College Football Week 11 Discussion

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Deserve was a bad word choice. At 8-4 coming off a win over mid-pack BE UConn and top 12-ish Stanford I can see the Gator picking them over football-wise more deserving Rutgers, West Virginia or even 10-2 Pitt, complete with the histrionics from fans who pretend not to understand these games are almost entirely about money. But at 7-5 (or, god forbid, 6-6) I can't see the Gator Bowl stooping that low, and as an ND fan even I would think it was a joke.

In other news, just saw in the NFL thread Gruden inked a multi-year extension as a broadcaster. He wasn't my choice for ND, and as we all know contracts are made to be broken, but it is interesting timing.

Colin Cowherd reported that he had some personal sources close to Stoops in Oklahoma that Stoops is feeling un appreciated at Oklahoma after (in his mind) rebuilding the whole Oklahoma FB program. Also, recent criticism from Alumni has soured him at Oklahoma. I think Stoops could be a decent move.
Cowherd also noted that it appears the "wheels are already moving" in regards to replacing Charlie and they are noted waiting for UConn to start reaching out to Stoops. Apparently ND has reached out to Stoops at least in formally. As for Weis if he losses to UConn it is over regardlessof if they can beat Standford at Standford (no chance if they can't beat UConn./Navy @ home).I think unless ND wins there last 2 and the Bowl game against more than likely a superior to team Weis is gone no doubt.
My ND wishlist is:
Kelly-Cincy
Stoops-Oklahoma
Petersen-Boise

[dawgfan]

I think Brian Kelly is the most likely candidate of those three. As strange as it may seem, I just don't think Chris Peterson is leaving Boise State any time soon, especially not to the fishbowl that is Notre Dame.

[Cuckoo]

Ah, the Stoops to *insert team name* rumors again. Stoops said Cowherd's "sources" are absolutely wrong and he's not going anywhere. Yes, I'm biased, but wouldn't most consider Notre Dame a step down for Stoops?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

Ah, the Stoops to *insert team name* rumors again. Stoops said Cowherd's "sources" are absolutely wrong and he's not going anywhere. Yes, I'm biased, but wouldn't most consider Notre Dame a step down for Stoops?

No. OU is a great job, but Notre Dame is Notre Dame.

[Dr. Sak]

I wouldn't want to go to ND as a coach for all the tea in China.

[Cuckoo]

Originally Posted by Atocep

No. OU is a great job, but Notre Dame is Notre Dame.

But Oklahoma is Oklahoma. I guess I'm not seeing your point. Do you mean tradition or prestige? I don't have all the stats comparisons in front of me, but there aren't many programs that are above Oklahoma in that regard. And even if Notre Dame is historically, it's not by a large margin. Stoops has just about everything he can want here (talent, support, facilities, money, recruiting base).

[endemicFOF]

Notre Dame isn't going to attract the elite young hot-shot coaches that will dominate college football over the next 20 years due to the schools recruiting limitations.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

But Oklahoma is Oklahoma. I guess I'm not seeing your point. Do you mean tradition or prestige? I don't have all the stats comparisons in front of me, but there aren't many programs that are above Oklahoma in that regard. And even if Notre Dame is historically, it's not by a large margin. Stoops has just about everything he can want here (talent, support, facilities, money, recruiting base).

Like I said, OU is a great job, but the premiere job in college football at Notre Dame. It along with maybe USC are the only jobs I wouldn't laugh at if I heard a Bob Stoops rumor.

[Cuckoo]

I could see a USC or a place like Florida, thanks in large part to recruiting, and I would even worry about an Iowa or Ohio State due to his personal connections. But I just don't see Notre Dame at all. *shurg*

[molson]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I wouldn't want to go to ND as a coach for all the tea in China.

That's a lot of tea.

Edit: I wouldn't want the job either, unless I was guaranteed enough money to retire after I was fired, and I was happy with the idea of retirement.

The job is a career-killer.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And for fans to be entertained for a little while longer, kind of tough to leave out that part of the equation since they're the ones paying the money to see the games (and believe me, my wife is hoping against hope that Tennessee sneaks into the Peach Bowl so she'll have the opportunity).

I did say that fans of the teams may enjoy it. I'm not passionate about one team though, but I just don't get that excited to see my school hoisting a trophy of the Little Caesars guy over their head after beating a .500 school in a consolation game. Do schools put the Meineke Car Care Bowl trophy in the same case as they put conference championships and national titles?

[RainMaker]

Notre Dame has more national prestige, but that isn't a great thing. It just means more media attention and scrutiny. Stoops is having a down year at Oklahoma which would be cause for a crisis at Notre Dame.

If I'm Stoops, I stay. He makes millions a year at a school that loves him and has great job security. Unless he craves attention, I think he'd be crazy to leave what seems to be a dream job.

[RainMaker]

Jerry Glanville resigned at Portland State. Surprised he wasn't able to do more there. It's FCS and I'd imagine it'd be a little easier to recruit that talent with his resume. Sad way to end a career.

Jerry Glanville steps down as coach of Portland State Vikings - ESPN

[I. J. Reilly]

Originally Posted by Atocep

No. OU is a great job, but Notre Dame is Notre Dame.

