The Official 2015-2016 NBA Regular Season Thread

[wustin]

Fun fact: No NBA team has ever gone 7-0 in 7 straight road games while away from home.

[Brian Swartz]

So the Warriors are obviously done now. They are just four games ahead of the rest of the NBA, are only on pace for a measly 79 wins now, and the magic number for making the playoffs is still 56 with over a quarter of the season gone by. They really need to get with it. In all seriousness ...

Originally Posted by Vince Pt. II

Good call. Bucks win!

Indeed. I thought the fatigue point was good initially, but still thought they'd get by Milwaukee simply due to the fact that I didn't think it was kind of team that would give them trouble. Wrong was I.

Originally Posted by whomario

As much as the Spurs are "struggling" on offense (aside from Aldridge still acclimating you also have Danny Greene basically shooting 30% from the field), their defense has been amazing.

This. Green is IMO the biggest problem. Read a blog analysis the other day that showed that he's basically getting the same shots as last year -- he's just not making them. Simmons is another young player that looks like he'll be a contributor(where do they keep finding these guys?) but I think the best version of the Spurs still has to include Green finding his shot due to the value of his defense. If he doesn't find it though, he's not going to be a starter by playoff time.

On the defense thing, a couple of points stand out. One, San Antonio has actually led for more fourth-quarter minutes than Golden State(which IMO makes the Warriors streak even that much more impressive -- they've had a number of games where they've just said oh ... this is a real game ... ok let's score 20 points here real quick and take the lead). Two, the record for Defensive Efficiency(since '96 when the NBA started tracking it) was San Antonio in '03 at 91.6. Last year, for example, nobody was under 98. Right now, the Spurs are at 91.9, with the caveat that it's been against a pretty darn weak schedule. But still, that's a rather astonishing 4.5 better than the rest of the league.

Right now, here's how I see the league:

1. Golden State(duh)

Big Gap. Strike that, make that enormous gap. As in the Brad Pitt 'Fifty Feet of Crap' scene from Moneyball, sized gap.

2. San Antonio(duh #2)

Moderate Sized Gap

3. Cleveland(when healthy)/Oklahoma City

Moderate Gap

4. Throw about a dozen others in the hopper here, depending on what happens.

Caveat: I'm almost always wrong about the NBA.

I'm still fascinated by the West's relative struggles, and how much parity there is right now. Right in the middle of it are my hometown Pistons. I think they could have homecourt for the first round of the playoffs ... or they could also finish 12th or so in the East. Or anywhere in between. 90% of the team I have no real clue if they are going to win or not. And that's without stuff like that ridiculous Barnes shot that somebody was kind enough to post a video of.

Very entertaining and unpredictable NBA season so far I think.

Originally Posted by wustin

Fun fact: No NBA team has ever gone 7-0 in 7 straight road games while away from home.

It'd be hard to do so in road games that weren't away from home. Yes, I'm a jerk sometimes :P

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

I'll be sorry to see that sort of crowd presence disappear on the road now that the streak is over.

The Warriors are still the No1 Team in the league and en route to the elusive 72 (or even 73) wins, i am pretty sure the target on their back will not be all that much smaller the rest of the way

[wustin]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Indeed. I thought the fatigue point was good initially, but still thought they'd get by Milwaukee simply due to the fact that I didn't think it was kind of team that would give them trouble. Wrong was I.

At this point I don't really think it matters which team it is (except for maybe the Sixers and Lakers), they're going to play very hard when it's against Golden State. Kinda like how in college sports when a top 25 school visits a mid major/unranked team.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Hard to see the Warriors winning tomorrow against the Bucks. Iguodala, Curry and Green played 44, 47, and 50 minutes respectively tonight, Thompson and Barnes are probably not playing, and it's the second half of a back-to-back at the end of a long 7-game road trip.

Yeah, no way you could expect a team to win a game 8 states away the next night after that epic game (Underrated advantage of having a deep team with no superstar - Celtics play phenomenally well on the 2nd half of regular season back to backs compared to the average NBA team.)

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

The crowd up there was amazing as well - it sounded like a soccer match with all the chanting and singing during the game. Fun to watch. I'll be sorry to see that sort of crowd presence disappear on the road now that the streak is over.

I wonder if any of that is left over from Bogut's initiative. Still one of the coolest things I've seen from an NBA player (of course an Aussie thought of it!) and something that should be done by every team who doesn't sell out most games. Energy is contagious and most people are followers... get the right 20-30 people in the right seats and you could change the entire dynamic of a 20,000 seat arena. It's tricking people into cheering more initially, but guaranteed they'd have a better experience overall.

