Improvements in Madden 2010

[Epi_862]

IGN pimped 2 completely new online features that'll be unveiled at E3. WHAT CAN THEY BE? The suspense is killing me. Well, not really.

But hey, i'll go ahead and guess: coop play and online franchises.

Coop play would be awesome, and i recall it being talked about in one of the inside blogs in the past.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Epi_862

IGN pimped 2 completely new online features that'll be unveiled at E3. WHAT CAN THEY BE? The suspense is killing me. Well, not really.

But hey, i'll go ahead and guess: coop play and online franchises.

Coop play would be awesome, and i recall it being talked about in one of the inside blogs in the past.

Online coop was announced on Spike today.

[Epi_862]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Online coop was announced on Spike today.

Any details?

[Karlifornia]

I will not touch this game unless I have at least two months worth of ringing endorsements.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

You thought cheese was bad online BEFORE online co-op? Just wait.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

You thought cheese was bad online BEFORE online co-op? Just wait.

Not if you only play with a group of good friends who don't cheese. I'm excited as a few of my buddies from college and I will be resuming our old 2-on-2 matchups. Random players will always lead to cheese in almost any game.

[Logan]

Yeah I can count on one hand the number of online games I played against anyone that isn't a friend or from here.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Not if you only play with a group of good friends who don't cheese. I'm excited as a few of my buddies from college and I will be resuming our old 2-on-2 matchups. Random players will always lead to cheese in almost any game.

Sure, and that works fine in that case. But a lot of gamers would like a situation where they can play online without worries about exploits. I suppose you're probably right that it's simply not achievable at this point if past iterations are any indication.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Sure, and that works fine in that case. But a lot of gamers would like a situation where they can play online without worries about exploits. I suppose you're probably right that it's simply not achievable at this point if past iterations are any indication.

As usual, you are being overly critical of EA. Cheesing online is an issue in just about EVERY game. GTA4, NBA 2k9, PES all had terrible cheesers out there if you played random people. It's a fact of online games if you play random people.

[Eaglesfan27]

Dola -

This announcement almost guarantees online franchise will be available this year as Ian and Phil have both said that there will be a much bigger online announcement during the beginning of E3 next week.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

As usual, you are being overly critical of EA. Cheesing online is an issue in just about EVERY game. GTA4, NBA 2k9, PES all had terrible cheesers out there if you played random people. It's a fact of online games if you play random people.

Not true. We'll go back to the developer's comments that they were trying to reach the same level as 'The Show' in terms of game quality. You can go online with a random person in that game and can get a legitimate game without any cheese. If you do the same thing on Madden, you're going to get cheese galore.

The developer has set the bar level high and I applaud him for doing that. Don't get suckered into past iterations and their expectations. If our expectations are that this year's iteration will be better than the previous iteration of Madden, is that really a high bar to clear? Absolutely not. The developer has set his goals at a quality level. Gamers shouldn't settle for anything less. We need more developers who set the bar high in the gaming industry.

[Logan]

How do you "cheese" in baseball? Continually use that money play of swinging hard at the inside fastball?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

How do you "cheese" in baseball? Continually use that money play of swinging hard at the inside fastball?

Same way you do it in football. Find a loophole in gameplay that you can exploit. Are the opportunities different in scope? Probably. Does that change the fact that the Madden development team has been woefully inadequate in doing their job and closing these loopholes? Absolutely not.

Show me a cheese opportunity in Madden and I'll show you a developer that didn't do his job. Listen, EA was actually CHARGING people as recent as two years ago for the chance to watch a video detailing the loopholes that could be exploited. They were actually ENCOURAGING this kind of play by showing a video of gamers exploiting the game's engine. It's not like these exploits have been a big mystery. They're fully documented each and every year by people who report the exploits on EA's own message boards. They simply haven't done their job.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Same way you do it in football. Find a loophole in gameplay that you can exploit.

Can you provide an example of what is a potential loophole in gameplay in a baseball game? Seriously, because I can't think of any.

[Sun Tzu]

I really have to say, I'm excited about the Online Franchises. I think I would wind up playing in 1 online NCAA Dynasty, and 1 online Madden Franchise.

I see that MBBF is still at his blistering pace of posting 20% of this threads posts (this is not an exaggeration).

[Eaglesfan27]

I said almost every game has online cheesers. Obviously, baseball does not lend itself to cheesing.

[Kodos]

EA could enclose a hundred dollar bill in every game that was purchased for $59.99, and MBBF would find a reason to be critical of it.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Kodos

EA could enclose a hundred dollar bill in every game that was purchased for $59.99, and MBBF would find a reason to be critical of it.

I'd play any of their games for a $40.01 credit. Myth debunked.

[Kodos]

But you'd likely complain that it was $100 Canadian.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Kodos

But you'd likely complain that it was $100 Canadian.

I don't take no stinkin' Canuck dollars. A man has to draw the line somewhere.

