Possible Penguins relocation

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Found the irony in this old article amusing...........

http://www.post-gazette.com/penguins/20010519arena7.asp

FWIW......3 of the 4 top arena design companies in the U.S. are headquartered in KC, so it's pretty likely that if you're building a new arena, a KC-based company is involved in the project.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Yes, that is a simplified version, but why is KC being touted as such a great deal? Because of a new practice facility? The facility the Pens have used prior to the last 2 seasons is available, and rumored to be in negotiations to have the Pens return there.

Here's some more pieces of information I found. It's really hard to make an apples to apples comparison in this case because a lot of the little things simply haven't been put out for public consumption. Here's a bit more information about some of the deals from what I could dig up.....

-In KC, rumor is that the Pens piece of the arena revenue would increase to 30% under the new deal. In addition, a new practice facility ($15M) would be built for the team.

-In addition to the $135M the Pens would pay over 30 years (you left out the $500,000 a year for the parking garage which is another $15M), there is also the issue of the bond and 'maximum price' around the arena proposal. The business cost for the arena is said to be estimated at $270M with a 'maximum price' of $290M. The Pens have agreed to cover that $20M (though there is some dispute on how that will be handled). But many are saying that it could take three years instead of two to build and that the cost is pretty likely to be $350-400M under that circumstance. The government wants the Pens to be responsible for all of those extra dollars, which would mean that they could be on the hook for an additional $60-110M in additional expenses. Obviously, the Pens are going to balk at a situation where they could have that happen to them.

-In addition, the Pens would be looking at three more years of losing money in the current arena even if a new arena was built (the revenue stream is significantly lower in Mellon than it would be in a new arena).

I'll put more stuff up if I happen to find anything else that helps for comparison.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

-In addition, the Pens would be looking at three more years of losing money in the current arena even if a new arena was built (the revenue stream is significantly lower in Mellon than it would be in a new arena).

Actually the city has agreed to let the Pens stay rent free, getting 100% of the revenue coming through Mellon Arena till the new one is built and ready.

-In addition to the $135M the Pens would pay over 30 years (you left out the $500,000 a year for the parking garage which is another $15M), there is also the issue of the bond and 'maximum price' around the arena proposal.

Your numbers a little off here, according to the PPG article

The Penguins have offered to put up $4 million a year toward the arena - the same amount Mr. Rendell requested from them a year ago. The team contribution included $3.6 million a year in rent and $400,000 annually for capital improvements.

It also agreed to pay $500,000 a year for a parking garage as part of the arena complex.

So 3.6 mil plus 400k plus 500k per year is 4.5 per year over 20 yrs and thats the $135 million. So the additional $15 million is incorrect.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by bsak16

Actually the city has agreed to let the Pens stay rent free, getting 100% of the revenue coming through Mellon Arena till the new one is built and ready.



Your numbers a little off here, according to the PPG article

The Penguins have offered to put up $4 million a year toward the arena - the same amount Mr. Rendell requested from them a year ago. The team contribution included $3.6 million a year in rent and $400,000 annually for capital improvements.

It also agreed to pay $500,000 a year for a parking garage as part of the arena complex.

So 3.6 mil plus 400k plus 500k per year is 4.5 per year over 20 yrs and thats the $135 million. So the additional $15 million is incorrect.

Finally the 30% increase of the 25% originally offered only comes out to 32.5% in total. It's an increase but not as great as the papers were touting yesterday.

Heh. I think the numbers got a bit jumbled, but they were correct. The overall number is 4.5M for 30 years which totals 135M.

Also, you're incorrect on the percentage. The breakdown under the new percentage deal would be......

City (50%)
AEG (20%)
Pens (30%)

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Also, you're incorrect on the percentage. The breakdown under the new percentage deal would be......)

Yeah I realized that and edited them out...sorry.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Yikes! Don't let these guys build a new arena in Pittsburgh! Built in 2003 and they're already having structural issues? I can see why Pittsburgh residents don't trust their government.......

