NFL Week 17

[Pumpy Tudors]

Ohbytheway, the blue pants on the Rams are sexy.

[Philliesfan980]

The NFL is really screwing us (alright this is already totally off topic!!!)

Is the NFL turning into Communism?

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

Is the NFL turning into Communism?

Isn't the highlight deal the height of capitalism? They're essentially selling the video rights to the highest bidder. The old system was closer to communism than the new, upcoming system...

[Philliesfan980]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Isn't the highlight deal the height of capitalism? They're essentially selling the video rights to the highest bidder. The old system was closer to communism than the new, upcoming system...

I suppose you're right. However, between this and the Madden deal, they are really limiting our choices as a consumer.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

The NFL is really screwing us (alright this is already totally off topic!!!)

Is the NFL turning into Communism?

The irony of the parenthetical statement is funny but what the heck, I agree with you on your real point so... good point.

[Philliesfan980]

Don't forget the DirectTV deal.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Isn't the highlight deal the height of capitalism? They're essentially selling the video rights to the highest bidder. The old system was closer to communism than the new, upcoming system...

Correct about the misuse of terms but the NFL is very much limiting the exposure of the common fan to the product and in the end I'm not so sure it's such a good idea. Accessability is a pretty huge part of the popularity of sports.

Now, the NFL is the best game in town but that may not always last forever. Let them hit a down period, say a strike and see how much good will the people they've screwed over will still have for them when they come back.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

Don't forget the DirectTV deal.

That's the one that pisses me off. I live in a building that won't let me get satellite signal so I can't get DirectTV.

[Philliesfan980]

DirecTV doesn't have ComcastSportsNet (philly), so no Phillies games for me = no DirecTV.

However, I don't see another sport, strike or not, beating the NFL anytime soon. The league is run really well, and I like most aspects of it, and love how they handle contracts.

[Philliesfan980]

Dola, I'm just following the game via gamecast, is Steven Jackson hurt this week? Nice to see Faulk getting some carries either way, I hope he hangs it up after this year. It's a shame to see him struggle through these past two years, compared to how dominant he was during 97 - 03 (or there abouts).

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

DirecTV doesn't have ComcastSportsNet (philly), so no Phillies games for me = no DirecTV.

However, I don't see another sport, strike or not, beating the NFL anytime soon. The league is run really well, and I like most aspects of it, and love how they handle contracts.

No, don't get me wrong. I don't think any other sport beats them soon but they may well find their revenue streams tightened up a great bit. They'll still be fine and it'll be a good product but I can see that the short term money that they get from exclusivity might bite them in the butt if they alienate the casual fans.

Those are the ones who won't be seeing the games since they're not on and won't be following the league if there's no shows on tv showing it. It's not inconceivable that these fans could become apathetic if there's a strike and not jump back on bandwagons right away.

That's what happened in baseball and they survived but it took a bite. I was in the exact same boat with baseball. I was a casual fan, had no home team to root for and simply didn't miss them when they were gone nor did I really take up the hobby after they came back.

It wasn't until the last few years that I have become even a bit interested in the league was when Lou Piniella came to the Devil Rays and I thought maybe I could follow them because they were from my hometown. I'm not saying my money is something that really damaged baseball but it's money that they would have had otherwise.

[stevew]

I wish that I could get sunday ticket from the Cable company. I'd gladly have paid for it when I lived outside the Steelers market. But I dont want to have to mess around with direct tv just for that package.

[Pumpy Tudors]

When the new season starts soon, I'm going to start an Arena Football thread each week. I've never had a thread to myself before, and I'm really looking forward to it. Thanks for the inspiration, guys!

[Philliesfan980]

Sounds good. I have an Arena team around me in Philly, but I don't know anything about them.

Can you drop me a few names (college stars, or former nfl players) who are in the arena league? I know that Giovanni (QB of LA I believe) used to backup down in ATL, but other than that I'm pretty clueless.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

Sounds good. I have an Arena team around me in Philly, but I don't know anything about them.

Can you drop me a few names (college stars, or former nfl players) who are in the arena league? I know that Giovanni (QB of LA I believe) used to backup down in ATL, but other than that I'm pretty clueless.

In general, the quarterbacks are the stars of the league (no surprise there). John Dutton from Colorado, Mark Grieb from San Jose, Aaron Garcia from New York, and Tony Graziani of Philadelphia are among the best. If you're looking for former NFL players, you'll usually find them at receiver, but they were never NFL household names. Marcus Nash, Aaron Bailey, and Travis McGriff (whose career may be over after essentially quitting on his team last year) all have some NFL experience, but they didn't shine until they got to the AFL.

