2013-14 NBA Season Thread

[Groundhog]

Wow.

Also in the 'wow' column for tonight, the double OT Magic-Sixers game had one player from each team with a triple double. They both also happened to be rookies - Oladipo and Carter-Williams. First time that's happened in the history of the NBA.

And the Thunder vs Kings, Perkins with a -17 +/- in a little over 15 minutes of court time, rookie Steve Adams with a +10 in in 13.5 minutes. It's well beyond a joke now.

[whomario]

which concludes another 0-3 night for Eastern Teams against the West.

Warriors need to get Igoudala back, even Ezeli and Douglas would help. Curry has now played 40+ minutes in 5 straight games. Him and Thompson combine for basically 7 made 3s a night on 45+% shooting, insane.

OKCs bench is playing great basketball right now. Still bizarre, that they are 13-3 with Durant still just at +5 net rating (team "only" 5 points better per 100 posessions).
Reggie Jackson has an insane +18 (best in the league for players with more than 10 games and more than 10 MPG), Fisher, Jones, Lamb and Collison all 10+.

Adams actually is the outlier here with exactly 0 in this category. Perkins is at -1.3.

The Spurs bench is almost equally good (and now Duncan gets his groove back), watching Ginobili, Bellinelli and Diaw is great. Basically for guys like Diaw and Belli you couldn´t invent a better system to play in.

[jbergey22]

The Nets get blown out at home again. How much longer can this continue?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

The Nets get blown out at home again. How much longer can this continue?

What can they possibly do? Just keep firing head coaches hoping that will change things? They are stuck with a lot of big contracts that are unmoveable for years. They have almost no draft picks for the foreseeable future. They went all-in. No point in tanking.

I guess the only bit of good news for them is they are in the Atlantic. So winning 35 games will give them the division. And they really haven't gotten a chance to play their division yet this year.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What can they possibly do? Just keep firing head coaches hoping that will change things? They are stuck with a lot of big contracts that are unmoveable for years. They have almost no draft picks for the foreseeable future. They went all-in. No point in tanking.

I guess the only bit of good news for them is they are in the Atlantic. So winning 35 games will give them the division. And they really haven't gotten a chance to play their division yet this year.

Kidd is beyond horrible and correct tanking wouldnt do any good since they dont have a first round pick.

[RainMaker]

What good coach would even want that job though? If they fire Kidd, that's 3 coaches in a year fired. It's an old roster with no flexibility and no draft picks.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What good coach would even want that job though? If they fire Kidd, that's 3 coaches in a year fired. It's an old roster with no flexibility and no draft picks.

It doesnt even have to be a good coach. Just any coach would be an improvement. Their games are over by halftime most nights. Its one thing to lose its another thing to embarrass yourself every time out there.

[RainMaker]

The funny thing is they demoted Lawrence Frank today and he's actually a really good coach.

[Neon_Chaos]

That Magic-76ers 2OT game was the most awful game I've seen in quite a while. That last overtime took a while to end.

[MrBug708]

Glad to see DWill thriving in Sactown after never playing in Minnesota

[Blackadar]

Celtics after 20 games: 8-12.

It seems that I really mis-read this team. I didn't think they'd crack 8 wins until sometime in 2014. It doesn't hurt that they play in a division that may be considered the all-time worst in NBA history. But Brad Stevens has these guys playing hard and playing to their strengths - something Doc didn't always do.

What's weird is that from a statistical standpoint, the guys are generally doing what you could have easily predicted. Green is 16.8/4.5. Bradley is averaging 13. Crawford is averaging 13. Sully 13/7 and PER 36 of 18/10 was predictable as long as he was healthy. Brandon Bass...Courtney Lee...these guys are doing what they're supposed to be doing. Perhaps only Humphries and Wallace could be considered disappointing. Yet the whole seems to be greater than the sum of the parts. Everyone is meeting expectations and different guys step up different nights to make a difference. Again, it doesn't hurt that they're healthy and play in perhaps the worst division in the worst conference of all time. They're also massive overachievers, with a -3.1 scoring differential but somehow higher in the standings than 6 teams who have a lesser differential.

It'll be interesting to see what happens when Rondo returns to the floor. The Cs, as of today, have home court advantage in the 1st round of the playoffs. If this team continues to mature (it is quite young) and Rondo returns, they may be a team that no one wants to face in the playoffs. Of course, they could as easily lose their next 10 games in a row. That makes for an exciting season.

