Have you ever cheated on a spouse/long-term other?

[Travis]

I'd be curious to know how differently the children react to their biological parent's new boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife (if split homes) compared to that dynamics of an open relationship and the presense of other regular figures in their lives. Obviously the situation involving two sets of parents (or any combinations thereof) can work/be a nurturing environment, but it seems like the odds of being raised by just two central people from birth to adulthood keeps becoming more and more rare anyway.

[Fidatelo]

How do you explain that situation to a kid anyways? "Mommies and daddies have sex to make babies. Daddies and girlfriends and mommies and boyfriends have sex because it feels good and babymaking gets boring. Mommies and daddy's girlfriends have sex because it feels good and looks even better."

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

How do you explain that situation to a kid anyways? "Mommies and daddies have sex to make babies. Daddies and girlfriends and mommies and boyfriends have sex because it feels good and babymaking gets boring. Mommies and daddy's girlfriends have sex because it feels good and looks even better."

This cracked me up, no offense, but it reads hilarious.

On the serious side though, it comes down to how old the kids are honestly. Ours are 3 yrs and 19 months old, so they really don't know anything is different at this age. As they get older then you might see some issues of quesitoning or confusion come along depending on how long your other relationships last.

This is my second girlfriend since Telle and I moved to a polyamorous relatoinship. The first one lasted 5 years or so. I am not a short term relationship kind o guy. When I fall in love its not the fleeting kind. And I've never been the type to fall 'out' of love.

I still love my ex wife, lygin cheating scaming conniving nasty bitch that she was. I despise what she was and did during our marriage, but I still love her in some way. We spent 7 years together. You never really lose that, or at least I don't.

Anyway, just wanted to drop that note in. When it comes to kids the length of relationships and their roles within the family are always going to be big points to cover and the older the kids are the harder it may become. It also depends on wether the children are used to such a situation. I hope that ours growing up with the lifestyle will have an easier time understanding and relating to the people in Telle and I's lives.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by RendeR

This cracked me up, no offense, but it reads hilarious.

None taken, it was meant to be funny

[CamEdwards]

I can't believe I'm feeding this thread at this point, but I have to ask.... what's up with Telle? Has she had any boyfriends during this time? And is it truly "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" with you?

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Nope. Not really interested in it, at all, to the point that I've never even been in a situation where I've been tempted or given anyone the impression I was remotely interested.

Basically, I've got my hands full understanding the woman with me now, and I have absolutely no interest in trying to figure out another one.

+1

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Telle

And for what it's worth, I don't have the slightest idea how a 4-5 parent household would work either. And I don't think it would be the ideal for the vast majority of people. But I don't discount the idea that somebody, somewhere, could make it work.. and for those unique individuals, it could be a very good thing.

You guys have had to been old enough to experience the communes, as I had in the early 70s. (note: there were many types of communes)

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by Telle

Why do you assume there's a lack of commitment?

And for RendeR and I.. let's see.. we've been a couple for 11 years now, had some variation of an open relationship for about six or seven years I think, and been married for four and a half years.. and we have every intention of remaining married "until one of us is dead"

Everyone has admirable intentions, of course. However, if you do stay together, then you would be the first I've known in a relationship like that to do so.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Against my better judgment, I'm going to respond to this. I couldn't care less what consenting adults do in their own homes, until kids are involved. I strongly believe all parents have a responsibility to put their children #1, and I don't think enough do so. I think an open relationship is unhealthy for children who absorb an amazing amount of subtle (and not so subtle) things around them, no matter how discreet the adults around them think they are being.

I understand that completely, and you are in a unique position(amongst the members of the board here) of having the education and professional experience to truly know and understand the studies/research that have been done and the experience you have had in your career when it comes to the effect that alternative relationships have on children involved. I almost mentioned your comments as an exception b/c of your profession but decided to just make the sweeping generalization instead

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Against my better judgment, I'm going to respond to this. I couldn't care less what consenting adults do in their own homes, until kids are involved. I strongly believe all parents have a responsibility to put their children #1, and I don't think enough do so. I think an open relationship is unhealthy for children who absorb an amazing amount of subtle (and not so subtle) things around them, no matter how discreet the adults around them think they are being.