Originally Posted by nol

Draymond Green may have breached the rare ceiling of being a top 30 player with his 24-11-8-5-5 performance tonight. Seriously though, in the last couple close Warriors games I've watched (Jazz and Celtics) he's wrestled a rebound away from a seven-footer when the game was in the balance. He's absolutely an all-star and I wouldn't blink if he was named first or second team all-NBA this season.

Originally Posted by nol

Last night's game is evidence that even if Klay isn't shooting lights out, the threat of him still opens things up offensively, but I don't think there are 5 players on the planet who could've stepped in for Draymond this season and kept the Warriors undefeated to this point.

Unless I'm blanking on someone, between his ability to play both sides of the pick and roll, rebound, make the right decision every time on 4v3's once teams double Curry, and hit open 3's there aren't 5 players on the planet who could fill Draymond's role, there's one, and his name is LeBron. (Maybe Paul Millsap? Boris Diaw if he actually worked out? Maaaaaaaybe Chris Bosh? Could Anthony Davis pull it off?) Not to mention the effect his swagger and cockiness has on his teammates - I watched Steph Curry at Davidson and his first couple years on GS, even the first half of last season, and while I don't want to say he was meek, he was kind of a nice guy/silent assassin. He's started acting like a cocky dick these last 12 months, and I put 10% of that on being MVP/healthy and 90% on being best friends with Draymond.

As far as whether that makes Draymond top 20, top 30, or a "max player" I don't know. I do know he's a perfect fit with those teammates in that system, and wouldn't be nearly as good on a number of NBA teams. But really how many players transcend teammates and system... Curry, LeBron, Durant, motivated DeMarcus Cousins, I want to say Anthony Davis but his net numbers were shockingly bad when missing any competent perimeter player early this year... Kawhi/Paul George? Jimmy Butler? Chris Bosh. Russell Westbrook. Millsap/Horford? Maybe CP3 and Blake Griffin if they stopped being such bitter old men? Healthy Kyrie??? (Triple question mark there because I legitimately forget what healthy, ball-dominant Kyrie looks like.) Kyle Lowry?

Biggest question about naming him all-NBA is what position you throw him under. Does he really qualify as a center?

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

the record for Defensive Efficiency(since '96 when the NBA started tracking it) was San Antonio in '03 at 91.6. Last year, for example, nobody was under 98. Right now, the Spurs are at 91.9, with the caveat that it's been against a pretty darn weak schedule. But still, that's a rather astonishing 4.5 better than the rest of the league.

Team Season Finder | Basketball-Reference.com

Originally Posted by whomario

The Warriors are still the No1 Team in the league and en route to the elusive 72 (or even 73) wins, i am pretty sure the target on their back will not be all that much smaller the rest of the way

Players-wise, no. Fan-wise, yes. I was getting texts from my mom about the game. Figured I'd be be the asshole hanging out and watching the game in the corner at the holiday party and instead the girl I picked up demanded to know if the game would be on before agreeing to go... It had legitimately gone beyond something casual/fairweather fans were excited for and crossed into the cultural zeitgeist here in Boston. I heard it was the highest rated regular season game since 1990 when Larry Bird was playing Magic Johnson in one of these games.

[wustin]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Biggest question about naming him all-NBA is what position you throw him under. Does he really qualify as a center?

He would be a small forward. If he keeps up the way he's been playing, he'll probably make it to 3rd team all-NBA. His competition would be Lebron, George, and Durant.

Another fun fact: Draymond is ranked in the top 10 (8th) for total assists in the Big Ten conference. He's the only big man among those 10 players. Kinda crazy how he dropped to the second round given he was a statsheet stuffer in college as well.

I looked up his draft profile from 2012. Wonder how much this was wrong because of poor scouting or Draymond just improved a shit ton.

Originally Posted by nbadraft.net

Weaknesses: One of those great college basketball players that doesn't excel in any one particular area ... Tweener, undersized for a physical forward yet lacks the athleticism of a wing ... Lacks explosiveness, agility, elusiveness and quickness off the bounce ... Under the rim finisher, which is troublesome when you consider his size ... Not a threat to shake his defender off the dribble ... Minimal upside ... Vulnerable defending quicker guards on the perimeter ... Could stand to drop some weight ...

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by wustin

He would be a small forward. If he keeps up the way he's been playing, he'll probably make it to 3rd team all-NBA. His competition would be Lebron, George, and Durant.

Another fun fact: Draymond is ranked in the top 10 (8th) for total assists in the Big Ten conference. He's the only big man among those 10 players. Kinda crazy how he dropped to the second round given he was a statsheet stuffer in college as well.

