College Football: Week 2 Discussion..... - Page 6

BrianD · 09-07-2008, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

We can argue over whether it was the right call or not (it certainly wasn't called the same in all games Saturday), but it's a fucking stupid rule. This is football, not a tea party.

That would be why I suggested blaming the rules committee and not the officials.

CU Tiger · 09-07-2008, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

I've never played college ball, but I've played plenty of high school sports and other lower-than-college levels of sports. I also played skill-positions in football, running back and split end. I also scored plenty of TDs. Care to guess how many times I had to think about what I could or couldn't do after a score? Yep, zero. After years of playing organized football, you know you can't spike the ball, you can't throw the ball, you can't do much of anything with the ball. This isn't a rule you have to think about because it is one you play with for years.

I never played a "skill position" but played a bunch of football.
Im thinking of a game winning scenario, maybe Im just overly extroverted emotionally but I can say without question, I have done much more involved reactions that required no thought.

At the end of the day, I wont argue that the ref made the right call by the letter of the law, I WILL argue that the rule sucks, the player does not deserve condemnation for his actions, and the ref did not HAVE to call it, but probably was right in doing so.

BrianD · 09-07-2008, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I never played a "skill position" but played a bunch of football.
Im thinking of a game winning scenario, maybe Im just overly extroverted emotionally but I can say without question, I have done much more involved reactions that required no thought.

I am fairly introverted emotionally, so maybe that makes some difference. Still, in about 9 years of competitive organized football, I never had to think about what to do with a ball after a score. Drop the ball, go celebrate with the teammates. This doesn't mean that nobody could or would ever forget in a moment of excitement. I just think that the rule doesn't penalize something that can't be reasonably avoided.

Quote:

At the end of the day, I wont argue that the ref made the right call by the letter of the law, I WILL argue that the rule sucks, the player does not deserve condemnation for his actions, and the ref did not HAVE to call it, but probably was right in doing so.

I agree that the player does not deserve condemnation for his actions. He didn't intentionally break a rule. He didn't do a crazy dance. He got excited, made a mistake and incurred a penalty. It sucks, but it happens.

I'd be curious to know if this type of action is what the rules committee had in mind when they made this a point of emphasis. I can understand wanting to cut down excessive celebrations, but this didn't seem to be that.

MacroGuru · 09-07-2008, 07:50 PM

I know I am a BYU homer and I have blue tinted goggles on, but their kicker failed and our defense made a brilliant play.

HOWEVER, thats not being talked about. Granted UW is a weak Pac-10 team, but we traveled to their house and won (Barely) but we get beat up by it. We shook a 7 year monkey off of our back (again Barely).

Oh well, I guess if we beat UCLA at our house it will be a little bit better.

MrBug708 · 09-07-2008, 07:57 PM

He wasn't even standing when he got rid of the ball, he was still coming up in the air. The announcer is a former "skill" position player in the PAC-10 and even he seemed shocked

DeToxRox · 09-07-2008, 08:10 PM

Because I hadn't chimed in..

College kickers for the most part are not good. It's different kicking a normal PAT from the PAT the UW kid had to kick. He tried kicking it more like a FG and lined it. I bet it doesn't happen if its a normal PAT.

Should they have blocked better, sure.

But in college that should not be a penalty. Look at the circumstance for chrissake. These are college kids. They fucking go nuts when they find coupons for buy one get one free pizza. Let them have a little fun. It isn't like Locker took the ball, and pretending to give birth to it, then abort it.

It was all dumb. Let these kids play.

MacroGuru · 09-07-2008, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

He wasn't even standing when he got rid of the ball, he was still coming up in the air. The announcer is a former "skill" position player in the PAC-10 and even he seemed shocked

The ball went 25 to 30 feet in the air....to the tenet of the rules, he broke them. it sucks the game ended that way, but he did break them.

The announcers were Pac-10 homers of course they are going to be shocked by it.

It's ok, see the hold on 84, the one who blocked the FG...we put up with that all game long....

Also, the other thing that was lost in all of this was Derin Harris, the guy had some serious game and brought it. Anyone hear how he is doing?

MrBug708 · 09-08-2008, 05:41 PM

ESPN - Pac-10: Officials got unsportsmanlike conduct call against Locker right - College Football

Quote:

"The rule seems pretty cut and dried," Coordinator of football officiating for the Pac-10 Conference Dave Cutaia said, according to the Seattle Times, of Rule 9, Section 2, Article 2c, which states that a player can be penalized for an unsportsmanlike act for "throwing the ball high into the air.

Quote:

"It is a celebration rule that we are required to call," Pac-10 referee Larry Farina said after the game. "It was not a judgment call."

Quote:

However, David Parry, national coordinator national coordinator for college football officiating, said Sunday that all calls are judgment calls, although he was in no way critical of the call or the official who made it, since there's no doubt Locker broke the rule.

Dr. Sak · 09-08-2008, 07:49 PM

The Nitaly Lions look good

dawgfan · 09-08-2008, 10:15 PM

Chiming in on the UW/BYU game. The call was technically correct. Thus, it's hard to criticize the ref for calling it since, based on the way that rule is written, Locker definitely committed a penalty.

However, what's frustrating about this is that refs don't always call that penalty. They didn't call it in all circumstances this weekend. They certainly don't call all potential "taunting" penalties, nor many other types of penalties (holding is frequently overlooked). And the fact that the called that penalty in that situation - not just that it was going to affect the outcome of the game (notice I said "affect", not "decide"), but that the celebration was clearly not premeditated or in any way taunting or unsportsmanlike by any reasonable definition.

