2009 College Football Week 3 Discussion

[Warhammer]

Given the state the program was in when he took over, I think he should have the time to fix it. He got the offense retooled, give him a year to get the defense right.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Given the state the program was in when he took over, I think he should have the time to fix it. He got the offense retooled, give him a year to get the defense right.

I'll see what I can do.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Matthean

They might be the one team to go undefeated before their bowl game that neither them, or that aspect gets talked about. They have some challenging games coming up, but they could do it. Let's say Texas, Florida, and Cincy are sitting there at the end and you know Cincy is going to get the shaft as long as Florida, or Texas don't have two loses.

I think most folks, even the biggest of Big East homers (like myself), could live with it if an undefeated BE team misses out on the title game to a pair of undefeateds from just about any other BCS conference. The beef and debate will be if a team with 1-loss from the Big 12 or SEC jumps back over them (which seems fairly likely considering where Cincy is in the polls and where some current 1-loss teams are).

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Given the state the program was in when he took over, I think he should have the time to fix it. He got the offense retooled, give him a year to get the defense right.

RR has been given less time to retool Michigan and they are already at where ND is at, good offense, bad defense. Michigan may have had more talent to work with, but they suffered an equally historically bad season last year. You don't fix a defense that bad in a year unless there are significant defensive coaching changes and some unearthed talent already on the team because even an awesome recruiting class next year will just give you a bunch of talented freshmen. It's why I still don't really look for Michigan to start to be a potential dominate team until after next year and that's if everything goes well.

[MrBug708]

Solid win for UCLA

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Too many turnovers today killed the Trojans. The interception was to be expected, but all of the fumbles were killers.

The turnovers were huge, no question. But let's also not forget that USC went 0-10 on 3rd down - give some credit to the UW defense.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I think most folks, even the biggest of Big East homers (like myself), could live with it if an undefeated BE team misses out on the title game to a pair of undefeateds from just about any other BCS conference. The beef and debate will be if a team with 1-loss from the Big 12 or SEC jumps back over them (which seems fairly likely considering where Cincy is in the polls and where some current 1-loss teams are).

Tough break for USF and the Big East looks like Grothe is going to be out for a while. True freshman at QB for FSU.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

Tough break for USF and the Big East looks like Grothe is going to be out for a while. True freshman at QB for FSU.

Might turn out to be good luck the way Florida State has made first time starters look recently.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

The turnovers were huge, no question. But let's also not forget that USC went 0-10 on 3rd down - give some credit to the UW defense.

I was pissed yesterday and am still very disappointed. I didn't mean to take away from UW's defense. They made those turnovers happen, however, those turnovers were absolutely critical to that win. Turnovers cost USC anywhere from 9 to 21 points considering the field position where they occurred and the McKnight fumble may have cost them another TD. That was a great strip on that play and the only one that was luck was the Havili fumble (which I don't think should have been a fumble since I thought the NCAA had a rule that the ground cannot cause a fumble.)

[dawgfan]

Yep, as I said, the turnovers were huge. But don't underestimate how significant it was that USC couldn't convert any of their 3rd downs. That's 10 times that USC couldn't keep a drive going and had to give up the ball.

I'll tell you what - if you'd told me before the game that the Huskies would score 16 points, I would've been certain that meant we'd lose, and probably lose big.

[dawgfan]

Quite surprised to see the Huskies crack the AP top-25 - I figured it would take 3-1 before that would happen...

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Quite surprised to see the Huskies crack the AP top-25 - I figured it would take 3-1 before that would happen...

24th, I love it!

[Chief Rum]

SC win aside, I actually think that game at the Farm's going to be tough for you guys.

UCLA makes the same trip week after you (at least we get a bye to prepare).

Stanford's no great shakes, but they're not a bad team at all, and they're playing at home. Harbaugh's doing a solid job up there.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

SC win aside, I actually think that game at the Farm's going to be tough for you guys.

UCLA makes the same trip week after you (at least we get a bye to prepare).

Stanford's no great shakes, but they're not a bad team at all, and they're playing at home. Harbaugh's doing a solid job up there.

Yeah, this game will be another big statement on how good the UW can be this year under Sark - first road game, first game where a "let-down" could be a possibility.