I looked up his draft profile from 2012. Wonder how much this was wrong because of poor scouting or Draymond just improved a shit ton.

I would think that part of his evolution as a player is the team and system he found himself in. Remember, coming in to last year, David Lee was still the starter, and Draymond filled in the spot when Lee was out for a considerably amount of time. Steve Kerr's decision to really groom Green last year really did wonders. Would Draymond have ever been given the opportunity to grow as a player in any other situation?

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by wustin

He would be a small forward. If he keeps up the way he's been playing, he'll probably make it to 3rd team all-NBA. His competition would be Lebron, George, and Durant.

Really? When does he ever play with 2 teammates bigger than him? As far as classical positional breakdowns even matter these days he's either a 4 or a 5 for his team. And of course the real answer is that he's one of the prototypes for that future Jerry West? foresaw where everyone would be 6'8 and positionless.

(Btw, when will we stop referring to player's height and start referring to their wingspan?)

I looked up his draft profile from 2012. Wonder how much this was wrong because of poor scouting or Draymond just improved a shit ton.

He did lose some weight/turn some fat into muscle and put in a shit ton more time than the average player in the film room, but it is fascinating. He really doesn't stand out in one area, he is shorter than, alhough not undersized for a "physical forward" (again, wingspan > height). Lacks the athleticism of wings or defending quicker guards is hilariously wrong (even if you assume that profile considered him a 3, not the post player he is). But while he can destroy any defender he has an angle on due to his understanding of leverage and that low center of gravity, he really isn't a threat to initiate against a set defender. He does have an extremely low release near the rim for his size, which is enormously concerning, but just like Isaiah Thomas he's somehow that 1 in a million that can still make it work at the NBA level. He definitely could stand to drop some weight (and did).

The other part of it is that this wasn't a gradual growth and coming out over a period of years. Not like a Serge Ibaka/Blake Griffin where he turned himself into a better mid-range shooter every year, or a Steph Curry where you could see progress on his handle every passing year. Or even a Hassan Whiteside where the raw talent was always there but he just screwed his head on right (we think). Even Steve Kerr and the Warriors GM admitted last June after winning the title they had no idea how good Draymond was that training camp - even after he'd been in the organization for 2 years. He was supposed to play 20-25 minutes, mainly with the 2nd unit, then David Lee got hurt, Draymond stepped in, and he really was close to this good from day 1 in that starting lineup. The Celtics traded Rajon Rondo to the Mavs, Brandan Wright was supposed to be the prize but then Jae Crowder turned out to be the best player of the 3. And before Celtics fans get too cocky, the guy we threw in to balance rosters, Dwight Powell, is a real rotation player for the Mavs this year too! Really makes you wonder just how much talent has been wasted at the end of NBA benches. (Jeremy Lin's another great example.)

It's also not entirely that they were wrong about his strengths and limitations (other than the idea he couldn't guard perimeter players). It's that what makes you good in the 2015, pace and space NBA, is so much different from what people were looking for even 3-4 years ago before that playoff run with LeBron at the 4 really opened eyes. And it's not like that re-invented the wheel (remember the lockout Knicks that made a run to the NBA finals after Ewing got hurt with Marcus Camby as the 5?) but people were willing to accept things they weren't before. Suddenly having certain elite skills becomes less effective when teams can overload defenses. With the increased emphasis on creating and then exploiting matchups, suddenly being average+ at everything like Draymond became much more valuable. Just how good would prime Kobe even be in today's NBA? Or Steph Curry back when they could handcheck on the perimeter? (Even the people in the center of the NBA world are fascinated by the question.)

[Vince, Pt. II]

Yeah, Draymond is a 4. He literally never plays the 3 for the team. Harrison Barnes is the starter at SF, and Brandon Rush has been starting (poorly) while he's out.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Question for those who watched the Warriors game last night:

I'm obviously biased, but the upgrade of Klay Thompson's offensive foul to a flagrant 1 last night (I think in the third quarter?) seemed somewhat ridiculous. Am I wrong?

[wustin]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Yeah, Draymond is a 4. He literally never plays the 3 for the team. Harrison Barnes is the starter at SF, and Brandon Rush has been starting (poorly) while he's out.

He's listed as the 4 on the lineup, but we all know he's a point-forward.

Paul George is listed as the 4 for Indiana, does that actually make him a power forward? No.

Originally Posted by 1

Question for those who watched the Warriors game last night:

I'm obviously biased, but the upgrade of Klay Thompson's offensive foul to a flagrant 1 last night (I think in the third quarter?) seemed somewhat ridiculous. Am I wrong?

Anytime the head is striked, it's flagrant. The degree of the flagrant foul is subjective. Since it was unintentional it was a flagrant-1. I think a flagrant-2 gets you ejected.

