NFL Week 3 thread, Trent Richardson is a Colt

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

That guy has more lives than a cat though. It seems that we have been in a position where we think that every couple years and then he wins another Super Bowl.... (I hate that man)

This year seems different. Those other teams had a lot of talent and weren't performing, then got hot. This team doesn't have nearly the talent and is underperforming.

Originally Posted by Desnudo

He did just win a Super Bowl two seasons ago...

I'm not saying he is going to be or should be fired after this season, but they have had a pretty good run, at some point it was bound to end.

[Coffee Warlord]

Bears defense...opportunistic as hell (still), but the age is really showing this season.

[kingfc22]

Wow. What a catch by Brown.

[PurdueBrad]

WOW, what a grab!

[tucker rocky]

Do I smell a Bears letdown, now that they let the Steelers back in the game?

[Coffee Warlord]

Be nice if the Bears defense actually, you know, stopped someone.

[Coffee Warlord]

4th quarter is Jay Cutler time though!

[tucker rocky]

Hilarious play by Ben there.

[Coffee Warlord]

That looks dangerously like an MCL and/or ACL tear for Melton.

[Coffee Warlord]

That's a touchdown.

But it's not gonna be overturned.

[Coffee Warlord]

Wow. Did not expect that one to be overturned.

[hoopsguy]

Nice work by "the other" Bennett on the grab, as well as Collinsworth very quickly realizing that the foot did drag.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

4th quarter is Jay Cutler time though!

Jay Cutler time, bitches.

[hoopsguy]

Just crazy how many TDs the Bears defense have scored over the last 1+ seasons.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Good lord the Steelers are awful.

IS LONDON READY FOR STEELERS VS. VIKINGS?

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

They should count themselves lucky it's not the John Shoop era Bears.

Having flashbacks to late-'00s UNC, where he landed afterward. *shudders*

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by mckerney

IS LONDON READY FOR STEELERS VS. VIKINGS?

I expect full anarchy

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

You could argue that they are without their three best offensive players in Gronkowski, Amendola and Vereen.

I'm assuming you mean besides Brady?

[Suburban Rhythm]

what worse, steelers performance, or number of "Big Ben" jokes in London next week?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I'm assuming you mean besides Brady?

I'm sure he meant skill position players.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

what worse, steelers performance, or number of "Big Ben" jokes in London next week?

The Big Ben jokes will only be interrupted by comments about the Vikings pondering the QB position.

I think Roethlisberger should be fine if Brian Hoyer can throw for 300 yards and 3 TDs against Minnesota. In the case he is terrible it might not matter as it seems turning the ball over 4 times against the Vikings isn't going to hurt a teams chances of winning.

[Coffee Warlord]

Looks like Melton is indeed out for the year with an ACL tear.

[mckerney]

Jacoby Jones injured last night after being hit in the head witha champagne bottle by a stripper named Sweet Pea.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Jacoby Jones injured last night after being hit in the head witha champagne bottle by a stripper named Sweet Pea.

If I had a dollar for every time this happened to me...

[Bobble]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I'm sure he meant skill position players.

I know it's semantics but QB is skill position, no? "Skill position" as opposed to linemen, is that not right?

[Thomkal]

How's this for an injury: Cardinals safety Rashad Johnson injured his finger after tackling Saints RB Darren Sproles on a punt return. He went to the sidelines to have it checked, pulled his hand out of his glove, and the tip of his middle finger remained behind. Had to have surgery to shave the finger down to his first knuckle, and to make sure there was no infection from having the bone exposed. Ewwwww! He's somehow Day to Day now on the injury list.

My beloved Cardinals lost two of their starting linebackers to season ending injuries as well, so its pretty much game over for them this season.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...cardinals-game

[EagleFan]

Go Broncos!!! Run it up. Feel so satisfied that you overlook next week!

[BillJasper]

I'm starting to get a feeling that the only team that can stop the Broncos is the Broncos.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I'm starting to get a feeling that the only team that can stop the Broncos is the Broncos.

Seahawks/Broncos may have a date in New Jersey in February.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Seahawks/Broncos may have a date in New Jersey in February.

