2005-06 Soccer Thread

[Galaxy]

I see Eddie Johnson was traded to Kansas City from FC Dallas today.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I see Eddie Johnson was traded to Kansas City from FC Dallas today.

And millions of KC non-fans refuse to care

[Dunleavy]

Real Madrid has supplanted Manchester United as the world's richest soccer club.

List of soccer's richest clubs

LONDON (AP) - The top 20 richest clubs, based on revenue, as listed by accountancy firm Deloitte in its independent "Football Money League" report released Thursday:

1. Real Madrid, Spain, €275.7 million (US$328.19 million).
2. Manchester United, England, €246.4 million (US$293.31 million).

3. AC Milan, Italy, €234 million (US$278.55 million).

4. Juventus, Italy, €229.4 million (US$273.08 million).

5. Chelsea, England, €220.8 million (US$262.84 million).

6. FC Barcelona, Spain, €207.9 million (US$247.48 million).

7. Bayern Munich, Germany, €189.5 million (US$225.58 million).

8. Liverpool, England, €181.2 million (US$215.7 million).

9. Inter Milan, Italy, €177.2 million (US$210.94 million).

10. Arsenal, England, €171.3 million (US$203.92 million).

11. AS Roma, Italy, €131.8 million (US$156.89 million).

12. Newcastle, England, €128.9 million (US$153.44 million).

13. Tottenham, England, €104.5 million (US$124.4 million).

14. Schalke 04, Germany, €97.4 million (US$115.94 million).

15. Lyon, France, €92.9 million (US$110.59 million).

16. Celtic, Scotland, €92.7 million (US$110.35 million).

17. Manchester City, England, €90.1 million (US$107.26 million).

18. Everton, England, €88.8 million (US$105.71 million).

19. Valencia, Spain, €84.6 million (US$100.71 million).

20. Lazio, Italy, €83.1 million (US$98.92 million).


numbers are based on match-day, broadcasting, and commerical revenue and dont take into account owners.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I see Eddie Johnson was traded to Kansas City from FC Dallas today.

I think long term its a great move by dallas...they have to expect eddie to go europe soon, and this way they get two allocations instead of one

[TazFTW]

Totti fractured his fibula and strained ligements in his ankle in a Serie A game and could miss the World Cup. The link to the story has a picture of the injury, so if you're squeamish it is probably not a good idea to read the story.

http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/5342892

[Desnudo]

In that same vein, Alan Smith had a horrific looking leg injury.

[terpkristin]

OH DAMN.

That looks like it hurt.

I'm shocked he only hurt the fibula.

Granted, when I did something like that, I only tore ligaments to shreds (no breaks, I drink my milk!).

/tk

[DaddyTorgo]

back when I didn't realize how much of a classless oaf he was Totti was one of my favorites. I would have been real sad then. Now I just say "well that's karma mothaf-er!"

[Wolfpack]

I didn't see the injury in the picture at first. I then read the caption that said "gruesome ankle injury". Looked a little more closely at the ankle and noticed that the foot was not where I thought it would be. It was over to the right some ways. Ouch.

[Katon]

Big blow for Italy if he misses the WC - he's been brilliant for Roma this year. Of course, he might've just gone nuts anyway, but there was also the chance he'd actually have a good tournament.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

back when I didn't realize how much of a classless oaf he was Totti was one of my favorites. I would have been real sad then. Now I just say "well that's karma mothaf-er!"

What did he do that's so bad? I'm asking because I know little of him beyond the fact that some of his quotes makes him sound roughly as underclued as Beckham.

[SirFozzie]

Totti spit at folks.

In other news, Ouch. Talk about a black eye for MLS, one they didn't need shortly after the Houston 1836 fiasco.

By Steven Goff
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, February 20, 2006; E03

D.C. United Coach Peter Nowak denied accusations yesterday that he made an off-color comment about a Real Salt Lake player during an MLS exhibition match Friday in Bradenton, Fla.

In an interview with Utah radio station KZNS, Real Salt Lake Coach John Ellinger accused Nowak of making "some inappropriate remarks" about rookie Atiba Harris, who is from the Caribbean island nation of St. Kitts and Nevis.

Real officials believe Nowak said Harris, who is black, should be "sent back to Africa." Asked on the radio broadcast if that's what Nowak said, Ellinger responded, "You're in the ballpark."

Reached in Florida, Nowak said: "I'm really, really hurt about people saying this. Everybody knows the history in my country [Poland], about human rights, the Germans, our struggle. Someone who accuses me of this is embarrassing."

