2008 NFL Offseason Thread

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

Hmmm, Lance Briggs stays with the Bears.

6 years $36 million. Pretty much the same deal thats been on the table for 2 years...

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Atocep

6 years $36 million. Pretty much the same deal thats been on the table for 2 years...

Really?

[rjolley]

Yes, good news. Now, address OL and RB.

[CU Tiger]

Who is going to catch any balls thrown by Bears QBs next year?
I mean I know they were rarely thrown well, but someeone at least needs to be on the field, right?

[TazFTW]

Bring back the wishbone!

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by stevew

Hopefully he doesn't pull a porter. That's not even that much money, I wish the steelers weren't so goddamn cheap sometimes. And would quit payign worthless guys too much money.

Huh? 5 years, 40 million, with 21 million guaranteed for a guard, especially one who is 31 years old is ridiculous money. Did I say he was a guard? That is serious overpayment. Reports are that the average annual value of $8 million and the $21 million guaranteed is the most ever paid to a free agent offensive lineman. Did I say he was a guard?

[JetsIn06]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Huh? 5 years, 40 million, with 21 million guaranteed for a guard, especially one who is 31 years old is ridiculous money. Did I say he was a guard? That is serious overpayment. Reports are that the average annual value of $8 million and the $21 million guaranteed is the most ever paid to a free agent offensive lineman. Did I say he was a guard?

You can't compare the money being thrown around in free agency this year. This year is like MP FOF. Not too many great players, but a shitload of cap room, so players get huge deals.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by JetsIn06

You can't compare the money being thrown around in free agency this year. This year is like MP FOF. Not too many great players, but a shitload of cap room, so players get huge deals.

It doesn't change the theme of my post which is that you can't characterize a contract like that (5 years/40 million) with a 31-year old guard as "not that much money." Lance Briggs just signed 6 years/36 million

[JetsIn06]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

It doesn't change the theme of my post which is that you can't characterize a contract like that (5 years/40 million) with a 31-year old guard as "not that much money." Lance Briggs just signed 6 years/36 million

Don't get me wrong, it's a lot of money for sure. It just sounded like you thought it was such a serious overpayment. The Jets did what they had to do to get him. There were two, maybe even three other teams that were willing to pay him only 1-mil less in guaranteed money.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Huh? 5 years, 40 million, with 21 million guaranteed for a guard, especially one who is 31 years old is ridiculous money. Did I say he was a guard? That is serious overpayment. Reports are that the average annual value of $8 million and the $21 million guaranteed is the most ever paid to a free agent offensive lineman. Did I say he was a guard?

Faneca has played like a hall of famer for most of his career. Hes been consistently the best interior lineman in the NFL. He may not be worth that kind of money, but if any interior lineman is....

[JetsIn06]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Faneca has played like a hall of famer for most of his career. Hes been consistently the best interior lineman in the NFL. He may not be worth that kind of money, but if any interior lineman is....

7-time pro bowler. Man, the Jets need him so badly. I'm very, very happy about this.

[Cringer]

I have to say I am kind of happy that the Packers traded DT Williams for the Browns' second round pick. I was a little (barely) surprised they franchise tagged him, so it makes complete sense now that they did that. I didn't want him walking away, but franchise tag money seemed like a bit of a stretch for the Packers at this point with a still fairly deep defensive line. Picking up a second round pick to have 3 of the first 60 picks is pretty nice and I expect to see Thomspon doing a few moves up or down in the draft once again.

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Who is going to catch any balls thrown by Bears QBs next year?
I mean I know they were rarely thrown well, but someeone at least needs to be on the field, right?

Olsen, Clark, and whatever WR they can get to sign after the draft. Not that the QB will get the ball to them consistently...

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Huh? 5 years, 40 million, with 21 million guaranteed for a guard, especially one who is 31 years old is ridiculous money. Did I say he was a guard? That is serious overpayment. Reports are that the average annual value of $8 million and the $21 million guaranteed is the most ever paid to a free agent offensive lineman. Did I say he was a guard?

I guess I was thinking relative of what they are currently paying 2 worthless fat POS linemen(Starks and Simmons).

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by stevew

I guess I was thinking relative of what they are currently paying 2 worthless fat POS linemen(Starks and Simmons).

You forgot Mahan.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by rjolley

Olsen, Clark, and whatever WR they can get to sign after the draft. Not that the QB will get the ball to them consistently...

