Game of Thrones on HBO

[ISiddiqui]

Seriously, has no one in this entire world heard of scouts? Well, we'll just sail around King's Landing and we know Euron is around somewhere, oh well, let's wing it.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

My guess is that Euron will probably invade either The Reach or Dorne with the Iron Fleet for Cersei. But that's just me.

Yay to me for a good guess?

[larrymcg421]

I liked everything up until that final action scene. Just dumb on so many levels.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Radii

Now that is a good point that I failed to make, another +1 for this episode.

+2

[RainMaker]

How did Euron get such gigantic ships built so quickly? Why didn't they just build them big like that before?

Was Yara the one hanging at the end?

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

How did Euron get such gigantic ships built so quickly? Why didn't they just build them big like that before?

Was Yara the one hanging at the end?

Dont think it was here, I think its the sand snake sisters.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

How did Euron get such gigantic ships built so quickly? Why didn't they just build them big like that before?

There's that.

And then there's the question of...how the hell wasn't Euron's fleet spotted the moment big giant flaming catapult stones were lit up and readied?

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

How did Euron get such gigantic ships built so quickly? Why didn't they just build them big like that before?

Was Yara the one hanging at the end?

I'm pretty sure those were his ships from before, just a lot bigger, but a lot less of them. He didn't have the Iron Island fleet before

[Honolulu_Blue]

I had no real problem with the final scene.

It was super dark and foggy and, at least in the books (and mayhaps in the show), Euron has access to some limited sorcery, so he could have used that to help hide his fleet from sight until he launched his attack. Also, I don't think anyone quite knew where Euron was.

The choreography and visuals and all the rest of the battle were pretty fantastic. It was a pretty incredible scene to watch unfold on screen.

I loved seeing Hot Pie again. He's a survivor!

[Coffee Warlord]

Heh. You guys remember the script leaks from late last year, for this season?

Thus far, they've been spot on.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by chinaski

Dont think it was here, I think its the sand snake sisters.

The one with the rope was hanging, the one that was killed first, was impaled

[Vince, Pt. II]

The only thing I have been disappointed by with Euron is that he didn't show up until we were in fast-forward mode with the plot. He's easily my favorite part of the Iron Islands in the books, and we have had next to no time in the show to see how badass he actually is. His scene with Jaime and Cersei in the season opener was fantastic, and I look forward to more of it. Will be slightly disappointed if Dragonbinder is completely omitted, but at this point I don't know if there's enough time left for it to even be a thing.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Euron has access to some limited sorcery, so he could have used that to help hide his fleet from sight until he launched his attack.

The show has done nothing to establish this or earn this.

[ISiddiqui]

I think all the horns have been omitted. Though Dragonbinder and the Horn of Joramun (oh hey, the Night King found it...) would be fantastic.

[Honolulu_Blue]

One question on the attack by Euron.

Did he attack them on the way to Dorne?

Or did he attack them on the way back from Dorne, such that the bulk of Dornish army is now in the drink?

[sabotai]

I'm assuming on the way to Dorne. Didn't Elleria ask Yara if she had ever been to Sunspear? That would have been an odd question to ask if they had just been there.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by sabotai

I'm assuming on the way to Dorne. Didn't Elleria ask Yara if she had ever been to Sunspear? That would have been an odd question to ask if they had just been there.

That's true. Good point!

[stevew]

Ok, so obviously Arya is going to reconsider her trek back to Winterfell? I assume that is what we were to infer from the wolf scene?

Euron is just so over the top. I know we have dragons and stuff in this world but he's just completely out of left field.

I think maybe Sansa actually wins this whole thing and is the only one left standing? For all the build up they've given Khaleesi in the correct manor to rule the people, Sansa has also learned similar lessions. I have no idea who Sansa would end up with. But if someone like Gendry reappears, it could make sense for a ruling partnership I guess. The whole war seemed to start because Robert's bride was captured by Aegon I think, so aligning the son of Robert with a Stark could be interesting.

Thank god the Sand Snakes are dead.

[thesloppy]

I thought that boat fight was a hot mess, I just couldn't tell what was going on, nor did I care. And the fact that Euron and his men from the Iron Islands are all apparently superheroes, while Yara took all the Iron mongoloids, was glossed over until this point, so it just seemed ham-handed to me.

It is interesting to read in here that Euron actually IS that much of a badass in the books (of which I'm entirely ignorant). I guess it might've sold better if they'd done some additional exposition to illustrate that, rather than just pushing some geezer off a bridge?

[JPhillips]

The whole thing is just getting stupider in pursuit of a resolution. The characters have always been naive and foolish, but they've not been so stupid.