And it did have an effect on the PAT try. Not only was the attempt now a 35 yard kick instead of an 18 yard kick, which meant that the kicker had to take more steps into his kick, hit it harder to clear the goal posts (which means a lower trajectory) and be more careful with his aim rather than basically just chipping it into the air, it also meant that BYU could sell out completely on trying to block the kick, something they couldn't have done had it been a normal PAT try. Not to mention the emotional boost BYU got from that call. So that call most definitely affected the outcome of the game.

That said, it's still on the UW to make that kick - a 35 yard kick shouldn't be tremendously harder than an 18 yard kick. And even had the UW made the kick, that only would've put the game into OT. From my vantage point, I didn't think our D had a chance of preventing BYU from scoring consistently - the only reason the game was as close as it was came from an incredibly athletic interception by one of our LB's and the good fortune of recovering a forced fumble at the goal line when it looked like BYU was about to go up by 14 points in the 4th quarter.

Ty was going for 1 all the way, and in my view that would've been a mistake - I felt the UW had a better chance of winning going for 2 from the 3 yard line than going into the college OT system. While BYU's defense played reasonably well, I don't think they could've stopped Jake Locker from getting in the end zone from the 3 yard line against our spread formation. If they covered the receivers adequately, Jake would've had room to waltz into the endzone. If they sold out to pressure Jake, there would've been multiple receivers open in the end zone.

Give credit to BYU for playing well. I think UW has more raw talent, but it's not developed nearly as well, and I think our head coach is a detriment and makes what should be a pretty good staff look worse than they are. BYU on the other hand I think is a pretty well coached team. I hear UW fans talk about trying to poach Bronco Mendenhall, but I fail to see why he'd want to come to the UW, especially considering he's LDS.

Ty is almost certainly finished after this season, maybe even before it ends. We all expect to lose to Oklahoma next week - the big question will be how we play against Stanford. A loss there and Ty might be a goner soon after.

09-07-2008, 07:50 PM	#254
MacroGuru Coordinator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Utah	I know I am a BYU homer and I have blue tinted goggles on, but their kicker failed and our defense made a brilliant play. HOWEVER, thats not being talked about. Granted UW is a weak Pac-10 team, but we traveled to their house and won (Barely) but we get beat up by it. We shook a 7 year monkey off of our back (again Barely). Oh well, I guess if we beat UCLA at our house it will be a little bit better. __________________ "forgetting what is in the past, I strive for the future"

09-07-2008, 07:57 PM	#255
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	He wasn't even standing when he got rid of the ball, he was still coming up in the air. The announcer is a former "skill" position player in the PAC-10 and even he seemed shocked

09-07-2008, 08:10 PM	#256
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	Because I hadn't chimed in.. College kickers for the most part are not good. It's different kicking a normal PAT from the PAT the UW kid had to kick. He tried kicking it more like a FG and lined it. I bet it doesn't happen if its a normal PAT. Should they have blocked better, sure. But in college that should not be a penalty. Look at the circumstance for chrissake. These are college kids. They fucking go nuts when they find coupons for buy one get one free pizza. Let them have a little fun. It isn't like Locker took the ball, and pretending to give birth to it, then abort it. It was all dumb. Let these kids play.

09-08-2008, 07:49 PM	#259
Dr. Sak Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Stuck in Yinzerville, PA	The Nitaly Lions look good

09-08-2008, 10:15 PM	#260
dawgfan Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Seattle	Chiming in on the UW/BYU game. The call was technically correct. Thus, it's hard to criticize the ref for calling it since, based on the way that rule is written, Locker definitely committed a penalty. However, what's frustrating about this is that refs don't always call that penalty. They didn't call it in all circumstances this weekend. They certainly don't call all potential "taunting" penalties, nor many other types of penalties (holding is frequently overlooked). And the fact that the called that penalty in that situation - not just that it was going to affect the outcome of the game (notice I said "affect", not "decide"), but that the celebration was clearly not premeditated or in any way taunting or unsportsmanlike by any reasonable definition. And it did have an effect on the PAT try. Not only was the attempt now a 35 yard kick instead of an 18 yard kick, which meant that the kicker had to take more steps into his kick, hit it harder to clear the goal posts (which means a lower trajectory) and be more careful with his aim rather than basically just chipping it into the air, it also meant that BYU could sell out completely on trying to block the kick, something they couldn't have done had it been a normal PAT try. Not to mention the emotional boost BYU got from that call. So that call most definitely affected the outcome of the game. That said, it's still on the UW to make that kick - a 35 yard kick shouldn't be tremendously harder than an 18 yard kick. And even had the UW made the kick, that only would've put the game into OT. From my vantage point, I didn't think our D had a chance of preventing BYU from scoring consistently - the only reason the game was as close as it was came from an incredibly athletic interception by one of our LB's and the good fortune of recovering a forced fumble at the goal line when it looked like BYU was about to go up by 14 points in the 4th quarter. Ty was going for 1 all the way, and in my view that would've been a mistake - I felt the UW had a better chance of winning going for 2 from the 3 yard line than going into the college OT system. While BYU's defense played reasonably well, I don't think they could've stopped Jake Locker from getting in the end zone from the 3 yard line against our spread formation. If they covered the receivers adequately, Jake would've had room to waltz into the endzone. If they sold out to pressure Jake, there would've been multiple receivers open in the end zone. Give credit to BYU for playing well. I think UW has more raw talent, but it's not developed nearly as well, and I think our head coach is a detriment and makes what should be a pretty good staff look worse than they are. BYU on the other hand I think is a pretty well coached team. I hear UW fans talk about trying to poach Bronco Mendenhall, but I fail to see why he'd want to come to the UW, especially considering he's LDS. Ty is almost certainly finished after this season, maybe even before it ends. We all expect to lose to Oklahoma next week - the big question will be how we play against Stanford. A loss there and Ty might be a goner soon after.

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