Kind of funny when you list two tight ends as the top receivers.

I think the Bears will pick up a receiver in the first two rounds; as well as one later in the draft.

They need to start up front.

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Kind of funny when you list two tight ends as the top receivers.

I think the Bears will pick up a receiver in the first two rounds; as well as one later in the draft.

They need to start up front.

Yeah, they need to go back to a grind it out offense and a dominating defense. It's the Chicago way.

[Cringer]

Losing is the Chicago way, and I hope they stay the course.

[Chief Rum]

The Bears have done this trip before. Questionable QBing and no quality WRs? I thought that's what they called the late 90s and early 2000s in Chicago? And I don't remember too many of those teams doing too well.

I'm not a Bears fan so I don't have a horse in this race, but three of the worst bits of news I saw this week (from good/back impression) were Bears extend Grossman, Bears extend Orton, Bears let Berrian go to the Vikings.

Receivers from the draft aren't going to fix this problem. QB is a long standing and thorny issue that isn't easy to fill, so I'm not touching that one. But outside of being the Kansas City Chiefs or the Washington Redskins, finding a quality WR should not be that hard. The Bears need to get at least two veteran receivers to start, and then use a high pick on a WR in the draft to sit behind them and learn.

At least they resigned Briggs.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

The Bears have done this trip before. Questionable QBing and no quality WRs? I thought that's what they called the late 90s and early 2000s in Chicago? And I don't remember too many of those teams doing too well.

I'm not a Bears fan so I don't have a horse in this race, but three of the worst bits of news I saw this week (from good/back impression) were Bears extend Grossman, Bears extend Orton, Bears let Berrian go to the Vikings.

Receivers from the draft aren't going to fix this problem. QB is a long standing and thorny issue that isn't easy to fill, so I'm not touching that one. But outside of being the Kansas City Chiefs or the Washington Redskins, finding a quality WR should not be that hard. The Bears need to get at least two veteran receivers to start, and then use a high pick on a WR in the draft to sit behind them and learn.

At least they resigned Briggs.

As much as I hated the Bears extending the contracts of Grossman and Orton (only for a year), they really had no choice. Ryan and Brohm will likely be gone (and they are the best of a rather weak QB crop) by the time they pick. Not to mention waiting for a rookie to develop. And free agency offers very little.

They just don't seem strong any place on offense, expect at the tight end position. A quarterback or skill positions will not do much unless they get younger and better up front.

[rjolley]

True, the Bears haven't had great QB's. They've had good QB's from time to time, but no one great. Their winning teams have always been great defensively and at least good running the ball.

I don't think they need to steer away from that too far. Yes, they need a new QB. Grossman is not the answer and Orton is a fill gap measure at best. I always thought Orton would be the starter eventually. As for the WR, they tried to get a deal done with Berrian. He chose to not accept it. That is a major setback in the passing game for sure.

Since this isn't a one-season revamp type of fix, the focus should be on the OL and the running game. With a solid defense, that focus can get you a winning season. Look at San Diego this past season and the Bears the year before. I'm not talking about Superbowl winning, but a winning team.

[stevew]

Burner Turner to the falcons for 6/34. The falcons won't be taking McFadden.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

The Bears have done this trip before. Questionable QBing and no quality WRs? I thought that's what they called the late 90s and early 2000s in Chicago? And I don't remember too many of those teams doing too well.

I'm not a Bears fan so I don't have a horse in this race, but three of the worst bits of news I saw this week (from good/back impression) were Bears extend Grossman, Bears extend Orton, Bears let Berrian go to the Vikings.

Receivers from the draft aren't going to fix this problem. QB is a long standing and thorny issue that isn't easy to fill, so I'm not touching that one. But outside of being the Kansas City Chiefs or the Washington Redskins, finding a quality WR should not be that hard. The Bears need to get at least two veteran receivers to start, and then use a high pick on a WR in the draft to sit behind them and learn.

At least they resigned Briggs.

Angelo is to blame for putting them in the situation in the first place, but they've had little choice this offseason. Bringing Grossman back with a 1-year, heavily incentive laden deal is a no-brainer IMO. However, I still don't see what Angelo or Lovie sees in Orton, he's terrible and no business being a first or second team QB in the NFL. There will be a QB taken at some point in the first 3 rounds and chances are either Brohm, Flacco, or Henne will be there for their choosing. They've been talking about bringing Volek in if/when they dump Greise so they shouldn't be in the same situation they were last year where Grossman is the only legit option at QB.

