NFL Week 17

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by Arles

I don't know about that. First, it's going to cost a 1st, a 3rd and a big money deal to make that happen. Almost every team that needs a QB bad enough to go after Anderson for that price is drafting in the top 10-15. That means it costs even more for them. You are looking at possible teams like Miami (#1), Atlanta (top 6), Baltimore (#7-8), Chicago (10-15) and Minnesota (16-19) as the only teams seemingly willing to pay near that price (SF doesn't have a 1st). You could probably throw out Chicago and Minnesota as one has very pressing UFAs (Bears) and the other a young QB they like (Jackson). So, you would to be looking at these things for Anderson to leave:

1. One of these teams decides to part with a high pick in rounds 1 and 3 and signs him an offer sheet with enough guarantees to ensure Cleveland doesn't match.

2. Anderson decides to go to sign the offer and go to teams like Miami, Atlanta, Baltimore or maybe Chicago and Minny that have most of their money on D and at RB. Compare that to the Browns with their money at OT, WR and TE. A higher chance would be he goes to Cleveland after receiving interest and lets them make an offer in that ballpark first.

But, the worst thing about giving Anderson a franchise tag is you lose all that space to potentially use on upgrading the Browns defense. Tying up all that money when guys like Lance Briggs, Jared Allen, Terrell Suggs, Asante Samuel, Karlos Dansby and others are out there seems like a bad move (and thats not counting guys like Haynesworth and Trufant who will probably be franchised). Worst case, you lose Anderson to a crazy FA offer and get money to spend on a top defensive player, a high 1st and 3rd in this draft and have Quinn at QB. Best case, Anderson signs a fair long term team deal and you haven't wrapped up all your cap space in him during the negociations.

Of course, after all this, my money is on him extending before the FA period even starts.

Some good points. But I disagree that Minny thinks it would be worth continuing to try things with Jackson while Anderson is available. I also think Chicago finally realizes they need a QB, and would jump at him, even with other money needed elsewhere -- it's the most important position. As for the lousy teams, don't overlook the big negative that now comes with getting a high pick (a huge contract on an unknown quantity). I could easily see those teams think that a huge contract on a question mark in the top of the 1st round is worth giving up for a known quantity and a huge contract. I also believe teams in the middle of the pack that you left out like Philly, Detroit, Carolina, and Buffalo would be interested. But that's what makes this whole situation very intriguing. There are so many possibilities of what might happen and where Anderson ends up.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Boy, I will say one thing I wish my good ole Titans had the drafting prowess of the Pats front office. I think that this year has expsoed Vince Young as being another of these one trick running QBs ala Kordell Stewart. And don't evn get me started with using the 5th overall pick on Pacman in 05.

That was last season

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

That was last season

Well, this year has really affirmed it. But you would know about poor QBs being a Fags fan right?

[Jas_lov]

Titans down 10-7 to Indy's backups. Cleveland is holding their breath.

[tucker rocky]

Titans returner just got smashed.

[st.cronin]

Remembering his Big 10 career, I'm always surprised when Jim Sorgi gets touched by a defender and isn't out 4-6 weeks.

[tucker rocky]

Young out, Collins in.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Titans down 10-7 to Indy's backups. Cleveland is holding their breath.

The fucking Titans no wonder they are the older Houston Oilers 1978-79 every year with these guys. Where is Earl Campbell, Billy "White Shoes " Johnson and Kenny Burroughs when we need them.

[Galaril]

Young hurt. There goes the season. The Browns deserve it more than the Titans. Though it goes against my team I think the Browns should make the playoffs they earned it.

[Greyroofoo]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Young hurt. There goes the season. The Browns deserve it more than the Titans. Though it goes against my team I think the Browns should make the playoffs they earned it.

So did you see Derek Anderson in the end of the 1st half against the Bungles?

[Brownkeg8]

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

Titans returner just got smashed.

an incredible hit.

[miami_fan]

It is a little late but congrats to the Redskins and the "senile old coach" for making the playoffs. Winning by 21 today is all be it against the backups was fitting to say the least.

[molson]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I didn't think people that could formulate this opinion would have the cognitive power to work a keyboard.

So there's at least two people who litterally believe that the NFL is utilizing part-time referres to rig games. Those people are quite litterally retarded. Seriously. They need to be in a group home situation.

