Chris Benoit found dead....

[Eaglesfan27]

I'd disagree with that last sentence. Back when I was working the ER, I saw plenty of patients with acute psychosis, mania, and homicial intent who had those symptoms as the direct result of steroids. Some types of Steroids can lead to severe psychiatric symptoms and they certainly are a possible cause of this tragedy.

[molson]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

.....What's the big deal? So what if you don't get it, nobody "gets everything" they encounter from others, why the hell even critique it?

I'm not a big music guy, and every once and a while there's a thread started about some legendary song writer or something who died. I don't go in there and, "who's this guy and why the hell do you care so much", because that's a jerkoff move. With wrestling though, that stuff is kind of expected.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I'd disagree with that last sentence. Back when I was working the ER, I saw plenty of patients with acute psychosis, mania, and homicial intent who had those symptoms as the direct result of steroids. Some types of Steroids can lead to severe psychiatric symptoms and they certainly are a possible cause of this tragedy.

I stand corrected. But can steroids cause a sudden psychosis? I mean, he was a regular employee as of a day before this, wrestling several matches last week (including his final TV match last Tuesday). And what happened, apparently, wasn't a moment of rage, but a murder, 24 hours or so, and then another murder.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by molson

I stand corrected. But can steroids cause a sudden psychosis? I mean, he was a regular employee as of a day before this, wrestling several matches last week (including his final TV match last Tuesday). And that what happened, apparently, wasn't a moment of rage, but a murder, 24 hours or so, and then another murder.

I have a family member who takes steroids for medical reasons. I can assure you that "roid rage" can result in amazing things that occur much like switching on a light switch. They can go from calm to enraged in no time. It's an amazing and frightening thing to see. It's even more frightening to think about if/when it would occur in a wrestler who could literally kill a person with their own hands.

And yes, it can happen over time as well. It isn't always just a moment.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I think it would be shocking and surprising no matter who it was. The difference is, if this happened to a family in your town that nobody but you knew of, you would still be shocked and saddened, but may not choose to post it here because other posters don't share the "knowledge" of that person with you.

While this is very tragic to me, it doesn't affect me like it would if it was someone I knew personally. For me it is more the shock factor of someone so well known involved in something this terrible. And with him being so well known different people have different reactions.....What's the big deal? So what if you don't get it, nobody "gets everything" they encounter from others, why the hell even critique it?

there's a lot going on in the world, in case you didn't know, that would sicken you if you ever took the time to step out of your cacoon. i can't tell people how to feel about things, but it certainly sounds like some people here are punching walls, looking up to the sky and screaming "whyyyyy Chris? whyyyyyy?".

this is like hearing 2 things have died - your next door neighbor's dog and a small child who got run over by a car 2 towns over from you, and you cry more over the dog dying cuz you've known it longer and it often entertained you instead of feeling bad for the baby cuz you never knew it and it happened further away from you.

[nole4sho]

I grew up watching Chris, I wish he didn't do what they are saying he did but as a wrestler he will be missed.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

there's a lot going on in the world, in case you didn't know, that would sicken you if you ever took the time to step out of your cacoon. i can't tell people how to feel about things, but it certainly sounds like some people here are punching walls, looking up to the sky and screaming "whyyyyy Chris? whyyyyyy?".

this is like hearing 2 things have died - your next door neighbor's dog and a small child who got run over by a car 2 towns over from you, and you cry more over the dog dying cuz you've known it longer and it often entertained you instead of feeling bad for the baby cuz you never knew it and it happened further away from you.

An incredibly basic and fundamental aspect of human psychology has been discovered by a poster on an internet forum. Somebody alert the media.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I'd disagree with that last sentence. Back when I was working the ER, I saw plenty of patients with acute psychosis, mania, and homicial intent who had those symptoms as the direct result of steroids. Some types of Steroids can lead to severe psychiatric symptoms and they certainly are a possible cause of this tragedy.

That was my understanding and the basis for the comment I made in my first post last night. Obviously, we don't know yet what or why, but this crossed my mind instantly.