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07068/768201-100.stm

Officials open home show, stay mum on arena talks
Friday, March 09, 2007

By Dennis B. Roddy, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Allegheny County Chief Executive Dan Onorato and Pittsburgh Mayor Luke Ravenstahl this morning opened the Pittsburgh Home and Garden Show at the David L. Lawrence Convention Center, declaring the troubled building safe, but keeping mum about whether the same could be said about the future of the Penguins in Pittsburgh.

After standing at the turnstiles and taking tickets from the first hundred visitors to the show at the repaired convention center, the two men stood side-by-side, repeatedly deflecting pleas for details about talks on a new arena.

Both men attended a four-hour session in Philadelphia last night that included team owners, the National Hockey League commissioner and Gov. Ed Rendell. At the end of that meeting, Mr. Rendell's spokesman reported "significant progress" had been made at "very constructive" talks. He said talks would resume Wednesday and the parties had agreed not to comment in the interim.

The city and county leaders followed that script today. Both would say only that details remain to be settled, but they would not say whether those details were major or minor.

Mr. Onorato said there had been no discussion about whether the Penguins would refrain from further visits to other cities seeking a hockey team. Penguins officials have already visited Kansas City and Las Vegas.

About the convention center, which has been closed to the public since a floor collapsed last month, the two men assured the public the building had been inspected, the floor and support beams repaired, and that the costs would be paid by the project's insurers.

The home show is the first event to be held since the collapse. It was pushed back a week because of repair work.

[Dr. Sak]

If you want to see screwed up jobs...do a search for Peterson Event Center and leaky roof.

[devynd]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Only new information was that Rendell's spokesperson said that the meeting was 'constructive'. Coming from Rendell's office,

To clarify, the statement read by Rendell's spokesman was a joint statement from ownership and government.

I don't think anyone enjoys having to wait until next week for another meeting, but at least there's a chance they might finally wrap it up. I heard from Dan Onorato a few weeks ago, and he seemed to expect this -- he said there are just a lot of details to work out in a deal like this, so it's just going to take time. It appears that the "impasse" letter was successful in getting the sides back to the table and providing the momentum that might finally bring the deal to a conclusion.

As far as the question of comparing deals, one local TV station reported Monday that the Pens stand to net $12 million a year from the Kansas City arena vs. $16 million a year ($20 million minus the $4 million contribution) from a new Pittsburgh arena. If so, it explains why ownership contacted KC this week and asked them to improve their offer, so as to get a little better leverage to get the deal done here.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by bsak16

Yeah I realized that and edited them out...sorry.

All of this is only part of the total deal. It's doubtful we'll ever get all the info. There's a working relationship between the NHL execs and the AEG group that is well known. That's how KC was able to build an arena without a team. They were assured one was on the way and it appears that's correct. I wouldn't be shocked to see Nashville jump while it's hot and be in KC next season.

Also, Ron Burkle is a good friend of the AEG guy running the Sprint Center in KC. There's a lot of games being played that we'll never know the true extent of what happens. It may be a good thing for KC in the end that they don't get the Pens. They may get another franchise for cheaper and Pittsburgh would be left holding a pretty expensive bill as a result, which could get the government officials in just as much hot water as they would have been if the Pens would have left.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by devynd

As far as the question of comparing deals, one local TV station reported Monday that the Pens stand to net $12 million a year from the Kansas City arena vs. $16 million a year ($20 million minus the $4 million contribution) from a new Pittsburgh arena. If so, it explains why ownership contacted KC this week and asked them to improve their offer, so as to get a little better leverage to get the deal done here.

That sounds very realistic. I know that local radio is reporting that the deals from a income perspective are basically the same at this point (KC threw in the practice facility as an extra incentive). The hang-up is that the Pens don't want to be on the hook for all the extra expenses over $270M on the arena. They've offered to cover $20M in overruns, but not unlimited like the government wants.

[KevinNU7]

While both deals seem comparable financially one thing to highlight is that the Pens arena is atleast 2-3 years away while KC is ready now. That creates a profitablility gap that could take a while to close. Pile on top of that the chance that overspend could cut in to profits and it has to be a concern for the Pens.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by KevinNU7

While both deals seem comparable financially one thing to highlight is that the Pens arena is atleast 2-3 years away while KC is ready now. That creates a profitablility gap that could take a while to close. Pile on top of that the chance that overspend could cut in to profits and it has to be a concern for the Pens.