[Kodos]

At least the exchange rate is better than it used to be.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

Can you provide an example of what is a potential loophole in gameplay in a baseball game? Seriously, because I can't think of any.

The 2K franchise has had a couple of 'super defense' cheats. The Show (either 06 or 07) had a bunt for a hit cheat. They'd keep bunting for a hit over and over until the defense was forced to bring in the infield on every play, then they'd swing away and obviously have much better success. If the defense moved back, they'd start bunting again.

[ColtCrazy]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

I really have to say, I'm excited about the Online Franchises. I think I would wind up playing in 1 online NCAA Dynasty, and 1 online Madden Franchise.

Me too. I would love to join a Madden Dynasty if the game has been tweaked from last year. Putting several guys in the same conference would make for some great rivalries and playoff moments.

I'm fighting my rising expectations, but I haven't played Madden 09 in 2 months and the longer I go without NFL, the more I hope this fills that void.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Kodos

At least the exchange rate is better than it used to be.

On your planet or here in the U.S.?

[spleen1015]

I'd like to request that MBBF quit cheesing up this damn thread. Bloody hell, dude.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by ColtCrazy

Putting several guys in the same conference would make for some great rivalries and playoff moments.

We used to do that long ago in college with NCAA Football on the Genesis. We'd have 8 guys and each one would play with a Big 8 school. It was a blast once we got into the conference season. My ideal would be that online dynasty play with either EA game would be good enough that we could do something like that again with the same guys.

[spleen1015]

I have dibs on the Colts in the FOF online league.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I have dibs on the Colts in the FOF online league.

I've got the Eagles

[Kodos]

I've got the Lions!








D'oh!

[Sun Tzu]

Niners

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The 2K franchise has had a couple of 'super defense' cheats. The Show (either 06 or 07) had a bunt for a hit cheat. They'd keep bunting for a hit over and over until the defense was forced to bring in the infield on every play, then they'd swing away and obviously have much better success. If the defense moved back, they'd start bunting again.

1) That's about the only loophole I could find in a baseball game and as good as the show has been for years, they fell prey to the same damned thing and jack asses exploited it, proving EF's point.

2) In a football game, you have hundreds of plays, and hundreds of calculations for every player in a single play. There will always be some jack asses out there trying to exploit that fact.

3) I don't play a lot online, but a year or so ago I wanted to try playing NCAA online to see if it improved the experience for me. Nobody on here was online at the time, so I got set up with a random opponent. He cheesed. I quit after the first quarter. I tried again, found a guy who not only didn't cheese, but someone who is a friend to this day. Tried again the next day, had a fair game. Tried again, found a cheeser, quite after Q1. Total time spent dealing with the cheesers was about 15 minutes. Compared to 1 1/2 hours dealing with cool people.

What I'm trying to say is: People control the online experience. EA isn't going to be able to stop people from being asses. There are plenty of people on this board who have their gamer ID's posted. Most of us have friends to play with as well. If you go the random route, you'll find some idiots. And when you do, you simply move on. There are plenty of people out there who want to do it the right way.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by TroyF

What I'm trying to say is: People control the online experience. EA isn't going to be able to stop people from being asses. There are plenty of people on this board who have their gamer ID's posted. Most of us have friends to play with as well. If you go the random route, you'll find some idiots. And when you do, you simply move on. There are plenty of people out there who want to do it the right way.

To an extent I agree, but the game still plays a role. Ultilmately the exploits used are flaws in the game. While it's great to play friends who won't exploit those flaws, it's still the responsibility of the game to fix them. No game will get it perfect but over time they should be able to get real close.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

To an extent I agree, but the game still plays a role. Ultilmately the exploits used are flaws in the game. While it's great to play friends who won't exploit those flaws, it's still the responsibility of the game to fix them. No game will get it perfect but over time they should be able to get real close.

I think the focus really needs to be on the gameplay in the single-player experience. If you can create a sound game engine there, it will translate to a good online experience. I see this as a big reason why there are so many issues with Madden gameplay up to now.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

To an extent I agree, but the game still plays a role. Ultilmately the exploits used are flaws in the game. While it's great to play friends who won't exploit those flaws, it's still the responsibility of the game to fix them. No game will get it perfect but over time they should be able to get real close.

But the point is, MBBF responded to EF's post about all games having cheese opportunity by saying:

We'll go back to the developer's comments that they were trying to reach the same level as 'The Show' in terms of game quality. You can go online with a random person in that game and can get a legitimate game without any cheese. If you do the same thing on Madden, you're going to get cheese galore.

Well, fucking obviously. Apparently the only cheese opportunities in baseball games deals with bunting up and down a lineup. The NBA 2k series is a fantastic series, Madden would be lucky to accomplish what they have...but the structure of the game lends itself to the ability to continually score in certain ways. Baseball isn't the same thing.

