Superping-Jesus

[nfg22]

Originally Posted by nfg22

But why would a God that is all just and loving allow suffering and evil? If satan causes so much trouble why cant God simply kill him?

You idiot NFG22 you are making me mad . If there was no evil then our freedom of choice would be between good and good. So in essence there must be evil, which brings about sin, which brings about suffering.

[sachmo71]

Did you just quote yourself, AND call yourself an idiot? Are you part of the Holy Trinity?

Whooo...holy ghost! Oooooo!

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by druez

The way religion is taught now it promotes just another form of racisim or eliteism or some other kind of ism...... But, yes I think it would be a great idea to teach people about all the various religions.

Now, where would they be taught it? Good question there. Can't have religion in school. Not sure why not? I mean religion is just another social science, I think it would be a great idea to have a teacher who was well versed on many religions to educated students about all the different paths in life. We both know that would never happen, because religion is based on we are right and everyone else is wrong.

Oh wise one: If "religion is taught" so that it promotes racism, how then can you ask, "where would it be taught?" Are you saying that religious institutions are teaching racism? I would hate for you to be as fundamental in your assessment of religion as you claim religion is fundamental in their assessment of the non-religious. It is absurd, even vulgar, that all religions teach racism. If anything, your scope in judging all religions and all religious people cannot be complete. Just one example, the Vatican II said that the Holy Spirit is not confined to the Church, moreover infinite grace, is just that. The Church has no say in denying what and where the Holy Spirit does its thing, so neither should we.
Also, religions are taught in school. I just helped a friend put together her lesson plan for her unit on Islam for middle school kids. This unit is part of a larger world religion one that is mandated from the state.

[druez]

Originally Posted by nfg22

You idiot NFG22 you are making me mad . If there was no evil then our freedom of choice would be between good and good. So in essence there must be evil, which brings about sin, which brings about suffering.

NFG revision 2.

So you are saying that the only choices we get to make in life are between good and evil.... Not if I want vanilla or chochlate or I like redheads or blonds?

You still have a ton of indpendent will and descisions to be made even without a choice between good and evil.

Doesn't =

[druez]

Originally Posted by AENeuman

Oh wise one: If "religion is taught" so that it promotes racism, how then can you ask, "where would it be taught?" Are you saying that religious institutions are teaching racism? I would hate for you to be as fundamental in your assessment of religion as you claim religion is fundamental in their assessment of the non-religious. It is absurd, even vulgar, that all religions teach racism. If anything, your scope in judging all religions and all religious people cannot be complete. Just one example, the Vatican II said that the Holy Spirit is not confined to the Church, moreover infinite grace, is just that. The Church has no say in denying what and where the Holy Spirit does its thing, so neither should we.
Also, religions are taught in school. I just helped a friend put together her lesson plan for her unit on Islam for middle school kids. This unit is part of a larger world religion one that is mandated from the state.

It wasn't taught in the 80's and 90's in NJ where I grew up.

Anyway, the fundemental teachings of christianity are you except Jesus Christ as your savior or you goto hell. Its pretty cut and dry. Those that don't are not in gods grace and goto hell. The catholic religion doesn't allow female priests, hmm seems sexist to me.

[nfg22]

Originally Posted by druez

NFG revision 2.

So you are saying that the only choices we get to make in life are between good and evil.... Not if I want vanilla or chochlate or I like redheads or blonds?

You still have a ton of indpendent will and descisions to be made even without a choice between good and evil.

Doesn't =

Yes but this thread isnt discussing the freedon of choice for ice cream? It is duscussing Jesus. Also I was referring to why an all loving God would let evil be around. God made us so we can make the choice between Him and all that isnt Just and wholesome.

[AENeuman]

druez, because religion was not taught to you, it must not have been taught.... because some christians are fundamental racist, it must be racist... because the Vatican does not allow women priest, Catholics must be sexist.
I'm not sure you understand stand my meaning of grace. you make it seem that grace is conditional, which if it was it would no longer be called grace.
I would agree with you that if Chirstians believe in Jesus in order to prevent themselves from going to hell or to get into heaven then their beliefs are worthy of your vennom. Again, the concept of grace is what gets one into heaven, whatever that may be. You seem to have a great dislike for the institutions, and their versions of God. Seems to me you could believe in God that does not contain any of those things that you dislike, racism, sexism, etc..

