50 States Game (FINISHED!)

[Buccaneer]

Texas (tarcone): 19

Palo Duro (NB) 4
Dallas Cowboys (SA) 5
Oil (AR) 5
The Alamo (HC) 5

A very strong entry. Regarding Palo Duro, it is in the panhandle, Lonesome Dove is down on the Rio Grande. Also, I would check some of the canyons in Mexico, which is also is in North America. Not a whole lot in the way of Nature/Beauty in Texas so I would agree that Palo Duro went for the "spectacular" vote. I personally didn’t rate it a 4 because as you will see, I grade on a curve not on its own merit. But I can’t quibble with it ending up a 4. The SA scores are scored, imo, as a whole: going from elite down to the lower tier teams. I had put Cowboys as a 4 because of recent struggles (I think I went with more of a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately mindset). But there’s no argument that the Cowboys had been among the elites. Can’t argue much with the Oil score but it would be the only state that gets a 5 for that resource. Finally, I didn’t put Alamo at 5 because I know too much of its real history, not what the Sons of Texas wants to perpetuate. In the end, I had Texas as tied for the 2^nd highest in the 1^st round and the final scores do show a strong entry.

[Buccaneer]

Massachusetts (gstelmack): 17

Patriots [SA] 4
Cranberries [AR] 4
Freedom Trail [HC] 5
Martha's Vineyard [NB] 4

Again, I went with current events and scored the Pats higher. Certainly an elite team over the past 5 years but I think the other judges thought more of a lifetime score. That’s cool. Cranberries are underrated as a resource and Mass is certainly the state for it. Very nice choice, imo. As far as the HC, you really can’t do better than the Freedom Trail (esp. in the scope of American history) and how they incorporated more than just the Revolutionary period. MV is a good choice and I would have to think of what in Mass would garner a 5; perhaps Cape Cod? I didn’t follow the bidding too much but I would guess that Texas and Mass probably went for big bucks and deservedly so.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

2 points for bacon? This country was founded on bacon! (I guess I should have used diamonds)

For the sports, I was thinking of using 'Razorback track' because they have won 42 national titles but I wasn't sure if winning would have given me points over using a more popular sport team. Plus I wasn't sure if 'Razorback Track' would have lead the judges to Track and Field.

I thought about using Trail of Tears for HC but couldn't because of the two word limit. I don't know if it was going to give me more points than Pea Ridge though. The Trail of Tears does go through the battlefield, so maybe it was counted.

Originally Posted by The Rules

• Players must fill the value slots of their state using only ONE OR TWO WORDS. What words to choose is entirely at the discretion of the players, but the value of each slot is dependent upon the judges’ understanding of the words. It’s up to the players to decide whether to be specific or general with their words
• Value slots are awarded points based on the following categories: Natural beauty [NB], Sports and Attractions [SA], Agriculture and Resources [AR], and History and Culture [HC]

[NB]Hot Springs. Hard to beat that. Depending on how well our judges knew the area, I'd contend Greers Ferry is a wonderful place.

[SA]I think Nolan Richardson and his Razorback teams are probably more well known than the football team, but the Passion Play in Northeast Arkansas may have been what I would have gone with. The statue of Jesus there was seen in some movie I watched recently.

[HC]I'm not sure I would have gone Pea Ridge here. Bill Clinton and Johnny Cash are well known "historical" figures. Cash spent his youth in Arkansas. Watching "Walk the Line" actually made me think of my years there as well.

[AR]There's no way I would have gone with bacon here. The diamond mine would be my first choice, cotton a close second.

[Poli]

Bucc, out of curiousity, how would I have done?

[Buccaneer]

Pennsylvania (path12): 17

(HC) Continental Congress 4
(HC) Gettysburg 5
(NB) Poconos: Autumn 4
(SA) Pittsburgh Steelers 5
-1 penalty

I think this was a calculated (and good) strategy since I don’t know if path could have come up with a AG that would have scored higher than a 3. I understand the outcry of scoring Cont Congress a 4 (which was what I scored it as well) but a slightly different entry would have scored it a 5: Independence Declaration. Going with Cont Congress, you have take it as a whole and once the Rev War started, they were more of a hindrance than help. In other words, Cont Congress pre-war gets a 5, post-war gets 3. Poconos Autumn is an interesting choice, not one that many would think of (comparatively speaking). The other two entries are among the elites in the country and worth bidding a lot for.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Bucc, out of curiousity, how would I have done?

Wait till I get down the list and I'll include yours. I find it funny that both of you missed that one AG that would get Arkansas a 5 (and it ain't Tyson's either).

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Wait till I get down the list and I'll include yours. I find it funny that both of you missed that one AG that would get Arkansas a 5 (and it ain't Tyson's either).

I can't wait to hear this.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

MV is a good choice and I would have to think of what in Mass would garner a 5; perhaps Cape Cod?

I thought long and hard about Cape Cod, but figured the judges might consider it more of a tourist trap nowadays and ding it a bit. So I took MV as the safe choice here.