I can tell you that you've got a great quarterback out there. Graziani has been described as the Peyton Manning of the AFL, and I agree. He sees the whole field and is incredibly accurate. He almost never makes a bad play. As long as one of the rookie receivers develops, Graziani should have another wonderful season. The Soul was disappointing last season, but the defense should be pretty good, so they're just one more receiver away from being a playoff contender.

I don't know how close you are to the arena, but if you get a chance to go to a game, DO IT. The rules are a little complex, but they don't affect the fans' enjoyment of the game. You don't need to know what an illegal defense is or when substitutes can come in. Just sit back, enjoy the show, and try to catch a football if it gets thrown or kicked into the stands.

Once the rosters get set (the teams are in training camp now), I'll have a better handle on who's playing this year and who's not. After that, I can really tell you who to watch for. Just for kicks, I'd like to add that Philadelphia has Tommy Maddox's AFL rights, although there's obviously no chance that he'll ever play there.

[Axxon]

That intentional grounding call against the Rams is one of the worst calls I've ever seen.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Washington at Tampa Bay bores me, mostly because I don't really care for either team.

Originally Posted by Dutch

History would suggest I watch this game even if I'm not a Bucs fan. Especially if the last game was any indication.

Make sure you quote the whole line next time, big guy.

Washington and Tampa Bay could play a 72-71 thriller with the game-tying TD coming on the final play of the game involving 21 laterals with the winning point scored by a Chris Simms drop kick and I still wouldn't care. I just don't care for either team.

That said, I'll take the under BIG TIME on the rematch not having the same firepower. I don't think either side has it in them.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Make sure you quote the whole line next time, big guy.

Washington and Tampa Bay could play a 72-71 thriller with the game-tying TD coming on the final play of the game involving 21 laterals with the winning point scored by a Chris Simms drop kick and I still wouldn't care. I just don't care for either team.

May not work for you but I'd sure take it.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Make sure you quote the whole line next time, big guy.

Sorry, you just came off sounding a bit bitter and I wanted to rub it in.

[TazFTW]

Looks like the Cowboys are going to move up two spots in the draft.

[biological warrior]

Bah! Another turnover by Bledsoe! Seriously How many games has this guy cost his team(s) throughout the years?

[Senator]

Good. Moving up in the draft is the first thing to go right today for the Cowboys.

[Solecismic]

Draft Order for 2006

1. Houston 2-14
2. New Orleans 3-13
3. Tennessee 4-12
4. New York Jets 4-12
5. Green Bay 4-12
6/7. San Francisco 4-12 (subject to coin flip)
6/7. Oakland 4-12 (subject to coin flip)
8. Buffalo 5-11
9. Detroit 5-11
10. Arizona 5-11
11. St. Louis 6-10
12. Cleveland 6-10
13. Baltimore 6-10
14. Philadelphia 6-10
15. Atlanta 8-8
16. Miami 9-7
17. Minnesota 9-7
18. Dallas 9-7
19. San Diego 9-7
20. Kansas City 10-6

(Super Bowl teams are automatically placed at 31 and 32, teams with the same record are first separated by how far they go in the playoffs)

21. New England 10-6
22. Washington 10-6
23. Carolina 11-5
24. Tampa Bay 11-5
25. Chicago 11-5
26. Cincinnati 11-5
27/28. New York Giants 11-5
27/28. Pittsburgh 11-5
29. Jacksonville 12-4
30. Seattle 13-3
31. Denver 13-3
32. Indianapolis 14-2


Toughest Schedules (Total number of opponents' wins, not adjusted for record of team):

1. San Diego 143 - 113 .559
2. Oakland 138-118 .539
2. Washington 138-118 .539
2. San Francisco 138-118 .539
5. Houston 137-119 .535
6. Philadelphia 136-120 .531
6. Green Bay 136-120 .531
8. New York Jets 135-121 .527
9. Baltimore 134-122 .523
9. Dallas 134-122 .523
9. New Orleans 134-122 .523
12. Tennessee 131-125 .512
13. New England 130-126 .508
13. Cleveland 130-126 .508
13. Arizona 130-126 .508
16. Kansas City 129-127 .504
16. Detroit 129-127 .504
18. Buffalo 128-128 .500
18. Denver 128-128 .500
20. Pittsburgh 126-130 .492
20. New York Giants 126-130 .492
20. Atlanta 126-130 .492
23. Minnesota 124-132 .484
23. St. Louiis 124-132 .484
25. Cincinnati 122-134 .477
26. Jacksonville 119-137 .465
27. Miami 117-139 .457
27. Indianapolis 117-139 .457
27. Chicago 117-139 .457
30. Carolina 115-141 .449
30. Tampa Bay 115-141 .449
32. Seattle 110-146 .430

[Hurst2112]

I wonder...

