College Football Week 12 discussion

[DaddyTorgo]

one thing i heard was that tom coughlin LOVES notre dame

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

oh yeah - and props to BC by the way...from wikipedia

In 2005, 2006 and 2007, the football team's Academic Progress Rate was the highest of any school that finished the season ranked in the AP or ESPN/USA Today Coaches' polls.

So suck on that!!!

Hopefully there's room in the trophy case for those titles.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Hopefully there's room in the trophy case for those titles.

lol nice - you ruined my deleting of the post jackass.

hey...gotta take pride in what we can. we may not admit the idiot athletes who can win national titles, but you can be damn sure your student-athlete is a student-athlete and not a semi-pro athlete.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

one thing i heard was that tom coughlin LOVES notre dame

I hope not, but there are some pretty good replacements out there if he did bolt.

[RainMaker]

Hypothetical Situation

All the top teams win out. In the SEC Championship, Florida beats Alabama in a nail-biting overtime game by a 2-point conversion. Texas struggles mightily with Nebraska but wins.

Does Alabama have a chance at going? They would have a superior schedule than Texas and many more quality wins. Their only loss would be to the #1 team in the country in a very close game.

[MJ4H]

No.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

No.

This.

[RendeR]

The only way Alabama goes is if they win out, assuming they play Florida in the conf Champ game that pretty well locks it. Any loss will drop them behind Texas and no matter how pathetic Texas' schedule was this season they would get the nod.

Personally I hope they destroy Florida. I'd take Texas/'Bama over Florida/anyone any day of the week.

[RainMaker]

But why wouldn't they? Their resume would appear to be much stronger even with a loss against Florida in a tight game.

[Captain2711]

Originally Posted by Logan

Who the fuck do you know that actually thought what Syracuse was running was the triple option? Not even close. I hope you read that text wrong. PM me with a name please.

Edelson column: A season’s work wasted | Scarlet Scuttlebutt

"Rutgers should have been ready for anything with so much on the line.

Defensively, they had no clue what to do when the Orange came out and started running the triple option, stealing off with 21 quick points before the Scarlet Knights got their bearings.

Again preparation – and they had nine days to get ready for this one – is of the utmost importance with so much to play for."



The writer seems to think they were running the triple option. My 10 years in pro and collegiate football leads me to believe it but I forget how smart this board is sometimes.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

But why wouldn't they? Their resume would appear to be much stronger even with a loss against Florida in a tight game.

The world you live in is not the one the people voting in these polls live in.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

But why wouldn't they? Their resume would appear to be much stronger even with a loss against Florida in a tight game.

#1 Pollers like Texas, not big fans of 'Bama with a loss.

#2 No one wants a rematch of FLorida - 'Bama in the BCS title game, 3/4 of the country wouldn't bother watching. No tv viewers, no revenue, no revenue == not gonna happen.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

But why wouldn't they? Their resume would appear to be much stronger even with a loss against Florida in a tight game.

Because Alabama will have gotten their shot - let Texas get theirs.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Because Alabama will have gotten their shot - let Texas get theirs.

I guess. But Texas would also have gotten in if they weren't raging pussies with their scheduling.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I guess. But Texas would also have gotten in if they weren't raging pussies with their scheduling.

You mean the team that had Arkansas and Utah back out of agreed upon games that were scheduled for this season?

[Blade6119]

And how is their resume much better then Texas'? I mean, top two aside, the SEC is looking just as average as other conferences this year...besides florida, who in the SEC is better then what Texas has faced? And dont say LSU, because I will laugh

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by cartman

You mean the team that had Arkansas and Utah back out of agreed upon games that were scheduled for this season?

Didn't TCU offer to play them Texas declined (which eventually turned into TCU going to Clemson)? They had an opening on their schedule for that.

I find it hard to believe that Texas was unable to secure a game against an opponent tougher than Wyoming, UCF, or whatever FCS school managed to fall on their schedule.

[dawgfan]

Texas didn't have a good OOC schedule. But they did to those teams what elite teams do to poor teams - blow them out. They've only had one close game all season, and they've put a hurting on some above average teams in Oklahoma State and Mizzou, and a 10 point win on an above average Texas Tech team.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

And how is their resume much better then Texas'? I mean, top two aside, the SEC is looking just as average as other conferences this year...besides florida, who in the SEC is better then what Texas has faced? And dont say LSU, because I will laugh

SEC is much better than Big 12. Alabama also beat Virginia Tech out of conference. It's a down year for them, but it's a really down year for the Big 12. The Big 12 is the worst BCS conference this year.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Texas didn't have a good OOC schedule. But they did to those teams what elite teams do to poor teams - blow them out. They've only had one close game all season, and they've put a hurting on some above average teams in Oklahoma State and Mizzou, and a 10 point win on an above average Texas Tech team.