United President Kevin Payne, who was sitting on the team bench during the game, said in a prepared statement: "The D.C. United personnel who were on the bench at the time, including me, heard no such comment nor anything like it."

Payne described the incident by saying: "In an angry response directed at the referee following the third reckless and dangerous tackle by a Real Salt Lake player, Peter did shout that the player needed to be 'sent back to hospital.' . . . The Real Salt Lake technical staff reacted, at that moment, as a group, apparently misunderstanding what Peter had said."

Harris, who is on a tryout during spring training, was assessed a yellow card early in the game.

United forward Jamil Walker said he was on the bench when the incident occurred.

"Peter was telling [United rookie Kenney Bertz] to get back at their player," Walker, who is black, said in a telephone interview. "The guy was big and reckless, and he shouldn't have even been in the game. When Kevin told me after the game what the Real guys were saying, I was like, 'That's funny because that's not what he said.' Everyone heard it."

Nowak speaks broken English and sometimes has to repeat himself in interviews with English-speaking reporters.

Ellinger, a Montgomery County native, was traveling yesterday and couldn't be reached for further comment, but a team spokesman said the club was considering filing an official complaint with MLS.

"Obviously it's heat of the moment and you are responsible for what comes out of your mouth," Ellinger said in the radio interview. "It's pretty discouraging for our players as well as his players."

Added Payne: "In our view, this incident is 100 percent a misunderstanding. Those people that know Peter know that such a comment would be completely at odds with his character."

[Desnudo]

Sounds like he didn't say it.

Although to correct the situation, they had to admit that he was telling his players to injure the other team.

[SirFozzie]

yeah, that be a whoopsie. They had to get out a story fast, the proposed site of DC's new stadium is in Ward 8, who's represented by Marion Berry (yes, THAT Marion Barry), and if they were seen to be dropping the ball on a racist comment..

Welllllllll... goodbye to any neighborhood cooperation.

[terpkristin]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

...Ouch. Talk about a black eye for MLS...Real officials believe Nowak said Harris, who is black, should be "sent back to Africa." Asked on the radio broadcast if that's what Nowak said, Ellinger responded, "You're in the ballpark."...

Odd, this is something that was said in a college basketball game recently. I don't remember which team, but remember hearing something about it briefly on PTI.

/tk

[Dunleavy]

Arsenal 1-0 !!!!!!!!!

i've been waiting for a performence like that all season, well played by the defense, the 5 midfielders were outstanding and Henry!!! Henry!!! DON'T GO!!!

[daedalus]

Okay, since the result is posted . . .

D. A. M. N.

Even as crappy as Real Madrid has been playing this season, I was not expecting to go into their stadium and take the game. Wow. Guess, even if he can't play in England, Reyes will always have something special for Real Madrid.

[Galaxy]

Anyone watching FC Barcelona-Chelsea on ESPN2?

[Katon]

Yes.

I hate the type of fan who's convinced that there's an official conspiracy to stop his team winning, and I really object to the way UEFA seem determined to turn me into one.

[Crapshoot]

According to the BBC commentary, the pitch is just ridiculous at Stamford Bridge. They can spend $300 million on players and can't lay a pitch (even when the window previously existed) ?

[Katon]

It's not that ridiculous by February-in-England standards. Or compared to Stamford Bridge the year before Roman. And yes, we could lay a pitch, but a) we haven't had a long enough spell without home games recently and b) last time we did that $18 million of player (figure approximate as I can't be bothered to look it up) broke his foot on it

[Crapshoot]

Katon,
by their own admission - there was a 2-week window where they had no games where they could have laid the pitch, and they declined to at the time. The timing, as it were, seemed awfully strange.

[Katon]

Looking at the schedule, you're right. They did.

On the other hand, the point about Scott Parker blaming his injury on the strips of the newly-laid pitch last year still applies. And honestly, how much do we really benefit? Since that two-week window, our home games have been against Liverpool (4-5-1 with Peter Crouch up front), Everton (who we slaughtered without playing too many long balls), Colchester (who actually were passing better than us for most of the match, to be fair), and Barca (who were playing it long as often as we were before the game got spoiled). The only time I can remember seeing the pitch foul something up in today's game, it was a potentially threatening combination between Gudjohnsen and Crespo.

[SirFozzie]

In one of the First games MLS teams will play this year (surely, one of the first two OFFICIAL games), the New England Revolution are in Bermuda, taking on LD Alajuelense of Costa Rica in the first round of the CONCACAF Champions Cup (The revs decided to play their home leg in Bermuda where they are training, rather then come back for this game).. in the only game NOT available on FSC in this whole round (even the 2nd leg will be available), it's 0-0 at Halftime.