That said, the fact that Stanford's stadium rarely sells-out and their fans are not known for being loud should make it as soft a landing as possible for a Pac-10 road game.

Stanford has got a good thing going under Harbaugh and I expect it to be a tough game - obviously the Huskies have to keep Gerhart from running all over them.

Lots of UW fans getting giddy and talking bowls and even Pac-10 title. I'm not going to go that far yet, but it's clear after yesterday that this team is capable of winning enough games to go bowling if they keep up their focus and intensity. It also proves just how awful Ty was as a coach and how valuable Jake is to this team.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Matthean

RR has been given less time to retool Michigan and they are already at where ND is at, good offense, bad defense. Michigan may have had more talent to work with, but they suffered an equally historically bad season last year. You don't fix a defense that bad in a year unless there are significant defensive coaching changes and some unearthed talent already on the team because even an awesome recruiting class next year will just give you a bunch of talented freshmen. It's why I still don't really look for Michigan to start to be a potential dominate team until after next year and that's if everything goes well.

The only argument I would offer in response is that Michigan was not as far down as ND. Carr always had talent, he unable to win consistently with it. I really chalk last season for RR up to not having guys to run his system more than anything else.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

The only argument I would offer in response is that Michigan was not as far down as ND. Carr always had talent, he unable to win consistently with it. I really chalk last season for RR up to not having guys to run his system more than anything else.

He also took over the program at a bad spot. A lot of the best players on Carr's last two squads went to the pros. Lots of first day draft picks with UM by them in the 2007 and 2008 drafts, IIRC.

[MrBug708]

Washington to win a PAC-10 title?

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Washington to win a PAC-10 title?

Obviously still a huge longshot, but after yesterday I can't rule it out...

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Obviously still a huge longshot, but after yesterday I can't rule it out...

Im sure Stanford fans thought so 2 years ago too

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

The only argument I would offer in response is that Michigan was not as far down as ND. Carr always had talent, he unable to win consistently with it. I really chalk last season for RR up to not having guys to run his system more than anything else.

Lloyd did not recruit that well down the stretch. He was very lazy and just wanted kids who would for sure come here which left a lot of potential kids just needing to see Michigan and experience it on the outside looking in.

Here is a list of guys UM lost going into last years opener:

Chad Henne - 2nd round pick
Jake Long - #1 overall pick
Mike Hart - all time UM leading rusher, 5th round pick
Mario Manningham - 3rd round pick
Adrian Arrington - 6th round pick
Ryan Mallett - Transfer to Arkansas, starting QB now
Justin Boren - Transfer to OSU, starting OG now
The rest of our starting OL minus Schilling, a true frosh

There was more but it was significant. Lloyd just didn't have a lot of guys ready to fill in, and the ones who were replacements, like Minor and Brown at RB hardly played at all because he just ran Hart all day.

UM's playing a 3-4 now because it works best with the depth we have which is downright scary, but things are looking up.

They are probably an 8 win team now this year and legit Big 10 conference contender next year as Matt said.

I suspect Tennessee will take a bit longer in the SEC.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Painful, we got our asses kicked up front, which pretty much exposed our below average speed in the secondary.......This is like the A&M Bowl game when Detmer won the Heisman.

The other problem is we faced our first mobile QB today and as I feared that is still an issue for us. Fuck what a debacle!! Somebody please hide my Razor blades and take my shoelaces.

Trust me, I was happy I was flying home and not able to watch the game after catching an update on the phone....I was downright depressed when I got home and saw the final score.

Sunday morning sucked for this die hard fan.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Oh yeah, that toom considering two were in the FSU red zone and 1 went the other way for 6.....a stellar effort all around. First loss at home in 3 years as well.

Yeah..TCU game last season all over again...hopefully we get it out of our system like our early season loss against Washington in 96 and win out...

The U of U isn't looking to good right now, USU exploited and showed the Weaknesses out there....

TCU is now the scary team to play (of course U of U is to, because it's the Rivalry)

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Given the state the program was in when he took over, I think he should have the time to fix it. He got the offense retooled, give him a year to get the defense right.

Ehh... it's been 5 years. I wasn't expecting a top 10 defense, but some improvement from last year would have been expected considering they only lost 1 player, albeit a pretty good one (David Bruton).

