Look, it is best to let sleeping SkyDogs lie. - Page 7

JonInMiddleGA · 12-04-2005, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

i think he would ban anyone who openly admitted to illegally downloading MP3s. that's a start.

Actually, you could start with the 38 names on my ignore list.
And THEN move on to other things that annoy me

Cuckoo · 12-04-2005, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Actually, you could start with the 38 names on my ignore list.
And THEN move on to other things that annoy me

38?!? Wow...

Edit: *wonders if Jon can even see this post*

GreenMonster · 12-04-2005, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

38?!? Wow...

Edit: *wonders if Jon can even see this post*

Thats the most I have ever heard also.. I still haven't found a person I need to ignore, I have a pretty thick skin, and take message board posts more lightly than others...

JonInMiddleGA · 12-04-2005, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

Edit: *wonders if Jon can even see this post*

Yes, I can ... and you're the only lucky contestant for whom I'm going to answer that question. Otherwise I'd be here all night

Cuckoo · 12-04-2005, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yes, I can ... and you're the only lucky contestant for whom I'm going to answer that question. Otherwise I'd be here all night

I didn't figure I would be, since I probably agree with you a lot more than some other people around here. But with that many on ignore, the odds weren't in my favor...

DanGarion · 12-05-2005, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

He did not appear to break any EULA agreement and this is the very reason in which the person was banned. So all I am saying is that the moderator needs to rethink this and allow this person back, because the moderator even admitted to never reading the EULA himself and in this case, the person didn't even break anything according to the both game agreements posted above.

So has this guy been unbanned and the post unlocked yet?

SackAttack · 12-05-2005, 12:47 AM

Of course not. Grandstanding is almost never followed by penitence.

Antmeister · 12-05-2005, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dangarion

So has this guy been unbanned and the post unlocked yet?

Uh no....I know it seems pointless right now but I have seem change the penalty with Franklinnoble at one time and was hoping that this would be the case for this person. Although I often joke about the elitist card, I think the fact that he didn't post more often was his downfall. That is a shame since his other posts were talking about TCY.

Marc Vaughan · 12-05-2005, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airhog

I think there are 3 kinds of people that pirate. You have the people that do spend money on games. They pirate stuff, and purchase the stuff they really like. I think this group is a minority. The second kind, is people that pirate stuff, but rarely ever buy anything. The only stuff they buy, is games that have to have a cd-key to play online, or software that is not pirated. I would think that the majority of pirates probably fall into this group. The third group of people is those that do not buy anything. They claim that if there was not pirated stuff, they wouldnt buy anything anyways, so the company is not losing sales from them. I think the number of people that would not buy anything if they could not pirate has to be relatively small.

The second part of this issue is how many sales are truly lost. Lets say game X is pirates 150,000 times. Obviously you cannot say that 6.75million was lost, because you have no way of knowing how many people that pirated the game would have bought it.

I think that if there was no piracy, and there was no ablility to rent games, you might see a modest increase in revenues. But I don't think the jump would be a significant as some might believe.

Heck it doesn't have to be a huge amount of them who purchase the game, using FM as an example - if 1 of those 8 pirates purchased the game then it'd double SI's revenue ... allowing us to licence more leagues and put more coders on the project (and also probably allow us to expand into more sports).

Marc Vaughan · 12-05-2005, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

good food for thought, Marc.

I don't want to come off like I'm supporting piracy, but I am one to question the real effect piracy has on sales. I generally look at it as the person using a warez version as not being someone who was going to buy the game anyway (this applies to music too, IMO). So you could have a zillion downloads of of a warez of FM, but you aren't really losing any sales there. At least with a used game, you know there's money a consumer was willing to spend on the title in the first place - I see warez people as downloading games they had no intention of paying any amount of money for.

again, that doesn't justify piracy, and it's pretty easy for me to have that opinion, as there are NO versions of my games being pirated.

I disagree that we aren't losing any sales through piracy a lot of the 'warez' crowd play FM for well over 30 hours play-time (I know because I've had 'support' save games sent to me which have markings indicating they've been created using warez versions).

This means that they're definitely enjoying the game and leads me to believe that is at least a slim chance that if they couldn't pirate it then they'd purchase it.