[Desmond]

I think the general consensus starting to leak out is that Benoit was a super intense, private individual. Lets not forget that he left his first family high and dry while stealing away another mans wife, so he isn't exactly a saint. While that obviously doesnt suggest that he would do something like this, it does show that he wasn't the "great" guy alot of people like to think he was.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

there's a lot going on in the world, in case you didn't know, that would sicken you if you ever took the time to step out of your cacoon. i can't tell people how to feel about things, but it certainly sounds like some people here are punching walls, looking up to the sky and screaming "whyyyyy Chris? whyyyyyy?".

this is like hearing 2 things have died - your next door neighbor's dog and a small child who got run over by a car 2 towns over from you, and you cry more over the dog dying cuz you've known it longer and it often entertained you instead of feeling bad for the baby cuz you never knew it and it happened further away from you.

Cacoon? I think I have a good grasp of all the sick shit that goes on in the World, which is why so many of us take pleasure in the mindless, simple things that entertain us. Like Wrestling and teaching our Dogs to fetch Slippers and do tricks.

I see what you are saying about the reactions, but again, if it hits someone like that, then so be it, it's their emotions and I respect them.

[molson]

It looks like they're going to try to do the ECW TV show and Smackdown taping tonight, as scheduled. No tributes, no angles, just matches

From Meltzer:

"The lack of an understandable explanation to the circumstances of the death of Chris, Nancy and Daniel Benoit has left virtually the entire wrestling community reeling.

Within WWE, the obvious questions and lack of answers are no different from fans and most of his long-time friends.

Vince McMahon was the inspiring general both to the wrestlers as well as the office staff all day yesterday. He held it together and was a rock of strength for much of the talent, which because of their admiration and in many cases love for Benoit, were saddened, perplexed and having an incredibly difficult time dealing with it.

Vince made the decision to run Smackdown and ECW tapings tonight without any angles or backstage storylines. The show will consist of straight wrestling matches and like last night, the original shows were scrapped. The attempt to put together a show was difficult because the crew and creative staff were said to be both emotionally and physically wrecked after yesterday.

The belief is they will brief viewers on what happened early in the show, and then product two low key shows of nothing but matches.

[SirFozzie]

They've pretty much removed Benoit completely off WWE.COM and the ShopZone, no merchandise, taking him off matchlists and everything

[SirFozzie]

Oh, I hear that Cowherd Jackass is at it again, btw

[Ben E Lou]

More from the AJC...

Superstar wrestler Chris Benoit and his wife went through a period of turbulence early in their marriage that included her claiming domestic abuse and filing for divorce, court records show.

....

The couple, who had lived together since 1997 and were married in 2000, had separated when Nancy Benoit, a wrestling manager who worked under the stage name "Woman," filed for divorce in May 2003.

In the accompanying petition for protection from domestic abuse, Nancy Benoit, 43, claimed she was intimidated by threats of violence from her 40-year-old, 5-foot-10, 220-pound husband, who was known as the "Canadian Crippler."


Benoit, the petition said, "lost his temper and threatened to strike the petitioner and cause extensive damage to the home and personal belongings of the parties, including furniture and furnishings. Petitioner is in reasonable fear for petitioner's own safety and that of the minor child."


In another count, she claimed Benoit had destroyed furniture in the home.
On May 12, 2003, the same day the divorce and protective order petitions were submitted, a judge issued a restraining order against the wrestler and barred him from the family home in Peachtree City.


On Aug. 19, 2003, Nancy Benoit filed to have the divorce and protective petitions dismissed, and both were.

[Ksyrup]

Damn, he actually lived in PTC at some point! Huh. I guess that's about as close a connection as I have to this whole story.

[Coffee Warlord]

CNN header: A law enforcement official close to the investigation tells The Associated Press that pro wrestler Chris Benoit strangled his wife and smothered his son before hanging himself in his weight room.

[Ksyrup]

I hate to say this, but...what's so "bizarre" about that?

[Coffee Warlord]

Well, there's zero details other than that (on CNN at least). It could be totally wrong, and/or could have some screwy side notes we don't know.

[stevew]

I think it was Bizarre how he killed her one day, then possibly killed his son the next day, and then waited another day before taking his own life.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by stevew

I think it was Bizarre how he killed her one day, then possibly killed his son the next day, and then waited another day before taking his own life.

Meh. We've already come up with a perfectly plausible explanation for that. Not really "bizarre" in that sense - outside of the fact that the entire act occurred at all, of course.

