Obama versus McCain (versus the rest)

[Flasch186]

Ok, assuming all the speeches are written by pros on both sides...this speech just isnt very good and this past 2 weeks we've seen some spectacular speeches, truly. Obama's and Palin's were masterful....

this one is the worst of them all I think. Granted Im sure I didnt see ALL of the speeches of ALL of the days but this seems to be the most disconnected, most interrupted (unfortunately), most poorly executed, etc. This writer needed help, apparently. Now perhaps its a better speech on paper but he needs to understand his deliverer and if it's a known struggler than he needed to tweak it for that....you have to know your audience...but you also have to know who's at the podium.

sorry, thats my opinion

[Jas_lov]

Yep, it's a good thing McCain has Palin because he's really dull.

[JPhillips]

That was an odd section. We messed this up...we messed that up...and now we're going to fix it.

The Republicans screwed up government, vote Republican, argument seems really difficult to pull off.

[Swaggs]

Dull and awkward up front, but he seems to be hitting his stride in talking about core GOP positions.

I really don't see Americans going for the veteran senator offering reform/change in Washington.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Ok, assuming all the speeches are written by pros on both sides...this speech just isnt very good and this past 2 weeks we've seen some spectacular speeches, truly. Obama's and Palin's were masterful....

this one is the worst of them all I think. Granted Im sure I didnt see ALL of the speeches of ALL of the days but this seems to be the most disconnected, most interrupted (unfortunately), most poorly executed, etc. This writer needed help, apparently. Now perhaps its a better speech on paper but he needs to understand his deliverer and if it's a known struggler than he needed to tweak it for that....you have to know your audience...but you also have to know who's at the podium.

sorry, thats my opinion

He's coming off worse than W would've right now. I mean, McCain is better unscripted anyway. He is, if nothing else...being specific enough to clarify the difference between the Dems and the GOP. And he's been way less technical in his speech than Barry. Though Obama is getting way better at it.

He's improved this whole cycle, I can't see him slaying the Clintons and choking on a guy who W beat in 2000. It'll be close from now 'til November, but the GOP sales pitch is a moving target just like the Clintons was. Even if they slime, I can't see how they emerge from this thing with a win.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

They'll get their ATM machine fired up again for the last stretch of the race. No way the people they've stoked up are gonna quit now. The last 45 days of this race are gonna be nothing like we've seen before.

That's crazy talk, why...wait, what's that?

CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - After Palin speech, Obama has record $10 million day « - Blogs from CNN.com

After Palin speech, Obama has record $10 million day
Posted: 08:50 PM ET

(CNN) – Barack Obama's campaign for president has raised $10 million since Republican vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin spoke Wednesday night, the campaign announced, calling it a "one-day record."

Palin, the governor of Alaska, launched harsh attacks on Obama, accusing him of being two-faced and a political lightweight with no significant legislative accomplishments.

"Coverage of the Palin attacks on the news this evening just pushed us over $10 million," Obama spokeswoman Jen Psaki said in an e-mail to reporters Wednesday night.

The Republican Party announced earlier in the day it had raised $1 million in the wake of Palin's speech.

[Flasch186]

Wow, his description of what he'll do is scaring me, and I would think, scaring middle class Americans.

Whew, Either McCain's Stamina rating is in the 30's (2k7) or it seems he's getting worse as we go along and the audience is getting lost. Holy shit he's struggling now.

nice closeup of the kid yawning in the audience.

[DaddyTorgo]

as i've said in the past flasch - according to Romney, McCain simply is NOT capable of delivering a prepared speech. I have no doubt his handlers and writers tried their asses off (they don't want to fail after all), but there's only so much they can do.

[Jas_lov]

This is just terrible. It's past McCain's bedtime. He doesn't even look interested.

[larrymcg421]

Who the fuck thought it was a good idea for the McCain campaign to start talking about change? That's an incredibly stupid thing to start focusing his campaign on.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I can't see how they emerge from this thing with a win.

The formula for that will actually be simple: just keep reminding voters who McCain is running against. That ought to be just enough to do it. Hardly anybody voting for McCain is particularly happy about it, but if he doesn't screw up majorly being "not Obama" should pull him through.

[Swaggs]

Wow... I'm not liking his educational philosophies.

I guess he doesn't realize that there is already a teacher shortage and that there are not a whole lot of charter school spots available in all areas.

[sabotai]

I feel like I've heard about this policy plan of his 8 years ago...

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Who the fuck thought it was a good idea for the McCain campaign to start talking about change? That's an incredibly stupid thing to start focusing his campaign on.

EXACTLY!