At the end of the day as I've indicated above if one in eight of those pirates purchased the game then it'd double the companies income, thats a heck of a change ...darn it if one in sixteen of them purchased then its still increasing SI's income by 50%.

kiwiLB57 · 12-05-2005, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

and also probably allow us to expand into more sports.

Sooooo. Rugby anytime soon?

randal7 · 12-05-2005, 07:36 AM

FWIW, on one of the side topics:

Prior to purchasing FOF2K4, I e-mailed Solecismic thru the address on the Solecismic site. I asked if the game could be played on both my home and work computers, as this was a prerequisite for my purchase (my concern was "will both work?", not the legalities). The response, which I assume came direct from Jim, was that I would recieve 2 licenses and could in fact install on 2 computers for personal use. I'd attach the e-mail, but this was 2 years ago and it is long gone.

gstelmack · 12-05-2005, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I disagree that we aren't losing any sales through piracy a lot of the 'warez' crowd play FM for well over 30 hours play-time (I know because I've had 'support' save games sent to me which have markings indicating they've been created using warez versions).

"Nice" to see that that happens to other developers as well. The only thing I hate more than a pirate is a pirate with enough gall to contact support over problems they are having. As I said above, not only are they playing the game for free, they are COSTING YOU MONEY by using up valuable support time. If you go buy the estimate that a single support call eats up your profit on one game sale, every pirate that asks for support ERASES one sale from a legitimate customer. It's ridiculous.

I've seen support threads over a one month period where roughly HALF the support requests were from a pirated version.

Tekneek · 12-05-2005, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Hmm ... you expecting a big gasp of horror from me over that notion?

From you? Quite the opposite, actually.

DaddyTorgo · 12-05-2005, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I disagree that we aren't losing any sales through piracy a lot of the 'warez' crowd play FM for well over 30 hours play-time (I know because I've had 'support' save games sent to me which have markings indicating they've been created using warez versions).

fuckers. i hope you sent them back virus-loaded savegames to destroy their HD's!

Marc Vaughan · 12-06-2005, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstelmack

"Nice" to see that that happens to other developers as well. The only thing I hate more than a pirate is a pirate with enough gall to contact support over problems they are having. As I said above, not only are they playing the game for free, they are COSTING YOU MONEY by using up valuable support time. If you go buy the estimate that a single support call eats up your profit on one game sale, every pirate that asks for support ERASES one sale from a legitimate customer. It's ridiculous.

I've seen support threads over a one month period where roughly HALF the support requests were from a pirated version.

The worst is where the 'hack' to turn the game into warez has fubar'd something which they then scream about on our boards as being a bug which prevents people from playing the game .... 'tis a catch 22 situation, we can't be 100% certain its a warez only issue (even if we have only seen it on warez versions) and so can't simply ignore it.

This means we spend support time and development time looking into something which probably doesn't exist .... grrrr ....

Marc Vaughan · 12-06-2005, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

fuckers. i hope you sent them back virus-loaded savegames to destroy their HD's!

No, because that'd be illegal ... and a bit ott besides (two wrongs don't make a right and all that

).

clownof2003 · 12-06-2005, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

However, when some clown with 3 posts from 2 years ago comes on here and tries to trade a game and I react, it is best to just deal with it. Push me too hard on this, and we'll have letter-of-the-law rules regarding piracy around here.

As I write this, I am sure to be banned again, but at least I can get one word in. I am the clown that SD decided to ban after asking to trade games. I appreciate those of you that came to the defense of a guy that no one knows. I feel that I have to try to explain myself...

I searched the forums to see if trading was allowed and found http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...ight=trade+tpf

the guy was not banned and the thread not locked, so I figured it would be okay. I never had any intention of stealing anything. I can show proof that the game I was giving up was unlicensed and I would have asked for the same from the other party. I do not see where my integrity came into question by SD. I simply wanted to have FOF instead of a game that I do not plan to play anymore. I am still unable to see what is wrong with that especially since we all have seen that the TPF and FOF EULAs do not forbid trading provided it is a "clean" trade and by that I mean licenses are fully given up.

Of course, I agree that SD overreacted by banning me. I wrote to him yesterday to ask to be allowed back after explaining my intentions. I was very disappointed to receive no response whatsoever from him which prompted this response from me.