[Zinto]

Originally Posted by wustin

He's listed as the 4 on the lineup, but we all know he's a point-forward.

Paul George is listed as the 4 for Indiana, does that actually make him a power forward? No.

Does Draymond ever play the 3? I really do not think so. He is a 4 who can play the 5 during six or so minute stretches. Paul George on the other hand plays with two other bigs for stretches and doesn't guard the other teams 4.

If you are starting a NBA team how many power forwards go before Draymond? I really don't think very many do. Davis for sure but who else definitely goes before him. He changes your team with his defense and passing.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by wustin

Anytime the head is striked, it's flagrant. The degree of the flagrant foul is subjective. Since it was unintentional it was a flagrant-1. I think a flagrant-2 gets you ejected.

I didn't realize that (and the Warriors play-by-play didn't say anything like this during the broadcast). Makes sense.

[nol]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Unless I'm blanking on someone, between his ability to play both sides of the pick and roll, rebound, make the right decision every time on 4v3's once teams double Curry, and hit open 3's there aren't 5 players on the planet who could fill Draymond's role, there's one, and his name is LeBron. (Maybe Paul Millsap? Boris Diaw if he actually worked out? Maaaaaaaybe Chris Bosh? Could Anthony Davis pull it off?)

Well I just said 5 to be excessively conservative, just like when I said Green was one of the top 30 players over the summer when he was closer to top 15 in my view. You could certainly say he's the only one who could play that role because LeBron wouldn't care as much about the regular season, but you could probably figure out a slightly different way to play and be similarly effective with players like Durant or Kawhi in Green's place.

For All-NBA purposes, he would be first team if you called him a center, but as a forward (no difference between 3 and 4) he'd have to be ahead of one of LeBron, George, Leonard, and Durant to make the 2nd team.

Originally Posted by wustin

At this point I don't really think it matters which team it is (except for maybe the Sixers and Lakers), they're going to play very hard when it's against Golden State. Kinda like how in college sports when a top 25 school visits a mid major/unranked team.

Phrased differently, the Warriors are so much better than everyone else that all teams are more or less equally (un)likely to beat Golden State on a given night.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by nol

Well I just said 5 to be excessively conservative, just like when I said Green was one of the top 30 players over the summer when he was closer to top 15 in my view. You could certainly say he's the only one who could play that role because LeBron wouldn't care as much about the regular season, but you could probably figure out a slightly different way to play and be similarly effective with players like Durant or Kawhi in Green's place.

LeBron doesn't need to care and he's still better (and could up his intensity for those big games/4th quarters as needed.) I picked Cleveland as one of my under picks for exactly that reason, but he's still dragging them to the 3rd best record in the NBA and they're running out Matthew Dellevadova, Jared Cunningham, and Richard Jefferson at times in crunch time.

I'm also imagining a Steph Curry/KD pick and roll Although, interestingly, OKC might be better with KD not in the P&R, running that Westbrook/Ibaka one with KD sucking up a ton of attention away from the ball. (And if you want to talk about "small-ball 4's", and seeing what LeBron and Paul George have done when in that role, it's great to finally see OKC using KD in that role too.) OKC somehow doesn't play their 1st game vs GS until February, but it'll be fascinating to see if OKC plays some of their own smallball vs the Warriors or if they just try to go big.

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I'm still fascinated by the West's relative struggles, and how much parity there is right now.

Agree completely on your tiers and read on the Pistons (although I still don't understand why hack-a-Drummond isn't more prevalent - he's the midst of another 6 game streak with 6 or fewer FT attempts). Just to put some numbers to this, the Eastern Conference has won 50% of their games vs the West once since the turn of the century (2009 with 50.5%), and actually never topped 48.6% again. They're currently 72-70 (despite GS/SA being 19-4).

[BishopMVP]

Oh, wow. So I saw the game where Rajon Rondo got ejected for staring down a referee, then kind of went off. It seemed a little weird at the time, but you know, it's Rondo - he's a weird dude who used to go on his free time to children's hospitals and YMCA's to cheer up kids, but would never let a single kid actually beat him in Connect Four.

So anyway, that referee (Bill Kennedy) is gay, which is well known in NBA circles. And Rondo was calling him a faggot. And now Bill Kennedy's issued a public statement saying he's gay (which again, was well known, but why bother putting a press release out before?). So it'll be interesting if this leads to a longer suspension for Rondo or what other effects it has.

[wustin]

That would be ridiculous if Rondo gets a longer suspension.

Call a referee a faggot, get 1 game suspension. He happens to be gay? 1+X games then. If there's any additional punishment, I bet it will be because the NBA will be pressured to do it.

