2005-2006 baseball offseason

[Ksyrup]

The Baltimore Orioles are the Royals with a much better budget. "Leveling out the playing field" for the Orioles has very little to do with money and almost everything to do with ownership/management. The Royals' issues are exacerbated because of their money issues. But even playing among the small fish, they still are one of the least desirable choices.

[Cards4ever]

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

Yeah, personally I'm a big Wood fan. And I hope he doesn't get traded. I'm eternally optimistic (a condition of being a Cubs fan) and have really high hopes for him. I think that if he can keep his injuries under control, he can be absolutely dominant (as in 2003, especially postseason).

But even more than that, I just know that if the Cubs trade him, he'll be a Cy Young guy... Being bitten repeatedly is another condition of being a Cubs fan.

It all depends on what you get for him, but, if I was a Cubs fan, I would consider it.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Jays get Burnett for $55m/5 years. I have to say that as a Jays fan, if nothing else, it's nice to be relevant again. I don't know that the signings of him and Ryan, who other teams would've snapped up, will be complete disasters...because playing up there in relative obscurity seems to be great for players looking to resurrect their careers or for prospects looking to blossom usually.

But..I just hope the deals don't bite us in the ass later, as I'm not sure I'm completely sold that we'll contend next year. I still think the club is a year away.

Once again the f'n Cardinals bank on "today's" player to play here in St. Louis for less money and length of contract. Wow, they are really losing out on FA this year.

[Cuckoo]

Originally Posted by Cards4ever

It all depends on what you get for him, but, if I was a Cubs fan, I would consider it.

Agreed. Personally, though, my price (if I was GM) would be higher than most would pay for him given his injury problems and contract. But then again, that's probably why I'm not GM (among a half a million other reasons).

[Cards4ever]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Once again the f'n Cardinals bank on "today's" player to play here in St. Louis for less money and length of contract. Wow, they are really losing out on FA this year.

If Morris comes back at a decent price and they get Jaque Jones for the OF, and can figure out 2B and the other OF position, they should be ok.

[Cards4ever]

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

Agreed. Personally, though, my price (if I was GM) would be higher than most would pay for him given his injury problems and contract. But then again, that's probably why I'm not GM (among a half a million other reasons).

Fan loyalty will get you nowhere Cuckoo!

[Vince]

Originally Posted by Cards4ever

If Morris comes back at a decent price and they get Jaque Jones for the OF, and can figure out 2B and the other OF position, they should be ok.

Everything I've heard has Morris going to the Giants (though he's starting to look a little too expensive). If he doesn't, we're up shit creek without a paddle, it seems like -- no other SPs out there, really.

[Ksyrup]

I would think that Burnett's signing has Morris in a bit more command of where he's going. If he still signs quickly with the Giants, than its more than likely that the Cards didn't really want him back, or they pissed him off to the point where he didn't even want to consider a competitive offer from them.

[Vince]

I just don't understand how people are saying that he's worth much more than Loaiza. I understand, pitchers market this year, etc, etc...but still.

[Cards4ever]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I would think that Burnett's signing has Morris in a bit more command of where he's going. If he still signs quickly with the Giants, than its more than likely that the Cards didn't really want him back, or they pissed him off to the point where he didn't even want to consider a competitive offer from them.

I'm guessing we should find out in the next couple of days.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Vince

Everything I've heard has Morris going to the Giants (though he's starting to look a little too expensive). If he doesn't, we're up shit creek without a paddle, it seems like -- no other SPs out there, really.

As the days pass, I get a better feeling that Kris Benson is going to bring even more back in a trade.

[Bad-example]

Giants trade LaTroy Hawkins to the Orioles for lefty reliever Steve Kline.

Now the Tim Worrell signing makes more sense. I can live with Tyler Walker, Worrell and Kline setting up Benitez.

[oykib]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

As I've been saying in the other thread, if you level out the playing field, it doesn't end up that KC's only options to attract talent is to vastly overpay them, putting them in an even deeper hole in an attempt to get better. They already went after Furcal, Giles, and Loaiza and got rebuffed. They've spent the last season and a half evaluating practically everyone who was major league ready and some who weren't in an attempt to find where they had good young players. You can't build your entire team from the farm- there are going to be players who crash and burn and you'll have to fill those holes. They determined they have some good young arms but Baird wants a veteran to help mentor them- it's not a bad idea.

But it's a downward spiral- team sucks so you have to overpay so team sucks, etc. If there's a more level playing field, this isn't as magnified. Even the Bengals have proven that you can't suck forever. Your mistakes that you made 5 years ago don't just keep haunting you forever.