16-0 is amzaing, no other way to define it. I love how the theme of that accomplishment isn't the accomlishment itself, but, "well, it won't mean anything if they don't win the Super Bowl". That's the most common thought after the game. 16-0!!!!! The greatest team accomplishment in an NFL regular season EVER, period. Greatest performance by a QB EVER, greatest performance by a WR, EVER. It's sad that people can't comprehend that. All these other regular games going on today, last year, this year, next year, the next five years - nothing compares to what the Patriots accomplished. People are all intersted in the 9-6 Titans game, as if they're relevant.

It's a moot point of course, because the Pats will win the SB.

If they lose in the playoffs, it'll be a big story, no question. But it doesn't wipe out the greatest regular and individual performances EVER.

[Jas_lov]

If the Titans cannot defeat the Colts' backups in a must win game, then they do not deserve it. The Browns do. The Redskins were in a similar situation against the Cowboys backups and they blew them out, as they should. Also, congratulations are in order to the Green Bay Packers for equaling a franchise high 13 wins today. I don't think there's any doubt now that Mike McCarthy is the 2007 NFL Coach of the Year.

[astrosfan64]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

If the Titans cannot defeat the Colts' backups in a must win game, then they do not deserve it. The Browns do. The Redskins were in a similar situation against the Cowboys backups and they blew them out, as they should. Also, congratulations are in order to the Green Bay Packers for equaling a franchise high 13 wins today. I don't think there's any doubt now that Mike McCarthy is the 2007 NFL Coach of the Year.

The skins were winning in the first half and that was against the cowboys starters.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by molson

So there's at least two people who litterally believe that the NFL is utilizing part-time referres to rig games. Those people are quite litterally retarded. Seriously. They need to be in a group home situation.

who "litterally" believes that?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Lathum

who "litterally" believes that?

Literriall Green maybe?

[Rizon]

Fuck my life.

[Celeval]

*annoyed* You know, I understand playing backups to avoid hurting the starters, but if you're not even going to try at the end of the game then why the hell don't you just walk out and forfeit?

[tucker rocky]

I really think the Browns are a more deserving team in the Po's, than the Titans.

Such it is in the NFL.

Oh yeah, and how in the heck does Kerry Collins make the SNF horse trailer?!?

[Galaril]

I got to say wow. The Titans really suck. Fisher has got to go along with Young and Chow with his college offense. We need a washed drunk at QB to come in and be the Colts backups. I can't remember a victory that felt as hollow as this. The Chargers are going to CRUSH us next week. If I was Young I would continue to fein serious injury and let Collins take the punishment.

[Jas_lov]

The Cleveland Browns have only themselves to blame for missing the playoffs. Should have beaten terrible Cincinatti a week ago. Can't depend on the Colts to do your dirty work for you. The Titans did what they had to do and deserve to make the playoffs. They will get thrashed by the Chargers though.

[tucker rocky]

Originally Posted by Celeval

*annoyed* You know, I understand playing backups to avoid hurting the starters, but if you're not even going to try at the end of the game then why the hell don't you just walk out and forfeit?

Good point, at least the Jags backups put up an ok fight in a losing cause, in a meaningless game today.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Lathum

who "litterally" believes that?

You would be one.

I can't spell, but I'm not a conspiracy nutjob.

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

The Cleveland Browns have only themselves to blame for missing the playoffs. Should have beaten terrible Cincinatti a week ago. Can't depend on the Colts to do your dirty work for you. The Titans did what they had to do and deserve to make the playoffs. They will get thrashed by the Chargers though.

Agreed on all counts - Browns should have won last week if they wanted to make it.

But still - trying to win with your backups is different then not trying to win at all.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Watching this game really made me wonder how bad the NFL wanted the Pats to go undefeated into the playoffs, the Giats had a couple of BS phantom calls that affected the game. Especialy the 2 on Toomer virtualy in succession.

Originally Posted by molson

You would be one.

I can't spell, but I'm not a conspiracy nutjob.

Really?

Show me where I said the NFL is using part time refs to rig games?

Is it really necessary to call people retards and make personal attacks in a thread where we are discussing football?

Considering there are members of this board who have children with special needs I thik you should choose your words more wisely and grow up.

[Mustang]

Wow.. ok, I understand the backups thing and all but, you just flat give up and don't even make them run a 4th down play with a timeout?

[Rizon]

Fuck my life. I cannot say it enough. I needed that $400 to buy some bullets to defend my gang.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Really?

Show me where I said the NFL is using part time refs to rig games?