[Wolfpack]

I think I'll go on the record here and say I'm not going to divulge my scoring philosophy because I don't want to have people trying to bend their choices to fit what I think is a good thing. I'd rather see what people come up with without input directly or indirectly from me about what is good.

I will however say that I think Bucc's a more strident grader than I am given the actual scores versus what I assigned.

[Buccaneer]

Montana (Butter of 69): 16

Yellowstone Park [SA] 5
Little Bighorn [HC] 4
Great Plains [AR] 2
Glacier Park [NB] 5

Very interesting selection and one that took a while to see. But since the other judges are okay with it, I’d say the gamble paid off. Quick. Name one Yellowstone attraction that is in Montana. Bighorn is the most famous historical event in Montana and deserves a solid 4 but not a 5 since it really wasn’t that important (just very notorious and mythical). But Great Plains is a very weak choice and the score reflects that. I don’t think Montana would really lay claim to it even though more if it falls within its borders (but not all of the state does). There are a number of choices that would have scored a 3 for AR and one that could have possible scored a 4: Anaconda Copper, which was one of the largest and famous copper mines and boomtown (Butte).

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

I think I'll go on the record here and say I'm not going to divulge my scoring philosophy because I don't want to have people trying to bend their choices to fit what I think is a good thing. I'd rather see what people come up with without input directly or indirectly from me about what is good.

I will however say that I think Bucc's a more strident grader than I am given the actual scores versus what I assigned.

If I were one of the players, I would respond in saying what's the point of playing? I would think most of the participants would love to hear some analysis and critique (both good and bad) since they did put quite a bit of thought, not only in bidding one the states, but with a mind towards formulating their entries. If they get no feedback, then this would just be a dry, academic exercise. Look at all of the other bidding games we've had here, the fun lies not so much in "winning" but in playing.

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

[SA]I think Nolan Richardson and his Razorback teams are probably more well known than the football team, but the Passion Play in Northeast Arkansas may have been what I would have gone with. The statue of Jesus there was seen in some movie I watched recently.

It was a toss up between the basketball and football teams. Basketball hs the National Championship but I find Nolan Richardson to be a divisive figure. I went football because well its football and the team produced MattJones4Heisman.

[HC]I'm not sure I would have gone Pea Ridge here. Bill Clinton and Johnny Cash are well known "historical" figures. Cash spent his youth in Arkansas. Watching "Walk the Line" actually made me think of my years there as well.

Speaking of divisive figures, we have Bill. Really didn't want to go there. Johnny Cash never came to mind and I'm not sure how he would have scored. I wasn't sure how people would score as opposed to places.

[AR]There's no way I would have gone with bacon here. The diamond mine would be my first choice, cotton a close second.

I did think about diamonds but I just don't associate Arkansas with diamonds. I went with bacon/pork because of the Razorbacks and the "Calling the hogs" association.

[Buccaneer]

Maine (Masked): 16

Lobster [AR] 5
Acadia Park [NB] 5
Maine Hockey [SA] 3
Aroostook War [HC] 3

I think the scores were right on, two superb ones and two mediocre ones. Maine Lobsters are one of the most famous/best food-based AR one could come up with and Acadia Park is one of the elites. For SA, you picked a niche sport, nationally speaking. I think I would have gone another AR (blueberries?) or NB (Maine Coastline) and taken the penalty in hoping to get a 5. As far as Aroostook War, I don’t think very many would even know what period of history were are talking about (and a boundary dispute wouldn’t rank for high anyway). Admittedly, Maine is relative weaker in history compared to their New England brethens but I think I would have gone with the culture side of it or at least picked a maritime history.

[Buccaneer]

Arizona (Anxiety): 15

Grand Canyon (NB) 5
Oldwest: Tombstone (HC) 4
Hoover Dam (AR) 3
Kartchner Caverns (SA) 3

One would pick up Arizona just to score 5 on the Grand Canyon. Tombstone is a solid choice and since Arizona was a state historically that people had to slog through to get somewhere else, Tombstone would be the one historical place that would get a 4. However, you missed the culture part and I would have thought of the Hopis or at least Navajos for a chance at a 5. Hooever Dam getting 3 appears to be low, esp. in a state that has more desert than anything else. I don’t know but I can’t articulate why even though I scored it a 3 as well. Kartchner is scored about right, I believe, since it is only a State Park, albeit a very, very nice cave. With the recent dearth of sports teams, I think I would have gone with Monument Valley as an attraction.

[Buccaneer]

Arkansas (TazFTW): 12

Pea Ridge (HC) 3
Razorback football (SA) 3
Hot Springs (NB) 4
BACON! (AR) 2

We finally get to Arkansas. At least it scored higher than NJ, KY and DE! Even though Coug and I are Civil War veterans , Pea Ridge is still in the Trans-Mississippi Theatre which most people didn’t and still don’t care about. I think the score for Razorback football is about right because even though it is important within the state, it just doesn’t rank up there with other like teams in the region. Hot Springs is an excellent choice, one that I will remember for its natural (and man-made) beauty. Bacon? Did Wal-Mart have a sale on them or something? Tyson does not even have a bacon-producing plant in Arkansas and the state in not one of the leading hog producers. That’s why. What would have gotten a 5 from me (and probably a 4 from the other judges) is a famous world-wide staple that Arkansas is #1 in (US): RICE!