And Alabama has slaughtered most of the teams they face, including much tougher teams than Texas has faced.

[tarcone]

Fun fact-- In the last 2 seasons Iowa has not lost a game by more then a TD.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Didn't TCU offer to play them Texas declined (which eventually turned into TCU going to Clemson)? They had an opening on their schedule for that.

I find it hard to believe that Texas was unable to secure a game against an opponent tougher than Wyoming, UCF, or whatever FCS school managed to fall on their schedule.

There was supposed to be a Texas trip to TCU in 2010, but it got scuttled for the same reason the Utah game did. When TCU moved to the Mountain West, it caused an extra conference game to be added to the MWC schedule.

I'm not really sure who you thought Texas could get instead of Wyoming, when Arkansas backed out 5 months before the start of the season, and most schedules are nailed down two years in advance. At least they didn't go the FCS route.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by cartman

There was supposed to be a Texas trip to TCU in 2010, but it got scuttled for the same reason the Utah game did. When TCU moved to the Mountain West, it caused an extra conference game to be added to the MWC schedule.

I'm not really sure who you thought Texas could get instead of Wyoming, when Arkansas backed out 5 months before the start of the season, and most schedules are nailed down two years in advance. At least they didn't go the FCS route.

Arkansas isn't that good anyway so I'm not sure what that would have really done to a really weak schedule.

Are you sure about the 2010 thing? TCU had two Big 12 teams on their schedule next year until Texas Tech pussed out to play Weber State instead. They had also been actively pursuing Notre Dame and Ohio State and I thought were close to deals with both at some point. Seems like if Texas wanted to get something done, they could.

And the rumor in Texas was that when Arkansas backed out, TCU offered to play them on the open date. Maybe knowing Hughes would be gunning for McCoy early in the year gave them second thoughts.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

And Alabama has slaughtered most of the teams they face, including much tougher teams than Texas has faced.

But in your scenario, Alabama would've lost in the SEC Title game to Florida. That's enough in my book to slide them below Texas in terms of teams deserving to go to the BCS Title game.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Arkansas isn't that good anyway so I'm not sure what that would have really done to a really weak schedule.

Sagarin, just to pick one example, ranks Arkansas #23 at the moment, higher than any team on Texas schedule to date.

edit to add: That #23 ranking is also the consensus of every major poll, with the exception to the above being that the consensus ranks Oklahoma State #16.
http://www.mratings.com/cf/compare.htm

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by molson

Kind of sad to see Northeastern end their football program after 70+ years.

I wonder if there will be more of this at the FCS level.

Depressing to see another CAA team go, but the writing's been on the wall since they first discussed it a couple years back (for obvious reasons, talk of dropping football tends to hurt recruiting). Playing in a sub-par HS stadium* 30 minutes from campus didn't help, and there have been rumors the reason Hager was hired and retained was to eliminate any remaining support for the team. Only affirms my belief that UMass needs to go FBS and hope the Big East split happens at the right time for us to go BCS (would help basketball and lacrosse too).

There definitely will be more of this at the FCS level if it stays as is. The NCAA should probably lower the scholarships there from 63? to like 42.5 or so. They're not competing with the FBS schools for recruits or championships, and its a massive money loser (at UMass 1.5-2m a year)

* - seriously, I've played @ Parsons Field and it's a joke. Less seating, parking and amenities than my HS (and 20-30 more in the area I've been to alone.) When Mark Whipple coached at UMass he called it "the Big House". When a reporter called him out and said the Big House was in Ann Arbor he replied this was the only field in the country you could see a big house through the holes in the chain link fence.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Wouldn't the GMAC Bowl be real bad for Notre Dame if they plan to fire Weis at the end of the season? The bowl game is January 6 and it doesn't give them the headstart a crappier game would give them. Unless they fire him before the bowl game.

As I've said at least 6 times now, the decision to fire/retain him (just kidding on the latter) will happen within a week of the Stanford game. The GMAC Bowl is probably better than a bowl in mid-December since it gives us enough time to get our 4th choice hired before the 15 extra allowed practice days start.

