Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

In high school, I remember the WAC consisted of Arizona State, Arizona, BYU and most of the current MWC. Now they are going to have teams I don't think a lot of people have heard of.

Was that before or after the invention of the forward pass?

SI

[RedKingGold]

Hawaii joining Nevada and Fresno State to the MWC in 2012.

Hawaii reportedly headed to the MWC; adios WAC? | CollegeFootballTalk

[BishopMVP]

Why would a conference even want Hawaii with the travel costs? I guess as a football-only member they give your teams that extra home game to compensate for it (and Hawaii is a fertile recruiting ground), but the Big West taking them as an all-sports member seems like greatly increased travel costs for little benefit.

[Young Drachma]

Their bowl-tie in, maybe?

[sooner333]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Why would a conference even want Hawaii with the travel costs? I guess as a football-only member they give your teams that extra home game to compensate for it (and Hawaii is a fertile recruiting ground), but the Big West taking them as an all-sports member seems like greatly increased travel costs for little benefit.

I think for a small conference where you're competing with other small schools, getting a chance to say "Not only do you get to play in California, but we're going to Hawaii every other year" is a pretty good sales pitch.

[Young Drachma]

Apparently, some think the Hawai'i move is a preemptive move for when TCU leaves the league for the Big East and that it's going to allow TCU to stay in the MWC for all sports except football and Hawai'i to join for all sports but football to keep the MWC at 10 teams in all sports, even if the composition of the ten is different between football/non-football.

[Young Drachma]

Mountain West Conference holds interest in 12-team format, executive says - ESPN

Nevermind, looks like they are going to shoot for 12 teams instead with Houston as the other school.

[General Mike]

Big East is gonna screw the whole thing up

[RomaGoth]

For the sake of competitiveness I hope TCU stays in the MWC.

[k0ruptr]

I'm really happy that Hawaii is making this move, Staying in the WAC was going to completely fuck them over.

Also The Big West is going to be an excellent conference for there volleyball (M and W) Water Polo, Tennis, Soccer and etc Teams. This really is working out much much better then staying in the WAC or moving Independant.

[Young Drachma]

The only hitch is, I can't see where TCU's other teams will go if they go football only to the Big East. I think that's why the MWC is looking at 12 teams as an effort to keep TCU in tow, but if not..they'll poach SMU and Houston, get Hawaii and still go to 12 anyway.

[DeToxRox]

TCU to become a full member of the Big East.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/co...st_source.html

[Swaggs]

I think they are clearly the best option for the Big East.

It will be interesting to see how they do, particularly in recruiting, as a member of a BCS conference.

I imagine that we will get an announcement from Villanova pretty soon. I expect that they will decide not to move up and that UCF (for all sports) or possibly Temple (football only) will get the 10th spot.

The loss of Utah, BYU, and TCU will enable the BCS to keep the MWC out as an AQ, I suspect.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I think they are clearly the best option for the Big East.

It will be interesting to see how they do, particularly in recruiting, as a member of a BCS conference.

I imagine that we will get an announcement from Villanova pretty soon. I expect that they will decide not to move up and that UCF (for all sports) or possibly Temple (football only) will get the 10th spot.

The loss of Utah, BYU, and TCU will enable the BCS to keep the MWC out as an AQ, I suspect.

Feel bad for TCU hoops.

[ISiddiqui]

Seems weird that they didn't extend an invite to another Western team. TCU is kind on an island seemingly.

[RedKingGold]

Temple would be a good fit in both football and basketball to be invited back to the Big East.

EDIT: Keep in mind, however, that Temple was booted out of the Big East less than a decade ago.

[Swaggs]

With Temple, they seem to be moving in the right direction competitively, but not so much with their fanbase.

One of the things to look at with all the expansion is attendance: http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2010/Intern...ATTENDANCE.pdf

And looking at that list also helps to see why the SEC, the Big Ten, and Texas are the big dogs on the national stage.

For the Big East, TCU averages about 42K per game, which fits in pretty well with our conference (WVU, Pitt, and Louisville all average over 50K while Cincy is our bottom team at 36K) and the other BCS conferences.

The only BCS conference teams that average less than 35K are Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Duke, and Washington State -- three small, private schools and one school that is a BCS school because they got into the PAC 8 before things took off.