If this is the last you hear from me, again, thank you for standing up for the little guy.

rkmsuf · 12-06-2005, 09:17 AM

technically he could unban you and then ban you again for creating another account while banned

but that would just be uncalled for

gottimd · 12-06-2005, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clownof2003

As I write this, I am sure to be banned again, but at least I can get one word in. I am the clown that SD decided to ban after asking to trade games. I appreciate those of you that came to the defense of a guy that no one knows. I feel that I have to try to explain myself...

I searched the forums to see if trading was allowed and found http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...ight=trade+tpf

the guy was not banned and the thread not locked, so I figured it would be okay. I never had any intention of stealing anything. I can show proof that the game I was giving up was unlicensed and I would have asked for the same from the other party. I do not see where my integrity came into question by SD. I simply wanted to have FOF instead of a game that I do not plan to play anymore. I am still unable to see what is wrong with that especially since we all have seen that the TPF and FOF EULAs do not forbid trading provided it is a "clean" trade and by that I mean licenses are fully given up.

Of course, I agree that SD overreacted by banning me. I wrote to him yesterday to ask to be allowed back after explaining my intentions. I was very disappointed to receive no response whatsoever from him which prompted this response from me.

If this is the last you hear from me, again, thank you for standing up for the little guy.

Whats that I hear in the distance, its faint, but it kind of sounds like an IP Address banning too?

Anthony · 12-06-2005, 09:24 AM

SkyDog should be IP banned.

jeff061 · 12-06-2005, 09:25 AM

He won't unban him because he thinks that would make him look bad and/or question his authority.

That's just the way his brain ticks. I'm surprised he hasn't started boxing detractors.

DanGarion · 12-06-2005, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff061

He won't unban him because he thinks that would make him look bad and/or question his authority.

That's just the way his brain ticks. I'm surprised he hasn't started boxing detractors.

He needs to just suck it up and admit he is wrong and fix the problem.

He needs to COWBOY UP!

GreenMonster · 12-06-2005, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dangarion

He needs to just suck it up and admit he is wrong and fix the problem.

He needs to COWBOY UP!

Knowing what little I know of SkyDog, he probably doesn't care and has bigger things in life to tackle like getting people to stop playing "faggotty joystick jockey games" or reading all the old EULA, so he doesn't commit another instance of computer fraud..

Coder · 12-06-2005, 09:41 AM

This is like thin ice and stuff!!!

vex · 12-06-2005, 09:48 AM

What would it hurt to give the guy another chance, seriously?

DanGarion · 12-06-2005, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vexroid

What would it hurt to give the guy another chance, seriously?

Integrity!

Daimyo · 12-06-2005, 11:26 AM

It takes integrity to admit when you're wrong.

sterlingice · 12-06-2005, 11:32 AM

Dear god. Are you people still droning on?

SI

Crapshoot · 12-06-2005, 11:38 AM

SD should admit his mistake here, and move on. He's done it, albeit rarely, in the past - so there is some hope.

st.cronin · 12-06-2005, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vexroid

What would it hurt to give the guy another chance, seriously?

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...=paroled+kills

Passacaglia · 12-06-2005, 11:53 AM

Man, don't you guys remember the Net Detective story? These threads used to be FUN!

DanGarion · 12-06-2005, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...=paroled+kills

Yes but this guy was wrongly accused of a law that doesn't even exist!

Chubby · 12-06-2005, 03:44 PM

we're all going to get it!

Cringer · 12-06-2005, 05:58 PM

Free the little man!! Free the little man!!!

Cringer · 12-06-2005, 05:58 PM

dola- I just realized I may get a 'penis' remark out of that. Not exactly the what I was going for.

RendeR · 12-06-2005, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cringer

Free the little man!! Free the little man!!!

Keep your penis to yourself Cringer

JonInMiddleGA · 12-06-2005, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

but that would just be uncalled for

Actually that would border on hysterically funny.

Senator · 12-06-2005, 11:21 PM

Look, it is best to let sleeping Skydogs lie.

SackAttack · 12-07-2005, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Actually that would border on hysterically funny.

Yet another reason I have difficulty finding any respect for you, Jon.

Why is it hysterically funny for SkyDog to ban somebody inappropriately and then ban them for creating a new account to defend themselves? It's not like SkyDog was allowing him to do so under his original account.