PS - it's pretty much undeniable that Danny fleeced the Nets with the trade this summer. That one may go down in the record books as one of the best/worst trades of all time.

[Chief Rum]

Home court in the first round with that record? Good gawd, that division and that conference is so shitty. Maybe once Stern gets out of here, Silver can institute some system where teams with the best record, regardless of conference or divisional affiliation, will get into the playoffs. That way we don't have to subject ourselves to teams like the Celtics or Sixers possibly ending up with home court advantage even for a round.

[nol]

I think being the division winner only gets you a top four seed, so the 5 seed would have home court if it had the better record. The Nets need to go 9-1 in their next ten to have the same record that got Avery fired last season.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Glad to see DWill thriving in Sactown after never playing in Minnesota

Not sure if you're being facetious here. I'm glad to see him playing, and I think he can develop into a good player with consistent minutes, but I wouldn't call what's he done so far thriving.

Originally Posted by Blackadar

I didn't think they'd crack 8 wins until sometime in 2014.
...
What's weird is that from a statistical standpoint, the guys are generally doing what you could have easily predicted. Green is 16.8/4.5. Bradley is averaging 13. Crawford is averaging 13. Sully 13/7 and PER 36 of 18/10 was predictable as long as he was healthy. Brandon Bass...Courtney Lee...these guys are doing what they're supposed to be doing. Perhaps only Humphries and Wallace could be considered disappointing. Yet the whole seems to be greater than the sum of the parts.

Or you just (massively) underestimated the sum of the parts. Sorry if I come off like a dick, but like you say they're all just playing like you'd expect them to - the only player that's really been surprising has been Crawford at PG, and there were some signs of that in Washington when they actually played him. (Long-term, no question he's not a starting PG, but I think he'll fit well into that Nate Robinson instant scorer on bench units role. He'd actually be perfect for the Bulls right now.) Not sure why it took Stevens 4 games to realize things that were obvious (Green/Sully are the two best players and should always be in at crunch time - Sully wasn't really on him - and Avery Bradley cannot be a lead guard.)

They're also massive overachievers, with a -3.1 scoring differential but somehow higher in the standings than 6 teams who have a lesser differential.

That's actually right about accurate for a -3.1 differential. Last year the 76ers went 34-48 (.415) with a -3.3 and the Blazers went 33-49 (.402) with a -3.2. It's just absurd they're "4th" in the conference due to their division.

PS - it's pretty much undeniable that Danny fleeced the Nets with the trade this summer. That one may go down in the record books as one of the best/worst trades of all time.

I think we'd need to get multiple lottery, and at least one top 5 pick for that to happen, and that chance is greatly lessened due to the potential Atlanta-Bkn swap this season. I still think the Nets can "turn it around" enough to win the Atlantic this year (if they fire Kidd soon), and as long as Prokhorov is willing to throw money around you can't count on them being bad in 2016-2018.

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Home court in the first round with that record? Good gawd, that division and that conference is so shitty. Maybe once Stern gets out of here, Silver can institute some system where teams with the best record, regardless of conference or divisional affiliation, will get into the playoffs. That way we don't have to subject ourselves to teams like the Celtics or Sixers possibly ending up with home court advantage even for a round.

4 seeds don't automatically get home-court advantage. The 3 seed being 9-9 is more terrifying.

[molson]

Why does the NBA even need divisions if there's so many exceptions to seeding and home court? Is division rivalries even a thing that couldn't exist if the teams weren't grouped that way? You can't even really look at the standings and have an immediate sense of what's going on and who stands where.

The NHL took a step in the right direction, but even they had to unnecessarily complicate things by having only 6 of the playoff teams tied to the division structure, and then having 2 wild cards. If you're so concerned about teams being in better or worse position because of their division placement, just get rid of divisions and let the top 8 in each conference in the playoffs.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Or you just (massively) underestimated the sum of the parts. Sorry if I come off like a dick, but like you say they're all just playing like you'd expect them to - the only player that's really been surprising has been Crawford at PG, and there were some signs of that in Washington when they actually played him. (Long-term, no question he's not a starting PG, but I think he'll fit well into that Nate Robinson instant scorer on bench units role. He'd actually be perfect for the Bulls right now.) Not sure why it took Stevens 4 games to realize things that were obvious (Green/Sully are the two best players and should always be in at crunch time - Sully wasn't really on him - and Avery Bradley cannot be a lead guard.)