[stevew]

Supposedly he was watching the PPV with his son and texting people with his wife dead upstairs....that's bizarre.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by stevew

Supposedly he was watching the PPV with his son and texting people with his wife dead upstairs....that's bizarre.

What the. How can they figure that out?

[stevew]

From TMZ.com


Quote:
TMZ has learned more about the deaths of WWE wrestling superstar Chris Benoit, his wife and son -- and the information is extremely disturbing.

Several Atlanta-based law enforcement sources have told TMZ Benoit may have strangled his wife on Saturday, then smothered his son in his bed a day later. Investigators refuse to officially comment, pending final confirmation by the coroner on the cause and time of the deaths.

One source told TMZ that Benoit was texting friends during Sunday's WWE "Vengeance" Pay-Per-View program -- possibly watching the show with his son, who may have been alive at the time.

According to sources, Benoit then hanged himself Monday in a weight room inside the family home.

A police investigation is ongoing.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I hate to say this, but...what's so "bizarre" about that?

Nothing at all. The "tease" though, is that WWE.com has reported all of that, but then added, to paraphase "we have more information, but have been asked not to disclose anything else."

[Jas_lov]

The text messages Benoit sent to friends were apparently "disturbing" so maybe that's part of this being bizzare. Maybe the wife was having an affair so he snapped and killed her, but killing the seven year old son is kind of bizzare to me.

[MikeVic]

I wonder what the text messages could have been. And whether someone could have done something to stop the kid's death?

[Fidatelo]

A guy around the office is saying that he read the following scenario:

Chris gets a call from Nancy on saturday to come home, that something horrible has happened. He comes home to find that she has killed the son (possibly accidentally), and snaps and kills her. Then he sits around for a couple days and eventually kills himself.

I'll see if I can find a source.

EDIT: Sounds like his source is some friend on MSN that read it in an Edmonton newspaper. So the credibility of the above story is pretty low I'm thinking.

[Jas_lov]

They're also investigating whether steroids were a factor. I wonder if we'll see major long term changes in wwe as a result of this besides the obvious drop of the mcmahon death angle. Possibly a major crackdown on steroid use if they were involved, a less rigorous schedule for the wrestlers to give them more time to rest, etc.


PWTorch.com has learned that one major media entity has received an email purporting to be from a friend of the Chris Benoit extended family saying that Benoit accidentally killed his wife in a domestic argument, then panicked and killed his son later so his son could be with his mother rather than grow up without a mom and knowing his father as a murderer.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

A guy around the office is saying that he read the following scenario:

Chris gets a call from Nancy on saturday to come home, that something horrible has happened. He comes home to find that she has killed the son (possibly accidentally), and snaps and kills her. Then he sits around for a couple days and eventually kills himself.

I'll see if I can find a source.

I think that's one of the "Benot fans in denial" scenerios.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

They're also investigating whether steroids were a factor. I wonder if we'll see major long term changes in wwe as a result of this besides the obvious drop of the mcmahon death angle. Possibly a major crackdown on steroid use if they were involved, a less rigorous schedule for the wrestlers to give them more time to rest, etc.


PWTorch.com has learned that one major media entity has received an email purporting to be from a friend of the Chris Benoit extended family saying that Benoit accidentally killed his wife in a domestic argument, then panicked and killed his son later so his son could be with his mother rather than grow up without a mom and knowing his father as a murderer.

And then I guess his reasoning would be to kill himself so that he's the furthest away possible from both of them in the afterlife?

[Huckleberry]

Strangling your wife and especially smothering your son are "bizarre" acts to me. More so than killing them by gunshot or knife. Strangulation and smothering are very personal methods of murder. To be that close to someone you ostensibly love and to keep your hands on them until the last breath of life is gone is somehow even creepier than shooting them.

It's akin to Andrea Yates. It takes a special kind of crazy to drown your children in a bathtub. Same thing here, IMO.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

Strangling your wife and especially smothering your son are "bizarre" acts to me. More so than killing them by gunshot or knife. Strangulation and smothering are very personal methods of murder. To be that close to someone you ostensibly love and to keep your hands on them until the last breath of life is gone is somehow even creepier than shooting them.

It's akin to Andrea Yates. It takes a special kind of crazy to drown your children in a bathtub. Same thing here, IMO.