Is it really necessary to call people retards and make personal attacks in a thread where we are discussing football?

Considering there are members of this board who have children with special needs I thik you should choose your words more wisely and grow up.

Lathum:

"Watching this game really made me wonder how bad the NFL wanted the Pats to go undefeated into the playoffs, the Giats had a couple of BS phantom calls that affected the game. Especialy the 2 on Toomer virtualy in succession."

I don't use the word "retard" to describe real people with special needs. I do use it as a slang to describe people who should simply know better. In any event, I agree with you that it's a poor choice of words. It's just tiring to see the same ridiculous schtick week after week.

[Lathum]

and had I said that I would understand why you are tired of that schtick, but I really don't see where you are getting that from my statement.

[oykib]

The calls in Pats/Giants were largely one-sided. One can make that statement without leaping to the conclusion that he game was rigged, however.

I'm a Yankees fan also. So I've been where the Patriot fans are today. But I can admit the calls we got in game 1 vs. the Padres in '98 or the Jeffrey Meier HR grab went our way. It's the Yankee fans who can't that inspire the hatred of other fans.

Some of you Pats fans are doing that now. Wilfork should've gotten a 15-yarder with an auto-first down. The Tooomer call on the return was one of the worst calls all season. I can't say THE WORST. I haven't seen every game. But the official called a guy for a personal foul when he didn't see anything. If you watch the replay it's clear that the official that threw the flag was out of position. Officials are not supposed to speculate.

Anyone who equates that Toomer call with any other call in that game is just not being fair. That wasn't a 50-50 call. Toomer never touched the guy on that play.

[Vince]

Thought it was pretty weak for them not to use the timeout there.

[st.cronin]

I must have missed the Toomer play, because I honestly don't know what people are talking about.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I must have missed the Toomer play, because I honestly don't know what people are talking about.

That's because you TOOK YOUR EYE OFF TOOMER!!!!!!

[molson]

Originally Posted by oykib

The calls in Pats/Giants were largely one-sided. One can make that statement without leaping to the conclusion that he game was rigged, however.

I'm a Yankees fan also. So I've been where the Patriot fans are today. But I can admit the calls we got in game 1 vs. the Padres in '98 or the Jeffrey Meier HR grab went our way. It's the Yankee fans who can't that inspire the hatred of other fans.

Some of you Pats fans are doing that now. Wilfork should've gotten a 15-yarder with an auto-first down. The Tooomer call on the return was one of the worst calls all season. I can't say THE WORST. I haven't seen every game. But the official called a guy for a personal foul when he didn't see anything. If you watch the replay it's clear that the official that threw the flag was out of position. Officials are not supposed to speculate.

Anyone who equates that Toomer call with any other call in that game is just not being fair. That wasn't a 50-50 call. Toomer never touched the guy on that play.

What about the ridiculous Moss excessive celebration call that led directly to a Giants TD? Is that a call you make if you're trying to rig the game in the other direction?

Every team gets it share of bad calls - the only thing I'm disputing that the NFL is actually fixing games. Which has been a regularly-stated theory on this board this season.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by oykib

Wilfork should've gotten a 15-yarder with an auto-first down.

Agree. But if a ref doesn't see it while some other scrum is going on, like what happens all the time, then there is no call. I hardly call missing a skirmish off to the side bad reffing. The Toomer call was atrocious, however, but evened out by an equally terrible call against Moss for excessive celebration. I watched the game, it was fairly evenly called with a slight edge to the Pats. You complainers should just go home please. Someone please explain to me any other bad calls, please. Because I didn't see them. And if you can, I'll match you with the calls that went in favor of the Giants.

[larrymcg421]

I think the "rigged" accusations are idiotic, but there's no way those calls even out. I hate excessive celebration calls and if one ever deserved to be called, it was certainly not that one. However, at least it was something that Moss actually did. They flagged Toomer for something he did not even do. It's the equivalent of calling a false start on a guy who was sitting on the bench.

[st.cronin]

Some classic quotes from last year's Championship game thread:

Originally Posted by TroyF

You should be saying nothing outside of "great game Colts" "Great game Manning" "We'll see you next year" (only after the first two statements are made) and "It's time the front office got off it's ass and gave Brady some real WR to throw the football to. The lack of weapons devastated us when it really counted"

It's certainly not the time to try to spoil the Colts win by bitching about two calls in a game you were winning 21-3.

Originally Posted by Noop

Why get mad when someone else catches a break? Suck it up!