The teams that are usually mentioned with the Big East, like Temple (20K), Marshall (27K -- in a year that they played WVU at home and a lot of Mountaineer fans bought their inexpensive season tickets to guarantee seats), Memphis (24K), and Houston (31K), along with most of the MWC (aside from the vacating schools -- TCU, BYU, and Utah) just don't have the fan power to belong.

That is why UCF (39K) and ECU (49K) are probably better choices for the Big East from my point of view. ECU doesn't have much of a television/media market, but they are kind of similar to WVU and Virginia Tech in the 80s-early 90s, in my opinion.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

For the Big East, TCU averages about 42K per game, which fits in pretty well with our conference (WVU, Pitt, and Louisville all average over 50K while Cincy is our bottom team at 36K) and the other BCS conferences.
n.

Nice joke buddy

[DeToxRox]

I full expect TCU to dominate this conference in football. I don't think TCU joining opens up Texas much recruiting wise to other Big East schools. It should give TCU a nice bump to some of the kids they normally wouldn't get from the state though.

[molson]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

I full expect TCU to dominate this conference in football. I don't think TCU joining opens up Texas much recruiting wise to other Big East schools. It should give TCU a nice bump to some of the kids they normally wouldn't get from the state though.

So the big east will actually be able to send ranked teams to the BCS?

This is a win/win all around (if it's true)

[Suburban Rhythm]

How long until we hear "Yeah, they are in the Big East now...but who did they play?"

[Toddzilla]

wow - this is going to shitcan TCU's SOS.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Feel bad for TCU hoops.

Don't worry, they can still probably beat DePaul.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

Nice joke buddy

They report 50K+ per game?

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

I full expect TCU to dominate this conference in football. I don't think TCU joining opens up Texas much recruiting wise to other Big East schools. It should give TCU a nice bump to some of the kids they normally wouldn't get from the state though.

I would expect them among the favorites every year, but football is cyclical. They have been playing at a very high level for several years and it is tough to sustain that.

Remember that Miami was dominating the Big East, while Boston College and Virginia Tech were barely finishing in the top half and over .500 prior to joining the ACC. Now, six years later Virginia Tech and Boston College each have multiple ACC Championship game appearances while Miami has zero.

[bronconick]

Once TCU's coaching staff starts getting picked over, and some of the replacements aren't as good, you'll see a dropoff.

2008 Florida Gator coaching staff
Billy Gonzales (Recruiting coordinator/wide recievers) now at LSU
Charlie Strong (Defensive coordinator/linebackers) now at Louisville
Dan Mullen (Offensive Coordinator/QB Coach) now at Mississippi State
Kenny Carter (Running backs) now at Louisville
Vance Bedford (Cornerbacks) now at Louisville
John Hevesy (Tight Ends/Assistant offensive line) now at Mississippi State
Dan McCarney (Defensive line) leaving for North Texas

Steve Addazio and Chuck Heater are the only guys left from two years ago. And most Gator fans want Addazio's head on a pike.

[Young Drachma]

A great move for TCU either way, because being in the same league with Boise State wasn't good for either of them and when you offer a BCS bid with it, it's a no-brainer move if the Big East was willing to make it happen.

[Izulde]

Way to ruin the Mountain West, assholes. We would have a BCS bid if TCU, Utah, and BYU had all stayed.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Way to ruin the Mountain West, assholes. We would have a BCS bid if TCU, Utah, and BYU had all stayed.

The BCS bid is almost easier without them (if the non-AQ conferences hold on to their collective automatic bid).

Who's going to compete for that every year besides Boise St? Nevada, I guess.

[Izulde]

That said, Hawaii is a decent team and they have a fun offense to watch. And like somebody else pointed out, it's a good recruiting area.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

For the sake of competitiveness I hope TCU stays in the MWC.

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

TCU to become a full member of the Big East.

Texas Christian University's Horned Frogs invited into The Big East: source

Hmmm. Apparently neither the MWC nor TCU was listening to me. This is great for BSU, now they can go to another shit conference with no automatic bid. Sucks that BYU, TCU, and Utah are all leaving.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by molson

The BCS bid is almost easier without them (if the non-AQ conferences hold on to their collective automatic bid).