I don't disagree with you that kids do and will pick up on everything in their family's life. Which is why we don't hide any of it from the kids. They know our significant others well and we wouldn't have that any other way.

We always put the kids first, and I believe that the people who are trying so hard to be "discreet" are also trying to hide their situation out of some self felt shame or guilt. THAT is what I think kids would be harmed by.

When children are lied to, they know it and they get confused and conflicted. I don't outright lie to my children. Sure I don't give a 3 yr old details she doesn't need at that age, but when Liz is over or Telle's BF is around we don't hide our affection either. THey know that we love those people and that those people love us and them as well.

So as I've told other people, its not for everyone, but its not wrong or damaging to anyone either when things are done right and the relationships are truly warm, loving family style relationships.

Maybe we're well beyond what a typical "open" relationship is, because we don't move from affair to affair. We have real, long term relationships. and these people become members of our family.

So while I understand your PoV, I dont believe you can make a case for it to be a blanket covering statement. There are always good sides and bad sides to these things.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I'm masturbating and crying right now, as a matter of fact.

*nods head* Tears do make the best lubricant.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Why do you say this? Or are you joking? I haven't been the slightest bit uncomfortable. I know that Telle and I are happy and will be together as she says, till one of us is dead, and that will be from old age. I have no issues with such a topic, in fact I welcome questions.

Yeah, I didn't get the feeling that YOU were uncomfortable.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Yeah, I didn't get the feeling that YOU were uncomfortable.

INDEED.

[Fidatelo]

Did this thread just go somewhere else? Like the backseat of a Volkswagon? I'm confused...

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

*nods head* Tears do make the best lubricant.

What? Should I be using lubricant?

[cuervo72]

Real men go dry.

[Kodos]

It seems like someone would have to have a low sense of self-worth to get involved with someone in an open marriage.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Kodos

It seems like someone would have to have a low sense of self-worth to get involved with someone in an open marriage.

Why? I'm interested in your PoV here. I actually see it as more of a 'safe' move for someone to make. They aren't threatened by the whole "what does this person really want from our relationship' thing.

EX: Bob is married with a family and is Poly, he meets jane, Jane is very attracted to bob and they become friends and then more intense feelings develop. Jane isn't looking to settle down anytime soon. This would seem to be the perfect relationship for Jane at this point in her life?

See what I mean there? You may well be right and some people could simply be settling for a secondary relationship position out of low self esteem. But I don't think they'd get much out of it that way. it doesn't really benefit them.

Maybe I'm not seeing all the possibilities also. Great input though Kodos, thanks for popping in with this!

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

What? Should I be using lubricant?

Lube is always beneficial

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Real men go dry.

And real men chafe, no thank you, Lube Please....

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I don't disagree with you that kids do and will pick up on everything in their family's life. Which is why we don't hide any of it from the kids. They know our significant others well and we wouldn't have that any other way.

We always put the kids first, and I believe that the people who are trying so hard to be "discreet" are also trying to hide their situation out of some self felt shame or guilt. THAT is what I think kids would be harmed by.

When children are lied to, they know it and they get confused and conflicted. I don't outright lie to my children. Sure I don't give a 3 yr old details she doesn't need at that age, but when Liz is over or Telle's BF is around we don't hide our affection either. THey know that we love those people and that those people love us and them as well.

So as I've told other people, its not for everyone, but its not wrong or damaging to anyone either when things are done right and the relationships are truly warm, loving family style relationships.

Maybe we're well beyond what a typical "open" relationship is, because we don't move from affair to affair. We have real, long term relationships. and these people become members of our family.

So while I understand your PoV, I dont believe you can make a case for it to be a blanket covering statement. There are always good sides and bad sides to these things.

Oh, dear. I can honestly say I didn't see this coming when I started this topic. I think a moment of stunned silence is in order.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Lube is always beneficial



And real men chafe, no thank you, Lube Please....

