The Office Season 4

[mauchow]

That's what she.......

[mauchow]

I thought the whole Kevin thing was absolutely hilarious.

[mauchow]

Creed's moment on camera... CLASSIC. "I should have written it down on a piece of paper." "Qua-Quamity Sauvice!"(or whatever it was he said) Holy shit!

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

I thought the whole Kevin thing was absolutely hilarious.

That part was really well written. I wonder if that was Toby.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

I thought the whole Kevin thing was absolutely hilarious.

That made the entire episode for me.

I thought that was an excellent finale. A little bit of a bummer about Pam and Jim, but nothing that cannot be played out next year. They opened the door for the reported sequel to go a number of different ways (Toby, Pam, Jan, Jim, Ryan, or one or some combo of Dwight/Angela/Andy).

[Raiders Army]

Yes, I believe the sequel will be called The Office: Season 5.

[Crapshoot]

I loved it - best episode of the season.

[RainMaker]

I liked the episode but really didn't like the ending. The whole angst with their relationship has just gotten so played out. The proposal has already dragged on half a season and I don't really consider it to be an interesting storyline. Just get it over with, deliver the goods. I think the Jim character sucks since it's almost exclusively tied into Pam now.

I'm a fan of Amy Ryan but not sure how she'll fit into this role. The cast definitely needed some new blood, but I don't know what direction her character will go. With Ryan and Toby potentially gone, there really isn't anyone left for Michael to do battle with. His interactions with Toby are some of the best parts of the show.

By far the funniest part of the season finale for me was the fact Phyllis sends Kevin to get some barbeque sauce and he comes out with a shopping cart full of stuff. Almost missed it but that was f'in hilarious.

[Raiders Army]

"She is the best thing that's happened to the office since World War II!"

Anyhow, did anyone think that she was playing Michael? Like she's the type of person who sleeps with the boss?

[BishopMVP]

It took me almost the whole episode to place her. I kept thinking through comedies before realizing it was Beadie from The Wire.

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

It took me almost the whole episode to place her. I kept thinking through comedies before realizing it was Beadie from The Wire.

Amy Ryan also played the mother in "Gone Baby Gone," which I just watched Wednesday night.

[watravaler]

Hopefully the actors that play Pam and Jim move on to bigger things...

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

Creed's moment on camera... CLASSIC. "I should have written it down on a piece of paper." "Qua-Quamity Sauvice!"(or whatever it was he said) Holy shit!

"What is wrong with this woman? She's asking about stuff that's nobody's business! What do I do. Really, what do I do here? I should have written it down. Qua...Quabidy Assuance. No, but I'm getting close."

Funniest part in the episode, Creed continues to be the best part of the show.

[ISiddiqui]

Pretty good episode. Though I will say, I usually do like Jim's pranks, but the one in the beginning of the show (messing with Dwight's phone) was just freaking MEAN. I didn't crack a smile. What an ass.

But Jim has always had that streak in him. The Kevin "slow" thing was utterly histerical and how he thought that meant the new HR person was going to sleep with him (WTF Michael, she was asking you out and you go back to Jan?! TO JAN?!! But I guess that's Michael... had someone who really understood him and he goes to... want a kid mode... then again, that could be the new PB&J). "That's what she... " She even makes Michael a more mature person (*shakes head*).

Phyllis loving the power was pretty amusing as well. Jim and Pam... well, I knew something would mess it up (or it would have been a cliffhanger, but they couldn't do that now that you can see Pam really, really wants it... but now she's going to NYC for 3 months.. hmmm).

Ryan getting busted was great, as was Jim's call right afterwards. About time he got canned... this may open up the corporate job for Jim.

Creed's forgetting what he did was awesome! "Asking too many questions", LOL.

Poor Toby, though at least we know that Pam thought he was pretty cute.

And HOLY CRAP... Andy is screwed... Angela still wants Dwight and now they've been caught by Phyllis (and the cameras). Wonder what Phyllis gets to keep this quiet.