[Desnudo]

That second half. All I can say is wow, I'm glad I tivo'd it. Ronaldinho is insanely good. Making world class players look like playschoolers. Sure Barca was up a man, but still.

[Katon]

I was more impressed by Messi actually, apart from the dive. MOTM after Terry, in my opinion. They were both damn good, though. And don't underestimate how important the extra man is. Being down to ten men meant that we couldn't press the ball or get any useful number of people forward without leaving some fairly large open space in our half - which is suicide against a team as good offensively as Barca. Barca were great, but the ref completely killed our ability to try and match them. It wasn't particularly funny the first time and it's getting pretty damn old by now.

[Desnudo]

I didn't see the first half, but he did let a clear penalty on Terry go in the second. First he runs straight over Messi and then he handles the ball.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

That second half. All I can say is wow, I'm glad I tivo'd it. Ronaldinho is insanely good. Making world class players look like playschoolers. Sure Barca was up a man, but still.

I wish I had now - following it on BBC, it was like having a heart attack.

[SirFozzie]

Full time in Bermuda, 0-0.. so the Revs need at least a draw (no away goals rule in this tournament)

[Katon]

That was probably a penalty, yes. There might be a case Messi was obstructing Terry - not sure of the exact wording of that rule - but that was a mistake in Chelsea's favor.

Against that:

- It appears he applauded the Barca fans before kickoff. Didn't see it myself, as I wasn't watching yet, but that and the whole 'close friends with Anders Frisk' thing really don't help suggest a fair refereeing setup

- On to actual calls, that red was completely indefensible. Yellow maybe; red was a joke. And that, in and of itself, was a game-changing decision. We've played Barca 11v11 for one full match and two partial matches over the past yearish; those games have ranged from being essentially even to our being the better team. We've played them 10v11 for two partial matches adding up to about 90 minutes; except for the first ten minutes of the second half today, they've slaughtered us both times. Barca deserved to win on the balance of play, but it's not exaggerating to say that the entire difference was due to Del Horno getting sent off.

- Robben got no protection. Oleguer should've been booked at some point for the fouls he kept putting in (he eventually got a card, but it was for holding on to the ball). Puyol should have walked; he committed a couple of yellow-worthy fouls in the second half, and that would have been two for him if he'd been called on it.

- Drogba getting called back for an illusory offside when he was racing Valdes to the ball.

- This actually worked both ways, but he gave several really bizarre corners (two to Barca, one to Chelsea).

And again, this is not the first time we've had this problem. After the amount of crap we've had to put up with from UEFA recently, it would at least be nice to lose in the CL because we genuinely couldn't match our opponents.

[Desnudo]

That call was textbook. That was two penalties, one for running over Messi and the other for handling the ball in the penalty area. Messi was clearly in a better position to play the ball and Terry ran straight over him. Granted it didn't look intentional, but that doesn't matter except on whether or not he should be carded also.

Like I said, I didn't see the first half. I agree on the Drogba offsides, although that was the linesman making the call. Plus we all know Drogba would have skied it into Row Z anyway. Drogba, who also should have scored on another clear chance anway.

[Katon]

Like I said, that was a mistake in Chelsea's favor.

The other penalty wasn't. Geremi was turning away from the ball when it was struck two yards away from him. It clearly hit his hand, but it also has to be intentional to be a penalty, and it pretty clearly wasn't. Plus that was from one of the absurd corners.

It's true that the Drogba offsides was the linesman (and probably true that he would've missed it anyway), but that wasn't really the center of my complaints. If you let us keep Del Horno *and* send off Puyol, we're probably favorites to win the tie right now; one or the other, and it's even; screw both up, and we're going to need to be at our best to salvage this. And this after everything we had to deal with last year, too.

[Desnudo]

My favorite commentary was when the Irish guy said, paraphrased, "you know, I'd have to say that I think Eto'o is a better striker than Drogba.

[tanglewood]

The sending off was an absolute joke. I was wondering if the ref was going to book him or let him off and was completely shocked when he produced the red card. Ridiculous decision.

As for the other decisions, the Trry challenge was a good shout for a penalty, would need to see it again but I think it probably was, the Geremi handball was certainly not a penalty and generally in the second half the officials seemed to favour Barca.

I think it was a really good match to follow, Barca probably deserved to win in the endm, but I echo above comments that Del Horno getting sent off was crucial.

[Desnudo]

The Geremi handball, was that the play that led to the free kick goal?