[druez]

Originally Posted by AENeuman

druez, because religion was not taught to you, it must not have been taught.... because some christians are fundamental racist, it must be racist... because the Vatican does not allow women priest, Catholics must be sexist.
I'm not sure you understand stand my meaning of grace. you make it seem that grace is conditional, which if it was it would no longer be called grace.
I would agree with you that if Chirstians believe in Jesus in order to prevent themselves from going to hell or to get into heaven then their beliefs are worthy of your vennom. Again, the concept of grace is what gets one into heaven, whatever that may be. You seem to have a great dislike for the institutions, and their versions of God. Seems to me you could believe in God that does not contain any of those things that you dislike, racism, sexism, etc..

You must be new to this thread. I went into my beliefs about 5 pages ago "hehe" . Anyway, yes I don't have a problem with "God" or the constant as I call it. I have a problem with the various religions. I do believe in a higher power and I do believe its a personal relationship. I don't think you need to live by the rulebooks put down by the various faiths. Everyone knows the rules inside themselves...

[nfg22]

Originally Posted by druez

You must be new to this thread. I went into my beliefs about 5 pages ago "hehe" . Anyway, yes I don't have a problem with "God" or the constant as I call it. I have a problem with the various religions. I do believe in a higher power and I do believe its a personal relationship. I don't think you need to live by the rulebooks put down by the various faiths. Everyone knows the rules inside themselves...

Well you are right but the thing is think of it this way.

Do you believe that God is all knowing? and omnipresent?omnicent?

Well if you do then why would He let people be mislead by some book they say is from Him yet He isnt in it? I believe the Bible while written by man has many things that are Godly and we should loive according to what Jesus said. I dont always live that way but I should.

[AENeuman]

druez, as christopher walken said in "search and destroy": i'm enchanted with your optimism. while i think everyone may "know the rules inside themselves" that does not mean that we should be lawless. i fully see your point on dogma. i hate to think that we have to be threatened to do good, whether it's jail, hell, pain, etc.. this is a great tension, one may even say it's due to sin. but whatever it is i think if one looks at religion as being a source of inspiration and fulfillment, then without the focus on the threats and promises religion can be a good thing.

[fhasumi]

Originally Posted by Drake

Sure, storing data in waveforms doesn't make any sense. I've always been suspicious of those fiber optic cables that govern my T1 connection to the internet. In fact, I've pretty much decided that the line is likely full of little demons passing the packets back and forth. I knew computers were evil.

Here's a link for your edification

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/fiber-optic.htm

During my nap another question popped into my mind. How do you "store" information into an equation? It's an interesting concept. As a test, this morning I sat down with pen and paper and tried to store some tax-related information into the equation y = mx + b but to no avail.

Can you help me out? You don't have to explain it completely to me (I probably won't understand it anyways), just give me the fuzzy answer

[Schmidty]

This thread is like an "Idiot's Guide to Christianity" written by a dyslexic chimpanzee.

In honor of this thread, I'm going to start my own where I take all of your questions on quantum physics and my theories on dark matter.

[fhasumi]

That would be sweet! If you start it, I'll start the questions.

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by nfg22

You idiot NFG22 you are making me mad . If there was no evil then our freedom of choice would be between good and good. So in essence there must be evil, which brings about sin, which brings about suffering.

If God knows all, then there is no freedom of choice. Our choices have already been made. And if God will send me to hell for not accepting him...well, that just flat out doesn't make sense, because he created every part of my, including my brain, and within that, my thought structure.

When you really get down to it, it just doesn't make sense.

[tucker342]

no kidding...

If you break down any ideology, it won't make since...

religions especially

[Cuckoo]

Originally Posted by tucker342

no kidding...

If you break down any ideology, it won't make since...

religions especially

Are you trying to say it won't make sense? I really wish people would just admit that they don't know as much as they'd like to about a particular subject or religion instead of simply dismissing it outright as not making sense. That doesn't make any sense.

[fhasumi]

I'm still confused about the whole "storing information in an equation" and "sending information into another dimension"

Don't even think of asking me about religion.

[nfg22]

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

If God knows all, then there is no freedom of choice. Our choices have already been made. And if God will send me to hell for not accepting him...well, that just flat out doesn't make sense, because he created every part of my, including my brain, and within that, my thought structure.

When you really get down to it, it just doesn't make sense.