[Raiders Army]

I really don't understand how you think Jim's an ass for pranking Dwight, but Dwight telling the new HR person that Kevin is retarded is hysterical.

Many times over, we have seen that Dwight deserves what he gets, yet the new HR person didn't deserve what she got (raccoon in the car, telling her Kevin is slow).

I think you're letting your personal feelings about Jim and Pam's relationship affect what you think is funny.

On a side note, personally I think Jim's an ass for breaking up Pam and Roy. To kiss her when she's engaged is pretty fucking low.

[OldGiants]

Holly saying "I learned that in yoga," and Michael talking like Yoda had my wife snorting out her wine.

I loved Dwight nailing Angela at the end. I really can't stand the Andy character, how he is clueless in a selfish, mean spirited way. Him jumping in and stealing a march on Jim was pure Andy and I really loathed him for that. Dwight can be mean, but he has his brother put a raccoon in Holly's car, an outlandish moment.

I can't see Andy being a spinoff, the character is too off-putting for me.

[Barkeep49]

I thought this was a great, great episode.

My prediction is that Toby gets Ryan's job. It lets Toby stay in the picture as a source of conflict.

But I do admire the way the writers really set it up so that the spinoff could be any of half a dozen characters.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I really don't understand how you think Jim's an ass for pranking Dwight, but Dwight telling the new HR person that Kevin is retarded is hysterical.

Many times over, we have seen that Dwight deserves what he gets, yet the new HR person didn't deserve what she got (raccoon in the car, telling her Kevin is slow).

I think you're letting your personal feelings about Jim and Pam's relationship affect what you think is funny.

On a side note, personally I think Jim's an ass for breaking up Pam and Roy. To kiss her when she's engaged is pretty fucking low.

Dwight is an ass too. It wasn't him telling the HR person that Kevin was slow, but Kevin's actions and the HR person's reaction to him that were hysterical ("that's a button"). And besides, the ONLY reason Dwight was doing that is because Michael brought up the whole idea of hazing to begin with and he was just trying to please him.

But just because someone is an ass doesn't mean he deserves ass things done to him.

And I don't think it really has anything to do with Jim and Pam's relationship at all. For a while now I've had the opinion that Jim is really just an ass. Just because he does all his crap to Dwight doesn't make it right. And something like messing up your phone forwarding, potentially screwing with a sale, telling his mother that he's married and then hanging up... that's stuff you just don't do, regardless of who it is being done to.

[Danny]

Jim messing with Dwight has always been one of the funniest parts of the show. Sometimes in sitcoms, even good hearted characters can be jerks for comedic purposes

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Dwight is an ass too. It wasn't him telling the HR person that Kevin was slow, but Kevin's actions and the HR person's reaction to him that were hysterical ("that's a button"). And besides, the ONLY reason Dwight was doing that is because Michael brought up the whole idea of hazing to begin with and he was just trying to please him.

Slightly untrue. Dwight seems to take a perverse pleasure in using power to discipline/outright rule over people. This is no different.

But just because someone is an ass doesn't mean he deserves ass things done to him.

True.

And I don't think it really has anything to do with Jim and Pam's relationship at all. For a while now I've had the opinion that Jim is really just an ass. Just because he does all his crap to Dwight doesn't make it right. And something like messing up your phone forwarding, potentially screwing with a sale, telling his mother that he's married and then hanging up... that's stuff you just don't do, regardless of who it is being done to.

Really, it's a comedy with dramatic elements. I look at the phone stuff the same way I look at Creed not knowing his job. Both are unrealistic and done for comedy purposes.

That being said, I agree that Jim is just an ass...but do you think that's intentional? I'm thinking that it may be since Michael is an ass (with a heart of gold, when you get down to it) and they've been trying to set up Jim as a future Michael. He messed up the birthday parties and he didn't let the guard know they were working late. Maybe the writers are trying to set him up that way.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Slightly untrue. Dwight seems to take a perverse pleasure in using power to discipline/outright rule over people. This is no different.