It was an unwarranted banning followed by a "I'm da boss, you bitches just better accept it" attitude.

But if you find that hysterically funny, more power to you.

DaddyTorgo · 12-07-2005, 01:24 AM

i'm far from the first to defend JiMG. But I think what he was saying was that it would be hysterically funny for SD to UNBAN the guy for the game-trading and then ban him for creating another account and posting on it while banned.

So he wouldn't be banned for the thing that we're all upset about, but he'd still be banned because he broke another rule?

Get it?

SackAttack · 12-07-2005, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i'm far from the first to defend JiMG. But I think what he was saying was that it would be hysterically funny for SD to UNBAN the guy for the game-trading and then ban him for creating another account and posting on it while banned.

So he wouldn't be banned for the thing that we're all upset about, but he'd still be banned because he broke another rule?

Get it?

Yes, I get it.

My point is that the rule only got broken because SkyDog behaved inappropriately in the first place. That doesn't make it funny to me. The rule violation in that case is purely because of SkyDog's inappropriate action, and would not have occurred independent of that action.

Whether or not SkyDog *should* unban/re-ban the guy for creating the duplicate account is another matter. Whether or not it's funny, on the other hand, is beyond dispute.

It wouldn't be cool, and it wouldn't be funny. It would be damn childish, and what respect I have left for SkyDog as a moderator after this would completely evaporate.

DaddyTorgo · 12-07-2005, 01:57 AM

fair enough. i think we just have different thoughts on JiMG's mindset when writing that. I picture you picutring him sitting there and cackling hysterically about how hysterically funny that would be, and how it would be "just desserts" in a manner of speaking. and i see him sitting there going "that would by hysterically funny in an ironic sort of way."

yeah you probably are closer to the truth than me.

JonInMiddleGA · 12-07-2005, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

It wouldn't be cool, and it wouldn't be funny. It would be damn childish, and what respect I have left for SkyDog as a moderator after this would completely evaporate.

And we all know that your respect is what makes everybody's world go 'round & 'round.

It'd be funny because, after the ridiculous amount of hoopla created over a situation that does not amount to a hill of beans in the first place, the guy screws up by breaking one of the more hard & fast rules the board seems to have ... rendering the whole conversation even more moot than it was before
(if that's possible).

DT pretty much got it on the first try

Quote:

So he wouldn't be banned for the thing that we're all upset about, but he'd still be banned because he broke another rule?

If you don't see the humor in that, fine & dandy by me, there's all sorts of senses of humor & no rule says ours have to match. But if that creates some sort of problem for you, you are cordially invited to go screw yourself for the umpteenth time.

Ragone · 12-07-2005, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I disagree that we aren't losing any sales through piracy a lot of the 'warez' crowd play FM for well over 30 hours play-time (I know because I've had 'support' save games sent to me which have markings indicating they've been created using warez versions).

This means that they're definitely enjoying the game and leads me to believe that is at least a slim chance that if they couldn't pirate it then they'd purchase it.

At the end of the day as I've indicated above if one in eight of those pirates purchased the game then it'd double the companies income, thats a heck of a change ...darn it if one in sixteen of them purchased then its still increasing SI's income by 50%.

I'm more then willing to admit i warezed the first copy of cm i owned (please don't ban me mr skydog

mainly due to the fact i had no credit card at the time and finding a place in america that sold it was... shall we say.. impossible. however i have purchased every one released ever since

But i defintely wouldn't have the gall to email them and ask for support of the product hah

Anthony · 12-07-2005, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragone

I'm more then willing to admit i warezed the first copy of cm i owned (please don't ban me mr skydog

mainly due to the fact i had no credit card at the time and finding a place in america that sold it was... shall we say.. impossible. however i have purchased every one released ever since

But i defintely wouldn't have the gall to email them and ask for support of the product hah

the only way you can properly repay Marc would be to cut off one of your testicles and offer it to him. only then would you be square with the house. anything less and you should be perma-banned.

Anthony · 12-07-2005, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And we all know that your respect is what makes everybody's world go 'round & 'round.

If you don't see the humor in that, fine & dandy by me, there's all sorts of senses of humor & no rule says ours have to match. But if that creates some sort of problem for you, you are cordially invited to go screw yourself for the umpteenth time.

are we...brothers?

Senator · 12-07-2005, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

are we...brothers?