Originally Posted by Atocep

It very well could be nothing more than him telling ND that it's going to take a lot more than what they're offering.

You'll also see at least one coach who hasn't been mentioned by anyone float rumors/come out and say he's not a candidate to goad his school into a raise. Last time the most hilarious was Mark Mangino coming off a 4-7 season at Kansas.

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Unless I'm very much mistaken, didn't they try to get him five years ago only to see him go to Florida? I can't imagine that Notre Dame looks like a better job than Florida now if it didn't five years ago.

Yes, but they allegedly lowballed him and allegedly his wife didn't want to go Indiana over warmer weather. Although, again allegedly, Notre Dame is one of the three schools he can leave for his wife can't veto, so who knows. The Notre Dame vs. Florida angle would only look better in the "what have you done lately?" sense. He'll never do better at Florida, particularly with the new coaches in that league, and he'll have people trying to fire him next year if he goes 9-3, while at ND he could be the savior, as they'll probably be better next year.

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

one thing i heard was that tom coughlin LOVES notre dame

Oh god no.

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

hey...gotta take pride in what we can. we may not admit the idiot athletes who can win national titles, but you can be damn sure your student-athlete is a student-athlete and not a semi-pro athlete.

As opposed to being sure he's not a degenerate gambler. (As for idiot athletes that win National Titles - see if you can find Nathan Gerbe's SAT score.)

Originally Posted by cartman

You mean the team that had Arkansas and Utah back out of agreed upon games that were scheduled for this season?

Originally Posted by dawgfan

But in your scenario, Alabama would've lost in the SEC Title game to Florida. That's enough in my book to slide them below Texas in terms of teams deserving to go to the BCS Title game.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Sagarin, just to pick one example, ranks Arkansas #23 at the moment, higher than any team on Texas schedule to date.

edit to add: That #23 ranking is also the consensus of every major poll, with the exception to the above being that the consensus ranks Oklahoma State #16.
College Football Ranking Comparison

Just stop bothering. Rainmaker has his point (the system is flawed) and he'll twist facts/switch arguments at will to further it. Such as complaining that a team like Florida never leaves its state, then complaining when Texas plays @Wyoming (doing them a favor for the opening of their new stadium). Saying that Florida and USF would never have a reason to play each other until its pointed out they're meeting next fall. Saying teams like Texas will never schedule TCU or Utah, then switching to unfounded rumors when its pointed out Texas had games scheduled against both (including @TCU) until the Mountain West schools cancelled.

[the_meanstrosity]

Normally, I'd love to argue this, but this year I can't. The Big 12 is extremely weak this year. This year should have been a good year for the Big 12, but injuries and teams imploding just obliterated those expectations. Just an ugly season for the Big 12 in football.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

SEC is much better than Big 12. Alabama also beat Virginia Tech out of conference. It's a down year for them, but it's a really down year for the Big 12. The Big 12 is the worst BCS conference this year.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

.Yes, but they allegedly lowballed him and allegedly his wife didn't want to go Indiana over warmer weather. Although, again allegedly, Notre Dame is one of the three schools he can leave for his wife can't veto, so who knows. The Notre Dame vs. Florida angle would only look better in the "what have you done lately?" sense. He'll never do better at Florida, particularly with the new coaches in that league, and he'll have people trying to fire him next year if he goes 9-3, while at ND he could be the savior, as they'll probably be better next year.

I had a Notre Dame fan tell me at the Pitt game that I attended that Urban walked into the AD office and demanded that the academic standards be lowed. The AD said no and showed him the door.

So there's another rumor to add to your list.

[Matthean]

For the weekly RR update.

Rich Rodriguez's job at Michigan likely safe for now - ESPN

Gut feeling says he gets 5 years unless things continue to go nowhere as the football program gets a lot more press than their basketball team does.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I had a Notre Dame fan tell me at the Pitt game that I attended that Urban walked into the AD office and demanded that the academic standards be lowed. The AD said no and showed him the door.

So there's another rumor to add to your list.

I've heard the same one (I think it involved JuCo's too), and while there is almost certainly some truth to it (just as every coach will try to get as many borderline players in as possible - and yes from what I've heard Charlie got some leeway that Davie and Willingham probably didn't) I'm sure it wasn't quite that dramatic.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

The Notre Dame vs. Florida angle would only look better in the "what have you done lately?" sense. He'll never do better at Florida, particularly with the new coaches in that league, and he'll have people trying to fire him next year if he goes 9-3, while at ND he could be the savior, as they'll probably be better next year.