No, that was my point. I did underestimate them.

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

That's actually right about accurate for a -3.1 differential. Last year the 76ers went 34-48 (.415) with a -3.3 and the Blazers went 33-49 (.402) with a -3.2. It's just absurd they're "4th" in the conference due to their division.

Then perhaps it's better to say that the teams behind them with better point differentials are underachieving. I think my point there is that they probably can't maintain that negative point differential and still keep their place in the rankings. You'd have to figure the law of averages has to catch up to them (or their opponents) at some point.

That division, though...it's unspeakably bad.

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

II think we'd need to get multiple lottery, and at least one top 5 pick for that to happen, and that chance is greatly lessened due to the potential Atlanta-Bkn swap this season. I still think the Nets can "turn it around" enough to win the Atlantic this year (if they fire Kidd soon), and as long as Prokhorov is willing to throw money around you can't count on them being bad in 2016-2018.4 seeds don't automatically get home-court advantage. The 3 seed being 9-9 is more terrifying.

No, I think even mid-to-low 1st picks is a fleecing at this point.

I've always been a big fan of The Truth, but he just looks done at this point. He doesn't seem to have much lift and it's greatly impacted his shot. He just isn't hitting the net - .368 FG percentage? 20 games isn't much of a sample size and he can obviously turn things around, but this PP has over 40,000 minutes in his career. I'll continue to hope for the best for him, though - he's earned a lot of respect. The same goes for Garnett - huge respect, but the guy is averaging 6.5 ppg. SIX points a game at a 36% shooting percentage.

This trade is a failure for the Nets without a NBA finals appearance. They went all-in on the poker table with the acquisition of Pierce and Garnett and mortgaged the future of their team. So unless the Nets make a run, the Cs win the trade by default. Can the Nets turn it around? Stranger things have happened. But it's long way from 5-13 to even make the playoffs, never mind the deep run it would take to make this trade even close to even.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Couple crazy stats from the Raptors/Warriors 4th quarter last night:

Toronto had zero defensive rebounds.
Golden State averaged 2.07 points per possession.

Warriors fans are the best. Everyone in the arena was on their feet and loud as hell when they were down 15 points in the 4th.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by molson

Why does the NBA even need divisions if there's so many exceptions to seeding and home court? Is division rivalries even a thing that couldn't exist if the teams weren't grouped that way? You can't even really look at the standings and have an immediate sense of what's going on and who stands where.

The NHL took a step in the right direction, but even they had to unnecessarily complicate things by having only 6 of the playoff teams tied to the division structure, and then having 2 wild cards. If you're so concerned about teams being in better or worse position because of their division placement, just get rid of divisions and let the top 8 in each conference in the playoffs.

Abolish (Useless) NBA Divisions: Step 1 of a Radical Plan - The Triangle Blog - Grantland

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Abolish (Useless) NBA Divisions: Step 1 of a Radical Plan - The Triangle Blog - Grantland

Meh

[nol]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Or you just (massively) underestimated the sum of the parts.

Yeah, guys like Crawford and Green are producing about what you'd expect given their larger roles, but Stevens unquestionably has them playing greater than the sum of their parts on defense. They're in the top ten in points per possession allowed despite not having anyone you'd remotely consider to be a rim protector.

Also, the Nets are extremely unlikely to fire Kidd considering that they're currently paying Lawrence Frank $6 million over 6 years to be a glorified scout in order to appease Kidd. Even though money's clearly not an object, that kind of move would even more explicitly scream that they have no clue what they're doing.

[korme]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Glad to see DWill thriving in Sactown after never playing in Minnesota

13-6-2 per 36 min (3 games) in Sacramento. Zero made threes. 10 PER (lgave is 15). Thriving is an interesting word.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Home court in the first round with that record? Good gawd, that division and that conference is so shitty. Maybe once Stern gets out of here, Silver can institute some system where teams with the best record, regardless of conference or divisional affiliation, will get into the playoffs. That way we don't have to subject ourselves to teams like the Celtics or Sixers possibly ending up with home court advantage even for a round.