1. If God created you with the freedom of choice and you made the wrong choice then it is his fault? You chose the wrong thing. If he created you to make the right choice and only the right choice then you wouldnt really have that freedom would you. Now this doesnt negate your argument all the way but Im sure it all works out to where you are treated justly. because He is a just God.

2. God doesnt send you to hell for not accepting him. You go to hell because of seperation from God because he cannot be with sin. So when you accept His grace through His Son, then you can be with him because sin doesnt seperate you.

[nfg22]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

This thread is like an "Idiot's Guide to Christianity" written by a dyslexic chimpanzee.

In honor of this thread, I'm going to start my own where I take all of your questions on quantum physics and my theories on dark matter.

Thanks for the input. Tell me where this thread went wrong and how you would fix it oh "great one"

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by nfg22

Thanks for the input. Tell me where this thread went wrong and how you would fix it oh "great one"

Where do you want me to start???

Actually, I'm not going to. My advice is this: Plant seeds. Don't try to explain things which you don't fully understand.

[nfg22]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Where do you want me to start???

Actually, I'm not going to. My advice is this: Plant seeds. Don't try to explain things which you don't fully understand.

I dont fully understand everything but I do understand the thing that matters most. So i feel trhis thread helped alot more than it hurt. So start where you will.

[druez]

I liked the thread.

[Cuckoo]

I think both nfg and revrew have done a very fine job here. Keep it up guys. There are people out there who have legitimate questions, and you guys have a broad enough knowledge base to answer many of them.

[wig]

All this topic did for me was make me realize that religion is even more rediculous than I first thought.

[druez]

Wig, while I do agree with you for the most part. You could phrase it in a different way. I mean Bubba Wheels is a bit over the top. But Revrew, is a good example of a person who has faith but isn't condemning others IMO. But, I'm pretty much with you that Religion is pretty wacked in general.

[wig]

the topic leaders did a good job of answering questions and explaining. It's just the material they have to work with that's rediculous.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

If God knows all, then there is no freedom of choice. Our choices have already been made. And if God will send me to hell for not accepting him...well, that just flat out doesn't make sense, because he created every part of my, including my brain, and within that, my thought structure.

I covered this a little earlier on in either this thread ... here's a copy and paste:

* God knows the past, present and future of everything.
* God gives people free will, at this point he knows all of the possible past, present and futures that can occur - but individual free wills are as yet undetermined (in fact in my theory all possibilities happen as this removes any restrictions on Gods omnipotence, your free will is actually determining which of an infine number of realities which you are in - yeah I know this has gone a tad surreal now).

Bear in mind this is my personal interpretation of things and is most likely rubbish - but it makes sense to me

PS. There was a very bad CM based anology regarding this in my post earlier in this thread - read it at your peril

[revrew]

I'm going to go out on a limb here...
wig says the "material we have to work with" is ridiculous. I agree. The word ridiculous (quotes here mean I have my dictionary open on my lap) means "inspiring ridicule, absurd, preposterous." If it inspires ridicule, ridicule means "contemptuous laughter at or feelings toward a person or thing."

In my experience, my views, even especially on this board, are often met with "contemptous laughter" for being seen as "absurd." Cuckoo and nfgs affirmations aside, I could easily be left to wonder: why do people feel the need to laugh at, scorn, even "ridicule" these beliefs? Why is so much effort and energy poured into discrediting these beliefs as illogical? Why the widespread contempt for this particular set of beliefs? (Now, granted, with terrorism on the rise, Muslims get a lot of contempt as well, and with all the door-knocking, Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons get a fair share, too--but there is an odd correlation between Christianity and ridicule. Why?)

Rather than "quoting myself" (cute trick, nfg), I'll just answer my own question. The notion of an all-powerful God that is purely love and justice and goodness is absurd. Ever met anything or anyone else, ever, that fit that description? History's religions are filled with (as druez pointed out) jealous, angry, petty, selfish gods.

And then this God, rather than wiping out evil, decides to try to redeem it? That's ridiculous! Why not just wipe it out and start over? Why not just make it perfect? Sure, Christian, you give me this crap about God loving me too much to just wipe me out, but what is there about me that's so lovely this good God would allow many to suffer and die just so I had a shot? Bump me off, too, and be done with selfish humanity! It is ridiculous.

And then, this God comes as a gentle, suffering servant?? Who could believe that? Why not rock some mountains, speak in a voice heard round the world, COMPEL people to believe in him? To honor our free will and to establish a faith (that is not faith if so easily achieved)? What's the point of that? If you're God, just tell us! It is ridiculous.