That was my son's pre-season SB pick. I disagreed with him but he knows much more about this than I do.

[ColtCrazy]

This team is just so smooth. Home Field will be decided in that KC, @ Pats, @ KC stretch. Go 2-1 then, and maybe one other loss, and I'm sold.

[EagleFan]

This scares me. With how crappy the Eagles defense is the Broncos are going to score 70 points next week...

[EagleFan]

dola: and that's if Vick plays a good game. If he plays his normal "I can't make smart decisions" game which leads to 4-5 turnovers it will be like an old time college score like 102-21.

[Travis]

As a Seahawks fan, I'd be fascinated to see how our D would match up with the Bronco's offense.

That said, Wilson would need to play the best game of his young career for the Seahawks to have a shot at winning that matchup.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by Bobble

I know it's semantics but QB is skill position, no? "Skill position" as opposed to linemen, is that not right?

Yes, it was poorly worded and probably should have read that "Brady is without his three best offensive weapons in Gronk, Amendola and Vereen." Obviously Brady (and even Logan Mankins) are amongst their best offensive players.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I'm starting to get a feeling that the only team that can stop the Broncos is the Broncos.

You must have overlooked their away game in Kansas City. I'm sure the crowd noise will allow the Chief's D line to get to Manning.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by ColtCrazy

Definitely. Not the Pats fault they got the start the season against the best of the Sun Belt. The D is playing great, though I want to see how they do next week against an angry Falcon team. And the 3-0 will only help once seeding comes in. The Bronco-Pat tilt probably decides the #1 seed tie breaker. No one in the North will keep up and Houston is suspect.

Bengals have a chance I think - they can get to 12 wins pretty easily (but I think the Ravens and Steelers are still getting slightly more respect than they should due to past success). Next 3 Pats games will be good - @ATL, @CIN, NO. Even 1-2 in that stretch and we're set up pretty well. One thing worth noting on the Pats-Broncos game - we have a Monday night game the week before, so 1 less day to prepare.

I still think people are also overselling the Broncos - I'd bet money on them losing 1 of their next 3 NFL games (Philly, @Dallas, @Indy). Kind of unfair they get a Bye Week 6 and Week 9.

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

Yes, it was poorly worded and probably should have read that "Brady is without his three best offensive weapons in Gronk, Amendola and Vereen." Obviously Brady (and even Logan Mankins) are amongst their best offensive players.

Even if we're talking O-Line, I'd put Solder and probably Vollmer ahead of Mankins (and Vereen) at this point - Mankins hasn't been as good as his rep for a couple seasons. I also think that people are overstating Vereen's impact a little bit at this point - I think he's talented, as week 1 showed, and should have gotten more touches last year, but he had 457 yards total from scrimmage in his 1st 2 NFL seasons.

[Matthean]

This looks to be the year ESPN has a weekly article on something covering Peyton and his family.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I want to know what kind of pizza is worth crashing your car into a guard rail & shattering your forearm, possibly ending your career & costing your team a pick in trading for a necessary replacement?

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

I want to know what kind of pizza is worth crashing your car into a guard rail & shattering your forearm, possibly ending your career & costing your team a pick in trading for a necessary replacement?

Probably macaroni and cheese or buffalo chicken, though possibly steak and fries too.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

I want to know what kind of pizza is worth crashing your car into a guard rail & shattering your forearm, possibly ending your career & costing your team a pick in trading for a necessary replacement?

Eh, I can see it happening. I know I've had moments where I have a bag of fast food in the passenger seat and I have to brake a little harder than I expected and the bag tips forward, and my instinct is 100% to lurch over and grab the bag before my precious fries hit the floor. I could easily see things going really wrong over something stupid in that moment.

[ColtCrazy]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Bengals have a chance I think - they can get to 12 wins pretty easily (but I think the Ravens and Steelers are still getting slightly more respect than they should due to past success). Next 3 Pats games will be good - @ATL, @CIN, NO. Even 1-2 in that stretch and we're set up pretty well. One thing worth noting on the Pats-Broncos game - we have a Monday night game the week before, so 1 less day to prepare.