Nope. They would go in as a 4 seed, but HCA would belong to the 5 seed.

[molson]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Abolish (Useless) NBA Divisions: Step 1 of a Radical Plan - The Triangle Blog - Grantland

I like it. If only to clean up the standings and to be able to have a quick view of where everybody stands in the playoff race. It's telling that the ESPN NBA standing page defaults to conference standings, which is a little more helpful than breaking it down by division, but still gives an incomplete picture because it's still subject to the placement of division champions, which of course is mind-numbingly convoluted. (a division championship guarantees you one of the top 4 seeds, and not home court, and a 2nd-place division team can now be a 2nd seed in the conference, I think). WHY? Why make this hard to follow? What is the gain?

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Warriors fans are the best. Everyone in the arena was on their feet and loud as hell when they were down 15 points in the 4th.

I have to say that out of the three NBA home games I went to, Warriors fans were without a doubt the best.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

No, that was my point. I did underestimate them.



Then perhaps it's better to say that the teams behind them with better point differentials are underachieving. I think my point there is that they probably can't maintain that negative point differential and still keep their place in the rankings. You'd have to figure the law of averages has to catch up to them (or their opponents) at some point.

That division, though...it's unspeakably bad.



No, I think even mid-to-low 1st picks is a fleecing at this point.

I've always been a big fan of The Truth, but he just looks done at this point. He doesn't seem to have much lift and it's greatly impacted his shot. He just isn't hitting the net - .368 FG percentage? 20 games isn't much of a sample size and he can obviously turn things around, but this PP has over 40,000 minutes in his career. I'll continue to hope for the best for him, though - he's earned a lot of respect. The same goes for Garnett - huge respect, but the guy is averaging 6.5 ppg. SIX points a game at a 36% shooting percentage.

This trade is a failure for the Nets without a NBA finals appearance. They went all-in on the poker table with the acquisition of Pierce and Garnett and mortgaged the future of their team. So unless the Nets make a run, the Cs win the trade by default. Can the Nets turn it around? Stranger things have happened. But it's long way from 5-13 to even make the playoffs, never mind the deep run it would take to make this trade even close to even.

I don't know why you go all in like this season when it was obvious beforehand that at least 2-3 teams (heat, pacers, bulls) were still better than the nets. Can't complain though from Celtics perspective.

[jbergey22]

This Timberwolves/Spurs game in Mexico City is postponed because of smoke in the building. Id speculate the NBA has hesitations about future games in Mexico.

[Shkspr]

We should find out what Ray Lewis thinks about this...

[Atocep]

Thus far Anthony Bennett looks like he may have a chance to develop into a 12th man at some point in his career.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Thus far Anthony Bennett looks like he may have a chance to develop into a 12th man at some point in his career.

Given how lousy we've been, I don't see why they aren't giving him 20 minutes a night. Having said that, I also don't see why the dude is chucking up 3s on a regular basis. I can only think they are trying to make him our SF of the future, but the guy is an undersized stretch 4 at best.

I think he could be a good player at some point, but I don't think he's going to get the chance to really show what he can do with all the guys we have at PF/C.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Given how lousy we've been, I don't see why they aren't giving him 20 minutes a night. Having said that, I also don't see why the dude is chucking up 3s on a regular basis. I can only think they are trying to make him our SF of the future, but the guy is an undersized stretch 4 at best.

I think he could be a good player at some point, but I don't think he's going to get the chance to really show what he can do with all the guys we have at PF/C.

He shows flashes but tonight I see him miss a 4 foot shot by 8 feet, lol They probably dont feel real confident in him at the moment.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

He shows flashes but tonight I see him miss a 4 foot shot by 8 feet, lol They probably dont feel real confident in him at the moment.

I don't feel confident in any Cavalier at the moment.

That goes from Irving down, too. And 0Brown continues to show that he couldn't get the showtime-era Lakers to crack 80PPG on a regular basis.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I don't feel confident in any Cavalier at the moment.

That goes from Irving down, too. And 0Brown continues to show that he couldn't get the showtime-era Lakers to crack 80PPG on a regular basis.

Mike Brown should have to tithe his salary to LeBron.