Ardent: I don’t know if Clinton or Cash would have score higher for HC. Cotton or diamonds may score a 3 for AR. Outside of Wal-Mart, Rice and Hot Springs, it’s a tough state.

[Buccaneer]

New Jersey (sachmo71 & JeeberD): 11

Blueberries [AR] 3
Vince Lombardi [SA] 2
AC Boardwalk [SA] 3
Washington's Crossing [HC] 4
-1 penalty

Blueberries are not New Jersey’s biggest crops; cranberries and eggplants are (I had to look that up). Even though NJ lays claims to the Blueberry Capital of the World, Maine (since we’ve already done it) is maybe more famous for it. The reason Vince Lombardi scored so low is that he was just born in New Jersey – he was raised in the Bronx or Brooklyn, I forget which. I wouldn’t have sacrificed NB for it, esp. when you could have thrown in Cape May. I don’t know if the Giants or Jets would have scored higher for SA, or perhaps the Devils, instead of sleazy AC. Washington’s Crossing is a solid choice, one that also makes me think of the Battle of Trenton and Princeton – a definite turning point in the Rev War.

[Buccaneer]

Kentucky (radii & Oliegirl): 11


Kentucky Derby [SA] 5
Kent State [HC] 0
Mammoth Cave [NB] 4
Lincoln Birthplace [HC] 3
-1 penalty


Besides the Kent State debacle, I think you made the biggest mistake on Lincoln’s birthplace. Not only do most not know where it is but one does not associate KY with Lincoln (no more than one would associate Jefferson Davis with it). But here’s the real reason: you gave up an obvious 5 for AR: Bluegrass (or KY) Thoroughbreds!

[Buccaneer]

Delaware (wade moore): 10


Blue Hens [SA] 3
Bethany Beach [NB] 2
Constitution Ratification [HC] 3
Poultry [AR] 2

Tough state. A third-rate college team, a fourth-rate beach (relatively speaking) and an AR that half of the other states can claim. Regarding Constitution Ratification, just because it was the first (Penn was only 5 days later), it wasn’t a pivotal point nor a monumental event. Important in the overall process, yes, but not something revolutionary - a soild 3. But I think you missed out on scoring a 4 or 5 (at least from me) for something similar. Hint: take a look at Delaware’s quarter! Now that was a pivotal event, much underrated, imo.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Delaware (wade moore): 10


Blue Hens [SA] 3
Bethany Beach [NB] 2
Constitution Ratification [HC] 3
Poultry [AR] 2

Tough state. A third-rate college team, a fourth-rate beach (relatively speaking) and an AR that half of the other states can claim. Regarding Constitution Ratification, just because it was the first (Penn was only 5 days later), it wasn’t a pivotal point nor a monumental event. Important in the overall process, yes, but not something revolutionary - a soild 3. But I think you missed out on scoring a 4 or 5 (at least from me) for something similar. Hint: take a look at Delaware’s quarter! Now that was a pivotal event, much underrated, imo.

You're right that this state was a struggle... it was a "value" choice for me and I still think I did about as well as I could have...

I would argue with the "third-rate college team", but only slightly... They are one of 2 Division I-AA football teams that makes money. They draw around 20k per game (very good for I-AA) and one the National Championship in 2003 and have been a major contender every year since. All of that being said, I can't argue that much with getting a 3 here, but if there was a I-AA fan judge I may have garnered a 4 ...

For the Beach - yeah.. Deleware doesn't have much NB ...

For AR - Deleware is 8th in the nation for poultry, when you talk relative to size that is pretty impressive, so I took a shot..


As for the Caesar Rodney thing - had no idea who he was until I just looked up the Deleware Quarter to see what you were talking about... so, I'm not going to get too down on myself here... I still think 10 points for an $11 state is good, considering Texas was I believe over $40 and got 19 points...

[path12]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I understand the outcry of scoring Cont Congress a 4 (which was what I scored it as well) but a slightly different entry would have scored it a 5: Independence Declaration. Going with Cont Congress, you have take it as a whole and once the Rev War started, they were more of a hindrance than help. In other words, Cont Congress pre-war gets a 5, post-war gets 3.

Didn't consider the pre/post war implications. I was trying to encompass the entire scope of the revolution and development of the republic. I can still remember tagging around on one of the night tours of the area and was just awed by the sense of history. Thanks for the explanation.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Very interesting selection and one that took a while to see. But since the other judges are okay with it, I’d say the gamble paid off. Quick. Name one Yellowstone attraction that is in Montana.

I actually thought this was the misplaced attraction, I had missed the Kent State thing originally.

[Buccaneer]

I still think 10 points for an $11 state is good, considering Texas was I believe over $40 and got 19 points...