[Katon]

Nope. It was off a corner at the end of the first half. The free kick goal came from a stupid foul by Carvalho.

I'd also agree that Barca absolutely deserved to win. They didn't give anything away early and when it came time to attack they were brilliant. But the thing is, we didn't lose because we couldn't match them. We didn't lose because the players didn't show up (except for Del Horno; what I would've given to have Bridge there). We lost because the ref unbalanced the match quite badly in their favour and they're too good a team to let that kind of advantage go.

[Critch]

Del Horno should have got a yellow for the tackle (Messi nipped the ball away and Del Horno's boot came through late and high, not an attempt to play the ball), he should have got a yellow for the rolling over faking death after the tackle. And he should have got at least a yellow for the knee high tackle on Messi before. So I've got no sympathy for him.

[TredWel]

Originally Posted by Katon

The other penalty wasn't. Geremi was turning away from the ball when it was struck two yards away from him. It clearly hit his hand, but it also has to be intentional to be a penalty, and it pretty clearly wasn't.

AFAIK (and I ref soccer, so I better well know), the player doesn't have to intentionally handle the ball for a penalty to be called. The only time you let handling go is if the player's hands/arms contact the ball while in a normal position, i.e. at their sides. The ball hitting your fully extended arm while your body is turning away is still handling, whether you meant it or not.

Overall, I was surprised by the poor overall officiating. Del Horno's tackle should have only been a yellow, and Messi should probably have been booked as well for leaping into Del Horno in the first place. Combine that with three missed penalties and some phantom corners, and I was surprised that the commentating team was calling this ref one of the best.

[Katon]

A yellow for the tackle before would have been fair, but if you do that then he probably takes a different approach to the later tackles (at least I'd hope so). As for the "rolling around faking death", it was a full-on collision (and Messi was actually jumping onto Del Horno, though I agree it was mostly Del Horno's fault). Those hurt. Not saying he didn't exaggerate it, but you'll see a lot of players go much further without getting called on it. That's not where the definition of simulation is at the moment.

I've got no sympathy for Del Horno - he didn't quite deserve a red, but he was running closer to getting carded than he ought to have been. The rest of the team, however, deserved a fair and even match against Barca. They missed out on that because the ref misplayed things badly.

[Katon]

Originally Posted by TredWel

AFAIK (and I ref soccer, so I better well know), the player doesn't have to intentionally handle the ball for a penalty to be called. The only time you let handling go is if the player's hands/arms contact the ball while in a normal position, i.e. at their sides. The ball hitting your fully extended arm while your body is turning away is still handling, whether you meant it or not.

Originally Posted by BBC Sport Football Laws & Equipment

In Fifa's Laws of the Game 2005, Law 12 says a free-kick or penalty will be awarded if a player "handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)".

Full article

here.

I grant you that an arm up before the ball is kicked is usually something of a grey area. But he was turning and his arms were turning with him before the ball was kicked. I really don't see, looking at the play, where you get 'deliberately' from, and the word is in the rule for a reason.

[TredWel]

Originally Posted by Advice To Referees On The Laws Of The Game

12.9 DELIBERATE HANDLING
The offense known as "handling the ball" involves deliberate contact with the ball by a player's
hand or arm (including fingertips, upper arm, or outer shoulder). "Deliberate contact" means
that the player could have avoided the touch but chose not to, that the player's arms were not in a
normal playing position at the time, or that the player deliberately continued an initially
accidental contact for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage. Moving hands or arms
instinctively to protect the body when suddenly faced with a fast approaching ball does not
constitute deliberate contact unless there is subsequent action to direct the ball once contact is
made. Likewise, placing hands or arms to protect the body at a free kick or similar restart is not
likely to produce an infringement unless there is subsequent action to direct or control the ball.
The fact that a player may benefit from the ball contacting the hand does not transform the
otherwise accidental event into an infringement. A player infringes the Law regarding handling
the ball even if direct contact is avoided by holding something in the hand (clothing, shinguard,
etc.).

Emphasis mine.

Granted, I was trained under the auspices of the USSF, and this is a USSF publication. FIFA may treat this differently, but the USSF has done their darndest to fall into line with FIFA in as many ways as possible.

[Katon]

Fair enough. Hadn't seen the exact wording before. For what it's worth, there was a penalty awarded to Barca in last year's tie that seemed to come off some pretty similar advice to what you have bolded (and it wasn't one of the bad calls I was griping about upthread).