Yes, I forgot to note that from the earlier post. Even if the Pens get Mellon for rent-free as he implied over the next 3 years, you're still playing in an arena that has a very low revenue potential for three more years. There is something to be said for that as they will be missing out on a lot of revenue for those 3 years. I saw a comparison that showed that the difference in revenue between Mellon and a top arena is about $65 for a family of 4. Assuming an arena of 17,000 people over 41 home games, that makes the missed revenue per season around $11.3 million dollars. Over 3 years, that's $34M in revenue that the Pens could have added to their bankroll. For that matter, they've been missing out on that kind of revenue for the past 8 years while they waited for a deal.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Here is the solution
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_496918.html

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

All of this is only part of the total deal. It's doubtful we'll ever get all the info. There's a working relationship between the NHL execs and the AEG group that is well known. That's how KC was able to build an arena without a team. They were assured one was on the way and it appears that's correct. I wouldn't be shocked to see Nashville jump while it's hot and be in KC next season.

Also, Ron Burkle is a good friend of the AEG guy running the Sprint Center in KC. There's a lot of games being played that we'll never know the true extent of what happens. It may be a good thing for KC in the end that they don't get the Pens. They may get another franchise for cheaper and Pittsburgh would be left holding a pretty expensive bill as a result, which could get the government officials in just as much hot water as they would have been if the Pens would have left.

Burkle also is/was a very large Rendell supporter.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Burkle also is/was a very large Rendell supporter.

Not that it's a surprise, but my understanding is that relationship is not anything like what it used to be. It's not a negative relationship, but it's not nearly as positive as it used to be.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Not that it's a surprise, but my understanding is that relationship is not anything like what it used to be. It's not a negative relationship, but it's not nearly as positive as it used to be.

I am sure it's not. But let's be honest, we are all talking about politics and vast sums of money. I am sure the Burkle/Rendell relationship is strained, just as the Burkle/AEG player relationship is strained when talking about this crap.

I highly doubt anybody involved is putting their buddy's best interest before their own.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

I am sure it's not. But let's be honest, we are all talking about politics and vast sums of money. I am sure the Burkle/Rendell relationship is strained, just as the Burkle/AEG player relationship is strained when talking about this crap.

I highly doubt anybody involved is putting their buddy's best interest before their own.

The AEG/Burkle relationship is a totally different beast. AEG is in a no-lose situation. If the Pens don't take the deal, KC will get an existing franchise or an expansion franchise very soon.

In the case of Rendell/Burkle, Burkle is going to have far less reasons to butter up Rendell if his team is in KC while Rendell will have some nice political baggage from the time he let a perfectly good team leave his state for no other reason than being too hard-headed.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The AEG/Burkle relationship is a totally different beast. AEG is in a no-lose situation. If the Pens don't take the deal, KC will get an existing franchise or an expansion franchise very soon.

In the case of Rendell/Burkle, Burkle is going to have far less reasons to butter up Rendell if his team is in KC while Rendell will have some nice political baggage from the time he let a perfectly good team leave his state for no other reason than being too hard-headed.

Rendell is in the his 2nd term as gov, and can not run next election. So, how he is viewed, politically, means nothing to him. The other two, the mayor and county commisioner, have much to lose. But they have no relationship with Burkle.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Rendell is in the his 2nd term as gov, and can not run next election. So, how he is viewed, politically, means nothing to him. The other two, the mayor and county commisioner, have much to lose. But they have no relationship with Burkle.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Rendall still has political aspirations outside of the governor's office. A lot would depend on if the future position was a statewide office or just a regional office.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Rendall still has political aspirations outside of the governor's office. A lot would depend on if the future position was a statewide office or just a regional office.

Can't say I know for sure...but don't all politicians look for another gig like the one they had rather than working for real?

ETA-- he was pretty well hated by the western 1/2 of the state before all of this happened, even getting the new building done I don't know that he's "forgiven".

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sounds like it's likely that Mario and other owners will reduce their share of the ownership after the new deal is secured in either KC or Pittsburgh.........

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07070/768612-61.stm

Burkle likely to gain more control
Sunday, March 11, 2007

By Dave Molinari, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Part-owner Rob Burkle has been heavily involved in the Penguins' negotiations for a new arena.