SI

So... tell me. Would Byrd have signed with A's if they'd offered that contract? 'Cause last time I checked they were in just as shitty a market as KC.

I think he might have signed with them. Because Loaiza signed with the A'a for about the same contract that Byrd turned down from KC.

The lousy market does put KC at a disadvantage. But that doesn't absolve them of doing a shitty job. Hell... the twins and Expos were going to be contracted not too long ago and they've both been contenders in recent years.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Cards4ever

If Morris comes back at a decent price and they get Jaque Jones for the OF, and can figure out 2B and the other OF position, they should be ok.

Morris will not be back as Reyes will now step in. I hope they don't get Jaque Jones and his 0.220 average, maybe John Rodriguiez will get a chance. They should haved signed Gruzzy. I don't know, but it seems as if the upper management think they can woo a player on fans and a new stadium. Players want security via long term contract. We just don't get it.

[Bearcat729]

700 WLW was saying that this is a done deal.


First dibs
Dec 6 - According to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, the Pirates are close to a trade to acquire Reds first baseman Sean Casey for starting pitcher Dave Williams.

Casey, who will make $8.5 million in 2006, hit .312 last season -- the fifth time he has cracked the .300 mark -- with nine home runs and 58 RBI. Williams went 10-11 with a 4.41 ERA in a career-high 138.2 innings.

[Vince]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

Giants trade LaTroy Hawkins to the Orioles for lefty reliever Steve Kline.

Now the Tim Worrell signing makes more sense. I can live with Tyler Walker, Worrell and Kline setting up Benitez.

Gah. Hawkins is way too expensive, but he's still worth more than Steve Kline (in my opinion). The whole Hawkins fiasco from last year sucked, but now it's at least over. Ugh.

[Bad-example]

I didn't like Hawkins much, and hopefully Kline can help. I think the deal adds balance to the pen, and if Kline's addition helps sway Matt Morris to sign with SF, so much the better.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Bearcat729

700 WLW was saying that this is a done deal.


First dibs
Dec 6 - According to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, the Pirates are close to a trade to acquire Reds first baseman Sean Casey for starting pitcher Dave Williams.

Casey, who will make $8.5 million in 2006, hit .312 last season -- the fifth time he has cracked the .300 mark -- with nine home runs and 58 RBI. Williams went 10-11 with a 4.41 ERA in a career-high 138.2 innings.

Seems like a good trade for the Bucs?

[dervack]

Who do you guys seeing as a better investment. Burnett or Millwood? If Burnett, wouldn't it make more sense for him to wait until Millwood gets signed? Rumor has it the Sea is offering 4 years 44 million. If I was going to throw 11 million at one of them, it would be A.J. So why wouldn't he wait until the market is set for him?

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Seems like a good trade for the Bucs?

8.5 million is probably like a 3rd to a 4th of their payroll. Move seems to be one of those so that they can say "We made some moves this offseason to better the team, bringing in an established major league 1b(All star maybe?) who grew up in Pittsburgh."

He's a FA at the end of the year, Im guessing he will be traded again at some point this season, unless he wants to re-up for cheap.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by dervack

Who do you guys seeing as a better investment. Burnett or Millwood? If Burnett, wouldn't it make more sense for him to wait until Millwood gets signed? Rumor has it the Sea is offering 4 years 44 million. If I was going to throw 11 million at one of them, it would be A.J. So why wouldn't he wait until the market is set for him?

Maybe cause he and his agent were afraid that suddenly people would realize that they are throwing 11 million at Darren Dreifort 2K5?

[sterlingice]

Lots of rumors swirling around the Royals with a Kris Benson trade. Gammons is reporting MacDougal + Affeldt for Benson while other sources are reporing Affeldt + a prospect for Benson. The first is tough to swallow, even with Jeremy's and Mike's inconsistencies for a guy who is pretty spineless and an innings sponge.

As for Anna Benson, if you really are coming to KC, enjoy bitchy diva hell here in the midwest where we are mostly nice folks who don't really care what spoiled princesses think


SI

[Buccaneer]

Well, it looks like tomorrow we'll hear Hoffy's decision: Pads or Indians. Latest uncomformed figures show Pads at 2/15+8 for 3rd vs Indians at 3/21 (17.5 guaranteed). It's a no-brainer - living and working in San Diego >>> Cleveland.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by stevew

Maybe cause he and his agent were afraid that suddenly people would realize that they are throwing 11 million at Darren Dreifort 2K5?

That sounds clever and all, but Darren Dreifort never had seasons as good as A.J. Burnett's 2002 and 2005 years - not even close.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

That sounds clever and all, but Darren Dreifort never had seasons as good as A.J. Burnett's 2002 and 2005 years - not even close.

