NFL Week 10

[JonInMiddleGA]

Bailey was reportedly sitting in a car with at least one other adult when a gunman/gunment opened fire into the vehicle somewhere in/near Miami. (Bailey is a Broward County native). The driver of the vehicle is said to be more seriously wounded as he used his body to try to shield children that were in the car.

The third-year player from West Virginia University currently is serving a four-game suspension for violating NFL policy on substance abuse. Last season, Bailey served a two-game suspension for violating league policy on performance-enhancing drugs.

I'll just leave this here & go fix myself a cup of Lipton.

[stevew]

wonder how many casual people hear that story and think, "Oprah's dude got shot?!"

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by stevew

wonder how many casual people hear that story and think, "Oprah's dude got shot?!"

I don't know that reference.

As a sports fan and the NFL in particular, I immediately related him to the "Hands up, Don't shoot" protest before the Rams/Raiders game...

[Atocep]

Bailey is one of my favorite players to play at WVU. He was an incredibly hard worker at WVU that became one of the top receivers in the country despite not being the biggest or fastest guy out there.

I'll just leave this here & go fix myself a cup of Lipton.

He was suspended for weed and taking a supplement. Not exactly gangster-type shit that would indicate there's a serious problem.

[Atocep]

Dola

From TMZ

Bailey and another man were sitting in a car outside Bailey's family home when a car rolled up and opened fire at 8:45 PM ... striking Bailey twice in the head. The other driver was hit multiple times, reportedly while trying to shield two children in the car from the gunfire.

According to cops, the victims drove themselves to a nearby hospital for treatment. Bailey is listed in critical but stable condition and is set to undergo surgery early Wednesday morning.

Bailey's neighbor says the NFL player has a good reputation in the area and was not known for being involved in dangerous activity -- "he's a good guy."

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

He might not have ever been any good in the NFL. But, the Browns have completely mishandled Manziel.

Seriously. I mean he gets dropped to 3rd string because he was holding a bottle of champagne and rapping "profane lyrics" at a nightclub on a bye week? I mean did he show up to practice hungover or something? If you don't want your players to go to clubs... why draft someone like Manziel in the first place?

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Seriously. I mean he gets dropped to 3rd string because he was holding a bottle of champagne and rapping "profane lyrics" at a nightclub on a bye week? I mean did he show up to practice hungover or something? If you don't want your players to go to clubs... why draft someone like Manziel in the first place?

No he was benched after the team sent him through rehab after he admitted that he didn't take last year seriously. He's had multiple instances of being given the "Come to Jesus" talk and this was sort of the icing on the cake.

[ISiddiqui]

Did it affect his play either in practice or a game at all?

[Butter]

Who cares? He shouldn't be drinking, period. He got caught drinking and is getting as close to fired as you can get.

[Kodos]

I just wish he was on the Cowboys.

[ISiddiqui]

He shouldn't be drinking? He sent himself to rehab... the team didn't force him to do anything. As long as it doesn't interfere with his play, it should be fine (there is a ton of studies that show the 12 step always refrain from alcohol ever again is not necessary to deal with alcohol addiction and in fact may be even worse than promotion of moderation in consumption).

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Who cares? He shouldn't be drinking, period. He got caught drinking and is getting as close to fired as you can get.

Can you fire someone for drinking on their own time? I don't think he's in the NFL substance abuse program or anything like that.

This isn't high school or college. These are grown men allowed to do what they want with their free time, within reason.

Though I guess Pettine needs to get the power trip through his system. He'll be a DC or position coach somewhere next year.

[cartman]

Are some people really not seeing the red flags being thrown up when someone who just recently went through several weeks of rehab is then shown boozing it up?

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by cartman

Are some people really not seeing the red flags being thrown up when someone who just recently went through several weeks of rehab is then shown boozing it up?

Question is: is it affecting what he's doing on the field or is this a power trip by a coach whose headed out the door?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Question is: is it affecting what he's doing on the field or is this a power trip by a coach whose headed out the door?