And when he's done with those talks -- however they play out -- Burkle might move on to a new set of negotiations: One designed to give him controlling interest in the franchise.

While he apparently has not made a decision, let alone a commitment, Burkle is considering the merits of buying most, if not all, of Mario Lemieux's interest in the team.

Previously, indications had been that all members of the current ownership group would look to sell off their shares once the arena issue is resolved. If Burkle, a billionaire who lives near Los Angeles, decides to become the team's dominant owner, it's conceivable that Lemieux and some minor members of his group would retain at least a tiny portion of the team.

Burkle attended the Penguins' 3-2 overtime victory against the New York Rangers at Mellon Arena yesterday but, in keeping with his habit of trying to maintain a low profile, did not speak with reporters.

[Karim]

Looks like it's just formalities now...
http://kdka.com/topstories/local_story_071223515.html

[Dr. Sak]

http://www.postgazette.com/pg/07072/769032-85.stm

Arena deal keeps Penguins in Pittsburgh

Tuesday, March 13, 2007
By Mark Belko, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The puck stays here.

The Pittsburgh Penguins have reached an agreement with state and local officials for construction of a new arena that will keep the team here under a 30-year lease.

The basics of the agreement were reached in a make-or-break meeting last week in Philadelphia, where both sides reported that significant progress was made. Most remaining details were worked out over the weekend, according to sources close to the negotiations.

A formal announcement will be made later today, prior to the Penguins 7:30 p.m. home game against the Buffalo Sabres. Gov. Ed Rendell is expected to be on hand for the announcement.

The arena, which will cost about $290 million, is expected to be ready for the 2009-2010 National Hockey League season. The Penguins will continue to play at Mellon Arena under a short-term lease extension until the new arena is built.

Under terms of the deal, the Pens will pay $3.8 million per year toward construction and will add another $400,000 per year for capital improvements.

A meeting had been scheduled here for tomorrow, where Penguins co-owners Mario Lemieux and Ron Burkle were supposed to meet with Mr. Rendell, Mayor Luke Ravenstahl and County Chief Executive Dan Onorato.

It was not clear last night whether that meeting would still be held. It may only be needed to go over details of a deal that officials have been seeking for months.

Chuck Ardo, the governor's spokesman, said last night that he could not confirm there was a deal.

Neither Mr. Lemieux nor Mr. Burkle could be reached for comment last night.

But there was growing optimism that an agreement was near after Thursday's meeting in Philadelphia that lasted more than four hours.

The mood following that meeting was quite a turnaround from the climate only four days before, when Mr. Lemieux and Mr. Burkle sent a letter to the politicians declaring an impasse in the talks and saying they would aggressively explore relocation.

What followed was a trip to Las Vegas, which is pursuing professional sports teams, and a sweetened offer from Kansas City, where the $276 million Sprint Center will be ready this year. The new offer improved on a deal that included free rent and half the building revenues.

With the Penguins' future in Pittsburgh hanging in the balance, Thursday's session in Philadelphia apparently significantly narrowed the differences between the two sides.

Neither Mr. Onorato nor Mr. Ravenstahl were available for comment yesterday.

Even before Thursday's meeting, the two sides did not appear to be far apart. In addition to paying for a share of the construction costs and capital improvements, the Penguins also agreed to pay $500,000 a year for a parking garage.

The rest of the funding would come from Pittsburgh casino licensee Don Barden, who would contribute $7.5 million a year, and from a gambling-financed state economic development fund, which would contribute $7.5 million annually..

One unresolved issue going into Thursday's meeting was how to pay the extra $20 million that was added as a contingency to a proposed arena bond issue, increasing it from $270 million to $290 million. Another sticking point was who would bear construction cost overruns.

The Penguins and the state have agreed to split the cost of any additional costs exceeding $290 million, up to a maximum of $310 million, sources said.

Even as negotiators were working on a final deal, the city-county Sports & Exhibition Authority has fallen behind schedule in demolishing 11 buildings in the Fifth and Centre Avenue corridors in Uptown for the new arena.

