What happened to Hell Atlantic?

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

We need an Antmeister parody out of this.

We need the Flere "In Pictures" series.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

4. Folks agree that a name change is a spiffy idea. SkyDog agrees too, but for a slightly different reason. He gets a kick out of HA. Thinks he's a good diversion, and mostly harmless. A name change should get a nice little rise out of him (and in all likelihood he'd go ahead and change the name *back*).

I find it intersting that someone who is so involved in youths and the church gets a kick out of someone who claims another persons mother should have used a hanger to abort them.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by cartman

It is based both on various BB administration (vbulletin, phpbb, invision, etc.) and general computer admin experience. Whenever a name changes, the checksums, CRCs, tokens, or whatever security mechanism used changes. When you try to use the old name, the checks just do not match up. There are wide variations on how differing systems handle security, but the basic mechanisms are the same across all systems.

That being said, there are always bugs and glitches in systems, and behavior might deviate from what was expected. That is why I said "bordering on the impossible" and not just a flat out "impossible". But much closer to a certainty than Anthony/HA's version of events.

That's a nice laundry list of random security terms, but I'm even more skeptical now. The above screams of the same random hot air that a Best Buy employee blow at me when trying to convince me I need $140 HDMI cables.

I have a list of cookies from operation sports in my browser, and every one of them lists a numeric user id, not a name. I don't see Fidatelo anywhere. So if SkyDork changes my name to Fellatio, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the site had no reason to log me out or even recognize the change. Could it? Sure. But I don't think it does, and I don't see how you could so strongly word your original assertions ("There is not a way your screen login name can change, and you aren't automatically logged out of the system if you try to post.").

[gkb]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Ok, lets make this simple.

1. HA went off on Schmidty last week - in response to a post that was months old - going a bit too far. This led to him being boxed for a week.

2. A few folks off in our Land of Make Believe opine that this is standard HA, he'll just be gone for a week and come back continuing where he left off. He's done it before, he'll do it again.

3. It was explained that "HA isn't really a bad guy - he just likes to put on this character". Which many of us (though certainly not all of us) are tired of. So, I offer a different approach to the boxing. Why not change his screen name to Anthony, and see if he starts acting like an actual person, rather than this caricature?

4. Folks agree that a name change is a spiffy idea. SkyDog agrees too, but for a slightly different reason. He gets a kick out of HA. Thinks he's a good diversion, and mostly harmless. A name change should get a nice little rise out of him (and in all likelihood he'd go ahead and change the name *back*).

5. Anthony returns, a little perplexed. But overall, doesn't blow up. FOFC, in its usual custom, DOES get all bent out of shape (some are angry, most are just confused, some just are), saving the day and providing the train wreck that was hoped for.

Well, that explains things at least. I usually find HA mostly harmless, sometimes amusing, but that comment to Schmidty was truly crappy. I know he's posted other stuff that's just as bad and I know if I did the same I'd be banned. HA is part of FOFC lore though and I can see why he's not banned.

HA's stuff though is just a sideshow, to me anyway, of FOFC. The best parts of this board include EF27 offering good, solid advice when people need it. Or when EF27 is looking at a job opportunity and someone comes through with solid information about why he shouldn't take it. When people here ask for thoughts and prayers for something difficult going on in their lives, they get them. We have lawyers here that help people out and generally, you'll find solid advice on just about everything...from relationships to computers.

So I think this is a good forum with solid moderation. It's generally amusing and sometimes poignant. I remember some thread from awhile ago where several members discussed having lost their children. Shit like that matters...this is really just noise.

[rkmsuf]

I like how there's a committee trying to "fix" HA.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Why?

HA antics have been going on forever, HA "toys" with people all the time, often in an asshatish way.

But if Ben does it to him that means Ben is being a douchebag? What is so wrong with Ben having a little fun with HA, it's not like HA hasn't earned it. I think it's funny he is getting a taste of his own medicine.

And don't use the abuse of power excuse because we all know Ben has no problem abusing his power and making it clear it isn't a democracy.

Two wrongs make a right. Good point?

[Antmeister]

This really needs to be made into the movie. A very creative artist discovers The One True Dark Jedi and sends secret suggestions on punishing the actor. Actor loses his stage name and receives letter in his mailbox telling him he will be using his real name. The actor revolts and holds a piece of cardboard over his head that reads "Hell Atlantic" (see Norma Rae).

The Dark Council is reported to have fudged some decency laws. Ksyrup publicly denies any involvement with the identity switch. There are rumblings that a posse is forming, but the founding members are quickly and silently dispatched by a silent assassin who goes by the codename of sachmo71.