Originally Posted by TroyF

I also thought the Pats fans on this board and others acted pretty poorly after the loss, especially when they've won a lot of games over the years on similar calls and breaks. I thought the best thing would be to say "congrats Manning, I didn't like a few of the calls, but you got us. Wait til next year" Instead it was a series of whines and bitches about one botched PI call and a roughing the passer call that made the difference in nine yards of field position on a drive the Patriots couldn't stop the CU Buff offense because they were so worn out.

[molson]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

However, at least it was something that Moss actually did. They flagged Toomer for something he did not even do.

The refs screw up from time to time. The Pats got burned again and again against the Colts and they won anyway. The Giants shitty play calling the 4th quarter had nothing to do with the loss?

They're friggen 16-0 and people want to make the refs the story.

[molson]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Some classic quotes from last year's Championship game thread:

If Pats fans mention the refs, they're classless. It's a different story if it's anyone else.

Troy's comments about "spoiling" another team's accomplishments are the most telling. That's all that's going on here.

The team you root for will never be 16-0. Deal with it.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by molson

If Pats fans mention the refs, they're classless. It's a different story if it's anyone else.

According to you if it's anyone else they are retarded

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

the only thing I'm disputing that the NFL is actually fixing games.

And I'd say that anyone who doesn't believe that it's at the very least a distinct possibility given the incredible amounts of money involved has to be astonishingly naive.

At this point, there really isn't a single competitive sport - large or small - that I have complete confidence in not being "rigged" to at least some extent.

Now be sure to read carefully, because I'm not saying that I'm convinced that all of them are, just that there really isn't a single sport that I would be particularly surprised to eventually discover was.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Lathum

According to you if it's anyone else they are retarded

Beliving the NFL fixes games is retarded. (and I don't know how to take your earlier post I quoted any other way)

Constantly bringing up the refs every time the Pats win a game is just jelousy/sour grapes.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And I'd say that anyone who doesn't believe that it's at the very least a distinct possibility given the incredible amounts of money involved has to be astonishingly naive.

How much money do you think the NFL made with the Pats win? Seriously, give me a number estimate. TV deals are already in place. Ratings are marginally effected. Do you think it's worth prison time if ONE part-time referee (several of whom are lawyers) decides to spill the beans?

[st.cronin]

I think its plausible to think that any given game has some (small) chance of being fixed. I think its absurd to suggest that there could be a league wide conspiracy over many games and many weeks.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by molson

How much money do you think the NFL made with the Pats win? Seriously, give me a number estimate. TV deals are already in place. Ratings are marginally effected. Do you think it's worth prison time if ONE part-time referee (several of whom are lawyers) decides to spill the beans?

Forget about the jail time (that can be pinned on other peope). How about the billions and billions that would be lost if one person spoke up?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Logan

Forget about the jail time (that can be pinned on other peope). How about the billions and billions that would be lost if one person spoke up?

Of course. It makes NO sense logically if you think about it for 2 seconds.

Do you perform an action where you gain $500k if it works out, but you lose billions if it doesn't? (and it's more than 50/50 that it won't work out)

[st.cronin]

Re-reading that Colts-Pats thread reminded me of how utterly heartsick I was after that game. Earlier this year, when the Patriots were just carpet-bombing everybody, I was very detached as a fan. But the series of close, exciting games they've played down the stretch, like the ones against Baltimore, Philadelphia, and the Giants, has me deeply engaged. This is the most fun I've ever had as a football fan.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

How much money do you think the NFL made with the Pats win? etc etc blah blah

First, you do realize that the league isn't the only entity making money from the games, right?

Second, TV deals do expire and do come up for renewal.

Third, an undefeated Patriots team likely ensures all-time record ratings for every round they play in.

Finally, do you really think pointing out that several NFL officials are also attorneys really helps your case?

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by molson

The refs screw up from time to time. The Pats got burned again and again against the Colts and they won anyway. The Giants shitty play calling the 4th quarter had nothing to do with the loss?

They're friggen 16-0 and people want to make the refs the story.

I have no dog in this fight. I'm simply making the point that the calls you mentioned do not even out. The call against Toomer is as bad a call as a referee can make. That doesn't mean the game was rigged, or the bad calls stole it from the Giants, or the Giants shitty playcalling wasn't their ultimate undoing. It just means that it's one of the worst calls I've ever seen in football and your comparison to an excessive celebration penalty is way off the mark.