The work probably won't start for another two weeks, said Doug Straley, authority development manager. The authority originally had hoped to begin in early February.

Despite the delay, Mr. Straley said the authority still expects to have the site cleared by Sept. 1, when construction of the arena is expected to start, with hopes of opening it in 2009.

He said demolition of the 11 buildings -- nine on Fifth Avenue and two on the Epiphany Church campus -- is expected to take four months. Empire Dismantlement Corp. of Grand Island, N.Y., received a $926,419 contract to do the work.

"This demolition can get done well within the time frame to deliver the site," he said.

In explaining the delay, Mr. Straley cited the Feb. 5 collapse of a section of flooring at the authority-owned David L. Lawrence Convention Center, saying that diverted staff time away from the arena. He also said it took longer than expected to remove asbestos from the buildings to be razed.

[Dr. Sak]

Dola. I got tickets for tonight's game against Buffalo. If the game wasn't already exciting with two of the top 4 teams in the Eastern Conference squaring off, this should add extra excitement to the atmosphere.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by bsak16

Dola. I got tickets for tonight's game against Buffalo. If the game wasn't already exciting with two of the top 4 teams in the Eastern Conference squaring off, this should add extra excitement to the atmosphere.

Nice, my next game is Montreal Friday.

I am a little worried though. They are making the "official" announcement between periods (1st and 2nd?) tonight--I don't know if that old rat trap will stand up to the noise. On the plus side, that should reduce demolition costs.

[stevew]

Nelson says ha-ha.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Amazing. They finally did get it done. I wouldn't be shocked if some of these guys ended up losing election races anyway for dragging out this mess as long as they did. I suppose to some extent it's never completely done until they break ground on the new arena, but surely they can't screw that up if there is an agreement in place.

The really big loss for Pittsburgh has to do with the Mario situation. Talk radio in KC is saying that the reason Mario is likely to sell his share of the team is because this whole process has really soured him on ownership of the team. That's a shame because he's been a great ambassador for the team and was THE reason that the Penguins ended up staying in Pittsburgh. The politicians should be ashamed of themselves for pushing Mario to that point and the fans who criticized him when he was the only reason they were able to keep the team are just as shameful. Really too bad.

So now KC moves on to likely try to woo the Predators this year or next year or an expansion team in the relatively near future. We may have another thread on that this time next year, though I doubt there will be nearly as much of a problem to move the Predators or some of the other franchises that have been struggling.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Amazing. They finally did get it done. I wouldn't be shocked if some of these guys ended up losing election races anyway for dragging out this mess as long as they did. I suppose to some extent it's never completely done until they break ground on the new arena, but surely they can't screw that up if there is an agreement in place.

The really big loss for Pittsburgh has to do with the Mario situation. Talk radio in KC is saying that the reason Mario is likely to sell his share of the team is because this whole process has really soured him on ownership of the team. That's a shame because he's been a great ambassador for the team and was THE reason that the Penguins ended up staying in Pittsburgh. The politicians should be ashamed of themselves for pushing Mario to that point and the fans who criticized him when he was the only reason they were able to keep the team are just as shameful. Really too bad.

So now KC moves on to likely try to woo the Predators this year or next year or an expansion team in the relatively near future. We may have another thread on that this time next year, though I doubt there will be nearly as much of a problem to move the Predators or some of the other franchises that have been struggling.

He never really wanted to own the team, or a portion. His priority it buying the team out of bankruptcy was to get the money that was rightfully his.

The people who criticized him were not fans to begin with. The guy saved this team in 1984, and saved them again in 1999. He's been waiting nearly 8 years. None of the idiots who will criticize him would have waited 8 days for this to be settled.

[Toddiec]

In the end this will probably be a positive for both sides involved. The benefit to Pittsburgh is obvious in the fact that they get to keep the Penguins. The benefit to KC in my opinion is that now the NHL owes us a favor. It turns out in the end we were really just leverage to force the local Pittsburgh governments hand. The only time KC was really brought up over the course of the last few months was when there were supposed "standstills" in the negotiations. The Penguins would then bring up KC again to get the ball rolling again.