[molson]

If you're intending to intimidate/harass someone specifically because of their sexual orientation, I'd say that's worse than throwing around random gay slurs just because you're insensitive and immature generally.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by molson

If you're intending to intimidate/harass someone specifically because of their sexual orientation, I'd say that's worse than throwing around random gay slurs just because you're insensitive and immature generally.

Exactly. I remember getting in an argument here along these lines a few years ago because I didn't think personally using the word fag was a big deal as long as it wasn't intended as a gay slur. I realize now as I'm more mature that I was wrong (and shoutout to others like Quiksand and I forget who else, who were willing to have that argument because that discussion and reflection on it did at least accelerate a change in my behavior), but I still believe in this part of it.

Plenty of people who aren't homophobic throw the term faggot around, but specifically targeting it towards a person you know is gay is an entirely different level. Just like 2 black friends calling each my nigga is different than a white person in a confederate flag shirt. Context and intent matters.

In this specific case I actually partly agree with wustin in that, like the Ray Rice case, Rondo should have been punished more initially but shouldn't get more now. I definitely disagree with the other part of his post, but it is why I mentioned twice how Bill Kennedy's sexual orientation was well known. It wasn't "public knowledge", but it would be hard for me to believe that Rondo did not know he was gay.

[wustin]

I chalk it up to an emotional burst. When you're out to compete, adrenaline is pumping, emotions flare, you tend to be impulsive. I'd rather not make any conclusions based on anecdotal evidence until Rondo makes a statement.

[Groundhog]

I'm not inclined to give Rondo the benefit of the doubt with his track record of being an asshole.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by wustin

I chalk it up to an emotional burst. When you're out to compete, adrenaline is pumping, emotions flare, you tend to be impulsive. I'd rather not make any conclusions based on anecdotal evidence until Rondo makes a statement.

Whether Rajon Rondo is homophobic is something only he knows, and to be clear I have no idea if he is, and know plenty of people who are not throw that word around. But "I'm not homophobic, I just cynically used something personal I knew would hurt another person." doesn't excuse his actions.

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

OKC somehow doesn't play their 1st game vs GS until February

Did a little more checking on GS's schedule. They only play SA once (Jan 25) before late March too. Cleveland obviously on Christmas, then a rematch a month later. The NBA definitely backloaded the Western Conference powers matchups - SA & OKC also have 3 of their 4 meetings Mar 12 on (and the one they had was opening night.) I get it in general, but if SA has 3 matchups vs GS/OKC in their last 5 games, what are the odds both teams will be playing 100%?

Weird note I'd also forgotten about - who was the one team before Boston that took GS to OT?

Spoiler

Brooklyn, in Golden State. It was a Saturday night, and game 11 before The Streak had become a thing.

[Groundhog]

Not taking anything at all away from GSW's achievement with that streak, but without looking at their schedule I'd struggled to remember a big matchup for them this season.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Weird note I'd also forgotten about - who was the one team before Boston that took GS to OT?

Spoiler

Brooklyn, in Golden State. It was a Saturday night, and game 11 before The Streak had become a thing.

And if Brook Lopez had hit the bunny as time expired there wouldn't have been a streak.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Not taking anything at all away from GSW's achievement with that streak, but without looking at their schedule I'd struggled to remember a big matchup for them this season.

Same here. After the two Clippers games, I feel like @ Toronto (because they played them close early at GS) then @ Boston (partially because we're good, partially because it was the tail end of a long road trip) were the next two biggest in people's minds. This is projecting a lot, but I think New Orleans, Memphis, Chicago, Phoenix, Utah were all teams people thought would be better before the season I don't think were real threats when they played.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by wustin

That would be ridiculous if Rondo gets a longer suspension.

Call a referee a faggot, get 1 game suspension. He happens to be gay? 1+X games then. If there's any additional punishment, I bet it will be because the NBA will be pressured to do it.

It would probably be easier if the team suspends him rather than the league. You can't be a league that paraded you first openly gay player and then allow those things to be said. The league, much like the NFL, blew it.

The league was quick to take action in the Clippers situation but have probably opened them up to a lawsuit (if someone chooses) because I'm sure it falls under harassment laws. You can say they get harassed by players all the time but if you do this in any other billion dollar corporation you don't get a 1 day suspension from work.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

It wasn't "public knowledge", but it would be hard for me to believe that Rondo did not know he was gay.

Definitely wasn't public knowledge, 'cause I didn't have the slightest idea about it. (I'm not an NBA superfan my any means but I follow it casually enough to figure I'm a decent threshold for whether it was a very public thing)

But that said -- mostly as a general observation -- is it really that impossible to think an athlete could remain clueless about something these days?