Thunder-Blazers is a very exciting game going on right now. I can only imagine how intense it would be if it were Seattle-Portland. It's also good to see LaMarcus Aldridge show that a star player can be disgruntled about his team over the offseason and still give it his all and produce once the season starts.

[Izulde]

The thing about Bennett is that he's raw as hell. He was that way last season at UNLV, so anyone expecting him to an immediate contributor or have an instant impact was hoping for too much.

He's got the potential but I don't think Cleveland's the right place for him to develop it.

[bhlloy]

So how long does Kidd get? The Nets are flawed to all hell, but they still should be a lot better than that in the East.

[MikeVic]

So there were two 20-point blowouts and one 30-point blowouts... and those were the only games on. I didn't watch any of them and don't know what this says, but I'd have to imagine nights like these don't happen too often?

[Desnudo]

Celtics drop 64 on Denver in the first half

[DaddyTorgo]

Fucking Celtics. They can't even tank properly.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Would someone mind letting the Warriors know that they don't have to be down by 20 before they start playing basketball?

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Fucking Celtics. They can't even tank properly.

Rondo comes back = three seed

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Rondo comes back = three seed

They're not winning it all - they're better off tanking and building for the future.

[Desnudo]

Nah

[Desnudo]

Tank Watch Sponsored by Daddy Torgo now at 0% chance

[Neon_Chaos]

Kobe returns tonight. That's gonna be fun/awfulbad/good.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Tank Watch Sponsored by Daddy Torgo now at 0% chance

And this anti-tanking Celtics fan is loving it.

[nol]

The Raptors just traded Rudy Gay, Aaron Gray and Quincy Acy to the Kings for Greivis Vasquez, John Salmons, Patrick Patterson and Chuck Hayes.

Kings: probably the best thing for them is that this gives Isaiah Thomas more playing time. Will things work for Rudy Gay here? Probably not, but I feel kind of bad for him at this point. Likely lineup is Thomas-McLemore-Williams-Gay-Cousins, which seems interesting enough.

Raptors: now in super tank mode, although that could backfire since giving all of Gay's shots to other players might work better for them. Ujiri has gotten rid of a ton of bad salary in 6 months or so on the job. I'd like to see what he could do at my family's white elephant gift exchange.

More importantly, Kobe gets to make his return against a shorthanded Raptors team tonight!

[Izulde]

Going to be interesting to see how Kobe does tonight.

[korme]

Kobe thoughts:

He looked slow and sluggish. Says he's in great conditioning, but needs his "game legs" back. You can tell, he couldn't drive past anybody. I'm hoping that comes back with time, and hoping against hope we aren't moving into "Jordan Wizards era" stage here.

You can tell the Lakers are a better team when he's not on the floor. They move the ball around better without him, naturally, but that should change over time as everyone adjusts to playing together with him. It's like rebooting and starting over at training camp right now.

It's one game, so nothing to overreact about. His press conference was great. Acknowledged his timing for passing lanes was off (8 TOs), and he seemed a little overly optimistic about how he was moving. I think he might change his feelings on that once he watches tape. However, he was all smiles and you could tell he was loving being back.

I've never been a huge Kobe fan, but late into his career, I'm rooting for all the best for him.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by nol

The Raptors just traded Rudy Gay, Aaron Gray and Quincy Acy to the Kings for Greivis Vasquez, John Salmons, Patrick Patterson and Chuck Hayes.

Kings: probably the best thing for them is that this gives Isaiah Thomas more playing time. Will things work for Rudy Gay here? Probably not, but I feel kind of bad for him at this point. Likely lineup is Thomas-McLemore-Williams-Gay-Cousins, which seems interesting enough.

Raptors: now in super tank mode, although that could backfire since giving all of Gay's shots to other players might work better for them. Ujiri has gotten rid of a ton of bad salary in 6 months or so on the job. I'd like to see what he could do at my family's white elephant gift exchange.

More importantly, Kobe gets to make his return against a shorthanded Raptors team tonight!

Rudy Gay and DeMarcus Cousins on the same team? This will be fun.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Rudy Gay and DeMarcus Cousins on the same team? This will be fun.

High usage players that dont get a lot of assists. Maybe Gay can evolve into a better passer or this could turn into an issue.

[Groundhog]

Yikes. Kings front office are terrible. They bring in pieces seemingly without any ability to imagine how they'd fit together on the court.