I still think people are also overselling the Broncos - I'd bet money on them losing 1 of their next 3 NFL games (Philly, @Dallas, @Indy). Kind of unfair they get a Bye Week 6 and Week 9.Even if we're talking O-Line, I'd put Solder and probably Vollmer ahead of Mankins (and Vereen) at this point - Mankins hasn't been as good as his rep for a couple seasons. I also think that people are overstating Vereen's impact a little bit at this point - I think he's talented, as week 1 showed, and should have gotten more touches last year, but he had 457 yards total from scrimmage in his 1st 2 NFL seasons.

I agree. Funny, but this new Colts emphasis on the run sets up perfectly as a way to beat the Broncos. The Pats, when their backs are healthy, could do it too. Bengals could as well. Pounding teams should be successful against them.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by Radii

Eh, I can see it happening. I know I've had moments where I have a bag of fast food in the passenger seat and I have to brake a little harder than I expected and the bag tips forward, and my instinct is 100% to lurch over and grab the bag before my precious fries hit the floor. I could easily see things going really wrong over something stupid in that moment.

Oh, I can easily see it. I just hope it was at least something worth trying to save. If it was Little Caesars, he need to be slapped.

[cuervo72]

The median can expect a fine for hitting a defenseless receiver.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by ColtCrazy

I agree. Funny, but this new Colts emphasis on the run sets up perfectly as a way to beat the Broncos. The Pats, when their backs are healthy, could do it too. Bengals could as well. Pounding teams should be successful against them.

Ridley's been healthy, it's the loss of Gronk (who's a really good run blocker) and Hernandez that's killing our running game. Even though Hernandez wasn't a good blocker by TE standards, it was all about putting the 2 TE's out there and basing our offense on their personnel groupings. If the defense came out in a base 4-3/3-4, then we'd split Hernandez out wide against a linebacker or safety and throw quick option routes, or have Gronk going up the seam against single coverage from a safety. If they'd come out in a nickel vs. that we'd keep Hernandez inside and run it won their throats. The Denver game last year was a perfect example (although I think Hernandez was out and Fells was the 2nd TE) - I believe they stuck with the nickel against our 2-TE sets (and we also went up-tempo no-huddle so they couldn't sub out of it) and Ridley/Bolden ended up with 42 carries for 205 yards. So overall, even though we had great rushing stats for the year, and I think they're average/above-average, I don't think Ridley or the O-Line was nearly as elite as the numbers looked - what made it elite was the scheming.

Colts I want to get a couple more in-depth looks at. They looked great against the 49ers, but the only time their running game really looked good was once Patrick Willis went down. They do seem to be a team that emphasizes toughness (and having Luck as QB is great for that), so we'll see how that plays out.

Denver just isn't good on defense right now. Part of that is Bailey/Miller being out, but it won't turn around overnight when they come back. They gave up 262 yards in the first half (and were losing at halftime) to the Ravens and gave up 224 in the first half (and were only up 17-16 late in the 3rd) to a Giants team that got annihilated the next week in Carolina. I don't think Carter or Ihenacho are great, but if they're banged up too that's just means an even more questionable secondary against the Eagles/Cowboys. NFL rosters are just so thin you're so close to having to play obviously below-replacement level players who can/will get targeted by smart teams.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by ColtCrazy

I agree. Funny, but this new Colts emphasis on the run sets up perfectly as a way to beat the Broncos. The Pats, when their backs are healthy, could do it too. Bengals could as well. Pounding teams should be successful against them.

Really? Look, the Broncos are not going 16-0. I don't buy that for a second. But do you really think ground and pound beats the Broncos?

The Broncos were 3rd in the NFL against the run last year. They were second in yards per carry against. This year they are number 1.

Last year the Pats gouged them and the Texans ran pretty well on them. The Ravens ran it ok in the playoff game, but it took multiple questionable calls and a boneheaded play by the free safety to cost them that game.

No, ground and pound is not your best bet with this Broncos team. What is? Confuse Manning. The Broncos scored under 28 points in 4 games last year. They went 2-2 in those games. Manning had 7TD's, 5 INT's and 1 fumble lost in those four games. Almost 50% of the turnovers he committed last year took place in 4 games. He turned the ball over 3 times in the playoff game. 9 turnovers in 5 total losses last year. 7 turnovers in 13 wins.