Chan Ho Park maybe?

[Karlifornia]

John Olerud retired.....

As for Hawkins, I was impressed with the way he pitched, but the Giants needed a lefty reliever, so that's what they got. I have faith in Brian Sabean.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by stevew

Chan Ho Park maybe?

Park was with the Dodgers, I'd be concerned about judging any of those numbers without park adjustment.

[TazFTW]

Edgar Renteria - SS - Red Sox

Talks are "percolating" tonight on the proposed three-team deal sending Edgar Renteria to Atlanta, Andy Marte to Tampa Bay and Julio Lugo to Boston, according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Confirming the Globe's report. The Braves also discussed a three-team deal with Colorado and Tampa Bay that would have put Lugo in Atlanta and Johnny Estrada in Colorado, but those negotiations cooled some as the other trade talks began heating up. Dec. 6 - 11:00 pm et Source: Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Edgar Renteria - SS - Red Sox

The Red Sox, Braves and Rays are reportedly discussing a three-team deal that would send Edgar Renteria to Atlanta, Andy Marte to Tampa Bay and Julio Lugo to Boston. If that's something the Braves are really willing to do -- we're quite skeptical -- the Red Sox should seriously consider eliminating the middle man and taking Marte. Actually, the Globe's Gordon Edes said the Red Sox could play Lugo at second and attempt to acquire Orlando Cabrera from the Angels, which sounds like a terrible idea to us. Dec. 6 - 10:12 pm et Source: Boston Globe

Hmmm.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I don't know anything about Marte, but I do know that going into last year, there were a number of Sox fans who would have liked to see them get Lugo.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Park was with the Dodgers, I'd be concerned about judging any of those numbers without park adjustment.

Burnett didn't exactly pitch in Colorado, you know.

Interesting on that Braves 3-way. I went to sleep early last night and the rumor pop up overnight. Man there's nothing better than baseball's offseason.

[Ksyrup]

Apparently the Braves are looking to sell high on Langerhans and his great BB/K ratio...and of course, the Royals would be the sucke..erm, takers.



Although the Royals are believed to be the leading contender for Kris Benson, GM Allard Baird said late Tuesday night that the teams weren’t close to a deal.
Baird added that he wasn't planning to give up Jeremy Affeldt and Mike MacDougal in the same trade. One of the two, along with a prospect, could be sufficient for the Mets. There's also been speculation that the Royals will trade one of the relievers and Angel Berroa to the Braves for either Kelly Johnson or Ryan Langerhans, along with a prospect. That makes more sense to us than a Benson deal. Dec. 7 - 4:33 am et

[Ksyrup]

Yikes! 20 starts?



The Red Sox probably won't attempt to sign Josh Beckett to a long-term deal before the start of next season.
"We kind of want to date for a while," said assistant GM Jed Hoyer. "We just acquired him. Let's get to know each other over the next couple months. If we decide we want to do a long-term deal, we'll do that." ESPN's Peter Gammons is going around saying that Beckett's MRI was so bad that the Red Sox aren't sure they'll get 20 starts from him next season. While we find that hard to believe -- he's an injury risk, but the Red Sox had access to the MRI before completing the deal -- waiting is clearly the smart play for Boston here. With two years remaining before free agency, it's not like he'd come cheap if he signed now. Dec. 7 - 4:24 am et

[Ksyrup]

What the hell? I guess the Phillies' are determined to trade Abreu. I don't get it. I know he's expensive, but he's also an OBP machine.



The Phillies have discussed a deal that would send Bobby Abreu to the Dodgers for Derek Lowe or Brad Penny.
The two teams have already met twice and are scheduled for more talks today. Considering that neither Lowe nor Penny comes cheap, the Phillies could try to force David Bell into the deal, freeing up some additional cash. Also, the Dodgers could consider throwing back Jose Cruz Jr. if the Phillies were interested. Dec. 7 - 4:19 am et

[Ksyrup]

The Marlins have tentatively agreed on a deal to send Juan Pierre to the Cubs for pitchers Sergio Mitre, Ricky Nolasco and Renyel Pinto, according to ESPN.com's Jayson Stark.
Not a bad deal for the Cubs. Mitre wasn't in the team's plans for 2006, and Pinto's stock has fallen quite a bit. Nolasco is the pitcher here they're most likely to regret parting with, though he's probably not ready yet. Mitre should move right into Florida's rotation. Pierre will likely start in center field and bat leadoff for the Cubs. The team still could go after Milton Bradley to play right field. Dec. 7 - 3:31 am et

[Ksyrup]