I'm thinking of this in terms of how college athlete X has no idea who a guy from even 20 years ago is, or how somebody like Rondo who appears to be sort of quirky (like the Connect Four thing) might actually be fairly oblivious to any number of things around him.

And nope, haters, this is not any attempt to defend Rondo or get into politically correct speech issues or anything remotely like that. It's entirely about how there do seem to be people who are extremely disconnected from stuff around them & how it might not be inconceivable that he (or any other person in the league) simply didn't have any idea. That it just never came up around them basically, or they weren't paying the slightest bit of attention when it did. I don't really get that level of disconnect but I do see it often enough that it wouldn't be THAT odd.

(Or is there a suggestion that the refs orientation is a topic of conversation in every NBA locker room at some point?)

[murrayyyyy]

I wouldn't say it was the deepest secret in the NBA.

Disgraced former NBA referee Tim Donaghy alleged in a 2010 interview that Kennedy was gay and “had no love for Doc Rivers and the Boston Celtics,” because of a comment Rivers allegedly made about Kennedy’s sexual orientation. Rondo, obviously was a member of that Celtics team.

Donaghy Claim: Bill Kennedy’s sexuality at root of hatred for Doc | Red's Army - The Voice of Boston Celtics Fans

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

I wouldn't say it was the deepest secret in the NBA.

Disgraced former NBA referee Tim Donaghy alleged in a 2010 interview that Kennedy was gay and “had no love for Doc Rivers and the Boston Celtics,” because of a comment Rivers allegedly made about Kennedy’s sexual orientation. Rondo, obviously was a member of that Celtics team.

Donaghy Claim: Bill Kennedy’s sexuality at root of hatred for Doc | Red's Army - The Voice of Boston Celtics Fans

So this has been out there for like five years now ... and I'm hearing about it for the first time?

Amazing how not making a big deal out of something makes it be not a big deal.

(Yeah, THAT could be construed as social commentary I suppose, sue me)

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Definitely wasn't public knowledge, 'cause I didn't have the slightest idea about it. (I'm not an NBA superfan my any means but I follow it casually enough to figure I'm a decent threshold for whether it was a very public thing)

But that said -- mostly as a general observation -- is it really that impossible to think an athlete could remain clueless about something these days?

I'm thinking of this in terms of how college athlete X has no idea who a guy from even 20 years ago is, or how somebody like Rondo who appears to be sort of quirky (like the Connect Four thing) might actually be fairly oblivious to any number of things around him.

And nope, haters, this is not any attempt to defend Rondo or get into politically correct speech issues or anything remotely like that. It's entirely about how there do seem to be people who are extremely disconnected from stuff around them & how it might not be inconceivable that he (or any other person in the league) simply didn't have any idea. That it just never came up around them basically, or they weren't paying the slightest bit of attention when it did. I don't really get that level of disconnect but I do see it often enough that it wouldn't be THAT odd.

(Or is there a suggestion that the refs orientation is a topic of conversation in every NBA locker room at some point?)

Entirely possible, and if I didn't know the names of the player and referee in question I'd assume that case. But complete scumbag Tim Donaghy outed Bill Kennedy in 2010 and alleged that there was friction between him and Doc Rivers over it. It was a minor thing up here in Boston, and I'm sure Rondo was asked about it.

It's also dangerous to read too much into body language, but I've seen a lot of Rondo over the years, and his actions between the first technical and 2nd technical (from about :22 to :45) struck me as extremely odd even live. Couple that with the what was allegedly said, the extremely clinical way Rondo operates and lack of emotion he shows, to still have a very professional referee doing all he could to de-escalate a situation throw him out...

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

So this has been out there for like five years now ... and I'm hearing about it for the first time?

Amazing how not making a big deal out of something makes it be not a big deal.

(Yeah, THAT could be construed as social commentary I suppose, sue me)

Yep. UMass basketball had a player come out before last season, and by a month in we were back to yelling at him for sucking at outside shooting, just like all our other guards. That's how an actual progressive fanbase should react instead of walking on eggshells or worrying that any criticism would make him wilt like a delicate flower.

[murrayyyyy]

Why the hell would anyone help out Houston and take Howard right now?

He's a baby that is taking 8 shots a game right now. He's making 45.6 million over this and next year. He got his coach fired in Orlando, got along with no one in LA and it's starting to look like the same thing in Houston with his body forcing him to miss half the games last year and 5? this year already(did he miss 2 with suspension to start the season).