Yeah I agree. You'd think a parent's or spouse's instinct would be to help their child/spouse if they're struggling or hurt in some way. With a gunshot, it could just be one shot. With strangling/choking, you have to go through with it for more than a couple seconds.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

And then I guess his reasoning would be to kill himself so that he's the furthest away possible from both of them in the afterlife?

Do you really think logic and reason are still in play during a murder-suicide?

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Do you really think logic and reason are still in play during a murder-suicide?

Not anything that makes sense, no. I was just going by if he killed his son so that the son is in heaven with mom, he could have killed himself to eliminate the possibility of going to heaven (if you believe in that a suicide is an unforgivable sin).

[molson]

There's a press conference scheduled for 3

[Ryche]

Fit of rage, kills wife.
Realizes his son will be without parents as he will be in jail, kills son.
Can't live with what he has done, kills himself.

That's the only 'logic' I can see for the situation.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Ryche

Fit of rage, kills wife.
Realizes his son will be without parents as he will be in jail, kills son.
Can't live with what he has done, kills himself.

That's the only 'logic' I can see for the situation.

This actually make a bunch of sense to me...

[darkenigma510]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I think I understand where you're coming from with this comment. There's this strange line between fake sport and legit entertainment that has me scratching my head as well, since it's hard to see where or - in the case of some people, like the "IT'S REAL TO ME DAMMIT!" guy - if at all, the line is drawn.

A good example of this is found in the articles being run today about this horrible situation. In describing Benoit, there's this:

"He was a former world heavyweight champion, Intercontinental champion and held several tag-team titles over his career."

Now, I have no doubt those things are factually accurate, but it strikes me as beyond bizarre that they would be cited as though they were some legitimate titles he "won" during his wrestling career. It is so matter-of-fact that you might as well be describing a boxing title or MVP award or something like that, when in reality, he was given those titles based solely on the storylines of the shows he was on. Unless I'm completely missing something.

This would be like describing a soap opera actor who died as having been President of XYZ Megacorp and having spent 3 years on an uncharted island with amnesia after his ex-wife slept with his brother, poisoned him, and paid pirates to carry him away. It's the strange blurring of the facts with fantasy that has me scratching my head.

I hope that makes sense. I'm not trying to put anyone down, and it's not really a comment on wrestling fans in general, since what I'm pointing out even extends to the media, apparently.

Wrestling is something that is unique. It is a fake sport that the audience is supposed to suspend their disbelief and believe is real. The lines between reality and entertainment in wrestling have always been blurred. This is why the Mcmahon angle was seen by some as crass: because as an audience of wrestling, you're supposed to believe McMahon is dead, even though we absolutely know he is not. He was given the same treatment in 'death" that other people, who actually died, received (e.g. ten bell salute).

The lines between reality and entertainment in wrestling are ALWAYS blurred, whether they are in the ring or out of it. There is little that separates Chris Benoit, the Champion to Chris Benoit, the man. We, as wrestling fans, intrisinically view them as the same, although in the back of our heads we do realize that it isn't so. But for those who appreciate wrestling, part of the immersion factor is to let the "reality" of what happens in the ring and on our TV screen, jump out past the fourth wall.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

PWTorch.com has learned that one major media entity has received an email purporting to be from a friend of the Chris Benoit extended family saying that Benoit accidentally killed his wife in a domestic argument, then panicked and killed his son later so his son could be with his mother rather than grow up without a mom and knowing his father as a murderer.

This is exactly the scenario a couple of us posited yesterday. Now, what I'm about to say is all within the relative range of "reasonableness" that only extends within the bounds of murder (which isn't "reasonable" in any sense, of course), but...I think smothering is a type of murder/death that often occurs in a family setting, either with children or the elderly. There is no need for anger or rage, as would be required of a gunshot or beating death. I can imagine - as sick as it may seem - for him to be crying while he's killing the kid, being in such a mental/emotional state that he believes what he is doing is in his child's best interests and the only way to resolve the issue, having (a) accidentally killed the mother, and (b) decided that he must end his own life to escape the consequences of what has happened.

Believe me, this whole thing is sickening and terrible, but it does not shock me and isn't really all that bizarre. Perhaps I've watched too many episodes of Notorious to be shocked by murder details anymore.