Floyd out for the regular season. 13-358 and 3 TD's in essentially 2.25 games for him, plus one TD called back in the MSU game for no discernible reason (the play he broke the collarbone on iirc - refs ruled he didn't have continuous possession after he hit the ground).

[MJ4H]

I hadn't added my thoughts on the game Saturday night, yet, mostly because I have been pretty busy and still am. Guess I better now before it fades from memory too much.

First of all, the game was a ton of fun to watch. Ryan Mallett certainly appears to be the real deal, probably the best pro QB prospect out there right now, from his class, certainly. If not the best, definitely in the top 2 or 3. If he has time and keeps his focus, he is very, VERY good. Arkansas has a great stable of receivers, too, so combined with some really stellar play-calling by the Petrinos, this offense can be very near unstoppable in the right situations.

The problem apparently comes when those situations aren't right anymore. For instance, Saturday, when Georgia got ahead just enough that Arkansas had to abandon any pretense at a rushing game and they just pinned their ears back and blitzed and covered. Mallett didn't react very well to that pressure and the offense stalled more times than not.

The second quarter of the game was a disaster and completely changed the momentum. Frankly, Arkansas was dominating the game and the defense was actually playing reasonably up until that point. With that series of penalties, they fell completely apart and were lost most of the rest of the game. From there, Georgia just picked them apart, took what was given, and blitzed on D. The superior gameplan and talent took over and that was it.

As far as the Razorbacks are concerned, they are still a little undertalented (significantly on defense) and thin in a few places, and this will cost them this season, but they are a hugely improved team over last year. The record may not show it because the schedule is beyond brutal, but this is a very good team.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Ehh... it's been 5 years. I wasn't expecting a top 10 defense, but some improvement from last year would have been expected considering they only lost 1 player, albeit a pretty good one (David Bruton).

Floyd out for the regular season. 13-358 and 3 TD's in essentially 2.25 games for him, plus one TD called back in the MSU game for no discernible reason (the play he broke the collarbone on iirc - refs ruled he didn't have continuous possession after he hit the ground).

That's a huge loss for Notre Dame. Floyd is a great receiver. He was nearly unocverable in both the Michigan and Michigan State games. In both games, Notre Dame's offense was a lot less dangerous after he left with an injury. It's too bad.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Lloyd did not recruit that well down the stretch. He was very lazy and just wanted kids who would for sure come here which left a lot of potential kids just needing to see Michigan and experience it on the outside looking in.

Here is a list of guys UM lost going into last years opener:

Chad Henne - 2nd round pick
Jake Long - #1 overall pick
Mike Hart - all time UM leading rusher, 5th round pick
Mario Manningham - 3rd round pick
Adrian Arrington - 6th round pick
Ryan Mallett - Transfer to Arkansas, starting QB now
Justin Boren - Transfer to OSU, starting OG now
The rest of our starting OL minus Schilling, a true frosh

There was more but it was significant. Lloyd just didn't have a lot of guys ready to fill in, and the ones who were replacements, like Minor and Brown at RB hardly played at all because he just ran Hart all day.

UM's playing a 3-4 now because it works best with the depth we have which is downright scary, but things are looking up.

They are probably an 8 win team now this year and legit Big 10 conference contender next year as Matt said.

I suspect Tennessee will take a bit longer in the SEC.

Agree with everything here except the win total. I think because of the win over Notre Dame, this team has a lot of momentum. Here is the their schedule:

Western Michigan (W, 31-7)
Notre Dame (W, 38-34)
Eastern Michigan (W, 45-17)
Indiana
@Michigan State
@Iowa
Delaware State (REALLY???)
Penn State
@Illinois
Purdue
@Wisconsin
Ohio State

I can see Michigan losing to Penn State and Ohio State, the rest of these games are quite winnable. MSU will probably give them a hard time because of the rivalry factor, Iowa and Illinois are road games that should be winnable, Wisconsin could beat us, but this is a team that escaped against Fresno State at home. Not exactly awe inspiring. With all of that being said, I have not seen enough from Michigan yet to say they are back, but I definitely see improvement over last year (hard not to).