I had not looked at the cost so I fully agree that you got a good value state. It appears that you still need to spend a lot on another state to make up the 8 points though.

I actually thought this was the misplaced attraction, I had missed the Kent State thing originally.

At least Montana has 3 gateways to Yellowstone. It would be interesting to see if this makes a difference in the end.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

What would have gotten a 5 from me (and probably a 4 from the other judges) is a famous world-wide staple that Arkansas is #1 in (US): RICE!

Ardent: I don’t know if Clinton or Cash would have score higher for HC. Cotton or diamonds may score a 3 for AR. Outside of Wal-Mart, Rice and Hot Springs, it’s a tough state.

Interesting. I guess living in northeast Arkansas and being surrounded by cotton and cotton gins influenced my thought process. Looking for HC is tough, though I'd like to think a former President would garner more than a 3, regardless of his past.

Having the only diamond mine in North America should have garnered a higher score, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by www.arkansas.com

Crater of Diamonds State Park – North America’s largest diamond (40.23 carats) and more than 70,000 other diamonds have been found in a field south of Murfreesboro since farmer John Huddleston discovered the first such gems there in 1906. Now the eroding surface of a volcanic pipe located about three miles south of Murfreesboro is preserved as Crater of Diamonds State Park, the world’s only site where, for a small fee, anyone can dig for diamonds and keep what they find

Until 10 years ago, it was the only diamond mine in the United States. I know as a kid in the state, we were proud of that.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Delaware (wade moore): 10


Blue Hens [SA] 3
Bethany Beach [NB] 2
Constitution Ratification [HC] 3
Poultry [AR] 2

Tough state. A third-rate college team, a fourth-rate beach (relatively speaking) and an AR that half of the other states can claim. Regarding Constitution Ratification, just because it was the first (Penn was only 5 days later), it wasn’t a pivotal point nor a monumental event. Important in the overall process, yes, but not something revolutionary - a soild 3. But I think you missed out on scoring a 4 or 5 (at least from me) for something similar. Hint: take a look at Delaware’s quarter! Now that was a pivotal event, much underrated, imo.

HC-Definitely should have been Caesar Rodney. Caesar was my nickname in high school, Rodney is my first name.

[Wolfpack]

After some thought, I'll fall in with Bucc and post my considerations on grading the choices. My evaluations to follow....

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Texas (tarcone): 19

Palo Duro (NB) 4
Dallas Cowboys (SA) 5
Oil (AR) 5
The Alamo (HC) 5

A very strong entry. Regarding Palo Duro, it is in the panhandle, Lonesome Dove is down on the Rio Grande. Also, I would check some of the canyons in Mexico, which is also is in North America. Not a whole lot in the way of Nature/Beauty in Texas so I would agree that Palo Duro went for the "spectacular" vote. I personally didn’t rate it a 4 because as you will see, I grade on a curve not on its own merit. But I can’t quibble with it ending up a 4. The SA scores are scored, imo, as a whole: going from elite down to the lower tier teams. I had put Cowboys as a 4 because of recent struggles (I think I went with more of a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately mindset). But there’s no argument that the Cowboys had been among the elites. Can’t argue much with the Oil score but it would be the only state that gets a 5 for that resource. Finally, I didn’t put Alamo at 5 because I know too much of its real history, not what the Sons of Texas wants to perpetuate. In the end, I had Texas as tied for the 2^nd highest in the 1^st round and the final scores do show a strong entry.

I generally agreed with Bucc's evaluations. Texas got high marks because, well, it's Texas. Everything's bigger in Texas and the choices were generally what I would think of first for each category in Texas.

The Cowboys were pretty much a no-brainer for a sports/leisure item. Five Super Bowls is hard to argue with and they are the pinnacle team in a football-mad state.

Oil is the best known resource for Texas and perhaps only Louisiana or Alaska would get similar consideration.

The Alamo is Texas history. There is no Texas without it, even if it's oversold a bit. Sam Houston and Stephen Austin would also have been good choices.

Palo Duro, while impressive, was not what I think of for natural beauty in Texas, however. My thoughts run elsewhere like Big Bend NP, Guadalupe Mts NP, or perhaps the Hill Country. However, the pictures I saw were sufficient for me to give it a good score anyway.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Massachusetts (gstelmack): 17

Patriots [SA] 4
Cranberries [AR] 4
Freedom Trail [HC] 5
Martha's Vineyard [NB] 4

Again, I went with current events and scored the Pats higher. Certainly an elite team over the past 5 years but I think the other judges thought more of a lifetime score. That’s cool. Cranberries are underrated as a resource and Mass is certainly the state for it. Very nice choice, imo. As far as the HC, you really can’t do better than the Freedom Trail (esp. in the scope of American history) and how they incorporated more than just the Revolutionary period. MV is a good choice and I would have to think of what in Mass would garner a 5; perhaps Cape Cod? I didn’t follow the bidding too much but I would guess that Texas and Mass probably went for big bucks and deservedly so.

I went the opposite of Bucc on the Patriots. They've been recently dominant, but if you look at pro sports in Massachusetts, the Red Sox and Celtics are almost certainly the greater historical franchises.