Random images pop up of violated hoagies, Buccaneer and JonInMiddleGA screaming for people to get off their lawn, Eaglesfan27 dropkicking TCY Junkie, Subby in neon spandex with a corsair and 3 shurikens, cartman riding a mutant javelina, and MikeVic trapped on the toilet as Kodos planetary takeover is taking place.

[BrianD]

Can we at least hope that all of the folks who are so upset at the HA schtick and frequently request the banning have the guy on ignore? I'm amazed at how many people complain about him always being the same yet still reading every post.

[Zelig]

It has suddenly dawned on me that I hate you all.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Zelig

It has suddenly dawned on me that I hate you all.

Hate leads to fear. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to name changes. Name changes lead to Pumpy wearing nothing but socks.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

That's a nice laundry list of random security terms, but I'm even more skeptical now. The above screams of the same random hot air that a Best Buy employee blow at me when trying to convince me I need $140 HDMI cables.

I have a list of cookies from operation sports in my browser, and every one of them lists a numeric user id, not a name. I don't see Fidatelo anywhere. So if SkyDork changes my name to Fellatio, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the site had no reason to log me out or even recognize the change. Could it? Sure. But I don't think it does, and I don't see how you could so strongly word your original assertions ("There is not a way your screen login name can change, and you aren't automatically logged out of the system if you try to post.").

Obviously for security reasons, a cookie isn't going to have your plaintext username and password in it. The number or alphanumeric string you see inside is usually a CRC or hash check that the server uses to figure out your username and/or password on the server side.

Since by the way you asked the question, I didn't get into the nitty gritty details of various security methods and implementations, and left it at a very general level. If you specifically would like to know more about cookies, here is a pretty good introductory FAQ on what they are, how they work, and what the data inside them means: http://www.cookiecentral.com/faq/

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Two wrongs make a right. Good point?

sometimes it sucks to be on the receiving end of someones BS

[Passacaglia]

This thread needs Moloko.

Change my face
But it won't erase
I changed my heart
When my soul changed hands
What if, when I find myself?
Made new plans.
I don't really like myself?
Underhand.
What if when I look inside?
Change my name.
I don't like much what I find?
But I remain the same.

Change my name I remain the same.
Change my name I remain the same.
Try again, another new beginning.

Change my course.
But I can't change my ways
D I V O R C E.
Will you count the days
What if, when I find myself?
Change my tune.
I don't really like myself?
But I stand on shifting sand.
What if when I look inside?
When I change my name.
My heart was changing hands.
Baby you'll never understand.

Change my name I remain the same.
Change my name I remain the same.
Try again, another new beginning.

If I, if I could just
Slip from the net
Try to forget
I hang my head
In regret
If I, if I could just
But it's too much
Slip from my skin
I try again
Another new beginning

Change my name I remain the same.
Change my name I remain the same.
Try again, another new beginning.

Change my name I remain the same.
Change my name I remain the same.
Try again, another new beginning.

Change my name I remain the same.
Change my name I remain the same.
Change my name I remain the same.
Change my name I remain the same.
Try again, another new beginning.

Change my name I remain the same.
Change my name I remain the same.
Change my name I remain the same.
I remain the same, I remain the same, I remain the same.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by cartman

Obviously for security reasons, a cookie isn't going to have your plaintext username and password in it. The number or alphanumeric string you see inside is usually a CRC or hash check that the server uses to figure out your username and/or password on the server side.

Since by the way you asked the question, I didn't get into the nitty gritty details of various security methods and implementations, and left it at a very general level. If you specifically would like to know more about cookies, here is a pretty good introductory FAQ on what they are, how they work, and what the data inside them means: http://www.cookiecentral.com/faq/

I had no idea you worked at Best Buy!

can you set aside a copy of Wii Fit for me. K.Thx.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by gkb

The best parts of this board include EF27 offering good, solid advice when people need it. Or when EF27 is looking at a job opportunity and someone comes through with solid information about why he shouldn't take it. When people here ask for thoughts and prayers for something difficult going on in their lives, they get them. We have lawyers here that help people out and generally, you'll find solid advice on just about everything...from relationships to computers.

sounds pretty boring to me.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

sounds pretty boring to me.

I think he's bucking for free therapy.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by cartman

Obviously for security reasons, a cookie isn't going to have your plaintext username and password in it. The number or alphanumeric string you see inside is usually a CRC or hash check that the server uses to figure out your username and/or password on the server side.