Either way I don't understand why the Heat would trade for him unless they believe he is the 3 for the Big 3. There is no way Whiteside and Winslow should be involved in a deal to bring him in.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Fantastic stuff from LeBron. Great example for other players in the league.

LeBron James Shows Love to Special Olympian, Gives Him Shoes After Game | Bleacher Report

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Fantastic stuff from LeBron. Great example for other players in the league.

LeBron James Shows Love to Special Olympian, Gives Him Shoes After Game | Bleacher Report

Was about to post something similar, found this part even more surprising.

"He also had my shoes on," James said, via ESPN. "I designed those shoes for kids with conditions where they can't tie their own shoestrings, and he had a pair on. Those shoes that he had on are made for kids that can't tie their own shoes, and it's just one strap. When I saw his story, it was just like, I don't know, I felt like I was a part of him. Just showing my respect, gave him my shoes. It was well received by him. It was not for you guys or the fans. It was for him."

First off, good on LeBron (even if he didn't design it) to know that his brand has special shoes for kids who have this problem. Second, I'm amazed at his ability during timeouts to notice things going on and always pay more respect than the crowd usually. Third, keep your shoe game up because evidently LBJ checks out everyone's shoes,

[jbergey22]

LeBron has the ability to see the big picture in life as he does on the basketball court. Always seems to be thinking 2 steps ahead of the "normal" person. Always under a microscope and he has done few things wrong in his career and when he has received criticism he has done his best to rectify the situation. He uses his influence to do far more good things than bad.

Kind of like Magic Johnson in that he was just born a winner. "The Decision" was frowned upon but now he is turning a similar idea into the next million dollar idea. He rakes in $126,500 per tweet.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

LeBron has the ability to see the big picture in life as he does on the basketball court. Always seems to be thinking 2 steps ahead of the "normal" person. Always under a microscope and he has done few things wrong in his career and when he has received criticism he has done his best to rectify the situation. He uses his influence to do far more good things than bad.

Kind of like Magic Johnson in that he was just born a winner. "The Decision" was frowned upon but now he is turning a similar idea into the next million dollar idea. He rakes in $126,500 per tweet.

Especially considering what, he was raised by a single mother who didn't go to college, he obviously never went to college and had all this attention showered on him by age 15, and the worst you can say is he's a tad narcissistic? Or surrounds himself with too many Yes men?

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Why the hell would anyone help out Houston and take Howard right now?

I don't understand why the Heat would trade for him unless they believe he is the 3 for the Big 3. There is no way Whiteside and Winslow should be involved in a deal to bring him in.

Whiteside and Winslow? I wouldn't trade either for him (ok, maybe Whiteside if the Heat still felt he was just a ticking time bomb more likely to be out of the NBA by the end of next year.) But fwiw, I read the rumors as Whiteside and Winslow being offered as the centerpieces of a DMC trade, which at least makes sense from a talent standpoint. Although not at all from the Kings or Whiteside's perspective - I just don't think you want to risk putting Hassan (back) in that dysfunctional environment.

Originally Posted by stevew

Violet Palmer is both gay and a terrible referee

That's the spirit!

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Whiteside and Winslow? I wouldn't trade either for him (ok, maybe Whiteside if the Heat still felt he was just a ticking time bomb more likely to be out of the NBA by the end of next year.) But fwiw, I read the rumors as Whiteside and Winslow being offered as the centerpieces of a DMC trade, which at least makes sense from a talent standpoint. Although not at all from the Kings or Whiteside's perspective - I just don't think you want to risk putting Hassan (back) in that dysfunctional environment.

I think Whiteside is an UFA this season so I guess it's not a big loss. Obviously Deng has to be in on the deal for $'s. I just can't see Howard being the missing piece anymore especially at 23 mill. I know Cousins at $15 seems like a better deal but he's just as big of a head case. I remember him shooting nothing but 3's in warmups before every trip to Vegas for Kings. Didn't work the bench for the past two years but for those first 3 years he was there the coaches almost seemed happy with him shooting 23 ft away from the left side for an hour.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

I think Whiteside is an UFA this season so I guess it's not a big loss. Obviously Deng has to be in on the deal for $'s. I just can't see Howard being the missing piece anymore especially at 23 mill. I know Cousins at $15 seems like a better deal but he's just as big of a head case. I remember him shooting nothing but 3's in warmups before every trip to Vegas for Kings. Didn't work the bench for the past two years but for those first 3 years he was there the coaches almost seemed happy with him shooting 23 ft away from the left side for an hour.

I think Howard could still be a very big asset. His latest two teams have been where he is a secondary option on teams whose primary option is a high usage player(Kobe/Harden). Stick Howard on a team where he can be the 1b to the 1a and I think he will be happy and be the player from 4 years ago. The Rockets rarely even run a play designed for him unless its a pick and roll back screen dunk.