Cranberries were a good choice. Can't really pick another strong resource option from Mass. Maybe swordfish?

Freedom Trail is excellent. Covers all the major historical sites in Boston and vicinity, rather than relying on the strength of any one by itself. Bunker Hill might have gotten a similar score, but that might be it.

Martha's Vineyard is a good choice, though this was a reputation vote from me. I've never been there or really seen many images, but everyone seems to like it very well. Cape Cod or Nantucket might've also gotten similar scores. Maybe the Berkshires as well.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Pennsylvania (path12): 17

(HC) Continental Congress 4
(HC) Gettysburg 5
(NB) Poconos: Autumn 4
(SA) Pittsburgh Steelers 5
-1 penalty

I think this was a calculated (and good) strategy since I don’t know if path could have come up with a AG that would have scored higher than a 3. I understand the outcry of scoring Cont Congress a 4 (which was what I scored it as well) but a slightly different entry would have scored it a 5: Independence Declaration. Going with Cont Congress, you have take it as a whole and once the Rev War started, they were more of a hindrance than help. In other words, Cont Congress pre-war gets a 5, post-war gets 3. Poconos Autumn is an interesting choice, not one that many would think of (comparatively speaking). The other two entries are among the elites in the country and worth bidding a lot for.

Interesting to go with the two histories over the resource choice. Could have gone with steel or coal or iron for the AR choice.

Continental Congress was a good choice, but there are much more visceral things to choose from. "Liberty Bell" or "Independence Hall" would probably have gotten a "5" from me.

Gettysburg needs no explanation. Single biggest battle in American history and the turning point of the most important war in America's history. Can't get much higher than that.

Nice choice on the Poconos, but I couldn't max it out because I've not had the pleasure of experiencing it myself. I can imagine it pretty well, though.

Finally, the Steelers are the most decorated franchise in state history with five Super Bowl championships. Not a hard decision. Could possibly have chosen "Chuck Noll", "Dr. J", "Penn State", or "Joe Paterno" and gotten at least a four if not a five out of it.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Montana (Butter of 69): 16

Yellowstone Park [SA] 5
Little Bighorn [HC] 4
Great Plains [AR] 2
Glacier Park [NB] 5

Very interesting selection and one that took a while to see. But since the other judges are okay with it, I’d say the gamble paid off. Quick. Name one Yellowstone attraction that is in Montana. Bighorn is the most famous historical event in Montana and deserves a solid 4 but not a 5 since it really wasn’t that important (just very notorious and mythical). But Great Plains is a very weak choice and the score reflects that. I don’t think Montana would really lay claim to it even though more if it falls within its borders (but not all of the state does). There are a number of choices that would have scored a 3 for AR and one that could have possible scored a 4: Anaconda Copper, which was one of the largest and famous copper mines and boomtown (Butte).

I guess I should own up to Yellowstone getting the '5', though most of it's in Wyoming. For whatever reason, I had West Yellowstone, Montana stuck in my head, so that may have contributed to it. In all honesty, it probably shouldn't have scored that well, but c'est la vie. (If it's used for Idaho or Wyoming, I may or may not score the same way. I haven't decided yet.)

Little Bighorn, given general lack of history for Montana, was a very good choice. "Lewis, Clark" could also have worked since they probably covered more miles in Montana than any other eventual state.

Great Plains was a rather banal choice. The area is pretty huge and lots of states can lay claim to it. I might've gone higher if "Big Sky" was used instead, which is a more uniquely Montanan expression for the same thing. Bucc understands the history of the Rockies probably a lot better than I do, so I may not have been as inclined to score Anaconda Copper as highly as he might.

Glacier Park is another of those "reputation" scores. Never been there, but everyone says it's spectacular and it is a place I'd like to go see myself someday, so the '5' is definitely warranted.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Maine (Masked): 16

Lobster [AR] 5
Acadia Park [NB] 5
Maine Hockey [SA] 3
Aroostook War [HC] 3

I think the scores were right on, two superb ones and two mediocre ones. Maine Lobsters are one of the most famous/best food-based AR one could come up with and Acadia Park is one of the elites. For SA, you picked a niche sport, nationally speaking. I think I would have gone another AR (blueberries?) or NB (Maine Coastline) and taken the penalty in hoping to get a 5. As far as Aroostook War, I don’t think very many would even know what period of history were are talking about (and a boundary dispute wouldn’t rank for high anyway). Admittedly, Maine is relative weaker in history compared to their New England brethens but I think I would have gone with the culture side of it or at least picked a maritime history.

Agree with Bucc that there were two good choices and two, well, okay choices.

Lobsters are a clear easy choice for AR because Maine simply is known for it. Doesn't hurt that I love lobster.

Acadia is perfect for Maine. Can't really add much there.

Maine hockey is somewhat difficult to give a high mark for because not a large amount of people overall follow college hockey or are aware of what success, if any, the Black Bears have had in hockey. Me being a college sports follower, I'm aware of it, but it's not something people think of when it comes to Maine sports. Could have gone with "Appalachian Trail" or "Mount Kathadin" and that would have gotten higher marks with me.