Oh, I dunno, 2 national championships in 3 years and the potential for a 3rd in 4 years will, I think, give Meyer substantial leyway if they go 9-3.

[Dr. Sak]

Phil Steele on why NO Iowa:

Since the BCS era began in 1998, only three teams nationally have ever made a BCS bowl after losing two or more games after October 31 (as the Hawkeyes have done). Those three teams were Oklahoma in 2002, Miami in 2003 and Florida State in 2005. Of those three teams, zero got at-large invitations. They all got automatic bids. So, if the Hawks get an at-large invite, they’d be the first school ever to do so after losing two games in November or later.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

As opposed to being sure he's not a degenerate gambler. (As for idiot athletes that win National Titles - see if you can find Nathan Gerbe's SAT score.)

your anti-bc position is well noted bishop. not sure what my institution ever did to you, but so be it. it's just kind of amusing that it seems to be your knee-jerk reaction to anything nice i have to say about BC. fact of the matter is that it happened...but it happened so many years ago, and BC was far from the only place where it happened - and there have been other places where worse things happened, so i'm not sure what the deal is. did you lose a ton of money because of it or something?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Just stop bothering. Rainmaker has his point (the system is flawed) and he'll twist facts/switch arguments at will to further it. Such as complaining that a team like Florida never leaves its state, then complaining when Texas plays @Wyoming (doing them a favor for the opening of their new stadium). Saying that Florida and USF would never have a reason to play each other until its pointed out they're meeting next fall. Saying teams like Texas will never schedule TCU or Utah, then switching to unfounded rumors when its pointed out Texas had games scheduled against both (including @TCU) until the Mountain West schools cancelled.

Owned!

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

your anti-bc position is well noted bishop. not sure what my institution ever did to you, but so be it. it's just kind of amusing that it seems to be your knee-jerk reaction to anything nice i have to say about BC. fact of the matter is that it happened...but it happened so many years ago, and BC was far from the only place where it happened - and there have been other places where worse things happened, so i'm not sure what the deal is. did you lose a ton of money because of it or something?

I just don't like the arrogance a lot of BC fans carry around, as well as the slanted media coverage in favor of the Boston schools. And at a certain level the focus on the private schools around Boston instead of the state university all of an hour and a half away does cost my university significant money from the legislature. (It's an embarrassment that Massachusetts is 48th in state funding for higher education.)

In real life I'm friends with a couple dozen BC alums, and I'm sure we'd get along if we ever do meet up. It's just the knee-jerk reaction to BC being brought and me being a UMass and Notre Dame football fan. I don't mean it any more personally than the Oklahoma/Texas, Georgia/Georgia Tech or USC/UCLA posters do when trading insults. (I'll leave Kansas/Missouri out of it, since there does appear to be a little personal animosity there at times.)

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Oh, I dunno, 2 national championships in 3 years and the potential for a 3rd in 4 years will, I think, give Meyer substantial leyway if they go 9-3.

You'd think so, and I didn't say it would be anything near a majority, but they would be out there. Les Miles at LSU won a title in 2007 and there have been murmurs about him and iirc even resident LSU fans calling for the OC to be fired. Bob Stoops at Oklahoma has people talking about him. Jim Tressel just finished clinching 5 straight BCS games and 7 in 8 seasons and there's a sizable contingent of Ohio State fans that don't like him or his style.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Depressing to see another CAA team go, but the writing's been on the wall since they first discussed it a couple years back (for obvious reasons, talk of dropping football tends to hurt recruiting). Playing in a sub-par HS stadium* 30 minutes from campus didn't help, and there have been rumors the reason Hager was hired and retained was to eliminate any remaining support for the team. Only affirms my belief that UMass needs to go FBS and hope the Big East split happens at the right time for us to go BCS (would help basketball and lacrosse too).