Berrian has been an average 2nd receiver, at best, the last two years. The metrics used at football outsiders are not all that kind to him and if you watch him on a regular basis he has a horrible habit of quiting on routes when he's not the primary target I can think of at least 4 plays last year where that was the reason for an interception. So to pay him the $24.5 million over the first 3 years of a deal he was seeking would have been absolutely stupid.

What I don't get is why Angelo didn't make a run at Stallworth considering he's a better receiver than Berrian and ended up getting a very reasonable deal from Cleveland. Lovie has talked up Mark Bradley and the possibilty of using Hester as a starter next year, but there's no way either of those are ever more than a #3 or #4 receiver. I just can't see it.

[stevew]

I see the Bears making some stupid adjustment and signing Drew Carter for like 6 years and 32 million.

[JonInMiddleGA]

So with the acquisition of Turner, it appears that Warrick Dunn's time with Atlanta will soon be coming to an end.

Who might take a shot at finding a role for Dunn?

[Aylmar]

Originally Posted by stevew

I guess I was thinking relative of what they are currently paying 2 worthless fat POS linemen(Starks and Simmons).

To follow up on our previous conversation, I'm reading rumblings that the Steelers brass is strongly considering yanking the tag on Starks. So...looks like they're either close to a deal or they were just using it to gauge his value...

The Steelers have been burned a few times by massive third contracts (Jason Gildon, Dewayne Washington, Chad Scott), so I don't fault them for playing it safe on the far side of thirty with players. Speculation is that Simmons will move to the left side, where his mobility will be a lot more valuable than it was on the mostly straight blocking right side of the Steelers line (apologies if I said that before...I forget and am too lazy to go back and look at my post history).

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

So with the acquisition of Turner, it appears that Warrick Dunn's time with Atlanta will soon be coming to an end.

Who might take a shot at finding a role for Dunn?

He'll more then likely become a Lion. Detroit needs an RB to compliment Kevin Jones, and Dunn is that guy, plus he knows Rod Marinelli from Tampa Bay, and respects him. Seems to make too much sense.

[rjolley]

I was hoping the Bears would go after Turner, even with the strong RBs in the draft. And why they didn't go after Stallworth is anyone's guess. I'm not sure there's anyone really left in the FA pool for them to go after that's worth it.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

As much as I hated the Bears extending the contracts of Grossman and Orton (only for a year), they really had no choice. Ryan and Brohm will likely be gone (and they are the best of a rather weak QB crop) by the time they pick. Not to mention waiting for a rookie to develop. And free agency offers very little.

They just don't seem strong any place on offense, expect at the tight end position. A quarterback or skill positions will not do much unless they get younger and better up front.

Yeah, I agree that there was little choice there; just the impression from an outsider of seeing those guys get resigned. That said, I think even some of the questionable QB FA out there at least give the impression of being a better option than going with these guys again. As noted, drop Orton at least and go sign Culpepper or McCown or Volek. At least bring someone in that has the potential to improve the team on the short term or at least for a few games of the year.

Even if those options aren't better than Grossman/Orton, at least they're different. You already know Grossman/Orton doesn't work.

As for WR, I agree Berrian wasn't really all that great, but it's easier to keep guys than to sign guys from elsewhere (unless you have done something to totally burn the bridge with the guy). I agree with whoever said letting Stallworth sign without competing for him was a mistake. Heck, letting Bruce sign with the Niners on the cheap was a mistake.

If the troubles up front are that bad, that is the area to target with the draft. You sign veteran WRs and draft good, young OL. Like I said, WRs can always be found. OL with the kind of athelticism and skill needed usually need to be taken in the draft. So depending on the draft for WR or QB takes away one more pick you could use on a quality young OL.

And since we hit all other points of the Bears offense, they also still have Benson at RB. Honestly, one year later and I still have no clue what they were thinking with the Jones deal. Benson proved even before they dealt Jones that he didn't have the right approach/attitude to be the dominant back they needed. And then they dealt him to switch up second round spots? Wow...

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

So with the acquisition of Turner, it appears that Warrick Dunn's time with Atlanta will soon be coming to an end.

Who might take a shot at finding a role for Dunn?

Wouldn't Dunn still be a decent change of pacer back? Norwood is just like Turner, IIRC, and would probably have to be the primary backup. I don't recall that either Norwood or Turner are as good catching the ball out of the backfield as Dunn is.