Aroostook War I did probably mark a little high. Given the general lack of great history in Maine, it is one of Maine's most notable events, even if there weren't many shots fired in anger about it. I probably graded it based on its lack of competition, not on familiarity. Maybe "20th Maine" or "JL Chamberlain" would have been more deserving.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Arizona (Anxiety): 15

Grand Canyon (NB) 5
Oldwest: Tombstone (HC) 4
Hoover Dam (AR) 3
Kartchner Caverns (SA) 3

One would pick up Arizona just to score 5 on the Grand Canyon. Tombstone is a solid choice and since Arizona was a state historically that people had to slog through to get somewhere else, Tombstone would be the one historical place that would get a 4. However, you missed the culture part and I would have thought of the Hopis or at least Navajos for a chance at a 5. Hooever Dam getting 3 appears to be low, esp. in a state that has more desert than anything else. I don’t know but I can’t articulate why even though I scored it a 3 as well. Kartchner is scored about right, I believe, since it is only a State Park, albeit a very, very nice cave. With the recent dearth of sports teams, I think I would have gone with Monument Valley as an attraction.

Yep. The Grand Canyon State is well known for, um, the Grand Canyon (among a whole lot of other natural wonders). That's an easy five points to award.

Tombstone is also about where it should be. Everyone knows about it and is familiar with the legends behind it. Still isn't a significant moment in American history, but screams "Oldwest" (to borrow the contracted phrase) Americana. Not sure what I could come up with that could go higher though. Navajos probably would have been a good choice, points-wise, as the largest Native group in America, along with their well-known contributions during World War II.

Hoover Dam was a prickly one. For one thing, it's one of those resources that's shared with another state, so that diminishes it a little (then again, I was the one who rewarded Montana with a '5' for Yellowstone, so I'm being inconsistent in my judging, I admit). It's also a little difficult to say it's a resource rather than a landmark, though it basically generates electricity for places like Las Vegas. Copper would have another choice for AR because Arizona's got a large association with copper (after all, the Insight.com Bowl was begun as the Copper Bowl in Tucson).

As for the SA choice of Kartchner Caverns, I was not familiar with it, so it just was another cave to me (not slighting it, mind you, just never heard of it). The Suns have had some success in the NBA and the Wildcats and Lute Olsen are well-known commodities outside the state, so those would have been good choices.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Arkansas (TazFTW): 12

Pea Ridge (HC) 3
Razorback football (SA) 3
Hot Springs (NB) 4
BACON! (AR) 2

We finally get to Arkansas. At least it scored higher than NJ, KY and DE! Even though Coug and I are Civil War veterans , Pea Ridge is still in the Trans-Mississippi Theatre which most people didn’t and still don’t care about. I think the score for Razorback football is about right because even though it is important within the state, it just doesn’t rank up there with other like teams in the region. Hot Springs is an excellent choice, one that I will remember for its natural (and man-made) beauty. Bacon? Did Wal-Mart have a sale on them or something? Tyson does not even have a bacon-producing plant in Arkansas and the state in not one of the leading hog producers. That’s why. What would have gotten a 5 from me (and probably a 4 from the other judges) is a famous world-wide staple that Arkansas is #1 in (US): RICE!

Ardent: I don’t know if Clinton or Cash would have score higher for HC. Cotton or diamonds may score a 3 for AR. Outside of Wal-Mart, Rice and Hot Springs, it’s a tough state.

Arkansas was one of those where I think I probably over-estimated some things. They're all solid choices and they all seem to fit in as Arkansan items, but overall against the rest of America, they do suffer a bit.

Pea Ridge may be the only battle anyone might have heard of that occurred in the Trans-Mississippi theater during the Civil War, and it was a pretty big battle. It's debatable what historical impact on the overall course of the war might have been, though. However, choosing Clinton or Johnny Cash wouldn't have done anything for me, either. Perhaps "National Guard" for the desegregation of the Little Rock schools? That was a watershed event.

As for the Razorbacks, with the state lacking in any pro sports teams, the football team is probably the closest thing and it does have a strong historical tradition, though not one with championships littering it. Can't really think of a good alternative, though.

Hot Springs NP is a good choice, but it's not one well known for natural beauty (it's basically housed in a town, almost). Still, it's a NP, so it can't suck.

I will also freely admit to probably giving Arkansas too high a mark for bacon. It's a pretty common commodity, but I liked the enthusiasm displayed. Fortunately, other more rational people saw through it and gave a more realistic mark for it.

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

I will also freely admit to probably giving Arkansas too high a mark for bacon. It's a pretty common commodity, but I liked the enthusiasm displayed. Fortunately, other more rational people saw through it and gave a more realistic mark for it.

Boo rationality! Hooray Bacon!