Since by the way you asked the question, I didn't get into the nitty gritty details of various security methods and implementations, and left it at a very general level. If you specifically would like to know more about cookies, here is a pretty good introductory FAQ on what they are, how they work, and what the data inside them means: http://www.cookiecentral.com/faq/

Here's my uneducated guess, let's watch this play out and see if the cookie master is correct or if my retarded self has the right of it:

I have a cookie, called "User Id". It has a value, 2436, that is the primary key (or *possibly* a hash of one) in some kind of User table. That table has a field called "username", likely also a unique key. Both are indexed, and you can look up one with the other. My cookie doesn't expire until June 2009, so if my username changes, it doesn't matter, because the cookie looks up my username based on my id value and then logs me in with the encrypted password that is in my other cookie (called "password").

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Lathum

sometimes it sucks to be on the receiving end of someones BS

I'm honestly confused by this response, I don't know how to take it.

[Passacaglia]

While we're shooting holes at cartman -- couldn't he have read his PM when it was emailed to him?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

That's a nice laundry list of random security terms, but I'm even more skeptical now. The above screams of the same random hot air that a Best Buy employee blow at me when trying to convince me I need $140 HDMI cables.

/

[MJ4H]

I repeat that I did not have to log back in to post after my username was changed.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

I repeat that I did not have to log back in to post after my username was changed.

I'm sorry, but cartman declared that as being unpossible.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Lathum

/

I'm not trying to be an asshole, but I honestly am stumped by what you are trying to get at. Are you saying I was spewing BS? If so, that's fine, I just want to get back on board the conversation train as I seem to have fallen off a while back (I will admit to being obtuse at times, you need to hit me over the head and insult my mom's vagina or something).

[Subby]

I think Lathum is saying that the punishment is completely with merit.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I'm not trying to be an asshole, but I honestly am stumped by what you are trying to get at. Are you saying I was spewing BS? If so, that's fine, I just want to get back on board the conversation train as I seem to have fallen off a while back (I will admit to being obtuse at times, you need to hit me over the head and insult my mom's vagina or something).

it was like my organ was playing in a cathedral

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Subby

I think Lathum is saying that the punishment is completely with merit.

That's what I understood as of my "two wrongs = right" post, but then I fell off with the BS stuff and the slash. Oh well, it's probably not a big deal.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

it was like my organ was playing in a cathedral

She did mention you seemed a little small down there. My sympathies.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Here's my uneducated guess, let's watch this play out and see if the cookie master is correct or if my retarded self has the right of it:

I have a cookie, called "User Id". It has a value, 2436, that is the primary key (or *possibly* a hash of one) in some kind of User table. That table has a field called "username", likely also a unique key. Both are indexed, and you can look up one with the other. My cookie doesn't expire until June 2009, so if my username changes, it doesn't matter, because the cookie looks up my username based on my id value and then logs me in with the encrypted password that is in my other cookie (called "password").

That is the way most login systems operate. There is a unique primary key, usually for simplicity sake it is an auto incrementing row number starting at 1 and counting up. So for example:

id	user	password
1	joe	dsakjfhsdkj	
2	bob	jdsfnsdkd
3	steve	mm11jds1

When you ask vbulletin to write a login cookie for you, and you are logged in as 'joe', it will look up your id (1), and create a hash of the username and a MD5 salt of the password, and these abstracted values are written to your cookie. So the next time you connect, the cookie contains the id (1), plus the hash of the username and the salted password. The system looks up this info, and if it matches, you are logged in. But if the info changed:

id	user	password
1	mary	dsakjfhsdkj	
2	bob	jdsfnsdkd
3	steve	mm11jds1

the next time the cookie is used, the id and password match, but the hash in the cookie would work out to 'joe', and the line in the table says it should be 'mary'.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Can we at least hope that all of the folks who are so upset at the HA schtick and frequently request the banning have the guy on ignore? I'm amazed at how many people complain about him always being the same yet still reading every post.

You can hope ... but you'd be kind of foolish to actually believe that's the case.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

She did mention you seemed a little small down there. My sympathies.

supaslam

[cartman]

But I do see now where he could have deduced the new name before receiving the PM. Since anyone could read the posts, there can't be that many users from Astoria, NY that are the president of the Dean Houston Fan Club.

[rkmsuf]

What about Dr. Sak? We ever figure out what happened to him?

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by cartman

That is the way most login systems operate. There is a unique primary key, usually for simplicity sake it is an auto incrementing row number starting at 1 and counting up. So for example:

id    user    password
1    joe    dsakjfhsdkj    
2    bob    jdsfnsdkd
3    steve    mm11jds1

When you ask vbulletin to write a login cookie for you, and you are logged in as 'joe', it will look up your id (1), and create a hash of the username and a MD5 salt of the password, and these abstracted values are written to your cookie. So the next time you connect, the cookie contains the id (1), plus the hash of the username and the salted password. The system looks up this info, and if it matches, you are logged in. But if the info changed:

id    user    password
1    mary    dsakjfhsdkj    
2    bob    jdsfnsdkd
3    steve    mm11jds1

the next time the cookie is used, the id and password match, but the hash in the cookie would work out to 'joe', and the line in the table says it should be 'mary'.