Of course, if I were the Falcons, I would do Dunn a favor and move him to a contender and have that cap space for help elsewhere. You can always draft a scatback in the draft to be that change of pace guy (and usually you can get him in the 3rd or 4th round).

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by stevew

I see the Bears making some stupid adjustment and signing Drew Carter for like 6 years and 32 million.

Not seeing a link to this any place.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Yeah, I agree that there was little choice there; just the impression from an outsider of seeing those guys get resigned. That said, I think even some of the questionable QB FA out there at least give the impression of being a better option than going with these guys again. As noted, drop Orton at least and go sign Culpepper or McCown or Volek. At least bring someone in that has the potential to improve the team on the short term or at least for a few games of the year.

Even if those options aren't better than Grossman/Orton, at least they're different. You already know Grossman/Orton doesn't work.

As for WR, I agree Berrian wasn't really all that great, but it's easier to keep guys than to sign guys from elsewhere (unless you have done something to totally burn the bridge with the guy). I agree with whoever said letting Stallworth sign without competing for him was a mistake. Heck, letting Bruce sign with the Niners on the cheap was a mistake.

If the troubles up front are that bad, that is the area to target with the draft. You sign veteran WRs and draft good, young OL. Like I said, WRs can always be found. OL with the kind of athelticism and skill needed usually need to be taken in the draft. So depending on the draft for WR or QB takes away one more pick you could use on a quality young OL.

And since we hit all other points of the Bears offense, they also still have Benson at RB. Honestly, one year later and I still have no clue what they were thinking with the Jones deal. Benson proved even before they dealt Jones that he didn't have the right approach/attitude to be the dominant back they needed. And then they dealt him to switch up second round spots? Wow...

If anything, they could of at least tagged Berrian for this year. However, I don't think he is worth the money the Vikings gave him. I don't see him as a No. 1 receiver in the league. I think you could do better at the position then Berrian. Stallsworth would of been a terrific pickup. As dangerous as Hester is on special teams, I think they are hoping too much from him in being a receiver with his limited experience.

What is the Bears cap situation? Some of the moves (trading Jones when Benson has yet to prove himself) they make are strange.

[Coffee Warlord]

Bears have a TON of cap room (~30 mill prior to the Briggs resigning). Though I'm not as upset about losing Berrian as most people.

The Benson/Jones things is classic Angelo. Dude just cannot evaluate offensive talent.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

The Benson/Jones things is classic Angelo. Dude just cannot evaluate offensive talent.

Jones wasn't any better than Benson last year when he was on the field, plus he'll be 30 this year and was just extended. Trading him was the right call, what they did with the pick was classic Angelo.

[Chief Rum]

Yeah, the Berrian thing again. It's not really about Berrian, who, has mentioned, is merely a decent starter. It's about the Bears' offense and the direwction they are going in with "building" it for next year. I haven't seen a forward step yet by them on that side of the ball this offseason.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Jones wasn't any better than Benson last year when he was on the field, plus he'll be 30 this year and was just extended. Trading him was the right call, what they did with the pick was classic Angelo.

Trading him was the right call if:

A) Benson hadn't pissed off the coaches and teammates with his attitude and not nutting up to play with iffy injuries;
B) Benson had proven he could do better than Jones and with the same consistency
C) Angelo could trade a #1 back for more than, what, 10 spots in the 2nd round?

Sorry, not saying Jones was the long term answer, but Benson is not the answer, period. Everyone but Angelo and Lovie Smith knew that last offseason, and Benson did nothing to disprove it with his "chance" this pasty year. And getting nothing for Jones (yes, nothing) was weak. One of the worst offseason moves last year.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Trading him was the right call if:

A) Benson hadn't pissed off the coaches and teammates with his attitude and not nutting up to play with iffy injuries;
B) Benson had proven he could do better than Jones and with the same consistency
C) Angelo could trade a #1 back for more than, what, 10 spots in the 2nd round?

Sorry, not saying Jones was the long term answer, but Benson is not the answer, period. Everyone but Angelo and Lovie Smith knew that last offseason, and Benson did nothing to disprove it with his "chance" this pasty year. And getting nothing for Jones (yes, nothing) was weak. One of the worst offseason moves last year.

The Bears got the same value for Jones (using the draft pick value chart) as the Bills did for McGahee, who is considerably younger.