While that is true, I don't think Dwight even thought of hazing until Michael mentioned it. And if Michael said she's great at the onset, Dwight wouldn't have done anything to her.

Really, it's a comedy with dramatic elements. I look at the phone stuff the same way I look at Creed not knowing his job. Both are unrealistic and done for comedy purposes.

That being said, I agree that Jim is just an ass...but do you think that's intentional? I'm thinking that it may be since Michael is an ass (with a heart of gold, when you get down to it) and they've been trying to set up Jim as a future Michael. He messed up the birthday parties and he didn't let the guard know they were working late. Maybe the writers are trying to set him up that way.

Unrealistic or not, it is part of the characterization. I do think they are trying to set up the Jim is like a future Michael (ie, this is the way Michael was before he became boss... only Jim is much more socially aware), but on the other hand, I think its part of Jim's character. Jim reminds of the "cool kid" in high school. He always acts like he doesn't care and cuts down all sorts of people, and even if it someone who may "deserve it", it's still cruel and it isn't just to cut down someone who is an ass, but for his own amusement.

I think the writers are putting in the subtle aspect to the character. Basically, Jim isn't a perfect guy, and part of it is that he messes up as boss, but the other is that he is kind of a jerk.

[Raiders Army]

Going back to the Dwight/Jim thing....if you had never seen an episdode, would you have thought the intro was funny?

[NoMyths]

It's absurdist comedy. Things are supposed to be exaggerated.

[Jim G.]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

And I don't think it really has anything to do with Jim and Pam's relationship at all. For a while now I've had the opinion that Jim is really just an ass. Just because he does all his crap to Dwight doesn't make it right. And something like messing up your phone forwarding, potentially screwing with a sale, telling his mother that he's married and then hanging up... that's stuff you just don't do, regardless of who it is being done to.

With regard to the sales aspect, the point they're trying to make is that selling paper is as mundane an office job as corporate America has to offer. I think they've lost that to a certain extent this season with certain plot lines, but the general metaphor of requiring a full staff to sell something blank and bland that everyone needs and everyone understands holds true.

They made fun of that in the previous episode, when Michael sent Pam 20 miles to get a piece of their paper for the demo at career day. But the kids didn't think of selling paper as a career.

The implication is that most people who work there don't take it very seriously. Then they can get comedic value from the small number of people who do take the job too seriously (Dwight and Angela, and their passion for each other, Michael and his turning a non-career into a career).

But, in that scene (which I didn't think worked as well as other prank scenes in the past), I think Pam was the one making all the calls. Jim was talking far too quickly.

As for the meanness of it, Dwight was intended (as Gareth was in the British original) to be a jerk, to be a fairly one-dimensional character who gives as good as he gets. But Rainn Wilson has proven so talented and popular that the producers felt they had to greatly expand his role. So pranks like that now seem a little awkward.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Going back to the Dwight/Jim thing....if you had never seen an episdode, would you have thought the intro was funny?

No. It was insanely cruel. If I hadn't seen an episode, I would have really disliked Jim and Pam for doing that. That's just one thing you just don't do to someone (screw with their phone and potentially mess up business for them and personal relationships... ie, telling mother that he's married and hanging up).

Some of the other pranks are mean, but not so much, so that they still retain their humor. The nickles in the phone thing was funny, even though that was mean (it was just on the right side of mean though). The fax from the future is funny (also a bit mean though).

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Jim G.

But, in that scene (which I didn't think worked as well as other prank scenes in the past), I think Pam was the one making all the calls. Jim was talking far too quickly.

She made one call and I think Dwight would have realized if the sales call and the mother call were made by her (as he noticed her making the 2nd of the three calls).