There definitely will be more of this at the FCS level if it stays as is. The NCAA should probably lower the scholarships there from 63? to like 42.5 or so. They're not competing with the FBS schools for recruits or championships, and its a massive money loser (at UMass 1.5-2m a year)

* - seriously, I've played @ Parsons Field and it's a joke. Less seating, parking and amenities than my HS (and 20-30 more in the area I've been to alone.) When Mark Whipple coached at UMass he called it "the Big House". When a reporter called him out and said the Big House was in Ann Arbor he replied this was the only field in the country you could see a big house through the holes in the chain link fence.As I've said at least 6 times now, the decision to fire/retain him (just kidding on the latter) will happen within a week of the Stanford game. The GMAC Bowl is probably better than a bowl in mid-December since it gives us enough time to get our 4th choice hired before the 15 extra allowed practice days start.You'll also see at least one coach who hasn't been mentioned by anyone float rumors/come out and say he's not a candidate to goad his school into a raise. Last time the most hilarious was Mark Mangino coming off a 4-7 season at Kansas.Yes, but they allegedly lowballed him and allegedly his wife didn't want to go Indiana over warmer weather. Although, again allegedly, Notre Dame is one of the three schools he can leave for his wife can't veto, so who knows. The Notre Dame vs. Florida angle would only look better in the "what have you done lately?" sense. He'll never do better at Florida, particularly with the new coaches in that league, and he'll have people trying to fire him next year if he goes 9-3, while at ND he could be the savior, as they'll probably be better next year.Oh god no.As opposed to being sure he's not a degenerate gambler. (As for idiot athletes that win National Titles - see if you can find Nathan Gerbe's SAT score.)Just stop bothering. Rainmaker has his point (the system is flawed) and he'll twist facts/switch arguments at will to further it. Such as complaining that a team like Florida never leaves its state, then complaining when Texas plays @Wyoming (doing them a favor for the opening of their new stadium). Saying that Florida and USF would never have a reason to play each other until its pointed out they're meeting next fall. Saying teams like Texas will never schedule TCU or Utah, then switching to unfounded rumors when its pointed out Texas had games scheduled against both (including @TCU) until the Mountain West schools cancelled.

Just a correction, Texas didn't head to Wyoming to open any new stadium. War Memorial is being renovated as we type, but it's not being replaced. (They're adding luxury boxes. Which is hilarious, really.) You're thinking of a few years ago when Texas went to UCF to help them open their new stadium and managed to lose.

The Wyoming game is a three-game series that Texas went to Wyoming this year and the Pokes will make two trips to Texas next year and again two years later I think.

[Young Drachma]

Dola:

And the Utah-Texas series was cancelled in 2004. When Urban Meyer was still there, because he thought it made the team's schedule too difficult. It would've resulted in a Texas-Utah game last year in Utah had the series been kept up.

Texas Tech cancelled a game against TCU for next season and instead chose to schedule Weber State. But I don't see any evidence that TCU cancelled a game with Texas anywhere.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

But I don't see any evidence that TCU cancelled a game with Texas anywhere.

It wasn't canceled, so much as the 2nd game after the 2007 one never got scheduled. I believe that the games were originally discussed in '98 or '99 when TCU was in the WAC, and they were able to keep them when TCU moved to Conference USA, but their move shortly thereafter to the MWC caused the second game to be dropped. Not 100% certain of that, though.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I just don't like the arrogance a lot of BC fans carry around, as well as the slanted media coverage in favor of the Boston schools. And at a certain level the focus on the private schools around Boston instead of the state university all of an hour and a half away does cost my university significant money from the legislature. (It's an embarrassment that Massachusetts is 48th in state funding for higher education.)

In real life I'm friends with a couple dozen BC alums, and I'm sure we'd get along if we ever do meet up. It's just the knee-jerk reaction to BC being brought and me being a UMass and Notre Dame football fan. I don't mean it any more personally than the Oklahoma/Texas, Georgia/Georgia Tech or USC/UCLA posters do when trading insults. (I'll leave Kansas/Missouri out of it, since there does appear to be a little personal animosity there at times.)You'd think so, and I didn't say it would be anything near a majority, but they would be out there. Les Miles at LSU won a title in 2007 and there have been murmurs about him and iirc even resident LSU fans calling for the OC to be fired. Bob Stoops at Oklahoma has people talking about him. Jim Tressel just finished clinching 5 straight BCS games and 7 in 8 seasons and there's a sizable contingent of Ohio State fans that don't like him or his style.

i'm sure we'd get along great if/when we ever meet up. no worries, i was just curious.

lol - and i hardly think i'm arrogant (although i suppose it could come off as that way here) about having gone to bc.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by molson

Kind of sad to see Northeastern end their football program after 70+ years.

I wonder if there will be more of this at the FCS level.

Yep. Hofstra is announcing that their football program will be eliminated. Very surprising considering not long ago they were discussing a potential jump up to D-I and have put a good number of guys in the NFL.