[JHandley]

Originally Posted by Ryche

Fit of rage, kills wife.
Realizes his son will be without parents as he will be in jail, kills son.
Can't live with what he has done, kills himself.

That's the only 'logic' I can see for the situation.

Doesn't he have 2 other kids? That's the part of the 'logic' that doesn't make sense to me when people try to apply a theory to why he killed his son.

Obviously trying to apply logic to an unlogical situation isn't going to work, and the first thing people try to figure out is the why's of what happened. Unless there's a suicide note, which wouldn't be unreasonable to expect given the nature of all the deaths, I just can't get there that he killed the son out of love.

[molson]

I wouldn't call strangulation an "accidental" death, even if it was by Benoit's hands and he didn't intend to kill her.

Domestic batterors often say stuff like "things just got out of hand", etc, so maybe that's the source of this info - Benoit rationalizing via text message.

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by Ryche

Fit of rage, kills wife.
Realizes his son will be without parents as he will be in jail, kills son.
Can't live with what he has done, kills himself.

That's the only 'logic' I can see for the situation.

Yeah this makes sense. The motive behind it is possibly she had an affair or more likely threated to leave him and take the son with her since we know they were having marital problems. There had to be some reason for him to just snap like that.

[ThunderingHERD]

Current research on the behavioral effects of steroid use find that significant psychosis/manic episodes/criminal-level aggression only occur in a very(very) tiny percent of steroid users, and this data is only observational (i.e., there's no way to pinpoint steroids as a cause of the behavior). In long-term controlled studies increased aggression is a common symptom (particularly domestic violence), but certainly not to this level. I find it hard to believe that he would suddenly snap as a result of steroid use--not only snap in a sudden fit of violence, but behave in such a deranged manner for at least a manner of days (wtf kind of excuse is "I gotta go, my wife's coughing up blood" after you've strangled her?)

I'm guessing.... PCP binge.

edit: or Meth

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by JHandley

Doesn't he have 2 other kids? That's the part of the 'logic' that doesn't make sense to me when people try to apply a theory to why he killed his son.

Those other kids presumably still have their mother. In this situation, both parents are gone (one dead, the other in jail at best), and that doesn't even account for the emotional/psychological damage that might have occurred if he saw/heard what happened to his mom and/or saw her dead in the time between her death and his. Again, the rationalization, as bizarre as it may seem (not to mention cowardly, etc.), makes a certain amount of sense in that panicky, emotional/mental state he must have been in.

He's obviously had violent outbursts before, and this time he couldn't control himself until she was dead. After he "snapped back" from the rage, he was obviously remorseful/emotional and likely thought about the likely scenarios to come from all of this. Once he decided to end his own life, he rationalized a reason to kill his son to "save" him.

[JHandley]

Ok, I can see that. Probably goes without saying that none of it is going to make any real sense, I just wasn't sure why he would only want to "save" one of his kids.


It would just seem to me that if he was doing it for what he thought to be unselfish reasons, he'd go through it for all of them. Strangualtion takes time, smothering takes time, hanging takes a long time. The first act might have come from a fit of rage, but the rest were thought out. Flawed as that thinking is, there's still some thought put into it.

[Ksyrup]

I definitely think there was a ton of thought - agonizing thought - put into it what occurred after the wife died. Not that I have any sympathy for him, but I can only imagine what was going through his mind at that point. And I'm sure it was along the lines of knowing he'd be in jail for the rest of his life, his son would grow up without a mother and father, knowing his father killed his mother and possibly having seen it, deciding he'd rather die than live through the press and trial and all of that, etc., and then coming up with a tortured reason that he needed to take his kid's life. I suspect that's why it took some time for it to all play out. He was wrestling (no pun intended) with what to do, how to do it, and all of that.

[Ben E Lou]

Press conference live feed: http://www.wsbtv.com/video/13572145/index.html

[Telle]

Could have even been that the kid found mom's body and started to freak out.. which then led Benoit to try to quiet him.. which then went too far.

[MikeVic]

I'm sure his other two kids were not even in the same state at the time? I thought I read somewhere... so he wouldn't be able to kill them too. Unless he flew there or something, but then that's going so far.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Press conference live feed: http://www.wsbtv.com/video/13572145/index.html

Thanks. Nothing is going on though, eh?