2009 MLB Regular Season Thread - Page 65

johnnyshaka · 07-22-2009, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I know you were kidding but that stat line did make me curious.

Coming into today, he's 0-14 with RISP, but he's walked four times and scored all four. He's hitting .400 with nobody on base (16-40) and .087 (2-23) with anybody on base. That is pretty much anti-clutch.

Small sample size...sure, but today he was 3 for 4 with a homer and 2 doubles. The only time he was at the plate with a man on he ended up striking out. Crazy.

dawgfan · 07-22-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

That's what pisses me off more than anything...the last place team should get the best player at the draft...not the most signable. And having to worry about the player's agent is ridiculous. There is enough risk in the draft why does an agent have come into play?

Argh.

Um, because the players have some rights as well?

I'm no big fan of Boras by any stretch, but let's be clear here - he's just the agent. Strasburg is his boss. If Strasburg doesn't like the way Boras is negotiating on his behalf, he can fire him and hire someone else. Ultimate responsibility for anything Boras does rests with the players that employ him.

And if you were an amateur baseball prospect, you'd sure as hell appreciate the way Boras would fight to get you as much as you were worth.

DaddyTorgo · 07-22-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I guess the way to pitch to him is to intentionally walk the guy in front of him.

LMAO

Crapshoot · 07-22-2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

That's what pisses me off more than anything...the last place team should get the best player at the draft...not the most signable. And having to worry about the player's agent is ridiculous. There is enough risk in the draft why does an agent have come into play?

Argh.

WTF? Do players have rights, or are they supposed to kiss their stars for having employment? This kind of "OMG ITS A GAME" thing really bothers me; this may be the only contract he ever gets, and he should do everything he can to maximize it/

johnnyshaka · 07-22-2009, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Um, because the players have some rights as well?

I'm no big fan of Boras by any stretch, but let's be clear here - he's just the agent. Strasburg is his boss. If Strasburg doesn't like the way Boras is negotiating on his behalf, he can fire him and hire someone else. Ultimate responsibility for anything Boras does rests with the players that employ him.

And if you were an amateur baseball prospect, you'd sure as hell appreciate the way Boras would fight to get you as much as you were worth.

How many innings has Strasburg pitched in the MLB so far? How many wins or Cy Youngs does he have already? And he's going to command how many millions before doing any of the above? That doesn't seem a little backwards to you?

JonInMiddleGA · 07-22-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

How many innings has Strasburg pitched in the MLB so far? How many wins or Cy Youngs does he have already? And he's going to command how many millions before doing any of the above? That doesn't seem a little backwards to you?

Not if there's a team willing to give it to him for his potential future production.

molson · 07-22-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

How many innings has Strasburg pitched in the MLB so far? How many wins or Cy Youngs does he have already? And he's going to command how many millions before doing any of the above? That doesn't seem a little backwards to you?

The only thing that matters is how things end up for him.

If this ruins his career, then it's backwards.

If this allows him to eventually make more money somewhere else than he would with the Nationals, then it was clearly a good move.

I think you're making a broader point about the MLB draft rules, but Boras/Strasburg are not and should not be sympathetic to things like that. Boras' job is making the right deal for Strasburg, that's it, not to make Nationals fans happy, and not to work a "fair" deal for the other side considering Strasburg' lack of experience.

The only check on Boras' aggresiveness is that teams may not want to deal with him, and his guys may drop in the draft. There's always some grumbling about that, but is doesn't seem to be the case yet.

Travis · 07-22-2009, 03:44 PM

I think the issue is more MLB than Boras. He's operating within the framework he's given. I have a similar issue with the NFL where guys coming out of college are making more (at least the top picks) than perennial stars at their positions. At least with football you can defend it a bit given how violent the sport is and how predominant injuries are compared to other sports, but still, it doesn't seem right that guys who have never played an inning/quarter are making more than guys who are on second/third contracts (especially given how the MLB draft setup is) and have proven themselves as top tier players in the league.

So while I may not be a Boras fan, hard to fault him for pushing the limits given to him by the league. Hopefully this spurs some changes to the format that'll result in a better (for the sport) system, whatever that may be (as I'm sure we all have our own opinions on that front).

Ronnie Dobbs2 · 07-22-2009, 03:45 PM

Actually, it seems quite forwards to me. It's the restriction of their ability to work for wages that reflect their skills that seems backwards to me.