What team has had the toughest schedule to make it to a SB? Seeing Jims list, I noticed that NE is just above .500 and is the team that has the toughest schedule.

Anywhere to see the history of this?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Everybody will have already seen the highlights by the time ESPN can show them.

I'm not so sure about that.

If anybody is capable of making something border on unwatchable, it's NBC Sports.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

I wonder...

What team has had the toughest schedule to make it to a SB? Seeing Jims list, I noticed that NE is just above .500 and is the team that has the toughest schedule.

Anywhere to see the history of this?

Actually Washington, who also has a chance, is far higher (see #2)

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

I wonder...

What team has had the toughest schedule to make it to a SB? Seeing Jims list, I noticed that NE is just above .500 and is the team that has the toughest schedule.

Anywhere to see the history of this?

7 of the bottom 8 teams are playoff teams. I'd be interested how this works in ALL sports. Whenever I go back and look at stats/scores/etc, it seems like the players or teams seem to achieve their greatness against some really shitty opponents.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by Axxon

Correct about the misuse of terms but the NFL is very much limiting the exposure of the common fan to the product and in the end I'm not so sure it's such a good idea. Accessability is a pretty huge part of the popularity of sports.

Putting a highlights show on NBC, usually a free over-the-air station in most cities, is actually making it more available to the common person than sticking it on cable was. Now you will only need a TV and antenna, instead of a cable/satellite subscription.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by Axxon

That's the one that pisses me off. I live in a building that won't let me get satellite signal so I can't get DirectTV.

They can't legally prevent you if you have a clear view of the appropriate direction (by order of the FCC).

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

Putting a highlights show on NBC, usually a free over-the-air station in most cities, is actually making it more available to the common person than sticking it on cable was. Now you will only need a TV and antenna, instead of a cable/satellite subscription.

But at the same time, by making a move like that, aren't you moving the show away from its core demographic?

Who watches highlight shows?

1) "hardcore" fans who want to know what's going on around the league.

2) serious fantasy football owners (and by serious, I mean those in a pay league).

Both of which are already a key part of ESPN's demographic. The latter may migrate to NBC or whoever-the-fuck to get their highlights, but I'm not convinced the former will give a damn in the Internet age.

[TazFTW]

Watching Mike and Mike on the deuce and they mentioned that Brees will be having shoulder surgery that Chad Pennington went through. I think San Diego's interest in trading Philip Rivers just dropped immensely.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Rizon

7 of the bottom 8 teams are playoff teams. I'd be interested how this works in ALL sports. Whenever I go back and look at stats/scores/etc, it seems like the players or teams seem to achieve their greatness against some really shitty opponents.

Well, keep in mind these numbers are not adjusted for the team's record. Indy's schedule becomes weaker because they gave they their opponents 13 losses personally. If you want to judge a true SOS, you need to pull out the results the team was involved in.

[cthomer5000]

Adjusted SOS

1 SanDiego 136-104 0.567
2 Washington 132-108 0.550
3 Dallas 127-113 0.529
4 Oakland 126-114 0.525
4 SanFrancisco 126-114 0.525
4 Philadelphia 126-114 0.525
7 Denver 125-115 0.521
8 GreenBay 124-116 0.517
8 Baltimore 124-116 0.517
8 NewEngland 124-116 0.517
11 Houston 123-117 0.513
11 NyJets 123-117 0.513
11 KansasCity 123-117 0.513
14 NewOrleans 121-119 0.504
14 Pittsburgh 121-119 0.504
14 NyGiants 121-119 0.504
17 Cleveland 120-120 0.500
18 Tennessee 119-121 0.496
18 Arizona 119-121 0.496
20 Detroit 118-122 0.492
20 Atlanta 118-122 0.492
22 Buffalo 117-123 0.488
22 Minnesota 117-123 0.488
22 Cincinnati 117-123 0.488
25 Jacksonville 115-125 0.479
25 Indianapolis 115-125 0.479
27 St,Louis 114-126 0.475
28 Chicago 112-128 0.467
29 Miami 110-130 0.458
29 Carolina 110-130 0.458
29 TampaBay 110-130 0.458

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Axxon

That intentional grounding call against the Rams is one of the worst calls I've ever seen.