Just another instance of him trying to sell a bullshit argument.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

Just another instance of him trying to sell a bullshit argument.

Indicating that the opportunities for cheesing will be increased with online co-op play is a bullshit argument? Hardly. As EF27 mentioned, there's ways to get friends together to avoid the issues, but it doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of loopholes in the game. The real bullshit argument is trying to say that it's too difficult to keep people to exploit the game because there's hundreds of calculations and it's too difficult to control. It's fine if people want to make the same tired excuses for Madden, but I'm very happy that the new developer isn't making any excuses in his expectation comments. It's about time.

[Kodos]

Name me one football game ever created that had no exploits.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Name me one football game ever created that had no exploits.

There's no game that has no issues. It's an irrelevant point. Developers should be striving to minimize the exploits in the game. There's little question that the Madden team over the last few years didn't even come close to achieving that simple goal that all developers should strive toward. If anything, it's gone the other way over the last couple of iterations.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Indicating that the opportunities for cheesing will be increased with online co-op play is a bullshit argument? Hardly.

It's bullshit because your response to EF's very valid point was "Well, you can't cheese in the Show." I asked you how to cheese in a baseball game and your shining example was bunting. Give us a break already.

[Kodos]

It's amazing how much time you spend railing on a game that you have rarely actually played.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

It's bullshit because your response to EF's very valid point was "Well, you can't cheese in the Show." I asked you how to cheese in a baseball game and your shining example was bunting. Give us a break already.

Fair enough. I'm on board with the current developer that the current Madden game needs to reach the standard set by the Show, and that includes online play. I can guarantee you that any good developer would never legitimize the holes in gameplay on the game, both offline and online, regardless of what game it is. The game has been sorely deficient in recent years and I've seen nothing about a game engine rebuild. That's concerning.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I've got the Lions!








D'oh!

I'd kill you first.

[Sun Tzu]

Originally Posted by Kodos

It's amazing how much time you spend railing on a game that you have rarely actually played.

This is the funniest part.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Kodos

It's amazing how much time you spend railing on a game that you have rarely actually played.

Which is simply not true. Proof of that? All I've stated is that I haven't paid for a Madden game in some time, though I did pick up a 'Collector's Edition' on clearance for $35 last year just so I could play Head Coach. I've played every Madden game for the last 4-5 years to some extent. I'm just not paying a dime to fill EA's pockets.

[watravaler]

I'm gonna side with the EA haters here. EA does a good job, for the most part...but the Madden game, especially franchise mode, has been an absolute and utter joke for the past 4 years. It's a fun time-wasting game, but I'll never get my hopes up, as I don't think EA has the ability to make the near-perfect football game. I understand coding/programming an excellent football game/simulation is borderline impossible, but the franchise mode glitches/errors/etc are something that could be fixed, and yet they fail to do so year after year. I'm not holding my breath, I'll wait a month or two as some of my friends start buying the game/online peeps start out-lining issues, and then I'll rent it. I hope this is EA's year..

[Big Fo]

As long as you can avoid co-op players when choosing to play Madden online by yourself I don't think this is a big deal.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Which is simply not true. Proof of that?

See the NCAA 2009 thread, plus the thread of all the online franchises where you kept trying to tell folks they weren't supposed to be having as much fun as they were because all the reviews said it sucked and had major issues.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

See the NCAA 2009 thread, plus the thread of all the online franchises where you kept trying to tell folks they weren't supposed to be having as much fun as they were because all the reviews said it sucked and had major issues.

And I eventually got both of those games (NCAA and Madden) and tried them out. I posted my opinion after playing the game, noting that I finally had a copy to play.

[gstelmack]

But you were more than willing to argue how good/bad the game was with people who owned and actively played it before you ever got it which was the point made above that you asked for proof on.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

But you were more than willing to argue how good/bad the game was with people who owned and actively played it before you ever got it which was the point made above that you asked for proof on.

This is obviously more about MBBF than it is about EA, because it's blatently obvious that the Madden games have been brutally sub-par in the past few iterations. If you want to nitpick on when I said Madden had gaping holes in gameplay, feel free. The statement was correct. I enjoy the higher level of proof required of my opinion, but in the end, I've been spot-on in regards to the lackluster gameplay in this game. The excuses for poor development get old in a big hurry. I know you wouldn't settle for this lack of quality development in your games.

[Epi_862]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

This is obviously more about MBBF than it is about EA, because it's blatently obvious that the Madden games have been brutally sub-par in the past few iterations. If you want to nitpick on when I said Madden had gaping holes in gameplay, feel free. The statement was correct. I enjoy the higher level of proof required of my opinion, but in the end, I've been spot-on in regards to the lackluster gameplay in this game. The excuses for poor development get old in a big hurry. I know you wouldn't settle for this lack of quality development in your games.

This is a real question, what do you wish to accomplish with posting every other message in this thread and just bitch and whine?