Notre Dame hasn’t been Notre Dame since well before Michigan stopped being Michigan.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by I. J. Reilly

Notre Dame hasn’t been Notre Dame since well before Michigan stopped being Michigan.

Notre Dame will always be Notre Dame, regardless of how they're doing on the football field.

[Atocep]

I've had to defend Belichick and Notre Dame in consecutive days. I think it's time I take a break from here.

[dawgfan]

I doubt Stoops leaves Oklahoma, even if some extremist fans there are getting tired of him. But, I'd be surprised if he didn't manage to leverage supposed interest from Notre Dame into another raise and extension.

Brian Kelly seems like an obvious candidate, but the more I think about it, the more I wonder if Notre Dame will try hard to look elsewhere first. Bringing in Kelly means a significant shift in offensive philosophy - as we've seen at Michigan, that doesn't always go so smoothly. I would expect Notre Dame would take a good hard look at Jim Harbaugh - wouldn't be a major offensive shift.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Galaril

My ND wishlist is:
Kelly-Cincy
Stoops-Oklahoma
Petersen-Boise

My ND wishlist is:

Lynch-Indiana

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I doubt Stoops leaves Oklahoma, even if some extremist fans there are getting tired of him. But, I'd be surprised if he didn't manage to leverage supposed interest from Notre Dame into another raise and extension.

Brian Kelly seems like an obvious candidate, but the more I think about it, the more I wonder if Notre Dame will try hard to look elsewhere first. Bringing in Kelly means a significant shift in offensive philosophy - as we've seen at Michigan, that doesn't always go so smoothly. I would expect Notre Dame would take a good hard look at Jim Harbaugh - wouldn't be a major offensive shift.

I am willing to bet Harbaugh's off the field issues keep him off of Notre Dame's radar.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I doubt Stoops leaves Oklahoma, even if some extremist fans there are getting tired of him. But, I'd be surprised if he didn't manage to leverage supposed interest from Notre Dame into another raise and extension.

Brian Kelly seems like an obvious candidate, but the more I think about it, the more I wonder if Notre Dame will try hard to look elsewhere first. Bringing in Kelly means a significant shift in offensive philosophy - as we've seen at Michigan, that doesn't always go so smoothly. I would expect Notre Dame would take a good hard look at Jim Harbaugh - wouldn't be a major offensive shift.

I've been hearing the Rich Rodriguez's fate hasn't been decided yet and the possibility remains that he could be gone after the season as well. If that job opens up it'd be interesting see the fight over Brian Kelly and Harbaugh.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I've been hearing the Rich Rodriguez's fate hasn't been decided yet and the possibility remains that he could be gone after the season as well. If that job opens up it'd be interesting see the fight over Brian Kelly and Harbaugh.

RichRod will be back, unless he leaves on his own which I could entirely see being possible with all the shit he's had to take (some deserved, some not)

Brian Kelly won't get a shot here I don't think. At CMU there was a lot of behind the scenes stuff when his players were involved in murder and some things he said were not exactly endearing to a lot of people, which is why he didn't get the MSU job, let alone the Michigan gig.

Harbaugh might be an option but the rumor is he already has an extension done with Stanford that hasn't been announced, and I assume it'll come with a huge buyout for Michigan. So figure if RR was fired, and Harbaugh hired, it's 8-10 mil just paid in buyout related stuff.

Also, Harbaugh didn't do much to help his cause with the things he has said about UM in the past, and Gary Moeller was fired for being overly drunk at a bar, while Harbaugh has quite a history of DUI's and other alcohol related stuff.

Plus with Bill Martin staying as AD until Sept 2010, I just can't see any way he heads up another coach search when his replacement will come in at the start of the season.

[DeToxRox]

Dola, as far as RichRod goes, I do think he can win big at Michigan, but I think he's going to be forced into making moves on the defensive side of the ball (aka Gibby and Hopson) and letting Greg Robinson basically be the man, and I can see him not wanting to fire his BFF, or at least demote him.

Like I said above, the only way he gets fired is if they decide to hire David Brandon (Domino's CEO, former player under Bo) as the AD in the next month, which is possible. He could for sure collect the money to pay RichRod off and send him packing as the rumor is he is not a big RR fan.

I just don't see that being totally plausible though.

What could be plausible is RR getting fed up and just leaving. Half of me would detest him for it and half would applaud him because there is so much behind the scenes stuff going on from people who didn't want him to begin with that they're openly rooting for him to fail. It's a really fucked up situation.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

But Oklahoma is Oklahoma. I guess I'm not seeing your point. Do you mean tradition or prestige? I don't have all the stats comparisons in front of me, but there aren't many programs that are above Oklahoma in that regard. And even if Notre Dame is historically, it's not by a large margin. Stoops has just about everything he can want here (talent, support, facilities, money, recruiting base).

If you can win at Notre Dame it is a big step up from any school.

There is a reason why Notre Dame has it's own BCS rules, it's own TV contract and remains an independent. In terms of popularity they are a head above anyone else.