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

New Jersey (sachmo71 & JeeberD): 11

Blueberries [AR] 3
Vince Lombardi [SA] 2
AC Boardwalk [SA] 3
Washington's Crossing [HC] 4
-1 penalty

Blueberries are not New Jersey’s biggest crops; cranberries and eggplants are (I had to look that up). Even though NJ lays claims to the Blueberry Capital of the World, Maine (since we’ve already done it) is maybe more famous for it. The reason Vince Lombardi scored so low is that he was just born in New Jersey – he was raised in the Bronx or Brooklyn, I forget which. I wouldn’t have sacrificed NB for it, esp. when you could have thrown in Cape May. I don’t know if the Giants or Jets would have scored higher for SA, or perhaps the Devils, instead of sleazy AC. Washington’s Crossing is a solid choice, one that also makes me think of the Battle of Trenton and Princeton – a definite turning point in the Rev War.

Blueberries was an okay choice, but given that most people tend to associate New Jersey with toxicity levels, I'm not sure how well known that fact is as a resource.

VL was not the best choice for New Jersey, either. I have read elsewhere that he actually wasn't born in NJ, but in NY and moved to NJ. He started out coaching high school ball there, but everything he's known for isn't in New Jersey. The Devils would have been a better play with their three Cups. After that, the ranks are a little thin for sports teams. I guess you could argue the Giants a little since they won both Super Bowls while New Jersey residents.

The Boardwalk was an okay choice. It's a well-known entity, though I don't know about sacrificing another category for it or Vince Lombardi. "Miss America" might have done better as an attraction, though even that's going the way of the dodo now (not even held in AC anymore).

Washington's Crossing, however, is definitely a great New Jersey event. It's featured on NJ's quarter, which is based on one of the most well-known paintings in American history (even if the picture is factually inaccurate). Yes, they launched from PA, but everything that came out of it happened in NJ. The Battle of Trenton never happens without it because just about everything else associated with that attack failed.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Kentucky (radii & Oliegirl): 11


Kentucky Derby [SA] 5
Kent State [HC] 0
Mammoth Cave [NB] 4
Lincoln Birthplace [HC] 3
-1 penalty


Besides the Kent State debacle, I think you made the biggest mistake on Lincoln’s birthplace. Not only do most not know where it is but one does not associate KY with Lincoln (no more than one would associate Jefferson Davis with it). But here’s the real reason: you gave up an obvious 5 for AR: Bluegrass (or KY) Thoroughbreds!

The Derby was a home run as a sporting event. Easily the most prestigious and well-known horse race anywhere.

Mammoth Cave was a strong choice, so nothing to add there.

As for Lincoln's birthplace, while he is an Illinoisan by adoption, I would argue that his birth being in Kentucky is a much more broadly known fact (simply because he ranks as one of the two or three greatest presidents on most historical lists) than Jeff Davis's birth there. Therefore, this didn't seem terribly wrong to me.

Now, given the screw-up with the Kent State response, there could have been a number of other choices. As Bucc said, bluegrass and thoroughbreds are good choices. Could also think about coal as an AR type. Perhaps even the Ohio River itself for all the traffic it has carried and it continues to carry.

You could also have gone with a second sports one rather than a second historical one and gone with the Wildcats or Cardinals or Adolph Rupp in college basketball, any one of which would have strong traditions to lean on.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Delaware (wade moore): 10


Blue Hens [SA] 3
Bethany Beach [NB] 2
Constitution Ratification [HC] 3
Poultry [AR] 2

Tough state. A third-rate college team, a fourth-rate beach (relatively speaking) and an AR that half of the other states can claim. Regarding Constitution Ratification, just because it was the first (Penn was only 5 days later), it wasn’t a pivotal point nor a monumental event. Important in the overall process, yes, but not something revolutionary - a soild 3. But I think you missed out on scoring a 4 or 5 (at least from me) for something similar. Hint: take a look at Delaware’s quarter! Now that was a pivotal event, much underrated, imo.

I wasn't nearly as harsh about Delaware. I tended to view Wade's answers here more within the context of what Delaware had to offer, which broadly speaking was not much.

The Blue Hens were a good choice within the limited selection of SA options in the state. At least up until Mike Brey left, they were consistent contenders in whatever conference they were a part of. The only other collegiate choice available was the Hornets, which have had some success over the last few years, but being in the MEAC hurts their overall credibility. Otherwise, it's slim pickings.

Bethany Beach, unfortunately, was a rather weak choice. I'd never heard of it and Googling it showed me it was a beach like just about any other on the Atlantic seaboard. Just wasn't unique.

I gave "Constitutional Ratification" a high mark because of Delaware's standing as the first ratifier. However, the term itself is overly broad since the original 13 states can all make the same claim. If it was "First State", then I could give it an even better score because that gives Delaware's unique place in American history. Yes, Pennsylvania and New Jersey were not long following, but Delaware was still the first and no one else can take that from them.

I do agree about poultry. Too generic. Nothing against using "Blue Hens" twice, I don't think. Might've given a little more oomph.