BishopMVP · 07-22-2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

How many innings has Strasburg pitched in the MLB so far? How many wins or Cy Youngs does he have already? And he's going to command how many millions before doing any of the above? That doesn't seem a little backwards to you?

No. It's "a game we'd all love to play for free as our job", but it's also his profession, and if he can ensure his future financial stability based off this contract, he needs to do so.

I know actual law might be/is different, but drafts violate antitrust rulings in the first place imo. I don't think a union should be able to negotiate constraints on a future group of players it doesn't represent at the time.

DeToxRox · 07-22-2009, 05:05 PM

So as much as I bash on Inge, he is winning me over. Apparently he is playing with what they're saying is 75% of a tendon torn and he won't go on the DL. It's been like this since before the ASB and he hasn't complained, just kept playing. He might consider surgery but anything that might end his season he is saying he won't bother with. Obviously right now it hasn't been a detriment on his play but once it gets there, if it does anyway, it could obviously become a problem.

Still, the dude is a warrior.

DeToxRox · 07-22-2009, 05:27 PM

Inge has left patella tendon tear

It amounts to 75 percent of one of the three strands that make up the patella (knee cap) tendon - so he can play on it, but that's why you see him favoring his left knee.

Inge said he would agree to go on the 15-day disabled list if he could be told his absence would last no more than 15 days and that he would be pain-free the rest of the year when he returns.

The medical staff can't make those guarantees, however, so it's Inge's belief he will play with pain the rest of the year. He also said it's excruciating pain at times.

Ronnie Dobbs2 · 07-22-2009, 05:43 PM

Hey the Red Sox got something for Julio Lugo!

ISiddiqui · 07-22-2009, 05:47 PM

Chris Duncan actually has a lower OPS+ this year than Lugo does (84 to 85), LOL!

Ronnie Dobbs2 · 07-22-2009, 05:54 PM

I repeat: The Sox got something for Julio Lugo!

ISiddiqui · 07-22-2009, 06:32 PM

One wonders if Cards fans are saying: The Cards got something for Chris Duncan!

After all, the Sox are still on the hook for the huge salary they offered to Lugo.

Ronnie Dobbs2 · 07-22-2009, 06:33 PM

The point you are missing, I'd say, is that they were going to release him, and pay his full salary. That they got something, now matter how shitty you may think that something is, surprised me.

dawgfan · 07-22-2009, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

How many innings has Strasburg pitched in the MLB so far? How many wins or Cy Youngs does he have already? And he's going to command how many millions before doing any of the above? That doesn't seem a little backwards to you?

Not in the least. If there were no draft and he were a free agent, how much would he command?

Consider the fact that in baseball, most players reach peak performance while still under club control and are thus vastly underpaid compared to what they'd command on the open market. If Strasburg is close to as good as his hype (and is healthy for the duration of the time he's under club control to the Nats) he'll be vastly underpaid compared to what he'd command on the open market, even considering the possibility that he signs for something massive like $30M.

Once again, think about this from the perspective of the player in question - why shouldn't they try to maximize their value at this one point in time when they hold some leverage, considering that once they sign they will lose most leverage for several years and have a very good chance of being severely underpaid for their performance?

JonInMiddleGA · 07-22-2009, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

Yeah. This has been absolutely ugly so far. If they can't win with Lincecum going tomorrow, then I'll start to get rather worried.

I hate to do this since it'll probably jinx Jair for the rest of the night.

Lincecum's line for the night: 5 IP, 7H, 4ER, 2BB, 9K, 1HR

Braves lead 4-0 after 5 1/2, Jurrjens has allowed only an early single to Benji Molina.

edit to add: FWIW, on Braves radio, Don Sutton was talking about his location just being off by enough tonight to create a couple of opportunities for hitters which they took full advantage of.

DaddyTorgo · 07-22-2009, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Not in the least. If there were no draft and he were a free agent, how much would he command?

Consider the fact that in baseball, most players reach peak performance while still under club control and are thus vastly underpaid compared to what they'd command on the open market. If Strasburg is close to as good as his hype (and is healthy for the duration of the time he's under club control to the Nats) he'll be vastly underpaid compared to what he'd command on the open market, even considering the possibility that he signs for something massive like $30M.