WTF is with scheduling Delaware State, anyway? I am a huge U of M fan, but c'mon....Delaware State? Lame.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Ryan Mallett certainly appears to be the real deal, probably the best pro QB prospect out there right now, from his class, certainly. If not the best, definitely in the top 2 or 3.

He's had a good start to the season with his performance against Georgia. It's awfully early to declare him the best in his class. I'm guessing you haven't taken a look at some of the other sophomore starters in Division I. It's a very strong class. There are 6 sophomore QB's in the top 14 QB's based on QB rating. The other 5 are:

Jacory Harris, MIAMI
Blaine Gabbert, MIZZOU
Russell Wilson, NCST
Kellen Moore, BSU
Kirk Cousins, MSU

[cartman]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

WTF is with scheduling Delaware State, anyway? I am a huge U of M fan, but c'mon....Delaware State? Lame.

The funny thing about that game is that Delaware State willingly forfeited a conference game to put the Michigan game on their schedule.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

The funny thing about that game is that Delaware State willingly forfeited a conference game to put the Michigan game on their schedule.

Must be getting one helluva payout.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Must be getting one helluva payout.

My thoughts exactly. I understand why Delaware State would do this ($$$$$$), but why would Michigan schedule such a weak-sister opponent? Didn't they learn their lesson against App State?

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

He's had a good start to the season with his performance against Georgia. It's awfully early to declare him the best in his class. I'm guessing you haven't taken a look at some of the other sophomore starters in Division I. It's a very strong class. There are 6 sophomore QB's in the top 14 QB's based on QB rating. The other 5 are:

Jacory Harris, MIAMI
Blaine Gabbert, MIZZOU
Russell Wilson, NCST
Kellen Moore, BSU
Kirk Cousins, MSU

The knock on Kellen Moore is his size (only around 6 feet tall), but he is an incredibly effective decision maker. Jacory Harris has been an absolute stud so far, but it is very early yet (just as with Mallett). I haven't seen these other guys play.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Im sure Stanford fans thought so 2 years ago too

Hey, if the rest of the Pac-10 continues to downplay the UW, that's fine by me.

There's not a team left on the Huskies schedule that they can't beat (though Cal would be as big a win as USC).

There's not a team left on the Huskies schedule that they can't lose to (though it would be major upset for WSU to do so).

This coming weekend will be a good test.

[MrBug708]

Did you see the "Bark heard round the world" t-shirts?

[DeToxRox]

Mallett is for sure the best pro NFL prospect because his size and arm strength plus QB pedigree. Dude is just a monster.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Mallett is for sure the best pro NFL prospect because his size and arm strength plus QB pedigree. Dude is just a monster.

Gabbert is roughly the same size (6'5", 235 lbs) and was ranked the #1 and #2 pro-style QB in that class depending on which scouting service you look at.

Mallett has had one good game this past week. Gabbert has had one good game against BCS competition (Illinois). I'm certainly not questioning that either of them have the potential, but it's REALLY premature to crown them after one good game against good competition.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Gabbert is roughly the same size (6'5", 235 lbs) and was ranked the #1 and #2 pro-style QB in that class depending on which scouting service you look at.

Mallett has had one good game this past week. Gabbert has had one good game against BCS competition (Illinois). I'm certainly not questioning that either of them have the potential, but it's REALLY premature to crown them after one good game against good competition.

Not to split hairs here, but I am not sure that Illinois is really BCS competition. I would think a good performance against Georgia is more impressive than one against the Illini.

[cschex]

Question to Arkansas fans: Has there been any talk of Mallet declaring? He's draft-eligible and he's a first round prospect on talent alone, not to mention the crazy numbers he's going to put up.

[MJ4H]

Yes, I have looked at the others. Mallett is head and shoulders above the others. I think you'll find most will agree.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by cschex

Question to Arkansas fans: Has there been any talk of Mallet declaring? He's draft-eligible and he's a first round prospect on talent alone, not to mention the crazy numbers he's going to put up.

Just the usual debbie-downers saying "enjoy him while he's here." Nothing serious.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Yes, I have looked at the others. Mallett is head and shoulders above the others. I think you'll find most will agree.

He would have been a beast for us at Michigan. Gratz to the Razorbacks, send the thank you basket to University of Michigan, C/O Rich Rodriguez (Lloyd Carr will return to sender).