As for the meanness of it, Dwight was intended (as Gareth was in the British original) to be a jerk, to be a fairly one-dimensional character who gives as good as he gets. But Rainn Wilson has proven so talented and popular that the producers felt they had to greatly expand his role. So pranks like that now seem a little awkward.

I think that's probably right. Gareth did give as good as he got, so it was kind of like a prank war (all's fair if they fight back type of thing). But Dwight really doesn't. He doesn't like Jim, but he hasn't tried to take him down in a really long time. If Dwight was pranking Jim, maybe its a bit more understandable (though I still think it was low, especially if it wasn't all Pam), but that would make Jim lose the "cool guy in high school" vibe.

[Jim G.]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

She made one call and I think Dwight would have realized if the sales call and the mother call were made by her (as he noticed her making the 2nd of the three calls).

Watch the staging of the scene.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/20137/the-office-goodbye-toby

(incredible site, by the way, I've "rediscovered" a couple of old favorites).

First call, Dwight isn't even looking in Pam's direction. How many sales calls end in 15 seconds, with the salesman not even repeating the order, confirming the address or even looking up the account? If it was Dwight's customer, there's just no way that could happen.

Second call, Dwight is still oblivious until Pam says something. She's talking loud enough that it's clear she's trying to get his attention without making eye contact.

Third call, Dwight is so flustered he isn't looking at Pam at all, because he bought into the second call. Pam could have just dialed the number and put down the phone. Jim doesn't really pause long enough for "Dwight's parents" to identify themselves. When a parent calls, you know the voice well enough that they rarely say more than "hi." Jim would have said "hi" or "hi, who is this" in response if it were a real call. Also, no one is that quick, to prepare a bit like that on the spur of the moment.

All three calls had to be planned with Pam in advance.

[Comey]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I thought this was a great, great episode.

My prediction is that Toby gets Ryan's job. It lets Toby stay in the picture as a source of conflict.

But I do admire the way the writers really set it up so that the spinoff could be any of half a dozen characters.

Paul Lieberstein said in the post-show Q&A he took that he never really wanted to be on the show, and that it was easy to write himself out. He's also just focusing on writing the show now, which is what he wanted to do in the first place.

So, I wouldn't bet on Toby getting that job. It *does* open the door for Jim, though. That's if Ryan doesn't beat the fraud charge or somehow ends back up as the DM. If he does...Jim's gonna have hell to pay.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Going back to the Dwight/Jim thing....if you had never seen an episdode, would you have thought the intro was funny?

stop being a wuss

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

stop being a wuss

[/wuss].

[Mantle2600]

I thought it was a great episode, and me and my girl were busting up laughing at the prank in the beginning.

[Toddzilla]

I think this needs more overblown, pseudo-intellectual analysis - someone call James Lipton to chime in.

[Raiders Army]

Hey, I'm a wuss because I thought Jim pranking Dwight was funny.

[RainMaker]

I still don't think they have a clue who they're going to put in the spin-off. There had been rumors that they hadn't figured it out yet as of a few weeks ago.

I still don't think you can take out any of the main characters and still have a succesful show.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Jim G.

Watch the staging of the scene.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/20137/the-office-goodbye-toby

(incredible site, by the way, I've "rediscovered" a couple of old favorites).

First call, Dwight isn't even looking in Pam's direction. How many sales calls end in 15 seconds, with the salesman not even repeating the order, confirming the address or even looking up the account? If it was Dwight's customer, there's just no way that could happen.

Second call, Dwight is still oblivious until Pam says something. She's talking loud enough that it's clear she's trying to get his attention without making eye contact.

Third call, Dwight is so flustered he isn't looking at Pam at all, because he bought into the second call. Pam could have just dialed the number and put down the phone. Jim doesn't really pause long enough for "Dwight's parents" to identify themselves. When a parent calls, you know the voice well enough that they rarely say more than "hi." Jim would have said "hi" or "hi, who is this" in response if it were a real call. Also, no one is that quick, to prepare a bit like that on the spur of the moment.