Once again, think about this from the perspective of the player in question - why shouldn't they try to maximize their value at this one point in time when they hold some leverage, considering that once they sign they will lose most leverage for several years and have a very good chance of being severely underpaid for their performance?

that's 2 big IF's

BishopMVP · 07-22-2009, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

You know the Mets are in bad shape when, as a fan, you see an ESPN headline of "Report: Mets exec dares prospects to fight him" and not only are you not surprised that it took place, but you don't even need a half of a second of thinking to know that it's Tony Bernazard and that this is the guy who Minaya relies on more than any other.

From a poster on a different board who played with Bernazard's son on a Legion team.

Quote:

Well, I forgot the most diabolical thing about him.

He has three sons. When his youngest two sons were old enough, he put them through a tryout. The tryout was to decide which one he was going direct his undivided attention to and raise to be a professional baseball player. He certainly didn't want to spread himself too thin and train both his younger sons to be pro players, so he had to choose one. The youngest one won out. He ended up playing at Jacksonville University, but he may have dropped out or been cut.

He would also show up to his son's little league games wearing his full Cleveland Indians uniform.

Lathum · 07-22-2009, 08:37 PM

The Mets are the worst team in baseball.

dawgfan · 07-22-2009, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

that's 2 big IF's

Sure, but the point is to illustrate the fact that players earn far less in their club-controlled years than they would on the open market. Because of the way the system currently works, players sacrifice a great deal of their real worth, presumably for the benefit of the sport as a whole (the suppressed salary structure for young players allows small-revenue teams to have a chance at succeeding).

TheNorm · 07-22-2009, 09:12 PM

Damn you, Bobby Seay.

JeeberD · 07-22-2009, 10:24 PM

Neuqua · 07-22-2009, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Yes.

lighthousekeeper · 07-22-2009, 11:28 PM

this is fun

johnnyshaka · 07-23-2009, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Once again, think about this from the perspective of the player in question - why shouldn't they try to maximize their value at this one point in time when they hold some leverage, considering that once they sign they will lose most leverage for several years and have a very good chance of being severely underpaid for their performance?

If I'm the player in question I would be thinking about passing up whatever deal is on the table now and then what could happen when I throw my arm out pitching for some independent league team who doesn't give two shits about what happens to me so long as I'm on the mound as often as possible so tickets get sold.

I might be thinking about what might happen if I don't pitch as well as I have been lately and after re-entering the draft I could slide a few spots...or rounds. Whoops.

I'm also thinking about the fact that I'm going to hit free agency one year later because I'm holding out for a extra mil or two (no idea what Stras has been offered/is expecting) now meanwhile I could be giving up 10's of millions of dollars for what would've been my first year of free agency.

k0ruptr · 07-23-2009, 12:33 AM

Chisox within 1 of the tigers!

stevew · 07-23-2009, 12:38 AM

I'm really not convinced that Boras is capable of negotiating in good faith.

The whole Alvarez thing last year really pissed me off. I think there's really a difference between doing right for your client, and flat out being a sleazebag.

And anyways, the whole draft process is whacked. The fact that the Nats(or any other team in the draft with their slot) can't flip him like an asset is fundamentally broken.

Crapshoot · 07-23-2009, 02:03 AM

The Alvarez thing, where the Pirates unilaterally got an exception and leverage that the guy wasn't aware of? Man, Bud Selig is the fucking sleazebag there; its completely unfair to tell the player this is the deadline, but tell the team, actually, you can extend it 5 min and no worries. It takes remarkable chuptzah to blame that on the kid.

Karlifornia · 07-23-2009, 02:06 AM

Let's not leave San Diego out of this

Atocep · 07-23-2009, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

The Alvarez thing, where the Pirates unilaterally got an exception and leverage that the guy wasn't aware of? Man, Bud Selig is the fucking sleazebag there; its completely unfair to tell the player this is the deadline, but tell the team, actually, you can extend it 5 min and no worries. It takes remarkable chuptzah to blame that on the kid.

The problem there was Alvarez and Hosmer both agreed to deals after the deadline because they got extensions from MLB, but the one Boras had a problem with was Alvarez's. He got a grievance filed on the Alvarez deal, but kept quiet about Hosmer's because he was happy with the money.

Ronnie Dobbs2 · 07-23-2009, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

The Mets are the worst team in baseball.

Dr. Sak · 07-23-2009, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

The Mets are the worst team in baseball.

At least they won't toy with your emotions and break your heart at the end of the year again.