His per 36 minute numbers havent fallen off a whole lot. He just gets fewer shot attempts and much lower usage than he did with Orlando.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I think Howard could still be a very big asset. His latest two teams have been where he is a secondary option on teams whose primary option is a high usage player(Kobe/Harden). Stick Howard on a team where he can be the 1b to the 1a and I think he will be happy and be the player from 4 years ago. The Rockets rarely even run a play designed for him unless its a pick and roll back screen dunk.

His per 36 minute numbers havent fallen off a whole lot. He just gets fewer shot attempts and much lower usage than he did with Orlando.

Honest question. Can he jump anymore? I just watched this video from the Kings game and can't help but think that the Lakers/Magic version of Howard would have at least dunked a few of these. He had left back surgery 3 years ago, missed a ton of games last year because of his knees and before the season started was complaining about the right side of his back and missing games. I just don't watch a ton of Rockets games and his vertical is starting to look a lot like Z-Bo.

Dwight "Superman" Howard - YouTube

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Honest question. Can he jump anymore? I just watched this video from the Kings game and can't help but think that the Lakers/Magic version of Howard would have at least dunked a few of these. He had left back surgery 3 years ago, missed a ton of games last year because of his knees and before the season started was complaining about the right side of his back and missing games. I just don't watch a ton of Rockets games and his vertical is starting to look a lot like Z-Bo.

Dwight "Superman" Howard - YouTube

This. Has a big guy EVER gotten back athleticism that he lost due to age/injury? It seems like a one-way street.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Honest question. Can he jump anymore? I just watched this video from the Kings game and can't help but think that the Lakers/Magic version of Howard would have at least dunked a few of these. He had left back surgery 3 years ago, missed a ton of games last year because of his knees and before the season started was complaining about the right side of his back and missing games. I just don't watch a ton of Rockets games and his vertical is starting to look a lot like Z-Bo.

Dwight "Superman" Howard - YouTube

Ouch! Yeah in that video it certainly shows he has lost explosiveness. I havent watched much of him this year either. Ive seen where he can flash the talent that made him the best center in the NBA for a few plays but nothing consistent at this point. Perhaps he just doesnt have the explosiveness and stamina to maintain that high level anymore.

[miami_fan]

From what I am reading, he is upset with being second banana to Harden and . He would HATE being in Miami behind an aging Wade, Bosh, and to a lesser extent Dragic.

[Groundhog]

So he wants to be in a situation like he was back in his Orlando days? You know, the first time he demanded a trade because he didn't have enough support around him?

[BishopMVP]

Woj partnering with Yahoo! Sports to launch a new site. The obvious parallel is Bill Simmons and Grantland, except basketball only - Yahoo Sports — Woj Interviews NBA Commissioner Adam Silver in New...

(Also, Yahoo is using tumblr now??? That... doesn't make me hopeful for the layout of the new site.)

[RainMaker]

Howard looks shot to me. Similar situation to Rose. Two guys who relied heavily on their superior athleticism that just don't have that advantage anymore.

[wustin]

It's funny how Howard got lessons from Ewing and Olajuwon and 10 years in the league now he still has a mediocre low post game.

[nol]

Well, partly because he's just worse and partly because he plays in an era where a good post scorer can't get 20+ straight 1-on-1 post iso opportunities per game. You could argue he'd be better off both then and now if he'd worked more towards staying in his lane and maximizing his strengths rather than trying to shoehorn in a post game.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by nol

Well, partly because he's just worse and partly because he plays in an era where a good post scorer can't get 20+ straight 1-on-1 post iso opportunities per game. You could argue he'd be better off both then and now if he'd worked more towards staying in his lane and maximizing his strengths rather than trying to shoehorn in a post game.

The fact that he, as one of the leagues most devastating PnR players, refused to be a PnR player in a league catered to that style really tells you all you need to know about his priorities.

[BishopMVP]

Marcus Camby was back on campus the other night and we got to talking about his game. Talk about someone who just missed their window. He still made over $100 million and got some recognition, but man, even with his constant minor injuries and his shot that never improved enough to be a weapon he was that prototype rim-running 5 for an up-tempo team. One of the best rim protectors and rebounders of any era, who could easily handle most switches on the pick and roll, run the floor in transition, enough passing to make the quick 4v3 decisions when he's the roll man on offense, and absolutely zero ego or desire to be an offensive focal point? I'd kill to have that guy on the Celtics today.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I haven't seen any other Bucks game, but based on the way they've played the Warriors twice, it's hard to believe they're 10-18.