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The formula for that will actually be simple: just keep reminding voters who McCain is running against. That ought to be just enough to do it. Hardly anybody voting for McCain is particularly happy about it, but if he doesn't screw up majorly being "not Obama" should pull him through.

Yeah, but how did that work for Kerry in 2004? Look, I have no doubt this election is about Obama, but it seems to me the McCain has every incentive to try and change it to at least try and sell his own story - push his way into the limelight.

[Flasch186]

wrap it up with Al Qaeda.....recipe for success.

[Swaggs]

I think I just saw Rudy, on the sidelines, mouthing "Don't forget to mention 9/11!"

[JPhillips]

Did he just say Obama doesn't have scars?

[Flasch186]

Well to follow up on my opinion of this:

Im sure it's good enough for his base BUT I wonder if he didnt lose some of the middle with his performance tonight. It was truly a below average performance for any public speaking and Im not saying its fair to judge specifically on these nights but we've given credit where it was due so it's only fair to lay blame when it's called for too. It almost feels like a High School Gymnasium motivational speaker.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

That was an odd section. We messed this up...we messed that up...and now we're going to fix it.

The Republicans screwed up government, vote Republican, argument seems really difficult to pull off.

As a liberal I'll gladly admit my group has its own shortcomings but the inherent contradiction of most conservative arguments just drives me up the wall -- McCain railed against Obama for promoting bureacracy, then launched into how he wants the federal government hiring and firing teachers in my local school.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Yeah, but how did that work for Kerry in 2004?

I started to make reference to that but I figured the difference would be obvious: McCain is running against Obama 08, not Bush 04.

Besides, what other choice for strategy does McCain really have? Even most of the people who are planning to vote for him aren't very happy about it. There's nothing he can do to significantly change that without alienating the voters he already has. If he doesn't run "against Obama", he's toast. If he does, I genuinely believe he's got a very good chance of winning in spite of himself. And if he doesn't then we'll get exactly what we deserve.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Well to follow up on my opinion of this:

Im sure it's good enough for his base BUT I wonder if he didnt lose some of the middle with his performance tonight. It was truly a below average performance for any public speaking and Im not saying its fair to judge specifically on these nights but we've given credit where it was due so it's only fair to lay blame when it's called for too.

McCain is a horrific speaker, but he is probably the most moderate of the 4 republican/democrat president/VP candidates. His message and intentions didn't lose me (mr. Moderate voter). His choice of backing down to the religious right and choosing their candidate along with her beliefs is what lost me previously. McCain could have won this election I think if he (or someone) finally realized that there is a large number of centralist that want a candidate to speak to their interest for once. Not cater to the left or the right for a change. Out of the presidents in my life time, Clinton was the closest to achieving this goal.

[Young Drachma]

I would've voted for McCain 2000 over Obama. Now, I vote third party because I can choose an idealist, pragmatic and charismatic liberal who wants to help me save myself over a war hero who seems to think that wrapping his own ambition in the cloak of the American flag is worthy enough of my vote.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Alan T

McCain is a horrific speaker, but he is probably the most moderate of the 4 republican/democrat president/VP candidates.

To be fair, when the other 3 are Obama, Biden and Palin, it's not exactly difficult to be the most moderate of the group.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Alan T

McCain is a horrific speaker, but he is probably the most moderate of the 4 republican/democrat president/VP candidates. His message and intentions didn't lose me (mr. Moderate voter). His choice of backing down to the religious right and choosing their candidate along with her beliefs is what lost me previously. McCain could have won this election I think if he (or someone) finally realized that there is a large number of centralist that want a candidate to speak to their interest for once. Not cater to the left or the right for a change. Out of the presidents in my life time, Clinton was the closest to achieving this goal.

Yeah, but McCain probably wouldn't have been able to get the nomination and I think he realized that. Clinton did run a centrist campaign, but he had superior campaign skills and a much weaker field to run against. That Dem 92 field was horrific. It basically came down to him, Tsongas, and Jerry Brown.

[Flasch186]

McCain's telling us what to do to help our country, "...feed a homeless person, teach an [illiterate] to read,..." I gotta ask if that is as a community organizer?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

It was truly a below average performance for any public speaking

So in other words it was about the norm for McCain (I truly can't think of five people in my lifetime I thought were actually worse speakers if you actually listened to them, something I discovered long before this campaign started)

[Logan]

This final pump-up part of the speech is laughable given how poorly he is selling it.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

McCain's telling us what to do to help our country, "...feed a homeless person, teach an [illiterate] to read,..." I gotta ask if that is as a community organizer?

Heh, nice.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Logan

This final pump-up part of the speech is laughable given how poorly he is selling it.