*It's ridiculous precisely because when Jesus said, "The kingdom of God is at hand," he was referring to (among other things) a completely different view of reality. A worldview that accepts "I am the Truth" over "I can see the truth with my own two eyes." A worldview based on faith, trust, and invisible over the empirically provable. A worldview that says the greatest inevitable force in the universe is not death, but love.

If we judge Christianity by the human worldview it will always be absurd. Jesus didn't come to fulfill what would make sense to every human, but to give a new sense, a new worldview, a preposterous worldview based on a whole other set of truths.

It's like the Matrix. Judge it by what you see inside the Matrix, and this stuff about humans as batteries and mind-controlling machines is ridiculous. Who could believe that? But Jesus--the only man to live, die, then come back again (and he did it without a telephone line!)--says, "I've got two pills. Take one, and go back to your life inside your worldview. Take the other, and I show you just how deep the rabbit hole goes."

Maybe some of you do think I'm crazy, ridiculous. I can understand why. But I'll tell you this simply: "I'm talking to you from inside the rabbit hole."

[SplitPersonality1]

Originally Posted by revrew

Maybe some of you do think I'm crazy, ridiculous. I can understand why. But I'll tell you this simply: "I'm talking to you from inside the rabbit hole."

Good stuff rev.

[Bonegavel]

Originally Posted by revrew

--snip for brevity--
In my experience, my views, even especially on this board, are often met with "contemptous laughter" for being seen as "absurd." Cuckoo and nfgs affirmations aside, I could easily be left to wonder: why do people feel the need to laugh at, scorn, even "ridicule" these beliefs? Why is so much effort and energy poured into discrediting these beliefs as illogical? Why the widespread contempt for this particular set of beliefs? (Now, granted, with terrorism on the rise, Muslims get a lot of contempt as well, and with all the door-knocking, Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons get a fair share, too--but there is an odd correlation between Christianity and ridicule. Why?)
--snip for brevity--

Personally, I believe that whatever conclusion a person has come to in regards to this matter (soul, religion, etc) is great. Each one of us has to find his own answers and because it is something that can't be proven (like Valve software had the source code to Half-Life 2 stolen) it is a matter of personal belief.

A person that doesn't believe in the God of the bible, can't prove he doesn't exist, just like a christian can't prove that god exists. There isn't a formula like the one Homer created in the Simpson's (the episode where he had the crayon removed from his brain) that proves god doesn't exist. It just can't be done.

Had this discussion occured 15 years ago, my view point would have been completely the opposite. My road has been long and arduous, yet always thought-induced process. I don't take this stuff lightly because, frankly, my SOUL may depend on it.

The people laughing are flat out wrong to do so. That is elitism. "Ooh, i'm so smart because i don't believe in God and here is why... and you are such an idiot for believing in God and here is why..." Since it can't be proved either way (only speculation and theory) it is only an elitist that would look down upon another's religious belief (or lack thereof).

My mother is deeply religious and we discus this sort of stuff all the time. I don't ever mock my mother for her views. In fact, I'm rather jealous of her for being so convinced while I have lost my way. Especially after growing up going to church 4-5 times a week.

keep on keeping on revrew.

[druez]

Originally Posted by revrew

I'm going to go out on a limb here...
wig says the "material we have to work with" is ridiculous. I agree. The word ridiculous (quotes here mean I have my dictionary open on my lap) means "inspiring ridicule, absurd, preposterous." If it inspires ridicule, ridicule means "contemptuous laughter at or feelings toward a person or thing."

In my experience, my views, even especially on this board, are often met with "contemptous laughter" for being seen as "absurd." Cuckoo and nfgs affirmations aside, I could easily be left to wonder: why do people feel the need to laugh at, scorn, even "ridicule" these beliefs? Why is so much effort and energy poured into discrediting these beliefs as illogical? Why the widespread contempt for this particular set of beliefs? (Now, granted, with terrorism on the rise, Muslims get a lot of contempt as well, and with all the door-knocking, Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons get a fair share, too--but there is an odd correlation between Christianity and ridicule. Why?)

Rather than "quoting myself" (cute trick, nfg), I'll just answer my own question. The notion of an all-powerful God that is purely love and justice and goodness is absurd. Ever met anything or anyone else, ever, that fit that description? History's religions are filled with (as druez pointed out) jealous, angry, petty, selfish gods.