Where the Angelo screwed up is using that pick to trade down in order to select a DE that they put on injured reserve to give him a year to develop.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The Bears got the same value for Jones (using the draft pick value chart) as the Bills did for McGahee, who is considerably younger.

Where the Angelo screwed up is using that pick to trade down in order to select a DE that they put on injured reserve to give him a year to develop.

Huh? Better check that. My quick search has McGahee going to the Ravens for three picks, the Ravens' third and seven last year and their third this year. That's three picks, straight, for McGahee.

The Jets dropped just 26 spots in the draft to get Jones, exchanging picks.

[Chief Rum]

Hmm, checked against the draft pick value chart, I see where you're going. I don't agree that it's as clear cut as that, though. The Jets may not get as good a player dropping like that, but they still have a pretty high draft pick where I doubt the player drafted at that point against what they would have gotten with the higher pick was that much of a difference. AND they added a #1 RB (at that time) for that.

The Bills added three whole players for McGahee, and while the seventh rounder is of questionable value, the third rounders are valuable. In my mind, there is no doubt that adding two young players via third round picks is far better than moving up 26 spots in the second round well before the draft.

[Atocep]

Bears - 275 draft points gained.

Bills - around 363

The big difference in the trade is how bad Baltimore turned out to be this year. If Baltimore is even a wild card team this year then the trade is even as far as points go.

The Bears got good value out of Jones, they just wasted the value with how they used the pick. When you consider just how bad Thomas Jones was this past year, the bears got excellent value out of what they got from the Jets.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Not seeing a link to this any place.

I was being hypothetical. Sorry if i was confusing.

[Logan]

Just read (EDIT: apparently incorrectly) that Moss re-signed with the Pats. 5 years, $52 million, with $25 mil guaranteed.

[Dunleavy]

Angelo is one of these guys that thinks he's a lot smarter then he actually is, but i still agree with him on most things

the thing with Berrian is he not worth the kind of money Minny gave him. i'm not sure why Angelo didnt "tag and release" Berrian for one more year. they need to bring in one savvy vet at WR to lead the group (in an off-field sense)

Briggs was different then Berrian b/c he is a legit ProBowler and worth the money. surprised there wasnt a better market for Briggs, only Washington was in on him

we all knew the bears werent going to make an early FA signing, Angelo doesnt like to overpay but hopefully some attention will be paid to the OL (2), WR, NT, S

QB and RB are a mess. i could see Angelo taking a QB in the 6th round but i dont see him going QB in 2nd (although Flecko is an interesting prospect to me). RB i would like to see APeterson cut but that wont happen (Lovie Loves him), so with 3 RB's on the roster i'm alittle concerned Angelo will stand pat when another back is needed

[Galaxy]

Any place to where the Draft value chart is listed?

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Dunleavy

Angelo is one of these guys that thinks he's a lot smarter then he actually is, but i still agree with him on most things

the thing with Berrian is he not worth the kind of money Minny gave him. i'm not sure why Angelo didnt "tag and release" Berrian for one more year. they need to bring in one savvy vet at WR to lead the group (in an off-field sense)

Briggs was different then Berrian b/c he is a legit ProBowler and worth the money. surprised there wasnt a better market for Briggs, only Washington was in on him

we all knew the bears werent going to make an early FA signing, Angelo doesnt like to overpay but hopefully some attention will be paid to the OL (2), WR, NT, S

QB and RB are a mess. i could see Angelo taking a QB in the 6th round but i dont see him going QB in 2nd (although Flecko is an interesting prospect to me). RB i would like to see APeterson cut but that wont happen (Lovie Loves him), so with 3 RB's on the roster i'm alittle concerned Angelo will stand pat when another back is needed

Last year's third round pick Wolfe seems like he won't amount to anything. Of course, has Chicago had a great back since Payton and Anderson (early 90's)? They just can't seem to draft them.

[korme]

Bad weekend to be a Bengals fan, the Browns are owning us

[Galaxy]

We need an "off-season In Pictures" Flere story.

[Sublime 2]

Originally Posted by Logan

Just read that Moss re-signed with the Pats. 5 years, $52 million, with $25 mil guaranteed.

Excellent...any link?

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Any place to where the Draft value chart is listed?

It's all over the net via the power of google.

[DaddyTorgo]

good to hear about Moss.

I have mucho concern about the Pats secondary ATM though. I think it's clear that will be addressed in the draft, but we need a good 2-3 players back there...