I taped the game last night and only just got round to watching it so I'm a bit late on this one, but I completely agree. The ball landed in the end zone and had the reciever not cut the route off it would have been right on target. And he got nailed as he was letting it go.

That was a call that should get whoever made it kicked out of the league. It cost the Rams three points as well which in a different situation could be crucial.

The flag was dropped ten seconds after the play as well. Just unbelievable.

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Actually Washington, who also has a chance, is far higher (see #2)

Funny, cause I was wrong. Thanks.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I taped the game last night and only just got round to watching it so I'm a bit late on this one, but I completely agree. The ball landed in the end zone and had the reciever not cut the route off it would have been right on target. And he got nailed as he was letting it go.

That was a call that should get whoever made it kicked out of the league. It cost the Rams three points as well which in a different situation could be crucial.

The flag was dropped ten seconds after the play as well. Just unbelievable.

Agreed. I think the person making that call should be fired. That didn't look like a judgement thing. It looks deliberate and the way they flagged the Rams for arguing it only reinforces that thought. It looked like a zebra with an agenda and if they're going to have one, at least make it look semi real.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just a little factoid for the Vick-haters.

1)70,262 - attendance for NFC playoff game vs SF in Jan '99 (SB year)
2)70,796 - attendance for yesterday's meaningless game vs Carolina

Said it before, I'll say it again -- Vick & what he might do on ay given play is more interesting to the fan base than anything the team does in the W/L department.

College football is life. Pro football is, at best, a little entertainment between Saturdays.
(the Atlanta fan take, not neccessarily mine entirely. I don't rank either one of them that highly)

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Just a little factoid for the Vick-haters.

1)70,262 - attendance for NFC playoff game vs SF in Jan '99 (SB year)
2)70,796 - attendance for yesterday's meaningless game vs Carolina

Said it before, I'll say it again -- Vick & what he might do on ay given play is more interesting to the fan base than anything the team does in the W/L department.

College football is life. Pro football is, at best, a little entertainment between Saturdays.
(the Atlanta fan take, not neccessarily mine entirely. I don't rank either one of them that highly)

Lions sold out out the 80,000 + seat Silverdome with Ron Rivers and Greg Hill in quite a few meaningless games.

It's football, people love it, it's not the Mike Vick lovefest.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle

It's football, people love it

You don't know this part of the country. The Falcons would routinely draw under 60,000 for meaningless games pre-Vick. People would not go to games here.

[Ben E Lou]

Dola...

Team	Year	G	Total	Average
Atlanta Falcons	1983	8	333,359	41,670
Atlanta Falcons	1984	8	312,351	39,044
Atlanta Falcons	1985	8	272,133	34,017
Atlanta Falcons	1986	8	389,922	48,740
Atlanta Falcons	1987	8	189,815	23,727
Atlanta Falcons	1988	8	267,813	33,477
Atlanta Falcons	1989	8	320,551	40,069
Atlanta Falcons	1990	8	394,853	49,357
Atlanta Falcons	1991	8	400,931	50,116
Atlanta Falcons	1992	8	553,979	69,247
Atlanta Falcons	1993	8	456,537	57,067
Atlanta Falcons	1994	8	458,509	57,314
Atlanta Falcons	1995	8	419,105	52,388
Atlanta Falcons	1996	8	335,638	41,955
Atlanta Falcons	1997	8	375,427	46,928
Atlanta Falcons	1998	8	457,477	57,185
Atlanta Falcons	1999	8	458,627	57,328
Atlanta Falcons	2000	8	420,303	52,538
Atlanta Falcons	2001	8	422,732	52,842
Atlanta Falcons	2002	8	540,171	67,521
Atlanta Falcons	2003	8	563,676	70,460
Atlanta Falcons	2004	8	564,829	70,603

Note the 10,000 more people per game when Vick took over as starter in 2002 versus the Super Bowl year in 1998. I guess I should edit my comment above to "The Falcons would routinely draw under 60,000 to meaningful games pre-Vick. Now they draw over 70,000 for meaningless games."

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Dola...