After downloading an avi of the appeal, "not in a normal playing position" covers it quite nicely. The only question is whether his arm was up to protect his face (which would be fair game) or because he was being an idiot. I'm not entirely sure, honestly.

In any case, the whole play came about off one of the phantom corners, so there's a limit to how enthusiastic I can be about him not awarding a penalty against us from it.

Incidentally, above you mentioned you thought the ref missed three penalties. The Terry and Geremi ones are obvious; what was the third?

[TredWel]

I don't remember the exact details, but early on there was a Barca player who got away with handling in the box. It was the least egregious of the three missed penalties, but missed nonetheless.

[TazFTW]

I saw the game on ESPN2, it was probably the first time since the World Cup that I've seen Ronaldinho play. Only other times were in highlight clips like hxxp://www.youtube.com/?v=4VPdFKmNkOY

Very impressive. Although in the first half I felt Chelsea did a good job containing him (aside from a chance or two). It was only when they went a man down that he had the room to maneuver.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Critch

Del Horno should have got a yellow for the tackle (Messi nipped the ball away and Del Horno's boot came through late and high, not an attempt to play the ball), he should have got a yellow for the rolling over faking death after the tackle. And he should have got at least a yellow for the knee high tackle on Messi before. So I've got no sympathy for him.

This is how I saw it, except in the first case del Horno did play the play intentionally, but did so with the full knowledge and aim to carry on through to messi aftwerwards. It should have been a yellow through, and then the red card incident should have been a 2nd yellow (but as Katon says, if he was already on a card maybe he wouldn;t have carried out the challenge)

Their right back should have been booked for repeated fouling early-ish in the 2nd half, Puyol should have been booked for a challenge on Robben (I think it was Robben) when he was already on a yellow (can;t remember what for) and Droghba was onside (but you see these missed a lot, and he probably would have fucked it up anyway )

The Messi/Terry incident was in no way a penalty - Messi had a quick glance at Terry before contact to make sure he was in the way - definite obstruction. And I don't think the Geremi penalty was either.

But the one thing that pisses me off more than anything in this is how Mourinho can (correctly) accuse Messi of acting, yet defend Robben for his actions against Liverpool (when he went down as if being hit with a knockout punch after Reina put his hands on him and then pushed him away). This is the problem with diving - everybody is quick to castigate the opposition, but when they gain an advantage themselves, suddenly they see nothing wrong: until this hypocrisy stops we will still see over-acting and attempts to get players sent off.

(FWIW I think Reina should have gone anyway in that incident, a yellow for the tackle on Gudjohnsen and a yellow for raising his hands to Robben. Robben should have got at least a yellow for his actions)

[AlexB]

Dola,

Amazingly the only manager I can think of to criticise his own player for diving is the detestable Sam Allardyce, and the only reason he did so was because he felt the exaggerated dive meant they didn't get a pen - not exactly an overwhelming castigation of the ideology of diving...

[Butter]

I just knew after watching that game that the Chelsea fans would be complaining about the refereeing taking them out of the Champions League again. All I can say is that maybe, in truth, the Overlords of British Football just aren't quite up to it in the biggest of games.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

The Messi/Terry incident was in no way a penalty - Messi had a quick glance at Terry before contact to make sure he was in the way - definite obstruction.

Obstruction? He's in the Chelsea box with the ball about to land at his feet.

[bhlloy]

Messi/Terry was definitely not a penalty. Terry was trying to play the ball, Messi was obstructing him. At first I thought it was a stonewall penalty but watching the replay - not a chance. Terry's eyes were completely on the ball and Messi was just trying to get in his way and went down like a sack of shit.

The handball was a penalty IMO, maybe not deliberate but it's a shot on goal and his hand does not need to be out there at all. 80% of the time it is given, but after the red card that's a brave ref that makes that call. And no, I don't care what the wacky FIFA interpretation is

Red card was a joke but I missed the earlier challenge and only saw the red card incident on the half-time highlights. Either way, not a straight red. Sounds like the referee was a) covering up for his mistake in not booking Del Horno earlier or b) trying to make a name for himself. Either way is bad and he should be removed from further important tournaments. He was very poor for the second half as well, the Barca right back should have been sent off for numerous deliberate fouls on Robben.

[Desnudo]

Yes, I watched the close up replay and it's not as clear cut as he does appear to cut his run into Terry's path. It's hard to say whether or not he's positioning for the ball. He went down like a "sack of shit" of course because Terry ran over him at full speed. Not many players would be able to stand up after being hit full on the run. Personally, I think the English press would be screaming bloody murder if that had happened to Chelsea. Instead it's a dirty Argentine player who's at fault.