Who's going to compete for that every year besides Boise St? Nevada, I guess.

I meant in terms of getting AQ status.

[ISiddiqui]

Knowing the BCS, do you think a conference even with Utah, Boise, TCU, and BYU would have gotten an automatic bid? Especially when you consider some of the attendance and TV ratings for the lower tier? The BCS conferences would fight that with every fiber of their beings.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I think they are clearly the best option for the Big East.

It will be interesting to see how they do, particularly in recruiting, as a member of a BCS conference.

I imagine that we will get an announcement from Villanova pretty soon. I expect that they will decide not to move up and that UCF (for all sports) or possibly Temple (football only) will get the 10th spot.

The loss of Utah, BYU, and TCU will enable the BCS to keep the MWC out as an AQ, I suspect.

This likely kills the Marshall series. Finally.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Knowing the BCS, do you think a conference even with Utah, Boise, TCU, and BYU would have gotten an automatic bid? Especially when you consider some of the attendance and TV ratings for the lower tier? The BCS conferences would fight that with every fiber of their beings.

I think they would've met a lot of the success criteria for an automatic bid. Not to mention the saber-rattling from Orrin Hatch...

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I think they would've met a lot of the success criteria for an automatic bid. Not to mention the saber-rattling from Orrin Hatch...

BCS has nothing to do with success. Otherwise conferences like the Big East and ACC would have lost their bids during down years. It's about controlling the postseason money.

[ISiddiqui]

And let's be honest, the Big East, as a whole, brings in more money than even a MWC with Utah, Boise, TCU, and BYU would, simply due to TV deals, media markets, and stadium attendance.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Way to ruin the Mountain West, assholes. We would have a BCS bid if TCU, Utah, and BYU had all stayed.

They were only in the league for five years and well, once Utah and BYU left..there wasn't really a point in hanging around. It's all about the low-hanging fruit.

They're not going to add a 7th AQ conference, but if they're going to..it'll go to the MWC. Boise State's performance as well as TCU's will be counted for the Mountain West, based on the strange calculation formula the BCS will use to figure out the next AQ cycle. So TCU isn't hurting the league by leaving when it is for AQ purposes. That's Utah and BYU that you can blame for that.

Or the stupid league commissioner for creating that horrible TV network that affects the marquee program's ability to showcase themselves a la Boise on ESPN regularly.

[Young Drachma]

Dola --

I wonder who program #18 will be. UCF seems likely, but I wonder if they won't try to double dip in Texas and give TCU a travel partner. (SMU, Houston?) I think Villanova will opt for what Montana did and choose not to move up in the end, which seems smart.

The talk of splitting the basketball league up into two separate 9-team divisions is the new talk, with each getting their own tournament berth. But everyone would want to play with the UConn, Syracuse, et. al. league and not the USF, TCU, DePaul division. I don't think the two berth thing would realistically happen, mind you...but in an 18-team behemoth, seems like...something to think about.

Boeheim said he would not oppose breaking the Big East into basketball divisions, a possibility that would become more realistic if the Big East were to expand to 18 teams. (The Big East currently plays as one 16-team league in basketball, and could do the same with 17 teams, with the only difference being teams would play two teams twice each year instead of three.)

“If you go to 18, you have to have divisions and figure out how you do it,” Boeheim said. “It took us three 12-hour days to get the divisions the last time, and at the end of it, no one was happy with the divisions you have.

“No one is ever going to be happy. They all want certain teams in their divisions.”

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

BCS has nothing to do with success. Otherwise conferences like the Big East and ACC would have lost their bids during down years. It's about controlling the postseason money.

Even during their down years, the Big East and ACC have been far superior to any of the non-AQ conferences in average rank of highest BCS team, average computer conference ranking, and percentage of teams within the top 25. Those are the three parameters that determine automatic bids.

When a team has done very well in a non-AQ conference, they have made the BCS. If or once those conferences get as competitive from top to bottom, they can earn an automatic bid, as well.

The BCS does what it is designed to do -- it matches up the top 2 ranked teams in the country and allows the champions from the top conferences to play in games against one another and other top teams. It has also allowed teams like Hawaii, Boise State, Utah, and TCU to play in prestigious bowls, with large payouts, that they normally would not have access to.