As long as you're done in under a couple hours, you're fine.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Why? I'm interested in your PoV here. I actually see it as more of a 'safe' move for someone to make. They aren't threatened by the whole "what does this person really want from our relationship' thing.

EX: Bob is married with a family and is Poly, he meets jane, Jane is very attracted to bob and they become friends and then more intense feelings develop. Jane isn't looking to settle down anytime soon. This would seem to be the perfect relationship for Jane at this point in her life?

See what I mean there? You may well be right and some people could simply be settling for a secondary relationship position out of low self esteem. But I don't think they'd get much out of it that way. it doesn't really benefit them.

Maybe I'm not seeing all the possibilities also. Great input though Kodos, thanks for popping in with this!

Here's another interesting story...

Bob and Maggie date for a couple of years and then decide to live together. They live together a couple of years and then when Maggie ends up pregnant, they decide to get married. Now, I don't know about Maggie's, but during the time they are living together, I know Bob has at least one affair. Maggie finds out, and is ready to leave him, but then she finds out she is pregnant and Bob proposes. Suddenly, all is forgiven and they proceed into holy matrimony.

Six months later they have their kid. About a year after that, Bob and Maggie decide monogamy is boring. They hook up with a social group that likes to swap spouses.

Ultimately they become friends with another couple, Sam and Louise and after a while they become exclusive, only swapping with each other. Well, Sam decides swinging isn't for him -- and tells Louise it's time to stop. But Louise likes her time with Bob, and continues to see him without Sam's knowledge. This causes some friction between Bob and Maggie, because Maggie feels like Louise is now in "cheating" territory. Bob says it isn't really because Louise is a good friend and Sam is being unreasonable. Sam finds out that Louise is still swinging and less than a month later...marriage over. Naturally, Bob wants to console Louise, so they continue to hook up on a regular basis. At this time, Maggie isn't seeing anyone else.

Now, Bob has a co-worker, Dave -- who he absolutely can't stand. Dave is on the fast track at Bob's company, and Bob feels Dave is being given favorable treatment over him. Well at an office party, Maggie meets Dave -- and whamo -- instant attraction. They begin sleeping together. Maggie learns Bob doesn't like Dave, so although he knows she is seeing someone else, Bob doesn't know it is Dave. One night, Maggie comes home and finds Bob with Louise. She's pissed because Bob had promised he would cut down on the number of times he and Louise get together, so she tells Bob her current extra-curricular thing is with Dave. Bob is furious. Dave??? That bastard??? At least Louise is a mutual friend. Bob tells Maggie she can't be with Dave. Maggie laughs in his face. Finally, Maggie agrees to stop seeing Dave if Bob stops seeing Louise. Neither stops...both are still seeing their significant others...now on the sly.

A short time later, each finds out that the other is continuing to see their lovers...suddenly, marriage in trouble. Counseling.

Meanwhile, Dave gets big promotion but has to move halfway across the country. Maggie decides that she likes being with Dave more than Bob. She takes their daughter and goes with Dave. After a year of living apart, Bob and Maggie mutually decide that their marriage is over. They share custody of their daughter.

Ultimately, Bob marries Louise, for a couple of years, then, they too split.

Flash forward to present day. Bob and Maggie's 14 year-old daughter starts sleeping with her boyfriend. Bob tries to lay down the law, saying that she is too young to have sex, and she basically tells him to f*ck off. He's a hypocrite and he has no right to dictate how she should live. Unfortunately, she ends up pregnant at 15 and has to drop out of school.

Bob starts to think maybe his lifestyle isn't so great after all.

[Travis]

So is it safe to say yet that any sort of relationship is prone to falling apart/messing up a child if those involved aren't honest with their partner(s) and themselves? Going on the story above, seems like the least of the worries was the openess of the relationship, most of the pitfalls are common enough in (supposedly) exclusive relationships, never mind the conversation had with the daughter in the last paragraph.

[RendeR]

SFL:

Excellent story, It points out some of the most HUGE issues involved in the whole thing.

Communication: They weren't very god at it, they didn't make sure everyone understood where they were at and what they were feeling all along the way.