So you let it slide until it finally does affect the on-field play, or do you try to address it before it does?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by cartman

So you let it slide until it finally does affect the on-field play, or do you try to address it before it does?

His rehab was something he personally did, not something mandated by the team. In addition, if he's going on the moderate drinking route and not the give up drinking route, holding a bottle of champagne while rapping doesn't indicate that he got drunk. There is no evidence of that.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by cartman

So you let it slide until it finally does affect the on-field play, or do you try to address it before it does?

It is a results oriented business. The Browns drafted the guy in the first-round and have been mishandling him from the get go. The coaching staff has treated him like he's infected with Ebola since day one. I'd probably be drinking too.

Though we don't even know that he was actually drinking.

[Atocep]

I think the issue here is that it has affected his play and preparation in the past. He was just given the starting QB job which comes with an expectation of being a leader. He was told by the coaching staff to handle himself like a professional over the bye week and this surfaces.

As an isolated incident I don't think it's a big deal, but given the history here I can see why the Browns are upset.

[cartman]

C'mon Imran, you aren't that obtuse. You go to rehab to eliminate stuff like that from your life, not moderate it. How many more chances is he gonna get to say "I've learned from my mistakes, and need to make changes in my life." It is a refrain that has stretched back to high school.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by cartman

C'mon Imran, you aren't that obtuse. You go to rehab to eliminate stuff like that from your life, not moderate it. How many more chances is he gonna get to say "I've learned from my mistakes, and need to make changes in my life." It is a refrain that has stretched back to high school.

Tons of studies and research say that the 'old way' of dealing with alcohol addiction is getting rid of it entirely is not necessarily useful and may cause undue difficulty. That a focus on moderate drinking is far preferable to the whole never touch it again.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by cartman

C'mon Imran, you aren't that obtuse. You go to rehab to eliminate stuff like that from your life, not moderate it. How many more chances is he gonna get to say "I've learned from my mistakes, and need to make changes in my life." It is a refrain that has stretched back to high school.

He hasn't even been in the NFL for two years yet. Not everyone is mature by the age of 22.

[BillJasper]

I do wonder if someone like Ken Stabler could make it in the modern NFL?

Ken Stabler personified daring and fun - SBNation.com

[cartman]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

He hasn't even been in the NFL for two years yet. Not everyone is mature by the age of 22.

So maybe he isn't ready yet to be the starting QB of an NFL team. Especially if his thought process leads him to think it was a good idea to fly to Austin and party for a couple days, when he had just been named the starter, heading into a bye week.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I do wonder if someone like Ken Stabler could make it in the modern NFL?

Ken Stabler personified daring and fun - SBNation.com

Namath has said his "Broadway Joe" persona wouldn't have cut it in today's NFL. It was barely passable back then, with this SB III legacy helping to overshadow the rest of his play over his career.

[cougarfreak]

Suzy might have said yes back in his playing days though

[molson]

I'd bet there was some understanding between Manziel and the browns regarding his weekend activities during the season.

[Kodos]

If you're dumb enough to draft Manziel, you get what you deserve.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by cartman

Namath has said his "Broadway Joe" persona wouldn't have cut it in today's NFL. It was barely passable back then, with this SB III legacy helping to overshadow the rest of his play over his career.

I don't know if it was his persona or just his level of play. I know passing stats were much worse then, and don't have time to dive into era-specific comparison, but in 11 of his 13 seasons he threw more INT's than TD's and he had a below .500 career winning %. He's easily the most egregious Hall of Fame selection in any of the 4 major sports.

[HomerSimpson98]

Fuck the Browns and Pettine. Let Johnny go somewhere where they will give him a fucking chance. The difference in his play from this year compared to last year is like night and day. He's proven he's matured and taken this stuff seriously on the field.