Note the 10,000 more people per game when Vick took over as starter in 2002 versus the Super Bowl year in 1998. I guess I should edit my comment above to "The Falcons would routinely draw under 60,000 to meaningful games pre-Vick. Now they draw over 70,000 for meaningless games."

I don't think that's even mostly Vick though. I watch the games to see Mora Jr when he finally blows up on national tv. Come on, it's the NASCAR division, we only watch for the car wrecks. Same difference here.

[Bad-example]

The Falcons might draw better in general if they could manage back-to-back winning seasons.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle

It's football, people love it, it's not the Mike Vick lovefest.

Actually, you're kinda right. On Sunday, it's football (lower-case l)
What they play on Saturday is FOOTBALL.

Again, I'm not defending it/attacking it or in between, I'm just telling you how it is down here. "f" is a way to pass the time, and being entertained is what matters most, and what Vick does entertains more people than wins in games few people truly care about. "F" is a way of life, and winning surpasses all else.

I mean, damn, very few people gave much more than a passing damn when the Falcons went to the Super Bowl, how many do you think really care if they go 8-8 or 9-7 or 7-9? But if Vick busts off one of those 50 yard horizontal / 25 yard vertical runs it gets talked about for two weeks minimum.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Axxon

I don't think that's even mostly Vick though. I watch the games to see Mora Jr when he finally blows up on national tv. Come on, it's the NASCAR division, we only watch for the car wrecks. Same difference here.

Ax, I doubt 10% of Atlantas could name Jim Mora (jr) by name, I doubt less than 1/3rd would be able to match him, Bob Hartley, and Mike Woodson to their respective teams if you gave them a two-column list & asked them to draw lines to the proper pairing. More than that could tell you which roman numeral of UGA (the mascot) is currently working in Athens.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Ax, I doubt 10% of Atlantas could name Jim Mora (jr) by name, I doubt less than 1/3rd would be able to match him, Bob Hartley, and Mike Woodson to their respective teams if you gave them a two-column list & asked them to draw lines to the proper pairing. More than that could tell you which roman numeral of UGA (the mascot) is currently working in Athens.

I don't know about that. The Official Falcons Forum has 1,110,641 replies in it's main forum while Buccaneers.com, their official site has 1,169,046 replies. A very, very unscientific post but IMHO it shows there's rather a lot of Falcon's football fans talking Falcons football to me. I'm sure those guys know who Jim Mora ( jr ) is because it was there that I learned that junior, as you know isn't a junior at all.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Axxon

A very, very unscientific post but IMHO it shows there's rather a lot of Falcon's football fans talking Falcons football to me.

Or it shows that there's a small number of Falcon fans who have waaaaay too much time on their hands.

Hell, I talk about them on here & I give only slightly more than a flying fuck about them. And I'd sooner have dental work without painkiller than ever endure another Falcons game in person at the Georgia Dome. (Worst.Place.To. Watch.Football.EVER.)

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Or it shows that there's a small number of Falcon fans who have waaaaay too much time on their hands.

Hell, I talk about them on here & I give only slightly more than a flying fuck about them. And I'd sooner have dental work without painkiller than ever endure another Falcons game in person at the Georgia Dome. (Worst.Place.To. Watch.Football.EVER.)

They'd have to have a heck of a lot of time on their hands to generate that traffic. FOFC is only showing 313,120 replies to put it into perspective. There's a lot of fans talking no matter what. How they compare as a percentage of the population I have no clue but I think your numbers have to be off even though I know what you're saying and you're not wrong, just overstating.

[Dutch]

I don't normally do this, but I'm gonna give the people who actually live in Georgia the benefit of the doubt on this one.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Axxon

They'd have to have a heck of a lot of time on their hands to generate that traffic. FOFC is only showing 313,120 replies to put it into perspective. There's a lot of fans talking no matter what. How they compare as a percentage of the population I have no clue but I think your numbers have to be off even though I know what you're saying and you're not wrong, just overstating.

He is overstating, but correct. Just by your example proves the difference post-Vick. Before Vick, you'd be lucky to find any active Falcons messageboard.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

He is overstating, but correct. Just by your example proves the difference post-Vick. Before Vick, you'd be lucky to find any active Falcons messageboard.

What's funny though it that board, and another falcon board I read absolutely hate and bash Michael Vick and blame everything that's wrong in Atlanta on the guy. It's laughable. He'd get blamed for the other team scoring a touchdown on offense. I mean it makes sense, without his salary they could have bought a CB that doesn't suck, things like that.