Sansa was told just the previous day or so to not undercut her brother in public and she did it anyway, but that's kind of okay, because Jon was stupid enough to plan a handover without ever discussing it with his sister.

Why is Dany picking a fight with Varys at this point? She's been with him for months without ever mentioning any of her suspicions?

And nobody ever thought of a ballista in this world?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

It is interesting to read in here that Euron actually IS that much of a badass in the books (of which I'm entirely ignorant). I guess it might've sold better if they'd done some additional exposition to illustrate that, rather than just pushing some geezer off a bridge?

Yeah, he's basically Odin come to life in the books (complete with the only having one eye thing). After Euron slept with his brother, Victarion's wife, he was banished by Balon and so Euron went sailing around the world, getting a whole bunch of treasure and a bunch of magical artifacts. His ship was the Silence, which is crewed by mutes (so it's eerily silent on board except for Euron).

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

but that's kind of okay, because Jon was stupid enough to plan a handover without ever discussing it with his sister.

That seemed particularly stupid...he's giving her the reigns to the north, but declined to give her any indication of that fact beforehand, and didn't give her the slightest instructions (other than a shaky nod) afterward.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Why is Dany picking a fight with Varys at this point? She's been with him for months without ever mentioning any of her suspicions?

I think this has been coming for a while. She has known Varys was the one who implemented the assassin attempt on Robert's behalf. Now that she is close to the iron throne and in a battle where intrigue is key - having Varys go rogue near King's Landing (and all his "little birds") would be extremely dangerous to her. I think the timing makes sense and that was a discussion she needed to have, IMO.

[ISiddiqui]

Also they probably needed the clunky exposition so she could accept Melissandre without much protest.

Interestingly that is one thing that has gone without much comment. Melissandre, one of the most hated characters, is now with Dany, one of the most liked. I wonder how that will go for the fanbase (I still think Dany turns evil at some point).

[Arles]

I'm wondering how Davos will react to her since he is joining Jon on the trip to King's Landing. I can't imagine he will be very receptive to her presence. I thought around the death of Stannis' brother Renly, Varys made some comment about not wanting the person who did that to rule. I wonder if he has an issue with her soon that hasn't come out. Plus, Jon exiled her from the north (in part due to Davos), so I'm interested to see how all this goes down when Jon and Davos arrive.

[chinaski]

Kinda surprised at the criticisms in this thread, I thought the first two episodes were fantastic.

[molson]

This board has been very negative on GOT for a while. Especially with Point A to Point B traveling stuff and battles either starting suddenly or someone showing up suddenly late to the battles. I'm glad that stuff has never bothered me. This is the kind of big epic show, like the Sopranos, that you have to assume lots of off-screen activity because there's just no way to explain every little thing without killing the drama or dragging the pace down. I've been very entertained any Sunday GOT is on.

[PilotMan]

It's a great show, but in the books a shit ton of stuff happens in between and those parts are great and important too. The show is a great show. However, from the story telling perspective it feels, to me at least, that it's like watching everything on fast forward.

[PilotMan]

dola

I know I mentioned to my wife how much time had passed in each scene. It costs the show in the scope of the world, by making it seem much smaller as a consequence.

[Logan]

I'm very much in on this season. I think that power meeting shown at Dragonstone during Episode 2 was a little jarring at first, seeing all those people coming together and attempting to bring in Jon Snow, after such a long period of time where everyone was separated.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

It's a great show, but in the books a shit ton of stuff happens in between and those parts are great and important too. The show is a great show. However, from the story telling perspective it feels, to me at least, that it's like watching everything on fast forward.

I think that's my main gripe as well, the pacing has been all over the place. I mean I guess it's to be expected once the deadline for a show ending was in place, but at one time the show DID spend time on at least some of the minor details, and travelling was a major part of the plot, but now all of a sudden a ton of the action seems to be happening off-screen, while on-screen it just seems to be several sudden gatherings of all the main characters who speak entirely in terms of exposition.....but at least Samwell's story is still moving at a snail's pace, and we get to see him shuffle shit around and pick scabs in real time.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by chinaski

Kinda surprised at the criticisms in this thread, I thought the first two episodes were fantastic.

I'm with you. I've really enjoyed. I consider this show to be one the true triumphs in television history.

I started reading these books back in 1999 and never in my wildest imagination believed that they would ever be translated into a movie or TV show that could ever do them justice, much less improve on certain aspects, as this show has.

While the show hasn't perfect and has had a few missteps here and there, overall, it's simply remarkable.

I do miss the deep, rich history that the books created. There are certain characters in those books that have been dead for years before the books even began who feel like more fully fleshed out characters than main characters in other stories. I miss the mythology. I miss a lot of the cool political intrigues and inter-connected families and call backs and prophecies and all of that. There is a lot the books - the first three in particular - offer that just really can't be in the shows because of time, budget, and the fact that they are two different mediums.