My only beef with Johnny is he keeps going to that shit town to party.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by HomerSimpson98

Fuck the Browns and Pettine. Let Johnny go somewhere where they will give him a fucking chance. The difference in his play from this year compared to last year is like night and day. He's proven he's matured and taken this stuff seriously on the field.

This is what it should come down to. Can he play or can't he? Why do the Browns care what the guy does with a couple days off. He didn't break any laws.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Question is: is it affecting what he's doing on the field or is this a power trip by a coach whose headed out the door?

It does have that ring to it, BUT ...

I don't know what agreements/commitments were made between Manziel and the club. Maybe he swore off drinking even a drop or ever leaving his house or something of that sort, which is between him & them.

But, yeah, this looks like some real organizational stupidity on the basis of what we know.

[stevew]

Are the Browns tryimg to void the last 2 years of Manziel's contract over player conduct? He should be getting an extended look but it appears that he's a turd burger. Might make sense to IR him next week and tell him to seek help once again. And I totally don't understand how someone that is like all of 24 years old with a bad drinking problem. Even if he was drinking at an early age, the habitual problems he's having don't make much sense.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by stevew

And I totally don't understand how someone that is like all of 24 years old with a bad drinking problem. Even if he was drinking at an early age, the habitual problems he's having don't make much sense.

I've known people who were alcoholics as early as 13-14 and remained pretty much that way for the remainder of their lives.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by stevew

Are the Browns tryimg to void the last 2 years of Manziel's contract over player conduct?

Not quite sure that he's done anything that would allow the Browns to terminate his contract "for cause"? I'm not sure a picture of him with a bottle of booze qualifies.

[molson]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

This is what it should come down to. Can he play or can't he? Why do the Browns care what the guy does with a couple days off. He didn't break any laws.

That's true for any other player, but don't things change once you throw away one season because of you attitude and drinking? I think the browns are entitled to know what they have with this guy character wise. If he promised them he'd get through one season without partying on weekends (my assumption) and he couldn't do it, they need to move on.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by molson

That's true for any other player, but don't things change once you throw away one season because of you attitude and drinking? I think the browns are entitled to know what they have with this guy character wise. If he promised them he'd get through one season without partying on weekends (my assumption) and he couldn't do it, they need to move on.

I find character arguments about NFL players a joke.

The Browns are the poster child for what instability can do to a franchise. They drafted him, he's shown flashes of talent and they are constantly doing whatever they can to keep him off the field. Which makes no real sense.

Second 1st round QB they've drafted this decade and it looks to be the second they cut bait on after two seasons. Not exactly a road map to Super Bowl trophies.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

This is what it should come down to. Can he play or can't he? Why do the Browns care what the guy does with a couple days off. He didn't break any laws.

Except it's not that simple in any sport and not with any organization. There's a certain amount of bullshit teams are willing to put up with that is weighted by how good the player is.

Bonds could still play when he stopped getting offers in baseball because it reached the point where it wasn't worth it anymore.

T.O. was probably still at least a #2 receiver somewhere as far as talent goes, but it reached a point where his talent wasn't worth the shit that came with him.

History is full of guys like this.

Manziel's issues are different, but I don't think it changes the fact that there's only a certain amount of shit you're willing to deal with before you decide it's not worth it and move on.

[molson]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I find character arguments about NFL players a joke.

The Browns are the poster child for what instability can do to a franchise. They drafted him, he's shown flashes of talent and they are constantly doing whatever they can to keep him off the field. Which makes no real sense.

Second 1st round QB they've drafted this decade and it looks to be the second they cut bait on after two seasons. Not exactly a road map to Super Bowl trophies.

It was a bad pick and they're paying for it, but Manziel is to blame for ruining his own career. i doubt we even know the whole story about what went down last year. I'm just saying this isn't like any other player partying on the weekend. Gronk's lifestyle is well known but nobody cares because he shows up ready to go. Manziel has a different history.