And then this God, rather than wiping out evil, decides to try to redeem it? That's ridiculous! Why not just wipe it out and start over? Why not just make it perfect? Sure, Christian, you give me this crap about God loving me too much to just wipe me out, but what is there about me that's so lovely this good God would allow many to suffer and die just so I had a shot? Bump me off, too, and be done with selfish humanity! It is ridiculous.

And then, this God comes as a gentle, suffering servant?? Who could believe that? Why not rock some mountains, speak in a voice heard round the world, COMPEL people to believe in him? To honor our free will and to establish a faith (that is not faith if so easily achieved)? What's the point of that? If you're God, just tell us! It is ridiculous.

*It's ridiculous precisely because when Jesus said, "The kingdom of God is at hand," he was referring to (among other things) a completely different view of reality. A worldview that accepts "I am the Truth" over "I can see the truth with my own two eyes." A worldview based on faith, trust, and invisible over the empirically provable. A worldview that says the greatest inevitable force in the universe is not death, but love.

If we judge Christianity by the human worldview it will always be absurd. Jesus didn't come to fulfill what would make sense to every human, but to give a new sense, a new worldview, a preposterous worldview based on a whole other set of truths.

It's like the Matrix. Judge it by what you see inside the Matrix, and this stuff about humans as batteries and mind-controlling machines is ridiculous. Who could believe that? But Jesus--the only man to live, die, then come back again (and he did it without a telephone line!)--says, "I've got two pills. Take one, and go back to your life inside your worldview. Take the other, and I show you just how deep the rabbit hole goes."

Maybe some of you do think I'm crazy, ridiculous. I can understand why. But I'll tell you this simply: "I'm talking to you from inside the rabbit hole."

I've enjoyed my conversation with you. I think everyone has a right to believe what they wish, its a personal relationship. My beef isn't with god or christians or muslims etc.... its with those who condemn me for having a different belief. I never got that feeling from you or Ng. Now bubba.... Anyway, good stuff and keep the faith!

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by nfg22

1. If God created you with the freedom of choice and you made the wrong choice then it is his fault? You chose the wrong thing. If he created you to make the right choice and only the right choice then you wouldnt really have that freedom would you. Now this doesnt negate your argument all the way but Im sure it all works out to where you are treated justly. because He is a just God.

LOL. But he created me, which means he created everything about me. Including my thought process. I thought God was perfect...wouldn't this mean he created something imperfect?

[nfg22]

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

LOL. But he created me, which means he created everything about me. Including my thought process. I thought God was perfect...wouldn't this mean he created something imperfect?

I guess it would mean that because we arent perfect. All I know is it isnt God's fault we sin. And He isnt sending you to hell because you wont believe in Him. He send people to hell because He cannot be with their sin which could be washed away by faith in His Son.


I was thinking of writing a FAQ about Christianity, Although it has already been done somewhat I would like to do one.

If you are looking for a good Non-Biased read on Christianity read the Case for Christ and the Case for Faith. The books were written by a hard nosed reporter that Thought his wife was wrong in what she believed and went out to find the truth.

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by nfg22

I guess it would mean that because we arent perfect. All I know is it isnt God's fault we sin. And He isnt sending you to hell because you wont believe in Him. He send people to hell because He cannot be with their sin which could be washed away by faith in His Son.


I was thinking of writing a FAQ about Christianity, Although it has already been done somewhat I would like to do one.

If you are looking for a good Non-Biased read on Christianity read the Case for Christ and the Case for Faith. The books were written by a hard nosed reporter that Thought his wife was wrong in what she believed and went out to find the truth.

Nah, that's cool. I went to Christian school for 13 years, and no one has been able to successfully convince me of anything.

Although I'm not saying there's no God...as there's a lot about our existance that we don't know anything about...but the God in the Christian Bible is hard for me to believe. He's perfect...but what he makes isn't. He sent his "son" (man-made characteristic if there ever was one) to die for us...and if you don't believe it (because humans by nature are curious, and don't just believe things they're told for no reason), you're going to hell!

It's not my fault God made my brain this way...I really can't help it.

[rexallllsc]

Sidenote: Why would a loving God allow so many wars to be fought over his name?