Unfortunately, as noted, Delaware is a difficult state to score with because it just doesn't have the variation necessary (mainly due to lack of size). It's stuck as a satellite of Philadelphia culturally and historically (all local sports teams are across the line in PA, for example) and there just isn't an abundance of geography to distinguish it either in resources or in beauty.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Montana (Butter of 69): 16

Great Plains [AR] 2

There are a number of choices that would have scored a 3 for AR and one that could have possible scored a 4: Anaconda Copper, which was one of the largest and famous copper mines and boomtown (Butte).

I almost went with Copper, but I didn't think that anything would score highly... I was just kinda hoping for a 3 with it, and to avoid both a deduction and a possible low score from Yellowstone since most of it is not within Montana.... but I totally understand the decision there. I was more than happy with the overall score, obviously.

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

"Lewis, Clark" could also have worked since they probably covered more miles in Montana than any other eventual state.

Yup, thought about that as well, but thought that Little Bighorn would probably score a bit higher.

[WSUCougar]

Last call for Hawaii

[Poli]

Closing time...you don't have to go home but you can't stay here.

[WSUCougar]

Masked just goes out and gets Hawaii for a hefty $38 bid. Only Butter remains for grabbing a second state and scoring stage two.

Minnesota is now on the block.

[TazFTW]

[WSUCougar]

Last call for Minnesota

[Wolfpack]

Based on the proposition put forth by Wade that in spite of getting only 10 points for Delaware, he got good value for it by paying $13, I spent a little time figuring out who is really getting their money's worth on a dollar-per-point basis:

1) Butter of 69--$0.94/point ($15/16 points)
2) Masked--$1.00/point ($16/16 points)
3) wade moore--$1.30/point ($13/10 points)
4) TazFTW--$1.42/point ($17/12 points)
5) tarcone--$1.74/point ($33/19 points)
6) sachmo/JeeberD--$1.81/point ($20/11 points)
7) gstelmack--$2.06/point ($35/17 points)
8) radii/oliegirl--$2.09/point ($23/11 points)
9) anxiety--$2.40/point ($36/15 points)
10) path12--$2.41/point ($41/17 points)

Average: $1.72/point

Obviously, with a sample of one round, the players who chose to put up a big price state suffer compared to those who put up a low-bid state because the spending cap is much higher than the points cap for each player to start with. As money dwindles for each player, though, the ratios should start evening out.

At any rate, wade does have somewhat of a point in that he got decent value for a tough state, but the question for him will be how much value he can wring out of his big-bid state in Virginia.

Tarcone probably got an absolute steal with Texas as cheap as it was. He leads the pack overall and he didn't cripple his bank to do it.

Butter also did a great job with Montana and was the only player to actually "make money" in the sense that he spent less than a dollar a point (since the game is $100 to spend and best effort is 100 points). It will be interesting to see if that gives him an edge down the road.

Anyway, it's just something else to discuss while waiting for the next round to finish up.

[WSUCougar]

tarcone snares Minnesota ($17) as his third state.

Colorado is now up for bid.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

Based on the proposition put forth by Wade that in spite of getting only 10 points for Delaware, he got good value for it by paying $13, I spent a little time figuring out who is really getting their money's worth on a dollar-per-point basis:

1) Butter of 69--$0.94/point ($15/16 points)
2) Masked--$1.00/point ($16/16 points)
3) wade moore--$1.30/point ($13/10 points)
4) TazFTW--$1.42/point ($17/12 points)
5) tarcone--$1.74/point ($33/19 points)
6) sachmo/JeeberD--$1.81/point ($20/11 points)
7) gstelmack--$2.06/point ($35/17 points)
8) radii/oliegirl--$2.09/point ($23/11 points)
9) anxiety--$2.40/point ($36/15 points)
10) path12--$2.41/point ($41/17 points)

Average: $1.72/point

Obviously, with a sample of one round, the players who chose to put up a big price state suffer compared to those who put up a low-bid state because the spending cap is much higher than the points cap for each player to start with. As money dwindles for each player, though, the ratios should start evening out.

At any rate, wade does have somewhat of a point in that he got decent value for a tough state, but the question for him will be how much value he can wring out of his big-bid state in Virginia.

Tarcone probably got an absolute steal with Texas as cheap as it was. He leads the pack overall and he didn't cripple his bank to do it.

Butter also did a great job with Montana and was the only player to actually "make money" in the sense that he spent less than a dollar a point (since the game is $100 to spend and best effort is 100 points). It will be interesting to see if that gives him an edge down the road.

Anyway, it's just something else to discuss while waiting for the next round to finish up.

If I don't get good points for VA, I don't deserve to be playing this game... 27 years here I should know some good stuff ...

[WSUCougar]

bizzump

[WSUCougar]

last call for Colorado

[WSUCougar]

We had a tie $28 bid for Colorado, but as per the rules

Tie bids will be won by the earliest bid PM received, except in the event of passes, in which case the last bid PM received gets stuck with that state

gstelmack snags his 4th state.

New Hampshire is now on the block.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

gstelmack snags his 4th state.

Woohoo!

I bid $1 for New Hampshire

[Sublime 2]

Patiently awaiting how much the Nude Hampster goes for.