3. Honestly, there's not much difference. If I was getting a 360, I wouldn't base my purchase on whether it had a HDMI output. I'm sure there are a few tech guys who would lambast that opinion, but most people won't notice a major difference.

Yeah. I see no difference on a 55" TV between S-Video or Component. Maybe there's a difference when you go Hi-Def, but I doubt it.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Richard Weed

Yeah. I see no difference on a 55" TV between S-Video or Component. Maybe there's a difference when you go Hi-Def, but I doubt it.

There's a big difference when you go to HD, but between the composite and the HDMI, there's not much difference.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Multiple sites are reporting that Best Buy is cutting the Core 360 from the stock list. It appears that the price cut will apply to only the Premium and the Elite and the Core will no longer be produced. So, much like the PS3 price drop, the lowest price system will be liquidated and not restocked. It's likely to be a quick sale as there are not a lot of Core systems produced. Most of them are Premium systems in surplus stock.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/07/30/be...360-core-model

[Eaglesfan27]

Unlike the PS3, it doesn't appear to be a temporary price drop. Good move by Microsoft to put a bit more distance in price between the various SKU's and the PS3's SKU's, although I still think they should have gone for a hundred dollar drop.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

gstel, you're not naive for wanting one.

The naive comment was directed at the hopefulness of the shortage being over. I really don't believe it is, or there would have been significantly greater quantities at some point - any point - in the last four months.

Nothing wrong at all with wanting to get an Elite - I'd be in the same boat if I actually had an HDTV.

My bad for using the word "shortages" then (which is what I meant by "Me"; I've already got a premium and have no interest in an Elite). All I meant by shortages being over was no one could find one a week ago, and now I'm seeing them all over the place. Whether the shortage was intentional or not, I don't know, I just know that now I'm seeing them. Those two in Target on Saturday were still there this evening. Maybe everyone is just waiting for the price drop and they'll disappear then.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Unlike the PS3, it doesn't appear to be a temporary price drop. Good move by Microsoft to put a bit more distance in price between the various SKU's and the PS3's SKU's, although I still think they should have gone for a hundred dollar drop.

Not understanding why the PS3 drop is temporary. It's all but a given that the 80 GB machine will drop to $499 once the 60 GB machines are out, which likely will be in the November/December timeframe. The only question is whether Sony will bring in a cheaper alternative at $399 when that occurs.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Not understanding why the PS3 drop is temporary. It's all but a given that the 80 GB machine will drop to $499 once the 60 GB machines are out, which likely will be in the November/December timeframe. The only question is whether Sony will bring in a cheaper alternative at $399 when that occurs.

Why is that "all but a given?" So Sony can piss off people who just brought an inferior machine (the 60GB) at 499. I know you assume that a price drop will occur on the 80 GB model, but with Sony recently stating their goal is to break even financially this year, that seems like far from a certainty. Your guess certainly doesn't equal fact.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Why is that "all but a given?" So Sony can piss off people who just brought an inferior machine (the 60GB) at 499. I know you assume that a price drop will occur on the 80 GB model, but with Sony recently stating their goal is to break even financially this year, that seems like far from a certainty. Your guess certainly doesn't equal fact.

Their goal is to sell 10 million units in the next 9 months worldwide. That isn't going to happen under any circumstances if they leave the 80 GB unit at $599 after the 60 GB units are exhausted. Furthermore, any temporary price cut like the one you think will occur would kill any momentum that the PS3. It's simply not going to happen. They can't put the 80 GB at a lower price than $599 right now because no one would buy the 60 GB machine if they did that. In the meanwhile, they can take a MUCH smaller loss on the 80 GB machine while selling it at $599.

I said a price cut would have to come this summer. I was right about that. I'm positive that there is 0% chance that the 80 GB machine remains at $599 and creates a 'temporary price cut'. There's no economic circumstance imaginable where that's a situation that would end well for Sony and the PS3.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Hmmmm........sounds like my PS3 (along with every other one) will end up being confiscated and destroyed.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6175851.html

FWIW......it looks like they could sue Intel and Microsoft under the same premise, but I honestly don't think this lawsuit has much merit. The patent being cited runs out in less than a year. Looks like a money grab more than anything else.

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Why is that "all but a given?" So Sony can piss off people who just brought an inferior machine (the 60GB) at 499. I know you assume that a price drop will occur on the 80 GB model, but with Sony recently stating their goal is to break even financially this year, that seems like far from a certainty. Your guess certainly doesn't equal fact.

It seems far more likely to me that they will eventually reduce the price of the 80gb model rather than create a new budget model. After all, an 80gb hard drive will cost almost the same as a 60gb drive (or a 40gb drive)

If the cell processor and the BluRay drive are the expensive bits of hardware, stripping out backward compatibility and wifi is not going to make a significant saving.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Their goal is to sell 10 million units in the next 9 months worldwide. That isn't going to happen under any circumstances if they leave the 80 GB unit at $599 after the 60 GB units are exhausted. Furthermore, any temporary price cut like the one you think will occur would kill any momentum that the PS3. It's simply not going to happen. They can't put the 80 GB at a lower price than $599 right now because no one would buy the 60 GB machine if they did that. In the meanwhile, they can take a MUCH smaller loss on the 80 GB machine while selling it at $599.