The example you describe seems like it could certainly be a valid security implementation. But you seem to be assuming that there is no way it could not be the case. Yet evidence throughout the thread points to you being wrong. I find it very surprising that someone that seems to actually have at least a small clue about this stuff would make such brash statements. It has been my experience that assuming something CAN NOT be done is a bad assumption to make, especially when you don't have the keys to the specific system at hand.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

The example you describe seems like it could certainly be a valid security implementation. But you seem to be assuming that there is no way it could not be the case. Yet evidence throughout the thread points to you being wrong. I find it very surprising that someone that seems to actually have at least a small clue about this stuff would make such brash statements. It has been my experience that assuming something CAN NOT be done is a bad assumption to make, especially when you don't have the keys to the specific system at hand.

Fair enough. You have your point of view, and I have mine.

[DanGarion]

I'd still like to point out that someone posted a NSFW video in this thread and everyone appears to be ignoring that...

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by cartman

Fair enough. You have your point of view, and I have mine.

I'm just curious how you are writing off the following items:

1) MJ4H has repeatedly stated he did not have to re-login after his name changed; and
2) The cookies for OS are not structured in the manner you are indicating (there is a separate cookie for the username and password, and neither of them contain a hash value of any kind).

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by dangarion

I'd still like to point out that someone posted a NSFW video in this thread and everyone appears to be ignoring that...

WOULDN'T THAT BE A MOD'S JOB?

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by dangarion

I'd still like to point out that someone posted a NSFW video in this thread and everyone appears to be ignoring that...

Aren't there tonnes of NSFW videos in the "What are you YouTubing of Late?" thread?

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Antmeister

This really needs to be made into the movie. A very creative artist discovers The One True Dark Jedi and sends secret suggestions on punishing the actor. Actor loses his stage name and receives letter in his mailbox telling him he will be using his real name. The actor revolts and holds a piece of cardboard over his head that reads "Hell Atlantic" (see Norma Rae).

The Dark Council is reported to have fudged some decency laws. Ksyrup publicly denies any involvement with the identity switch. There are rumblings that a posse is forming, but the founding members are quickly and silently dispatched by a silent assassin who goes by the codename of sachmo71.

Random images pop up of violated hoagies, Buccaneer and JonInMiddleGA screaming for people to get off their lawn, Eaglesfan27 dropkicking TCY Junkie, Subby in neon spandex with a corsair and 3 shurikens, cartman riding a mutant javelina, and MikeVic trapped on the toilet as Kodos planetary takeover is taking place.

Don't let this be lost in the posts that followed!!

[MJ4H]

What post # is the nsfw video? I totally missed that. Is it the so you think you can dance video? Doesnt look nsfw to me, but I didn't watch it all.

[DanGarion]

I have confirmed with my personal copy of vB that if a user is logged in, and then the admin changes their name, and the user comes back to the site, they REMAIN logged in!

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

That's what I understood as of my "two wrongs = right" post, but then I fell off with the BS stuff and the slash. Oh well, it's probably not a big deal.

one has nothing to do with the other.

Subby's assesment was correct.

As for the quote I was poking fun at Cartman about your Best Buy comment. Looking back I wasn't very clear

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

WOULDN'T THAT BE A MOD'S JOB?

Exactly they don't appear to be doing their job...

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by dangarion

Exactly they don't appear to be doing their job...

We need the HA Action Committee to take the baton here.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by dangarion

I have confirmed with my personal copy of vB that if a user is logged in, and then the admin changes their name, and the user comes back to the site, they REMAIN logged in!

unpossible!

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Lathum

one has nothing to do with the other.

Subby's assesment was correct.

As for the quote I was poking fun at Cartman about your Best Buy comment. Looking back I wasn't very clear

Thank you for clearing things up.

We cool?

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

What post # is the nsfw video? I totally missed that. Is it the so you think you can dance video? Doesnt look nsfw to me, but I didn't watch it all.

It's not here anymore, but it was for a bit. But if anyone other person was to do that they would have been suspended.... (speaking from experience).

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

unpossible!

If you need proof I can set you up to see it for yourself....

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by dangarion

I'd still like to point out that someone posted a NSFW video in this thread and everyone appears to be ignoring that...

don't be such a tattletail, what are you, like 5?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Thank you for clearing things up.

We cool?

word