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Gabbert is roughly the same size (6'5", 235 lbs) and was ranked the #1 and #2 pro-style QB in that class depending on which scouting service you look at.

Mallett has had one good game this past week. Gabbert has had one good game against BCS competition (Illinois). I'm certainly not questioning that either of them have the potential, but it's REALLY premature to crown them after one good game against good competition.

Mallett is 6'7, plays a pro style offense and has a coach who knows how to develop QB's. There is a huge difference.

It doesn't mean he will go #1 but if he produces stat wise ad doesn't falter he will be a top 5 pick. That's how the NFL works with QB's with that kind of ability/measurements.

[RomaGoth]

Count on the Lions to take him if he even smells like an NFL bust. That is what they do, after all.

[DeToxRox]

And I should add I am not saying Mallet will be an amazing pro but he is the best pro prospect in my opinion.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Did you see the "Bark heard round the world" t-shirts?

I haven't yet - that's a good one. I'd imagine you and CR and all your Bruin buddies are enjoying tweaking the Trojan fans you run across...

[MrBug708]

It's hard to spot them after their USC gear has been put away for the fall

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I haven't yet - that's a good one. I'd imagine you and CR and all your Bruin buddies are enjoying tweaking the Trojan fans you run across...

I actually don't go that way myself. Can't speak for Bug. I just let them suffer in silence. Mostly, the only verbal stuff I do with SC fans is during rivalry week.

Besides, it's not like UCLA is the pinnacle of football success at the moment.

[Wolfpack]

Russell Wilson is a solid, occasionally spectacular dual-threat quarterback, but the biggest thing is he just doesn't make huge mistakes. He's only thrown one interception. Ever. It went largely unnoticed this weekend, but he broke the 1-A consecutive-passes-without-an-interception record on Saturday.

However, he's considered much more of a baseball prospect than a football one as he's not very big and the general expectation is he'll be drafted by MLB after next year. Fortunately, his backup is Mike Glennon, who is a prototypical pro QB in size and skill potential. Problem is, when the starter isn't a turnover machine and generally leads his teams to victory, it's hard to get on the field.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

The problem apparently comes when those situations aren't right anymore. For instance, Saturday, when Georgia got ahead just enough that Arkansas had to abandon any pretense at a rushing game and they just pinned their ears back and blitzed and covered. Mallett didn't react very well to that pressure and the offense stalled more times than not.

Based off this and the couple games I saw him play for Michigan, is it fair to say Mallett is the second coming of Drew Bledsoe?

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

That's a huge loss for Notre Dame. Floyd is a great receiver. He was nearly unocverable in both the Michigan and Michigan State games. In both games, Notre Dame's offense was a lot less dangerous after he left with an injury. It's too bad.

Yeah, ND immediately drops from a borderline top 10 team to a borderline top 25 one. I guess the silver lining now is it will force others to step up and the offense can be dominant enough to win an NC next year when he comes back, but week 3 is a real blow. You could tell Clausen had no hesitation just throwing deep/jump balls to Floyd - and with good reason.

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

My thoughts exactly. I understand why Delaware State would do this ($$$$$$), but why would Michigan schedule such a weak-sister opponent? Didn't they learn their lesson against App State?

They learned their lesson - that's why they scheduled a weaker FCS team like DSU. (Just kidding - I know UMass is on the schedule in 2012? and we're one of the best 1-AA teams.)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Mallett is 6'7, plays a pro style offense and has a coach who knows how to develop QB's. There is a huge difference.

It doesn't mean he will go #1 but if he produces stat wise ad doesn't falter he will be a top 5 pick. That's how the NFL works with QB's with that kind of ability/measurements.

I certainly agree that the NFL puts an overemphasis on size, often to their detriment. With that said, I think that many are putting far too much emphasis on basically what amounts to one good game in his career. Before Saturday, he had a 43% career completion percentage against Division I competition.

As I said, it's early. Hopefully he does well for the Hogs.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Not to split hairs here, but I am not sure that Illinois is really BCS competition. I would think a good performance against Georgia is more impressive than one against the Illini.

The Big 10 is a BCS conference. I'm assuming that people in this thread are smart enough to figure out on their own that Illinois is not going to make a BCS game this year.