I said a price cut would have to come this summer. I was right about that. I'm positive that there is 0% chance that the 80 GB machine remains at $599 and creates a 'temporary price cut'. There's no economic circumstance imaginable where that's a situation that would end well for Sony and the PS3.

Sony has made plenty of stupid moves this release cycle. I wouldn't put anything past them now, including keeping the 80GB unit at 599 even after the 60 GB units are gone (which I think still won't happen until sometime next year.) I just disagree with your opinions continuing to be asserted as if they were fact. You've been wrong on quite a few of your guesses as well.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Sony has made plenty of stupid moves this release cycle. I wouldn't put anything past them now, including keeping the 80GB unit at 599 even after the 60 GB units are gone (which I think still won't happen until sometime next year.) I just disagree with your opinions continuing to be asserted as if they were fact. You've been wrong on quite a few of your guesses as well.

I totally disagree that there's any chance the 80 GB machine remains at $599. I'm actually a bit surprised that you think there's any chance that will actually remain status quo. From an economic standpoint, it makes no sense. I'd fall over in shock if the 80 GB machine was priced any higher than $499 by December 31st of this year.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I totally disagree that there's any chance the 80 GB machine remains at $599. I'm actually a bit surprised that you think there's any chance that will actually remain status quo. From an economic standpoint, it makes no sense. I'd fall over in shock if the 80 GB machine was priced any higher than $499 by December 31st of this year.

A price drop near the end of the year, and after Christmas, would be pretty useless for this year I think. If they're going to drop the price, you have to do it before November I think.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

A price drop near the end of the year, and after Christmas, would be pretty useless for this year I think. If they're going to drop the price, you have to do it before November I think.

Totally agree. Price needs to drop a week before Thanksgiving at the very latest. I only made the comment regarding end of year in regards to EF27's comment that the 60 GB machine supply wouldn't be exhausted until next year, therefore, the price wouldn't come down until then. I think that the 60 GB machine supply will be moved for the most part before year end. Also, from a supply curve perspective, Sony can't wait until that 60 GB machine is in short supply to drop the 80 GB machine's price. That's why the Thanksgiving timeframe appears to be a likely time for price movement.

[Kodos]

So basically, the 80 GB has 20 more GBS, no WiFi, and no backward compatibility versus the 60 GB, right? Those are the main differences?

[Bee]

I think it comes with a game too.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Kodos

So basically, the 80 GB has 20 more GBS, no WiFi, and no backward compatibility versus the 60 GB, right? Those are the main differences?

It has wifi, but it doesn't have the Emotion Engine chip to play ps2 games with. Basically the games are emulated on the 80gb PS3.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Kodos

So basically, the 80 GB has 20 more GBS, no WiFi, and no backward compatibility versus the 60 GB, right? Those are the main differences?

It has both WiFi and backwards compatibility. Only difference are the 20 GB in hard drive and the 80 GB machine uses software emulation for backward compatibility rather than the Emotion Engine chip. Motorstorm also comes as a pack-in game.

[Kodos]

I meant emulation versus having the chip. I prefer having the actual chip.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I meant emulation versus having the chip. I prefer having the actual chip.

I do too, since there is a fairly extensive list of games that don't work at all or have significant problems with the emulation. However, the chip isn't a big enough selling point for me to buy before a price drop or 3.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I do too, since there is a fairly extensive list of games that don't work at all or have significant problems with the emulation. However, the chip isn't a big enough selling point for me to buy before a price drop or 3.

It should be noted that the compatibility percentage for PS1 and PS2 games with emulation still runs just under 90%. That's an awful lot of games that work with the emulation. Also, there is supposed to be an update coming in the next major firmware release later this fall (2.0) to reduce the number of games that don't work with the software emulation.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

It should be noted that the compatibility percentage for PS1 and PS2 games with emulation still runs just under 90%. That's an awful lot of games that work with the emulation. Also, there is supposed to be an update coming in the next major firmware release later this fall (2.0) to reduce the number of games that don't work with the software emulation.

How many of that percentage run without any issues? Last time I looked at the list, there were "minor issues" with a huge number of the games.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

How many of that percentage run without any issues? Last time I looked at the list, there were "minor issues" with a huge number of the games.

Yeah, I don't know the exact numbers on the 'minor issue' list that you mention. I tried to search it, but came up with dates articles from last year, so I'm not certain where an updated list is located. The percentage that I mention does include those games which have some minor issues.

Honestly, if the backwards compatibility means that much to you, you should likely get the 60 GB machine. I wouldn't be surprised to see 60 GB used machines actually have a somewhat high price for a used console in the coming years just because the Emotion chip is in them. They'll definitely be cheaper than now, but they'll likely be pretty scarce. The other obvious alternative is to keep your PS2 and then you don't have to worry about the compatibility. They're not worth much on trade in anyway.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

For those that are worried about buying the defective 360's if a price drop does occur, it looks like buying an Elite console may be your best bet. Recently manufactured Elite units finally have an additional heat sink to try to curtail the 'red ring of death' problem caused by excessive heat.