I am not upset as a KC sports fan because the chances of the Penguins coming here were small. But, KC was an integral component in getting the deal done in Pittsburgh no matter how you look at it. Sure we were a pawn so to speak that the NHL and owners used to get what they wanted in Pittsburgh by stringing us along, but that is not necessarily a bad thing if you look at the big picture. Now the NHL is happy with KC because the Penguins stay in a popular market and theoretically NHL owners are happy with KC because we helped force Pittsburgh to build a new arena for one of their fellow owners. NHL Happy + NHL Owners Happy = Hockey in KC in 2008 in my opinion.

[Dr. Sak]

Well I am glad this is done but I want to add I was never against KC getting a team. I think Burnside's article in today's ESPN.com sums up my thoughts..

But with negotiations on a new arena faltering and a brand new arena waiting for some lucky team in Kansas City, the very real prospect the team would be a repeat of the Quebec Nordiques had suddenly added a nightmarish tinge to the team's dream season.

The Nordiques, of course, left Quebec after the 1995 season and the following spring hoisted the first of two Stanley Cups won in Denver to become one of the NHL's most successful franchises.

I didn't want KC to fall ass backwards into Stanley Cups like Colorado did. I hope that when they do get a team if through expansion they would appreciate the good years after going through a bunch of bad ones.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by bsak16

I didn't want KC to fall ass backwards into Stanley Cups like Colorado did. I hope that when they do get a team if through expansion they would appreciate the good years after going through a bunch of bad ones.

Trust me. We don't need that. We can thank the Royals for teaching us how to appreciated a good (i.e. .500) season after going through a bunch of bad ones.

With that said, getting an expansion team under the current arrangement would be much different now than it was in the past. With the advent of a salary cap in the NHL, you can have a very good team in a pretty big hurry if you use the system to your advantage.

I echo Toddiec's comments about being the second player in this situation. I certainly think KC was more than a pawn thanks to the government officials, but the lean was always to stay and certainly no one was under other impressions. The KC group did well to give their offer and then just stay out of the way. With KC having been in Pittsburgh's position in the past, I can tell you that it's always better to be in the position KC is in with a new arena just waiting for the taking. Someone will come soon enough.

[devynd]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I wouldn't be shocked if some of these guys ended up losing election races anyway for dragging out this mess as long as they did. ...

The really big loss for Pittsburgh has to do with the Mario situation. Talk radio in KC is saying that the reason Mario is likely to sell his share of the team is because this whole process has really soured him on ownership of the team. ...

So now KC moves on to likely try to woo the Predators this year or next year or an expansion team in the relatively near future. We may have another thread on that this time next year, though I doubt there will be nearly as much of a problem to move the Predators or some of the other franchises that have been struggling.

Shoot, if the Preds leave Nashville, no one might even notice, let alone object.

I'm still hesitant to say much until a deal is actually announced, but it looks safe, so I'll say that Kansas City's involvement with the Pens has only turned out to be good. If a plausible threat of relocation was necessary to get everyone together and get the deal done, so be it. KC doesn't look like a bad hockey market, and if you get a team soon, good luck with it! It really is a great thing to have a local team in the NHL. I got my own tickets last night as soon as the news broke....

As for politicians paying a price for this, I really don't think so. There are only three with much involvement. Dan Onorato is running virtually unopposed this year. He's a levelheaded guy and probably deserves credit for his role in the negotiations. If it had been only a county issue, the deal probably would have been done months ago. Ed Rendell doesn't have another election scheduled -- if he runs for statewide office again, 2/3 of the state doesn't care about Pittsburgh and Pittsburgh-area voters generally don't like him to begin with, so he's not likely to lose much support. Luke Ravenstahl didn't have a major role in the negotiations because the city isn't contributing much more than the land. That in itself might hurt him, but he's more likely to be hurt by his youth and inexperience and the fact that he wasn't elected to the mayor's office in the first place. If he loses, it will probably be more about other things. By the time anyone faces an election -- even primaries this spring -- people around here will probably just be glad that the deal is done, and done without using tax money, and will no longer hold it against anyone for dragging them out. After all, once the deal is done, the delay hasn't really changed much. There will be two more years of the Igloo, then a new arena, and new ownership.