Trust: They were lying to one another (whichever combinations) Honesty is crucial, I cannot stress that enough.

Respect for your partners: They really display none in your story.

Honesty: Umm yeah =)

I will never try and tell you that my lifestyle is better than any other lifestyle. Every single person is raised, thinks and believes different things. So different lifestyles will fit different people much better.

Honestly, the failure of the people in your story to truly embrace any of the 4 items I listed doomed their relationships pretty much from the beginning. And sadly that happens far too often in any relationship, monogamous or polyamorous or swinger or open marriage..whatever the label.

People have to be mature and secure enough in their initial relationship before anything outside that relationship can or will ever work for them.

I have to agree with Bob, the lifestyle really isn't for him, he chose...pooorly...

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Travis

So is it safe to say yet that any sort of relationship is prone to falling apart/messing up a child if those involved aren't honest with their partner(s) and themselves? Going on the story above, seems like the least of the worries was the openess of the relationship, most of the pitfalls are common enough in (supposedly) exclusive relationships, never mind the conversation had with the daughter in the last paragraph.

I ignored the daughter bit on purpose, it has absolutely nothing to do with their relationship issues and everything to do with not having a solid parent-daughter relationship in place.

Pregnant teenagers happen in the best and worst scenarios.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Oh, dear. I can honestly say I didn't see this coming when I started this topic. I think a moment of stunned silence is in order.

What? you expected the typical "I'd hit it" lines from everyone? C'mon we're far more original than that around here

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by Travis

So is it safe to say yet that any sort of relationship is prone to falling apart/messing up a child if those involved aren't honest with their partner(s) and themselves? Going on the story above, seems like the least of the worries was the openess of the relationship, most of the pitfalls are common enough in (supposedly) exclusive relationships, never mind the conversation had with the daughter in the last paragraph.

From the daughter's viewpoint, I think it was more of a "hey, you and mom weren't virgins when you got married. You sleep with other people you meet. Who are you to tell me I can't have sex with someone I really care about."

From that standpoint, she's right. Bob doesn't have a lot of ...er... moral authority. Unfortunately, she wasn't looking at the bigger picture of messing up her life with an unwanted pregnancy.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

From that standpoint, she's right. Bob doesn't have a lot of ...er... moral authority.

On the other hand:

"Yeah, and look how we turned out" says Bob.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

From the daughter's viewpoint, I think it was more of a "hey, you and mom weren't virgins when you got married. You sleep with other people you meet. Who are you to tell me I can't have sex with someone I really care about."

From that standpoint, she's right. Bob doesn't have a lot of ...er... moral authority. Unfortunately, she wasn't looking at the bigger picture of messing up her life with an unwanted pregnancy.

There is some truth in that, but you do realize that this holds true for ALL relationship types, not just open ones, when people cheat, they cheat and the kids figure that out. Can you see the difference between what that story shows as a dysfunctional marriage and extra-maritel relationships and what would be considered a normal marriage or relatoinship?

The daughter's issues with the parents from the story given here are far beyond anything to do with the complete mess they made of their marriage. She doesn't respect her parents and that comes from the parent/child relationship being badly handled at its core.

Does that make sense?

[path12]

Originally Posted by RendeR

What? you expected the typical "I'd hit it" lines from everyone? C'mon we're far more original than that around here

How you doin?

[path12]

Originally Posted by RendeR

SFL:

Excellent story, It points out some of the most HUGE issues involved in the whole thing.

Yeah, but it's also taking one example and trying to say that would happen in every instance -- at least that's how it reads to me.

I know plenty of fucked up kids with two parents who aren't divorced. I can't infer from that all kids with non-divorced two parent households are at a disadvantage.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by path12

Yeah, but it's also taking one example and trying to say that would happen in every instance -- at least that's how it reads to me.

I know plenty of fucked up kids with two parents who aren't divorced. I can't infer from that all kids with non-divorced two parent households are at a disadvantage.

You've got a point there.

[cuervo72]

Damn SFL, that was a story worthy of Flasch.

[Crim]

Agreed, that was quite a yarn, SFL.

[Critch]

It needed some Maggie/Louise action.