Logan · 07-23-2009, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

At least they won't toy with your emotions and break your heart at the end of the year again.

Nope, waiting for that last win which will move us from the #3 pick to #4 and miss out on Strasburg.

hoopsguy · 07-23-2009, 02:28 PM

Looking at the boxscore, it seems something kind of cool is in progress at US Cellular field.

hoopsguy · 07-23-2009, 02:28 PM

Through 6 innings.

JPhillips · 07-23-2009, 02:30 PM

Logan · 07-23-2009, 02:32 PM

Now all we need is a guy to come out and say it while still playing...

Jim Parque's confession that he used HGH draws ambivalence and admiration among the Chicago White Sox - ESPN Chicago

DeToxRox · 07-23-2009, 02:34 PM

Looks like Mark Buerhle is throwing a No Hitter. Perhaps a Perfect Game. Can he keep up his No Hit - Perfect Game bid? I surely hope he can keep up his No Hit bid.

larrymcg421 · 07-23-2009, 02:41 PM

Time to lay down a bunt!

hoopsguy · 07-23-2009, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Looks like Mark Buerhle is throwing a No Hitter. Perhaps a Perfect Game. Can he keep up his No Hit - Perfect Game bid? I surely hope he can keep up his No Hit bid.

I'm all for this, given that the Cubs are my team. It is a perfect game through seven.

stevew · 07-23-2009, 02:52 PM

why aren't you supposed to talk about a no hitter?

kingfc22 · 07-23-2009, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

why aren't you supposed to talk about a no hitter?

I guess if you say something about a no-hitter, then somebody gets a hit.
No-hitter, no-hitter, no-hitter

JetsIn06 · 07-23-2009, 03:01 PM

Holy crap that was close.

kingfc22 · 07-23-2009, 03:03 PM

Zito is going to be the guy to stop the losing streak...Who would have thunk it.

Logan · 07-23-2009, 03:07 PM

I predict a 2-out HR by Bartlett.

JetsIn06 · 07-23-2009, 03:07 PM

Here we go...going into the 9th.

I'm a Rays fan but this would be pretty special to see.

Jas_lov · 07-23-2009, 03:09 PM

LOL, sick catch. Just 1 out away now.

07-22-2009, 03:44 PM	#3208
Travis Pro Rookie Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Canada eh	I think the issue is more MLB than Boras. He's operating within the framework he's given. I have a similar issue with the NFL where guys coming out of college are making more (at least the top picks) than perennial stars at their positions. At least with football you can defend it a bit given how violent the sport is and how predominant injuries are compared to other sports, but still, it doesn't seem right that guys who have never played an inning/quarter are making more than guys who are on second/third contracts (especially given how the MLB draft setup is) and have proven themselves as top tier players in the league. So while I may not be a Boras fan, hard to fault him for pushing the limits given to him by the league. Hopefully this spurs some changes to the format that'll result in a better (for the sport) system, whatever that may be (as I'm sure we all have our own opinions on that front). __________________ "I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." - Rogers Hornsby

07-22-2009, 03:45 PM	#3209
Ronnie Dobbs2 Pro Rookie Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Bahston Mass	Actually, it seems quite forwards to me. It's the restriction of their ability to work for wages that reflect their skills that seems backwards to me. __________________ There's no I in Teamocil, at least not where you'd think

07-22-2009, 05:43 PM	#3213
Ronnie Dobbs2 Pro Rookie Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Bahston Mass	Hey the Red Sox got something for Julio Lugo! __________________ There's no I in Teamocil, at least not where you'd think

07-22-2009, 05:47 PM	#3214
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	Chris Duncan actually has a lower OPS+ this year than Lugo does (84 to 85), LOL! __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

07-22-2009, 05:54 PM	#3215
Ronnie Dobbs2 Pro Rookie Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Bahston Mass	I repeat: The Sox got something for Julio Lugo! __________________ There's no I in Teamocil, at least not where you'd think

07-22-2009, 05:05 PM	#3211
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	So as much as I bash on Inge, he is winning me over. Apparently he is playing with what they're saying is 75% of a tendon torn and he won't go on the DL. It's been like this since before the ASB and he hasn't complained, just kept playing. He might consider surgery but anything that might end his season he is saying he won't bother with. Obviously right now it hasn't been a detriment on his play but once it gets there, if it does anyway, it could obviously become a problem. Still, the dude is a warrior.