As for ownership, as has been noted in a post since the one quoted above, Mario has never seemed to really want to own the team. IIRC he essentially traded the part of his remaining contract that wouldn't be paid (player contracts being near the end of the line of creditors in the team's bankruptcy) for an ownership interest in the team. He has been trying to sell the team pretty much ever since. At least now he can sell it to someone who will keep it here -- it has been a bit frustrating to see his group over the years trying to sell the team to people who would move it. There have been groups that would keep the Pens here (including one that had Dan Marino and Mark Cuban as minority investors); now with a new arena in place, maybe one of those groups will reemerge. I certainly wouldn't blame anyone who has criticized Mario's ownership group, which has always seemed more interested in money than anything else; Mario himself has always seemed like he'd rather be doing something else. He was a great player, but I don't think ownership really suits him. Well, I have no idea how much he has really been committed to keeping the team here (probably not much, to be honest) and how much of that is just a byproduct of other things (like money or wanting a legacy), but in any case, he has kept the team here once again, and for that I'm grateful.

It looks like the deal will be done today, and I'm glad to hear it. We've been waiting a long time. As for Kansas City, it has been good hearing from the people there, and if I have any say in it, then you're more than welcome to stay on the Pens' bandwagon until you get a team of your own.

[devynd]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

With that said, getting an expansion team under the current arrangement would be much different now than it was in the past. With the advent of a salary cap in the NHL, you can have a very good team in a pretty big hurry if you use the system to your advantage.

The Pens themselves are a good example of that. They have rapidly turned around a team that was as bad and talent-poor as an expansion team. By my count, only two members of the current team (Marc-Andre Fleury and Ryan Malone) were members of the last pre-lockout team of just two seasons (three years) ago.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by devynd

The Pens themselves are a good example of that. They have rapidly turned around a team that was as bad and talent-poor as an expansion team. By my count, only two members of the current team (Marc-Andre Fleury and Ryan Malone) were members of the last pre-lockout team of just two seasons (three years) ago.

Where is the love for Joe Melichar?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Where is the love for Joe Melichar?

Does anyone love Joe Melichar?

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Does anyone love Joe Melichar?

I actually haven't jumped on the KILL MELICHAR bandwagon.
When used correctly, bottom pairing, he is not bad. Also, his name is not Rob Scuderi.

[Dr. Sak]

My favorite Penguin is Colby Armstrong. Funny Colby story...

He has a show with Mark Madden (ESPN Radio 1250AM) each week and Madden asked him to explain why he has holes in his hockey stick and to tell the listeners where they are located. So Colby goes "Well the blade is shaped like this, and the shaft comes down like this and the holes are located right about..."

Madden cuts him off and says "Do you realize you are on the radio?"

Colby replies "Oh yea...well I don't know why I have holes in my stick."

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by bsak16

My favorite Penguin is Colby Armstrong. Funny Colby story...

He has a show with Mark Madden (ESPN Radio 1250AM) each week and Madden asked him to explain why he has holes in his hockey stick and to tell the listeners where they are located. So Colby goes "Well the blade is shaped like this, and the shaft comes down like this and the holes are located right about..."

Madden cuts him off and says "Do you realize you are on the radio?"

Colby replies "Oh yea...well I don't know why I have holes in my stick."

Weren't you the one that mentioned earlier in the thread that you were a Philly and not a Pitt fan?

[Dr. Sak]

Yeah I am a Philly fan but I live in Pittsburgh. I have grown to like the Pens as my second favorite team and I really enjoy hockey. SInce the Flyers suck this year I'll pull for the Pens, but if it came down to the Flyers vs the Pens I would pull for Philly.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by bsak16

Yeah I am a Philly fan but I live in Pittsburgh. I have grown to like the Pens as my second favorite team and I really enjoy hockey. SInce the Flyers suck this year I'll pull for the Pens, but if it came down to the Flyers vs the Pens I would pull for Philly.

Nobody's perfect.

Best Colby story was last season vs. VAN. He catches Ryan Kesler coming across the middle, with his head down, and lays him out. After the obligatory pushing and shoving, because you aren't allowed to hit anyone cleanly, everyone goes back to their benches...where Armstrong blows kisses to Kesler.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by bsak16

Yeah I am a Philly fan but I live in Pittsburgh. I have grown to like the Pens as my second favorite team and I really enjoy hockey. SInce the Flyers suck this year I'll pull for the Pens, but if it came down to the Flyers vs the Pens I would pull for Philly.