That said, there have been a lot of narrative changes that the show has made that are actually an improvement on what happened in the books. Also, for the vast majority of the characters, the casting has been near perfect and for some of the characters, they are actually better and more interesting on screen than they were in the books. Brienne is a perfect example. So is Cersei, really.

Originally Posted by PilotMan

It's a great show, but in the books a shit ton of stuff happens in between and those parts are great and important too. The show is a great show. However, from the story telling perspective it feels, to me at least, that it's like watching everything on fast forward.

There is definitely a bit of that, to be sure. That being said, I'd much rather have things move on fast forward than whatever speed Books 4 & 5 were on.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I think that's my main gripe as well, the pacing has been all over the place. I mean I guess it's to be expected once the deadline for a show ending was in place, but at one time the show DID spend time on at least some of the minor details, and travelling was a major part of the plot, but now all of a sudden a ton of the action seems to be happening off-screen, while on-screen it just seems to be several sudden gatherings of all the main characters who speak entirely in terms of exposition.....but at least Samwell's story is still moving at a snail's pace, and we get to see him shuffle shit around and pick scabs in real time.

Exactly this. In past seasons they'd show a bit more detail of getting from A to B. Recently it seems more checkpoint-y or as said upthread on fast forward. The sad part is this was after the show could basically print money, so there was no reason to get rid of the detail - well aside from the fact that they didn't have a fully written story to pull that detail from. It seems when they have to write the plot themselves with just broad knowledge of what is supposed to happen and without Martin's books to fall back on they omit the interesting detail that made the world seem more alive.

[thesloppy]

Yeah, I think that change in pace also lessens character, as 50% of any/every dialog this season has taken the form of "I'm going to go XXXX and do XXXXXX". Moments of humor, wit or really any emotion are fewer and further between, as the majority of scenes have devolved into too many characters taking turns checking off plot points. It loses a lot of life for me if it just becomes exposition into epic action sequence, rinse, repeat, almost regardless of the quality of the action.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Interestingly that is one thing that has gone without much comment. Melissandre, one of the most hated characters, is now with Dany, one of the most liked. I wonder how that will go for the fanbase (I still think Dany turns evil at some point).

Obviously I'm kind of a cynical bastard, and not the best judge, but I'm still confounded every week by my personal feelings that Emilia Clarke is the least interesting actress on the show vs. the fact that she's obviously the star in character & person, and hugely popular. I feel like her complete disinterest in the role & show is palpable.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Obviously I'm kind of a cynical bastard, and not the best judge...

Poor, thesloppy. He's been Lionized.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Poor, thesloppy. He's been Lionized.

Precisely. BooooOOOooOOOO! Put in the backup Targaryen!

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I feel like her complete disinterest in the role & show is palpable.

I'll let her read for the part she played in my dreams the other night. If she's looking for something new.

[booradley]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

It's a great show, but in the books a shit ton of stuff happens in between and those parts are great and important too. The show is a great show. However, from the story telling perspective it feels, to me at least, that it's like watching everything on fast forward.

Yes. And having key developments from the books ignored or wholly changed for the sake of budgeting is just grinding my gears. TYRION got greyscale in the book I'm reading, not Mormont. Tyrion. The central character. That's a hugely important development to pass over.

The HBO series is entertaining, but cannot be accepted as the real Song of Ice and Fire. Martin needs to finish telling the tale HIS way (it's SO good, ya'll!)

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by booradley

Yes. And having key developments from the books ignored or wholly changed for the sake of budgeting is just grinding my gears. TYRION got greyscale in the book I'm reading, not Mormont. Tyrion. The central character. That's a hugely important development to pass over.

The HBO series is entertaining, but cannot be accepted as the real Song of Ice and Fire. Martin needs to finish telling the tale HIS way (it's SO good, ya'll!)

Uh... No. I'm pretty sure in the book I read Tyrion did NOT get Greyscale. Jon Connigton got it. A character who was first introduced in Book 5.

Giving Greyscale to Mormont was much more impactful and interesting than giving it to some new character we barely know or care about.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I'll let her read for the part she played in my dreams the other night. If she's looking for something new.

Only if you give Hot Pie dude a shot as well, he's gotta spend thousands of dollars monthly on marshmallows alone!

I did find whatever the Hound is doing as kind of interesting, even if we didn't see him this week....he and Arya are some of the last of the main characters who are still doing on-screen traveling, and getting some character development. I also wanna echo what someone said page(s) back about the challenge they're having by giving Lady Mormont's character more screen time as fan service, which only seems to lessen her appeal.