I felt bad for the guy- it was painful to watch. McCain 2000 would have been fired up but he's just tired now.

SI

[ace1914]

That was brutal.

[Jas_lov]

The crowd is cheering that it's finally over. McCain inspired no one tonight.

[ace1914]

McCain is just too damn old. I think he was going the wrong way on the stage and Palin had to pull him in the correct direction. He was the absolute worst speaker at his own convention.

[Flasch186]

Heart's Barracuda is truly a nice touch, I love Heart.

[larrymcg421]

Pappy O"Daniel: "We need a shot in the arm. You hear me boys? In the goddamn arm! Election held tomorrw, that son of bitch Stokes would win it in a walk!"

Junior O'Daniel: "Well' he's the reform candidate, Daddy."

Pappy O"Daniel: "Yeah."

Junior O'Daniel: "A lot of people like that reform. Maybe we should get us some."

Pappy O"Daniel: "I'll reform you, you soft-headed son of a bitch. How we gonna run reform when we're the damn incumbent?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Take this FWIW ... my wife, very fiscal conservative, more socially moderate than any of you would ever believe possible just told me that I really missed it, that McCain just gave the speech of his life. As you might expect, my reaction included the phrase "that ain't saying much".

Fair notice, he had her vote regardless of what he said/did tonight, but she certainly seems more satisfied with that eventual vote than she was before the convention.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Alan T

McCain is a horrific speaker, but he is probably the most moderate of the 4 republican/democrat president/VP candidates. His message and intentions didn't lose me (mr. Moderate voter). His choice of backing down to the religious right and choosing their candidate along with her beliefs is what lost me previously. McCain could have won this election I think if he (or someone) finally realized that there is a large number of centralist that want a candidate to speak to their interest for once. Not cater to the left or the right for a change. Out of the presidents in my life time, Clinton was the closest to achieving this goal.

But Clinton didn't run as a moderate in 1992, that was a reaction to the asswhipping the Dems got in 1994. Clinton ran saying he'd raise taxes, balance the gap between rich and poor and add significant government control to healthcare. Sure he said he was a New Democrat and had the DLC, but his policies were fairly liberal.

[cartman]

After Obama got slammed by some here for not giving any details on how he planned to do the stuff he mentioned in his speech, I was sure glad that McCain gave details.

Oh, wait, he didn't either? Damn.

[ISiddiqui]

McCain was never considered a great speaker, but at least he articulated policy positions and economic plans.

Though it was funny when he was telling the crowd that the Republicans failed the people, the place got reeeeeeal quiet.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

McCain was never considered a great speaker, but at least he articulated policy positions and economic plans.

Heh.

[Flasch186]

you guys need to talk and get on the same page.

[ace1914]

Its amazing how different points of view, see the same event. Reading these comments, I feel like I'm reading "Vantage Point" script on FOFC.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by ace1914

Its amazing how different points of view, see the same event. Reading these comments, I feel like I'm reading "Vantage Point" on FOFC.

I'm disappointed in you. Rashomon would have been a much more elitist reference.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

But Clinton didn't run as a moderate in 1992, that was a reaction to the asswhipping the Dems got in 1994. Clinton ran saying he'd raise taxes, balance the gap between rich and poor and add significant government control to healthcare. Sure he said he was a New Democrat and had the DLC, but his policies were fairly liberal.

That might be so. I was 17 in the 1992 election and didn't vote until the 96 election when I did vote for Clinton (my first election voting).

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by cartman

After Obama got slammed by some here for not giving any details on how he planned to do the stuff he mentioned in his speech, I was sure glad that McCain gave details.

Oh, wait, he didn't either? Damn.

John McCain gave the detail that mattered, POW.

[ace1914]

Palin and Guiliani fucked him with those great speeches yesterday.

And then we had those idiots in the crowd. Protesting is cool, but that was completely uncalled for.

[SFL Cat]

Reverse the GOP ticket...now!

OT...we need a surge in Chicago

Nearly 125 Shot Dead In Chicago Over Summer - Total Is About Double The Death Toll In Iraq

[JPhillips]

McCain won't drop Palin, but can Palin drop McCain?

[Flasch186]

Ill take that as an SFL in agreement that McCain's speech wasn't very good...at least in comparison to Palin's.

Jeffrey Toobin on CNN says it was the worst speech by a nominee since Carter which I didnt hear obviously.

[ace1914]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Reverse the GOP ticket...now!

OT...we need a surge in Chicago

Nearly 125 Shot Dead In Chicago Over Summer - Total Is About Double The Death Toll In Iraq

I'm so glad, I went to college.