[Suicane75]

It's a shame Cleveland doesn't have two other football teams so they could demote the Browns.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Except it's not that simple in any sport and not with any organization. There's a certain amount of bullshit teams are willing to put up with that is weighted by how good the player is.

Bonds could still play when he stopped getting offers in baseball because it reached the point where it wasn't worth it anymore.

T.O. was probably still at least a #2 receiver somewhere as far as talent goes, but it reached a point where his talent wasn't worth the shit that came with him.

History is full of guys like this.

Manziel's issues are different, but I don't think it changes the fact that there's only a certain amount of shit you're willing to deal with before you decide it's not worth it and move on.

THIS

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I just wish he was on the Cowboys.

Given Jerry Jones infatuation with him during the draft and how he doesn't care one bit about serious character issues (see Greg Hardy), it would not surprise me at all if he's on their roster by this time next year.

[Logan]

Report: Johnny Manziel Told His Friends To Lie To The Browns About Partying Video

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Logan

Report: Johnny Manziel Told His Friends To Lie To The Browns About Partying Video

I'm sure its still the team's fault for being unreasonable with poor, innocent Johnny somehow.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Radii

I'm sure its still the team's fault for being unreasonable with poor, innocent Johnny somehow.

Team needs to be in the business of winning games, not trying to control the personal lives of its players.

Manziel is nether poor nor innocent. He's a football player and his job should be determined by what he does on the field, outside of a few exceptions such as beating women.

[Solecismic]

While I'd be inclined to agree with that statement, this is a player who didn't progress as a rookie quarterback with a first-round investment. Apparently because his lifestyle was enough of a distraction that he and his coaches agreed that he needed to seek treatment.

On his bye week, he gets a few days off. That's not the question here. But because of those issues, his coaches would have preferred that he take his illness seriously enough that he refrain from going back to Texas and partying/drinking. He knew that. He knew enough to lie about the pictures and ask his friends to lie for him as well.

As a coach, at this point, how do you ask your team to place its confidence in this quarterback?

Obviously, he's the most talented quarterback they have, and under ordinary circumstances, when you're 2-8 and the AFC wild-card probably requires nine wins, you'd turn it over to him and see how he progresses. But because of this, you wonder if he's taking that assignment seriously. And so will his teammates.

I don't envy the Browns, but I think they have no choice here. They will draft very high next year, and there are three quarterbacks who look like they'll have first-round grades. Better to commit to that solution.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Obviously, he's the most talented quarterback they have, and under ordinary circumstances, when you're 2-8 and the AFC wild-card probably requires nine wins, you'd turn it over to him and see how he progresses. But because of this, you wonder if he's taking that assignment seriously. And so will his teammates.

He's been the most talented QB there. If I'm on the team, I'm wondering why we aren't doing everything possible to win games.

This was a coaching staff that was obviously unhappy from the Manziel selection from the start. They don't seem to have made Manziel's development any kind of priority.

It doesn't make Manziel some kind of choir boy. But I imagine it hasn't helped his development if he feels unwanted by those in charge.

I don't envy the Browns, but I think they have no choice here. They will draft very high next year, and there are three quarterbacks who look like they'll have first-round grades. Better to commit to that solution.

I just don't see bringing in yet another first round guy as the answer, unless everyone is on the same page in Cleveland. It will just lead to more dysfunction.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

They don't seem to have made Manziel's development any kind of priority.

Neither has Manziel.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Neither has Manziel.

Possibly. But you still have an entire team of players wondering why the best player at a position isn't playing. Instead, the Browns continue to run out retreads who have proven that they can't play the position with any consistency.

Manziel likely is a complete tool and difficult. I can't believe there aren't a lot of players that are any different. But, the coaching staff's job is to win games, not play power games with a 22 year old.

[EagleFan]

Manziel is not an NFL quarterback, regardless of his off field issues.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Manziel is not an NFL quarterback, regardless of his off field issues.

Problem being that neither are the other guys Cleveland is running out there.