07-22-2009, 05:27 PM	#3212
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	Inge has left patella tendon tear It amounts to 75 percent of one of the three strands that make up the patella (knee cap) tendon - so he can play on it, but that's why you see him favoring his left knee. Inge said he would agree to go on the 15-day disabled list if he could be told his absence would last no more than 15 days and that he would be pain-free the rest of the year when he returns. The medical staff can't make those guarantees, however, so it's Inge's belief he will play with pain the rest of the year. He also said it's excruciating pain at times.

07-22-2009, 06:32 PM	#3216
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	One wonders if Cards fans are saying: The Cards got something for Chris Duncan! After all, the Sox are still on the hook for the huge salary they offered to Lugo. __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

07-22-2009, 06:33 PM	#3217
Ronnie Dobbs2 Pro Rookie Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Bahston Mass	The point you are missing, I'd say, is that they were going to release him, and pay his full salary. That they got something, now matter how shitty you may think that something is, surprised me. __________________ There's no I in Teamocil, at least not where you'd think Last edited by Ronnie Dobbs2 : 07-22-2009 at 06:33 PM.

07-22-2009, 08:37 PM	#3222
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	The Mets are the worst team in baseball.

07-22-2009, 09:12 PM	#3224
TheNorm Mascot Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Chicago, IL	Damn you, Bobby Seay.

07-22-2009, 10:24 PM	#3225
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	__________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

07-22-2009, 11:28 PM	#3227
lighthousekeeper College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	this is fun __________________ ...

07-23-2009, 12:33 AM	#3229
k0ruptr Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Las Vegas	Chisox within 1 of the tigers!

07-23-2009, 12:38 AM	#3230
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	I'm really not convinced that Boras is capable of negotiating in good faith. The whole Alvarez thing last year really pissed me off. I think there's really a difference between doing right for your client, and flat out being a sleazebag. And anyways, the whole draft process is whacked. The fact that the Nats(or any other team in the draft with their slot) can't flip him like an asset is fundamentally broken.

07-23-2009, 02:03 AM	#3231
Crapshoot Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Dec 2003	The Alvarez thing, where the Pirates unilaterally got an exception and leverage that the guy wasn't aware of? Man, Bud Selig is the fucking sleazebag there; its completely unfair to tell the player this is the deadline, but tell the team, actually, you can extend it 5 min and no worries. It takes remarkable chuptzah to blame that on the kid.

07-23-2009, 02:06 AM	#3232
Karlifornia Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: San Jose, CA	Let's not leave San Diego out of this __________________ Look into the mind of a crazy man (NSFW) http://www.whitepowerupdate.wordpress.com

07-23-2009, 02:28 PM	#3237
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Looking at the boxscore, it seems something kind of cool is in progress at US Cellular field.

07-23-2009, 02:28 PM	#3238
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Through 6 innings.

07-23-2009, 02:30 PM	#3239
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	__________________ To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers

07-23-2009, 02:32 PM	#3240
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	Now all we need is a guy to come out and say it while still playing... Jim Parque's confession that he used HGH draws ambivalence and admiration among the Chicago White Sox - ESPN Chicago

07-23-2009, 02:34 PM	#3241
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	Looks like Mark Buerhle is throwing a No Hitter. Perhaps a Perfect Game. Can he keep up his No Hit - Perfect Game bid? I surely hope he can keep up his No Hit bid.

07-23-2009, 02:41 PM	#3242
larrymcg421 Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Georgia	Time to lay down a bunt! __________________ Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner

07-23-2009, 02:52 PM	#3244
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	why aren't you supposed to talk about a no hitter?

07-23-2009, 03:01 PM	#3246
JetsIn06 Pro Rookie Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rahway, NJ	Holy crap that was close.

07-23-2009, 03:03 PM	#3247
kingfc22 Head Coach Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Morgan Hill, CA	Zito is going to be the guy to stop the losing streak...Who would have thunk it. __________________ Fan of SF Giants, 49ers, Sharks, Arsenal

07-23-2009, 03:07 PM	#3248
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	I predict a 2-out HR by Bartlett.

07-23-2009, 03:07 PM	#3249
JetsIn06 Pro Rookie Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rahway, NJ	Here we go...going into the 9th. I'm a Rays fan but this would be pretty special to see.

07-23-2009, 03:09 PM	#3250
Jas_lov College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	LOL, sick catch. Just 1 out away now.

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