Yikes! You'd be shot for pulling something like that in the midwest. We don't switch sides if our team isn't doing well. That would be like me saying that because the Royals weren't good, I rooted for the Cardinals last year to win the World Series or because Mizzou didn't make the NCAA tourney I'm going to root for Kansas or Illinois.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Yikes! You'd be shot for pulling something like that in the midwest. We don't switch sides if our team isn't doing well. That would be like me saying that because the Royals weren't good, I rooted for the Cardinals last year to win the World Series or because Mizzou didn't make the NCAA tourney I'm going to root for Kansas or Illinois.

Well I've never actually lived in Philly so technically I should be pulling for my hometown team. I am not giving up on the Flyers, I still went to the game last week wearing my Flyer Orange but if they can't win I hope the Pens do.

That being said I cant stand Crosby. He's great I wont deny that but he's killed the Flyers the past two years. Even now I can bring myself to cheer for the guy.

[14ers]

Announcement comming.

http://wfmz.com/view/?id=71712

Deal Reached to Keep Penguins in Pittsburgh
POSTED: 03-13-2007 09:55 AM ET
MODIFIED: 03-13-2007 11:22 AM ET

---

HARRISBURG, Pa. (AP) Governor Ed Rendell says the Pittsburgh Penguins have reached a deal with city, county and state officials on financing for a new arena that will keep them in the Steel City. Rendell made the announcement this morning in Harrisburg. He said money from the state's new slot machine parlors would help fund the new arena. The Penguins had threatened to leave Pittsburgh if they couldn't secure a new rink. Their lease at 46-year-old Mellon Arena, the oldest facility in the league, expires June 30th and the team is free to leave after that. The Penguins began playing in Pittsburgh in 1967, and won Stanley Cup titles in 1991 and 1992. Their home attendance and local TV ratings are among the strongest of the N-H-L's 24 U-S-based franchises. Penguins officials visited to Kansas City, Missouri, and Las Vegas to discuss the idea of moving the team.

[Young Drachma]

Well time to move Nashville to Vegas.

[Fidatelo]

Preds to Winnipeg pls.

[BigDPW]

I just don't understand this whole NHL Expansion going to KC thinking??? The NHL is probably 2-6 teams too big now at 30 teams and if they could benefit from anything it would be contraction (though granted none of us want to lose our teams)...

I hope KC ends up with a team moving if they are willing to step up to the plate like they did to try and get the Pens but I find it hard to believe that the NHL is really thinking about expanding again???

[KevinNU7]

Originally Posted by BigDPW

I just don't understand this whole NHL Expansion going to KC thinking??? The NHL is probably 2-6 teams too big now at 30 teams and if they could benefit from anything it would be contraction (though granted none of us want to lose our teams)...

I hope KC ends up with a team moving if they are willing to step up to the plate like they did to try and get the Pens but I find it hard to believe that the NHL is really thinking about expanding again???

They want to go to 32 with 4 team divisions ala the NFL. While contraction would improve the product it is would be bad publicity for a league that can't really afford that right now. The MLB could stand to contract too but their aren't owners lining up to get out of the game so it isn't going to happen.

[SteelerFan448]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The really big loss for Pittsburgh has to do with the Mario situation. Talk radio in KC is saying that the reason Mario is likely to sell his share of the team is because this whole process has really soured him on ownership of the team.

He said they were not selling the team and made no mention of selling his portion at the PC tonight. Mario and the rest of their group wants to stick with this team and watch how their future goes in their new building that they worked so hard for.

[Dr. Sak]

What a game tonight. I thought the roof was going to come off when Mario stepped out onto the ice to make the formal announcement.

And from what I understand Mario isn't selling his stake in the team. He wants to stick with them because he feels they have a real promising future.

[Cards4ever]

Hooray for Pittsburgh! I'm glad you kept your team! As someone who lost a team(the North Stars), I don't like to see relocation and if I was a NHL fan in KC I would much prefer expansion over taking another city's team.