[AENeuman]

revrew, i'm writing a paper right now on tertullian's quote, "because it is absurd i believe" it's heavy stuff cuz it's getting into metaphysics, but still a blast (if your like me and like this stuff). what i like about the quote is that it shows the brilliance in simplicity and paradox; two things that this thread has struggled with.
most recent quote i came across from tert. was : heresies sprout from a grain of truth

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

Sidenote: Why would a loving God allow so many wars to be fought over his name?

How else would we know the difference between good and evil? Most of what humankind has throughout history has been motivated by sin.

[MJ4H]

revrew and BoneGavel. Two outstanding posts.

revrew, the way you have answered some questions in this thread and explained some concepts that I would have a difficult time explaining is very highly commendable. I am very impressed and thought I should send a long a note of appreciation. Good job.

[nfg22]

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

Nah, that's cool. I went to Christian school for 13 years, and no one has been able to successfully convince me of anything.

Although I'm not saying there's no God...as there's a lot about our existance that we don't know anything about...but the God in the Christian Bible is hard for me to believe. He's perfect...but what he makes isn't. He sent his "son" (man-made characteristic if there ever was one) to die for us...and if you don't believe it (because humans by nature are curious, and don't just believe things they're told for no reason), you're going to hell!

It's not my fault God made my brain this way...I really can't help it.

Again your not going to hell for your lack of faith, you go to hell because of your sins that separate you from God. The faith that could save you shows God's love.

[nfg22]

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

Sidenote: Why would a loving God allow so many wars to be fought over his name?

If God stopped all evil then there would be all good and we wouldnt have the choice between the two.

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

How else would we know the difference between good and evil? Most of what humankind has throughout history has been motivated by sin.

If I'm reading this correctly, God is making his point by having millions killed?

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by nfg22

If God stopped all evil then there would be all good and we wouldnt have the choice between the two.

LOL. This is getting comical. Do you're saying wars are good?

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by nfg22

Again your not going to hell for your lack of faith, you go to hell because of your sins that separate you from God. The faith that could save you shows God's love.

But the brain that God created for me doesn't allow me to "have faith"...it makes me question things. If someone told me that I'd have $1,000,000 by tomorrow...I wouldn't believe him. Now, that doesn't mean I wont have the $, but I can't just have blind faith in things because something might be true.

[nfg22]

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

LOL. This is getting comical. Do you're saying wars are good?

No im saying if God didnt allow evil things then only good would be left. So you couldnt choose to be corrupt and stray from God, because all that would be there is good. Now the reason we are here is to have freedom of choice. You cant have that freedom if you dont have a choice.

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by nfg22

No im saying if God didnt allow evil things then only good would be left. So you couldnt choose to be corrupt and stray from God, because all that would be there is good. Now the reason we are here is to have freedom of choice. You cant have that freedom if you dont have a choice.

So God is letting us have the choice, then damning you for making the choice. Sweeeeet.

[nfg22]

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

But the brain that God created for me doesn't allow me to "have faith"...it makes me question things. If someone told me that I'd have $1,000,000 by tomorrow...I wouldn't believe him. Now, that doesn't mean I wont have the $, but I can't just have blind faith in things because something might be true.

So it was God's fault that you chose not top follow Him? The facts are laid out and the choice is here. Beleive what you like and when you die you can complain to God.

[nfg22]

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

So God is letting us have the choice, then damning you for making the choice. Sweeeeet.

Wow...the 40th time typing this. God isnt sending you to hell for rejecting Him. It is the principle that you cant be with him because He is completely Just and cannot be with sin.

[Buccaneer]

rexall: Wars are what sinful man have done, still do and will continue to do to "solve issues". The only way there could be no more wars is to have no more sin. God is not a puppeteer, He gave us free will to choose. Some have chosen the most powerful weapon - prayer, while most others have not not.

"If my people shall confess their sins and turn from their wicked ways, I will heal your land"

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by nfg22

So it was God's fault that you chose not top follow Him? The facts are laid out and the choice is here. Beleive what you like and when you die you can complain to God.

Facts? Please show me one fact that proves that God exists. I personally don't know if he does or doesn't...but please let's get one thing clear: NO ONE KNOWS FOR CERTAIN.

[nfg22]

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

Facts? Please show me one fact that proves that God exists. I personally don't know if he does or doesn't...but please let's get one thing clear: NO ONE KNOWS FOR CERTAIN.

Maybe fallacy to you but you have seen what I have typed and when the time comes you will see.