All three calls had to be planned with Pam in advance.

They usually make it a bit more obvious that Pam is doing the pranking (like showing Pam quickly on the phone trying not to laugh). And with the first sales call Jim could easily have just said, ok and hung up before the sales guy could do anything about it.

Furthermore, if all of Dwight's calls are forwarded to Jim, don't think you a real sales call back (if you didn't think that was real) may have happened at some point? And instead of being routed to Dwight, they go straight to Jim instead... messing with Dwight's work?

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I won't rehash the whole spoiler argument, but why would you pop in the thread if you haven't seen it yet? So you can post speculation?

Anyhow: "Mr. Andrew Bernard...has a nice ring to it."

Exactly. I've avoided this thread for the last 2 days because I hadn't seen the episode until just now. Anyway, great episode tonight. Loved that Jim's moment was stolen in a way that felt very natural. The effects of Holly/fatherhood on Michael next season should be very interesting.


Edit: Wasn't expecting that final scene..

[GoldenEagle]

I think it was Pam making all three of the phone calls to Dwight's cell phone.

If you remember, Dwight has done some real jerk things to Jim as well. For example, in the Diversity episode, Dwight stole Jim's biggest client away from him.

I think Ryan will be back on the show in some shape or capacity. I am not sure how though. There is no faking the fraud though.

[Racer]

Not the office, but I randomly found a webshow on youtube yesterday that is similar to the office except it's in a dorm. Some of the episodes are pretty funny if you like the type of humor the office offers. The episodes are about 5 to 7 minutes in length. If you're interested, the website for the show is below:

hxxp://www.dorm-life.com/

or you can search dorm life on youtube.

[Raiders Army]

Just thinking today, but I'd want Kevin or Creed's desk in the office. I don't know how Jim does all that he does and his computer screen is facing Michael's office.

Kevin gets to do whatever he wants without anyone seeing him. The downside is sitting near Angela.

Creed has a pretty good position out near the edge of the office. The downside is that he has to look at Meredith all day.

[Dr. Sak]

Did anyone else know that Creed was the drummer for the group The Grass Roots?

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by bsak16

Did anyone else know that Creed was the drummer for the group The Grass Roots?

yes

and that Phyllis was a cheerleader for the Cardinals

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by bsak16

Did anyone else know that Creed was the drummer for the group The Grass Roots?

Yep, and he's playing an absurdist version of himself, because the Creed in the show was also in the Grass Roots. In the Benihana Christmas episode, he sings one of the band's songs.

[samifan24]

In case you missed it, the new "Kevin's Loan" webisodes started last week on NBC.com.

[GrantDawg]

I don't know how many people have followed the Office spin-off saga, but here's the latest. There is not going to be one as of right now. It was originally slated to premiere after a showing of the orginal Office following the Super Bowl. It seems there was a lot of wrangling over the show, and then Greg Daniels and Micheal Shur (Mose) came up with an entirely new show concept that will star Amy Poehler. That show will not be ready for the Super-bowl slot because she is currently pregnant. So, as of right now, NBC still does not know what is going to follow the Super Bowl. According to Ben Silverman (NBC Pres), a spin-off is not out of the question, but not likely right now as Daniels is concentrating on putting together this Poelher vehicle.

[Passacaglia]

lame

[MikeVic]

Did Daniels get Amy pregnant?

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Did Daniels get Amy pregnant?

No, but Toby's brother married and knocked up Angela.

[Barkeep49]

I had heard about Amy Proehler but hadn't realized it was for an entirely new concept.

[Butter]

I can't think of too many people less funny than Amy Poehler. Even her kids show on Nickelodeon is awful.

[terpkristin]

I'm finally getting around to watching Season 4. The only episode I got to watch "real-time" was the first one, with the race for the cure for rabies.

Not a bad season, though there are a lot more "oooh, Michael, that's embarrassing" moments.

/tk