We know it is not a postseason tournament. Until the NCAA agrees to a playoff, the BCS does a good job of matching up the top 2 teams.

[Abe Sargent]

Plus remember that in an 8 team league, you are more likely to have a down year where no one gets double digit years than in a 12 team league. That's just the facts. Expansion is good for that reason alone. I don;'t like the TCU add from a WVU/Pitt/V Tech perspective, but since the Hokies left us (bastards), this seems like a good marriage of convenience for now. We all knows is temporary. The Big 12 will add TCU after it gets some more prestige from being in a BCS conf and proves it belongs with the big boys.

Also remember, that its two ex-Big East teams that are running the ACC for the last decade (V Tech and Boston College)

2005 - FSU beats V Tech in ACC Championship
2006 - Wake Forest vs Ga Tech (Va Tech was ranked)
2007 - V Tech vs BC
2008 - V Tech vs BC
2009 - GA Tech vs Clemson
2010 - FSU and V Tech again

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

BCS has nothing to do with success. Otherwise conferences like the Big East and ACC would have lost their bids during down years. It's about controlling the postseason money.

Wrong:

http://www.bcsfootball.org/news/story?id=5126859

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Dola --

I wonder who program #18 will be. UCF seems likely, but I wonder if they won't try to double dip in Texas and give TCU a travel partner. (SMU, Houston?) I think Villanova will opt for what Montana did and choose not to move up in the end, which seems smart.

The talk of splitting the basketball league up into two separate 9-team divisions is the new talk, with each getting their own tournament berth. But everyone would want to play with the UConn, Syracuse, et. al. league and not the USF, TCU, DePaul division. I don't think the two berth thing would realistically happen, mind you...but in an 18-team behemoth, seems like...something to think about.

I would love to have Rutgers in the TCU, Depaul, USF, Providence, Seton Hall division.

[Marmel]

Originally Posted by General Mike

I would love to have Rutgers in the TCU, Depaul, USF, Providence, Seton Hall division.

And they would all love to have Rutgers.

[Logan]

You haven't been paying attention if you think the Rutgers basketball program isn't turning around.

[Marmel]

Originally Posted by Logan

You haven't been paying attention if you think the Rutgers basketball program isn't turning around.

A couple of recruits is turning it around?

[Logan]

Seven, actually, for 2011, which puts the class at #15 in the rankings, and a top 50 player for 2012. No one is saying that the team will be competing with Cuse, Nova, Pitt, etc just yet but the momentum is there. Certainly enough where those programs listed wouldn't be begging to play them.

That's an actual explanation for you, in case you were trying to be more than just a dick.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Wrong:

AQ conferences could grow by one in 2012

Still wouldn't qualify under that criteria. Funny though as that criteria makes the Big East and ACC look stronger than the Big 10 and Pac-10.

[Marmel]

Originally Posted by Logan

Seven, actually, for 2011, which puts the class at #15 in the rankings, and a top 50 player for 2012. No one is saying that the team will be competing with Cuse, Nova, Pitt, etc just yet but the momentum is there. Certainly enough where those programs listed wouldn't be begging to play them.

That's an actual explanation for you, in case you were trying to be more than just a dick.

Seven, with 2 being 4* but one of them looking more like a 3*. Will they all pan out? Of course not. You have to hope the 4* guy does along with a couple others. You hope the coach can actually coach on gameday, win a few more games each year and the recruiting continues to improve.

When they have a winning record and a couple year history of respectable recruiting, then you can say they are turning a corner.

Getting some guys (and let's face it, signing 7 guys 3* or better gets you a #15 ranking, but that is quanity over quality at this point) and losing to Princeton and St. Joe's is not quite turning it around yet.


At best, you can say Rice looks like he might be able to turn it around in the future. The Big East is relentless on a night in-night out basis.

Hell, my team is full of 4* & 5* recruits and a Hall of Fame coach and might struggle to finish top 4 this year.


Edited to say that Fab Melo is actually the only 5* but just about everyone else is 4*. And Fab sucks so far.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Marmel

And Fab sucks so far.

It looks like he's taken over the Craig Forth "start, but then play only 5-10 minutes" role.

At least this makes it less likely he's one-and-done. I guess.