At the very least he should have credited you for that comment. I thought you had formally trademarked it?

JonInMiddleGA · 12-07-2005, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

are we...brothers?

Long lost brothers of different mothers maybe?
(or, in our case, would that be different muthas?)

primelord · 12-08-2005, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

I'm really going to miss primelord and his real player files once he's banned.

Awww, I'm going to miss you too buddy.

12-06-2005, 09:17 AM	#319
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	technically he could unban you and then ban you again for creating another account while banned but that would just be uncalled for __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

12-06-2005, 09:25 AM	#322
jeff061 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: MA	He won't unban him because he thinks that would make him look bad and/or question his authority. That's just the way his brain ticks. I'm surprised he hasn't started boxing detractors. __________________ Last edited by jeff061 : 12-06-2005 at 09:26 AM.

12-06-2005, 09:41 AM	#325
Coder College Prospect Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Gothenburg, Sweden	This is like thin ice and stuff!!! __________________ IFL - Vermont Mountaineers ~ I am an idiot, walking a tight rope of fortunate things ~

12-06-2005, 11:32 AM	#329
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	Dear god. Are you people still droning on? SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

12-06-2005, 05:58 PM	#335
Cringer Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Edinburg,TX	Free the little man!! Free the little man!!! __________________ You Stole Fizzy Lifting drinks! You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and steralized, so you get NOTHING! You lose! Last edited by Cringer : 12-06-2005 at 05:59 PM.

12-05-2005, 12:47 AM	#307
SackAttack Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI	Of course not. Grandstanding is almost never followed by penitence.

12-05-2005, 07:36 AM	#312
randal7 H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Nov 2003	FWIW, on one of the side topics: Prior to purchasing FOF2K4, I e-mailed Solecismic thru the address on the Solecismic site. I asked if the game could be played on both my home and work computers, as this was a prerequisite for my purchase (my concern was "will both work?", not the legalities). The response, which I assume came direct from Jim, was that I would recieve 2 licenses and could in fact install on 2 computers for personal use. I'd attach the e-mail, but this was 2 years ago and it is long gone.

12-06-2005, 09:24 AM	#321
Anthony Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Astoria, NY, USA	SkyDog should be IP banned.

12-06-2005, 09:48 AM	#326
vex Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Tulsa	What would it hurt to give the guy another chance, seriously?

12-06-2005, 11:26 AM	#328
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	It takes integrity to admit when you're wrong.

12-06-2005, 11:38 AM	#330
Crapshoot Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Dec 2003	SD should admit his mistake here, and move on. He's done it, albeit rarely, in the past - so there is some hope.

12-06-2005, 11:53 AM	#332
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Man, don't you guys remember the Net Detective story? These threads used to be FUN!

12-06-2005, 03:44 PM	#334
Chubby Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Syracuse, NY	we're all going to get it!

12-06-2005, 05:58 PM	#336
Cringer Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Edinburg,TX	dola- I just realized I may get a 'penis' remark out of that. Not exactly the what I was going for. __________________ You Stole Fizzy Lifting drinks! You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and steralized, so you get NOTHING! You lose!

12-06-2005, 11:21 PM	#339
Senator FOFC's Elected Representative Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The stars at night; are big and bright	Look, it is best to let sleeping Skydogs lie. __________________ "i have seen chris simms play 4-5 times in the pros and he's very clearly got it. he won't make a pro bowl this year, but it'll come. if you don't like me saying that, so be it, but its true. we'll just have to wait until then" imettrentgreen "looking at only ten games, and oddly using a median only, leaves me unmoved generally" - Quiksand

12-07-2005, 01:24 AM	#341
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	i'm far from the first to defend JiMG. But I think what he was saying was that it would be hysterically funny for SD to UNBAN the guy for the game-trading and then ban him for creating another account and posting on it while banned. So he wouldn't be banned for the thing that we're all upset about, but he'd still be banned because he broke another rule? Get it?

12-07-2005, 01:57 AM	#343
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	fair enough. i think we just have different thoughts on JiMG's mindset when writing that. I picture you picutring him sitting there and cackling hysterically about how hysterically funny that would be, and how it would be "just desserts" in a manner of speaking. and i see him sitting there going "that would by hysterically funny in an ironic sort of way." yeah you probably are closer to the truth than me.

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