Not difficult math here. You want to beat Denver, you confuse Manning and force turnovers. Manning doesn't turn the ball over? You lose. Period.

Again, this isn't the rambling of a Broncos fan who thinks they are going unbeaten and are a lock for the Super Bowl. Teams with a stud pass rusher on the left will cause Clark problems. Manning may not stay healthy. The WR core could get decimated by injury. It's a long F'n season.

But ground and pound? It had damned well better be backed up by forcing turnovers from Manning or that strategy will implode.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Ridley's been healthy, it's the loss of Gronk (who's a really good run blocker) and Hernandez that's killing our running game. Even though Hernandez wasn't a good blocker by TE standards, it was all about putting the 2 TE's out there and basing our offense on their personnel groupings. If the defense came out in a base 4-3/3-4, then we'd split Hernandez out wide against a linebacker or safety and throw quick option routes, or have Gronk going up the seam against single coverage from a safety. If they'd come out in a nickel vs. that we'd keep Hernandez inside and run it won their throats. The Denver game last year was a perfect example (although I think Hernandez was out and Fells was the 2nd TE) - I believe they stuck with the nickel against our 2-TE sets (and we also went up-tempo no-huddle so they couldn't sub out of it) and Ridley/Bolden ended up with 42 carries for 205 yards. So overall, even though we had great rushing stats for the year, and I think they're average/above-average, I don't think Ridley or the O-Line was nearly as elite as the numbers looked - what made it elite was the scheming.

Colts I want to get a couple more in-depth looks at. They looked great against the 49ers, but the only time their running game really looked good was once Patrick Willis went down. They do seem to be a team that emphasizes toughness (and having Luck as QB is great for that), so we'll see how that plays out.

Denver just isn't good on defense right now. Part of that is Bailey/Miller being out, but it won't turn around overnight when they come back. They gave up 262 yards in the first half (and were losing at halftime) to the Ravens and gave up 224 in the first half (and were only up 17-16 late in the 3rd) to a Giants team that got annihilated the next week in Carolina. I don't think Carter or Ihenacho are great, but if they're banged up too that's just means an even more questionable secondary against the Eagles/Cowboys. NFL rosters are just so thin you're so close to having to play obviously below-replacement level players who can/will get targeted by smart teams.

Another post I'm confused about. Part of the reason those teams stopped at halftime is because they couldn't sustain a running game and eventually the Broncos figured out the passing game. You simply are not going to sustain offense in this league averaging under 3 yards per carry on the ground. I fully expect McCoy to do a hell of a lot better than that this week, but as I said above, it doesn't matter what happens if the Eagles don't force Manning into mistakes. They can score 35, That still won't be enough if Manning doesn't turn the ball over.

[larrymcg421]

I think the Dolphins-Colts game from a few years back, where the Dolphins lost despite controlling the clock for 45 minutes, is a good example of how a pound it strategy is meaningless if you can't stop the Peyton.

Yeah it's great that you took 8 minutes off the clock and kicked a FG. Peyton just threw an 80 yard TD. You are now losing.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I think the Dolphins-Colts game from a few years back, where the Dolphins lost despite controlling the clock for 45 minutes, is a good example of how a pound it strategy is meaningless if you can't stop the Peyton.

Yeah it's great that you took 8 minutes off the clock and kicked a FG. Peyton just threw an 80 yard TD. You are now losing.

The only team who succeeded with a ground and pound strategy was the Patriots. They dominated the LOS and pounded the Denver defense.

A couple of things about the game though:


1) NE was the best offense in the NFL last year. It's not like most teams have the weapons to play like that.

2) Denver wasn't playing especially well during that stretch. They lost three of four games and weren't playing very well on either side of the ball. The Chargers crushed them in the first half the next week before the comeback.

3) This Denver team is far better than that one from last year. The offense is now beyond very good, it's great and potentially historic. Brandon Stokely and his three catches a game have been replaced by Wes Welker and his 6 catches a game. The plodding TE's who caught a ton of balls have been replaced by a guy who can split the seams.