Cardinals GM Walt Jocketty admitted his team is out of the running for Matt Morris. The St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports that the right-hander will likely join with the Giants.
The Giants' proposal, reportedly for two years, is for more than $8 million a season, said a source familiar with talks. Morris must want the short-term deal in an effort to rebuild his value and go after A.J. Burnett money in the winter of 2007. Dec. 7 - 1:44 am et

[Ksyrup]

The Astros are leaning toward not offering Roger Clemens arbitration before Wednesday's deadline, something that would make him ineligible to pitch for the team before May 1.
It wouldn't necessarily end his tenure in Houston. In fact, having Clemens debut in May might be best for both sides. If the Astros are willing to immediately begin spending the $18 million Clemens was due, a Bobby Abreu trade would become a greater possibility. A Manny Ramirez deal would be a real long shot, but even that would make some sense. Dec. 7 - 1:23 am et

[Ksyrup]

According to Newsday, the Mets have ramped up their discussions involving Barry Zito, and the club already has inquired about the possibility of signing him to an extension as part of any trade with the Athletics.
The Mets are probably going to have to part with Lastings Milledge to get Zito. They just don't have much else with a lot of trade value. Maybe if they could flip Kris Benson for a quality young hitter to pair with Aaron Heilman. Far more likely is that Milledge becomes the centerpiece of any Zito deal. Dec. 7 - 12:45 am et

[Ksyrup]

Sorry for the cut-and-pastes, they're just easier. And there's so much good info flying around right now...

[Ksyrup]

A source told the Washington Post that the Orioles are close to signing Ramon Hernandez to a three-year deal.
He's believed to be seeking $8 million per year. Hernandez's arrival would push Javy Lopez to first base or DH. Dec. 7 - 12:27 am et

[Ksyrup]

Reds are also paying $2M of Casey's $8.5M salary. Good deal for the Pirates. Who the hell is Dave Williams, anyway?

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Reds are also paying $2M of Casey's $8.5M salary. Good deal for the Pirates. Who the hell is Dave Williams, anyway?

A better pitcher than his '05 numbers indicate. He nosedived his last three starts otherwise he would've posted a much better record and a better ERA. Those last three starts really hurt him. He's a decent pitcher and it looks like the Reds need all the pitching they can get. Who plays first now, though?

[Ksyrup]

His BB/K ratio isn't that good, and 138 innings is the most he's ever had. Perhaps the nosedive at the end of last season was because he was fatigued. And if he reaches 120 innings by August next year, what are the Reds going to do with a useless starter? 20 HRs in 138 innings going to Cincy wouldn't thrill me, either.

I guess he's an arm and didn't totally embarrass himself last year, so that's a step in the right direction...

[Ksyrup]

Perhaps the Reds will sign ex-Pirates 1B Kevin Young to a multi-year deal.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by samifan24

Who plays first now, though?

Adam Dunn.

Wily Mo Pena said he wanted to be a regular player next season or be traded, so I think this move is basically so Griffey, Kearns, Pena, and Dunn can all play every day. Although all 4 of them seem to be injured at least during some portion of the season, so how much they'll play together is debatable.

Dave Williams gets a big ol' from me. Never heard of the guy.

[MizzouRah]

Wily Mo would look good in a Cardinal uniform.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Dave Williams gets a big ol' from me. Never heard of the guy.

If he plays his cards right, he has the potential to be Eric Milton.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

If he plays his cards right, he has the potential to be Eric Milton.

Milton had a few good starts last year.

Sadly for the Reds, those were sandwiched in between about 6 terrible starts on either side. The Reds failed to remember when acquiring Milton that picking up a pitcher who gives up homeruns in such large numbers as Milton is a bad idea in such a home run friendly park. He was awful last season.

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, that was meant as a joke. Or maybe not. Sadly, the guy doesn't even have that kind of track record to know what he's be. At least with Milton, you knew he could throw 200 innings (unless he was getting pulled early from every start).

[Ksyrup]

Maybe this will make you feel better:

"Cardinals manager Tony La Russa is especially high on Williams, calling him one of the NL's best left-handed starters last season even though the 26-year-old has only 17 career victories."

Maybe he's the next Tom Glavine/John Tudor.

[Ksyrup]

This is kinda funny:

"Casey, known as "The Mayor" in Cincinnati because of his outgoing personality and work in the community, had his jersey number retired by Upper St. Clair High School in suburban Pittsburgh several years ago. Williams' number was retired by the Pirates' Class A Williamsport farm club."


I had no clue minor league teams retired numbers.

Apparently Casey is from the Pittsburgh area, so maybe they're going to try to keep him long-term?