[ISiddiqui]

... AFAIK Tyrion doesn't have grayscale in the books. It is part of a wideranging discussion online about whether Tyrion is a Targaryen (some folks believe the Targs are immune to diseases as well as fire or something).

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

than giving it to some new character we barely know or care about.

TBH, I like Jon Connington far more than I ever liked Jorah.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

TBH, I like Jon Connington far more than I ever liked Jorah.

I don't mind Jon Connington as a character. I just think that giving Grayscale to a character who has been around since the beginning and we're more invested in is a better narrative decision than giving it to some newly introduced character.

The big problem I have with Connington and Lil Griff is that either: 1) They play an important role, which is annoying, because they were just introduced in Book 5; or 2) They don't really play an important role and we're just wasting a bunch of time on a plotline that is completely useless and boring. (See, e.g., Martel, Quentyn.) It'll take a deft hand to make this particular set of characters anything but irritating in overall scheme of the story.

I would believe that Book 1-3 Martin, where his shit was tight and awesome, could pull this off. Books 4-5 Martin? Sadly, I have my doubts.

[ISiddiqui]

The main issue I see is the notion that a plot that doesn't change everything is 'useless' and/or 'boring'. According to the show Stannis dies in the Battle of Winterfell. So was his plotline just completely useless and boring? Was Oberyn Martell's plotline just completely useless and boring?

Epic stories should have plenty of plotlines and characters that do things in the world and change up things here and there but don't necessarily factor into the final part of it. And characters that enter and leave the story at various points. Otherwise it's too on the nose that these 4-5 characters are the 'special ones' that we've seen from the beginning and just have things magically gravitate towards them... which makes it far less epic and far more boring. If we don't care about the wide world outside of 4-5 peoples, then it's simply quite less epic of a story. And that's why I really liked Book 4 and 5. It deepened the world and made it far more richer of a place to spend some time in. The narrowing of the world that the show has done since it's moved beyond the books has robbed it of a lot of its brilliance.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

According to the show Stannis dies in the Battle of Winterfell. So was his plotline just completely useless and boring?

No.

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Was Oberyn Martell's plotline just completely useless and boring?

Yes.

[Arles]

Count me in as one who loves the show. I haven't read the books and am in some ways glad I saw the show first. It seems that most who have issues with the show are disappointed that it didn't highlight/focus on a certain thing that was more prominent in the books. As a show, it's amazing - and I'm glad nothing has tainted it.

All that said, I think I will definitely read the books once the show is officially over - just to get some more insight on things.

[thesloppy]

as an aside, I enjoyed the pacing of The Last Kingdom, and GoT always popped up in my head as the negative comparison. The Last Kingdom's historical setting gave it a pace that was much more deliberate and consistent, yet the smaller stakes and deliberate pacing almost gave it more weight.

Conversely there have been points in GoT recently where they try to tease you with some apocalyptic event, epic situation or character death that you KNOW simply can't happen as there are several plot points we have yet to check off, and not just in terms of the books (of which I'm still ignorant), but we knew Dany had to reach Westeros with Tyrion, and we know the gradual phases of Winter and the Night King had to progress with some linearity, we know the Stark kids are going to get together eventually, we know there has to be an epic battle between the Starks and the Lannisters, etc. We seem to be finally reaching the resolution of most of those events, so the future is opening up a bit, and hopefully the show will lose a bit of the 'race to inevitable events' feeling I've wrestled with these first few shows of the new season.

[molson]

Originally Posted by booradley

The HBO series is entertaining, but cannot be accepted as the real Song of Ice and Fire.

For me, the show replaced the books as the real Song of Ice and Fire at some point. Every day it gets less like likely the books will be finished. GRRM said this week that he's hoping 2018 for Winds of Winter, which makes 2019 or 2020 more likely, and then what - 2027 or 2028 for A Dream of Spring? (Hard to believe that he September 2015 he thought he could get the book out that year - I'd love to read the real story of what really went so terribly wrong, that might be as compelling as two post-show book releases). Meanwhile the show is churning out content every year, will have entirely come and gone in the time since GRRM finished writing a single book, and will end the story first. I'll be very happy to read the last two books when and if we get them, but I'll really have to re-educate myself on where things are plot-wise. And that at that point, I'd be reading just to see how the books deviate from the show, rather than vice versa.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Only if you give Hot Pie dude a shot as well, he's gotta spend thousands of dollars monthly on marshmallows alone!

I did find whatever the Hound is doing as kind of interesting, even if we didn't see him this week....he and Arya are some of the last of the main characters who are still doing on-screen traveling, and getting some character development. I also wanna echo what someone said page(s) back about the challenge they're having by giving Lady Mormont's character more screen time as fan service, which only seems to lessen her appeal.

That was me and I feel even more strongly about it. It feels too forced now