4) Even with all the ball control, the Patriots won the game because of massive Denver turnovers. Thomas dropped the ball untouched running down the field for a TD, Manning dropped the ball on the 14 yard line setting up a short field and McGahee fumbled the ball at the Pats 15 with 5 minutes left and Denver driving for a score that would have cut the game to 3 points.

5) Which brings me back to the original point. You want to beat Denver, get the turnovers, especially from Manning. That's the way you beat this football team. And it will happen. Someone will force him into a ton of mistakes and the Broncos will lose. I'm very concerned about the post season. . . a speed rusher off the edge could decimate the offense.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Really? Look, the Broncos are not going 16-0. I don't buy that for a second. But do you really think ground and pound beats the Broncos?

The Broncos were 3rd in the NFL against the run last year. They were second in yards per carry against. This year they are number 1.

Last year the Pats gouged them and the Texans ran pretty well on them. The Ravens ran it ok in the playoff game, but it took multiple questionable calls and a boneheaded play by the free safety to cost them that game.

No, ground and pound is not your best bet with this Broncos team. What is? Confuse Manning. The Broncos scored under 28 points in 4 games last year. They went 2-2 in those games. Manning had 7TD's, 5 INT's and 1 fumble lost in those four games. Almost 50% of the turnovers he committed last year took place in 4 games. He turned the ball over 3 times in the playoff game. 9 turnovers in 5 total losses last year. 7 turnovers in 13 wins.

Not difficult math here. You want to beat Denver, you confuse Manning and force turnovers. Manning doesn't turn the ball over? You lose. Period.

But ground and pound? It had damned well better be backed up by forcing turnovers from Manning or that strategy will implode.

For all the numbers you threw out, how about this? When teams scored more than 23 points against Denver last season, they were 4-0, when they scored 23 or less, they were 0-13. The Broncos were 11-0 vs. non-playoff teams, and 2-4 vs. playoff teams. That's simple math.

I don't think there is some secret strategy here (and I definitely think attacking the pass defense is a better bet than the run defense), but in the one game I watched most closely the Patriots did beat them with a ground and pound strategy, and despite Belichick's rep vs. Manning, Manning didn't throw a single pick that day (he did fumble once). So yes, turnovers are important, but they're important for every team (and avoiding them is a huge part of what's made Manning and Brady so great.) NFL teams are 5478-1477-14 (.787) since 1978 and 2170-558-3 (.795) since 2000 when winning the turnover battle. The Patriots in particular are 119-10 under Belichick when winning the turnover battle. But this isn't some secret and you don't need to be +3 against Denver to win. You just need to be a good football team that makes some big plays on offense and a couple on defense. So far they've played 2 bad football teams, and 1 questionable one in Baltimore. I think Philly and Dallas both fall into the flawed category, but they both have explosive offenses - let's see what plays out here.

Originally Posted by TroyF

Another post I'm confused about. Part of the reason those teams stopped at halftime is because they couldn't sustain a running game and eventually the Broncos figured out the passing game. You simply are not going to sustain offense in this league averaging under 3 yards per carry on the ground.

Opponent total yards by half* - Baltimore 184/166 NYG 224/256 Oakland 144/165. Opponent Points scored by half - Baltimore 17/10 NYG 9/14 Oakland 7/14. Broncos yards by half* - vs. BAL 164/321 vs. NYG 224/189 vs. OAK 294/239 . Broncos points by half - vs. BAL 14/35 vs. NYG 10/31 vs. OAK 27/10

Those teams stopped running because at some point Denver (usually with the help of turnovers, a punt return TD, or the opponent being the Raiders) jumped out to a big lead, but they all still moved the ball just as effectively in the 2nd half. Denver didn't figure anything out against their passing games beyond "Our opponent is forced to throw to catch up" and luckily, those teams had bad WR's, a terrible O-Line, and a terrible QB respectively.

* - this was done with ESPN's Drive Charts, so it includes defensive penalty yardage. If anybody knows a site that breaks down team stats by quarter, let me know