Obviously, it's not a guarantee that you won't have a problem, but it's a step in the right direction. Surprised that MS isn't pointing out to consumers that this has been added to the systems to slow the negative PR.

http://loot-ninja.com/2007/07/31/new...ded-heat-sink/

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Looks like multiple disc games are going to become more standard on the 360's. Yet another developer has run into space problems due to the DVD format that will limit game features. This time it's the developers of Project Gotham Racing 4.......

http://loot-ninja.com/2007/07/30/pgr...r-same-tracks/

[Bee]

How many multiple disc games are there for the 360?

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Bee

How many multiple disc games are there for the 360?

0 right now.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I totally disagree that there's any chance the 80 GB machine remains at $599. I'm actually a bit surprised that you think there's any chance that will actually remain status quo. From an economic standpoint, it makes no sense. I'd fall over in shock if the 80 GB machine was priced any higher than $499 by December 31st of this year.

But didn't you post an article where Sony claimed that the drop in price of components would finally allow them to break even? Sony has publically stated they may finally break even, and you continue to use this as evidence they'll drop the price, despite their focus on breaking even.

You may end up correct, but there is evidence they won't cut.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

0 right now.

Technically correct, but Blue Dragon already has 3 DVD's in Japan and other developers have expressed concern about disc size. The PGR4 team could obviously use an extra disc, but they're trying to hold to the one disc setup. It's unfortunate because the consumers aren't getting all the features that the developers have to offer because of the disc size issues. I'm not sure what the hang-up in perception is about keeping a game to one disc. If I was a 360 owner, I would prefer they add the extra disc and give me the full feature set. I'd get over the fact that I would have to switch a disc here and there. Video gamers could lose 10 pounds if they'd have to get off their duff and change a disc every once in awhile.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

But didn't you post an article where Sony claimed that the drop in price of components would finally allow them to break even? Sony has publically stated they may finally break even, and you continue to use this as evidence they'll drop the price, despite their focus on breaking even.

You may end up correct, but there is evidence they won't cut.

I did. That's the tough decision that they're going to have around Thanksgiving. Do we want to keep moving towards break-even units by March or do we need to spur further growth of the console base by making another price cut. This interview with the Eidos CEO addresses this topic. He says that the PS3 would be a great value at a mass market price point if they dropped the price to $399. I tend to agree with him.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=27195

[Kodos]

If they did a trade-in of the PS2 for a 60 GB PS3 at $399, I'd probably do that.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Video gamers could lose 10 pounds if they'd have to get off their duff and change a disc every once in awhile.

Or you can solve this problem by playing the Wii.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Or you can solve this problem by playing the Wii.

Real gamers are proud of the extra 10 pounds.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Real gamers are proud of the extra 10 pounds.

^^^^fatty!!!!^^^^

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Or you can solve this problem by playing the Wii.

Yep, the Wii does not have those issues. My problem is that I break a sweat playing Wii Tennis.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Exhibitor list for the Tokyo Game Show released.........

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/809/809460p1.html

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I totally disagree that there's any chance the 80 GB machine remains at $599. I'm actually a bit surprised that you think there's any chance that will actually remain status quo. From an economic standpoint, it makes no sense. I'd fall over in shock if the 80 GB machine was priced any higher than $499 by December 31st of this year.

It didn't make economic sense to price these machines at $600+ in the first place, but they did it anyways.

Your prime mistake here is assuming that Sony will use logic and good business sense all of a sudden.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by wade moore

It didn't make economic sense to price these machines at $600+ in the first place, but they did it anyways.

Your prime mistake here is assuming that Sony will use logic and good business sense all of a sudden.

They've done what they needed to do as of late. Their only mistake was letting the SCEE head spill the beans a bit too soon. I can't find much fault with what they've done over the past couple of months. Dropped the price, got units moving, and produced a new unit that will help them quite a bit with per-unit costs. If they can follow it up with a price cut before Thanksgiving, the PS3 will sell quite a few units. We'll have to see if they continue to make positive steps towards becoming a part of this race again.

[Eaglesfan27]

According to a Circuit City flier, the 360 Core unit will drop 20 dollars in price to 279.99, the premium will drop 50 dollars to 349 and come with the table tennis game, and the Elite will drop 30 dollars to 449 starting next week.

http://forums.operationsports.com/vB...=214263&page=4

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

According to a Circuit City flier, the 360 Core unit will drop 20 dollars in price to 279.99, the premium will drop 50 dollars to 349 and come with the table tennis game, and the Elite will drop 30 dollars to 449 starting next week.

http://forums.operationsports.com/vB...=214263&page=4

Hmmmm......seems like a drop of $50 for Core and Premium and $80 for the Elite would have put them in a much better position. Have to see what that does to the sales numbers.