[Kodos]

They're no Brandon Jacobs.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Kodos

They're no Brandon Jacobs.

who is?

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I doubt Stoops leaves Oklahoma, even if some extremist fans there are getting tired of him. But, I'd be surprised if he didn't manage to leverage supposed interest from Notre Dame into another raise and extension.

Brian Kelly seems like an obvious candidate, but the more I think about it, the more I wonder if Notre Dame will try hard to look elsewhere first. Bringing in Kelly means a significant shift in offensive philosophy - as we've seen at Michigan, that doesn't always go so smoothly. I would expect Notre Dame would take a good hard look at Jim Harbaugh - wouldn't be a major offensive shift.

Agreed. I think Stoops "feeling underappreciated" is code for he wants another raise.

[path12]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Jerry Glanville resigned at Portland State. Surprised he wasn't able to do more there. It's FCS and I'd imagine it'd be a little easier to recruit that talent with his resume. Sad way to end a career.

Jerry Glanville steps down as coach of Portland State Vikings - ESPN

Eastern Washington played Portland State at Qwest a few weeks back and I went to the game (my stepson goes to Eastern).

Portland State was just horribly outgunned and it was a rout. I was shocked when I recognized it was Glanville on the sideline. That was a bad bad team.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It just feels like there are only a few teams who matter every season and they only play a few games that matter. You have over 100 teams and over a thousand games, but probably only 10 actually are worth tuning in for if you don't have a team you really care about.

That's where you lose me (and I suspect most fans in this thread). I can watch Ole Miss-South Carolina or Clemson-Virginia Tech on a Thursday night and enjoy the game regardless if I care about either team or it is likely to have an effect on the eventual national champion. I'm not saying I base my week around it, but I enjoy watching decent college football game X over almost any scripted TV or other sports (including non-Patriots NFL games).

Originally Posted by Galaril

Colin Cowherd reported that he had some personal sources close to Stoops in Oklahoma that Stoops is feeling un appreciated at Oklahoma after (in his mind) rebuilding the whole Oklahoma FB program. Also, recent criticism from Alumni has soured him at Oklahoma. I think Stoops could be a decent move.
Cowherd also noted that it appears the "wheels are already moving" in regards to replacing Charlie and they are noted waiting for UConn to start reaching out to Stoops. Apparently ND has reached out to Stoops at least in formally. As for Weis if he losses to UConn it is over regardlessof if they can beat Standford at Standford (no chance if they can't beat UConn./Navy @ home).I think unless ND wins there last 2 and the Bowl game against more than likely a superior to team Weis is gone no doubt.
My ND wishlist is:
Kelly-Cincy
Stoops-Oklahoma
Petersen-Boise

Yeah, it's not the first time Cowherd has said Weis is gone and put out a list of candidates (the other one he threw out this time was Ferentz, and that would be terrible) - e.g. he's guessing as much as anyone in this thread and I wouldn't put any stock into it.

Also, Peterson reportedly isn't going anywhere (children's health issues?) and I would be highly skeptical of a Boise coach after Dirk Koetter and Dan Hawkins. A much more likely up and comer would be Pat Fitzgerald from Northwestern.

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

Ah, the Stoops to *insert team name* rumors again. Stoops said Cowherd's "sources" are absolutely wrong and he's not going anywhere. Yes, I'm biased, but wouldn't most consider Notre Dame a step down for Stoops?

I wouldn't say step down, but certainly a lateral step. In some respects it is easier to build a program up than it is to maintain 10+ win seasons year after year, and some coaches always want a new challenge - short of the NFL, leaving for ND would be it. Some people say the same thing about Urban Meyer - he's never going to do as well at Florida as he has these past 3 years, so he might as well leave now before Tennessee/Georgia/Alabama/LSU/Arkansas are all back up on UF's level and conference championships are much more of a dogfight.

Originally Posted by endemicFOF

Notre Dame isn't going to attract the elite young hot-shot coaches that will dominate college football over the next 20 years due to the schools recruiting limitations.

This is absolutely untrue. ND may not pick the right one, or may avoid up-and-comers in favor of big-name "successful" coaches (ie go the Ferentz/previously Barry Alvarez route which would be a mistake imo), but I guarantee if ND comes offering $2.5m+ and financial security for life to any coach making ~500k they will jump at the offer.

Originally Posted by molson

I wouldn't want the job either, unless I was guaranteed enough money to retire after I was fired, and I was happy with the idea of retirement.

The job is a career-killer.

A) You are guaranteed retirement money. Figure 2m+ for at least 3 years and that's 6 million minimum.

B) How is it a career-killer? Lou Holtz, who came from the Big-10, was hired by an SEC team afterwards. Ty Willingham, who came from the PAC-10, was hired by a PAC-10 team. Bob Davie, who was a defensive coordinator, has had a cushy job at ESPN since. Charlie Weis, who came from an OC position, could easily find another one next season.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Bob Stoops is a moron if he doesn't stay at Oklahoma. End of discussion.

[Logan]

Bishop, you're probably right overall, but that dollar figure needs to be raised a lot. $2.5 million is not a ton of money to the most talented coaches these days.

[Dr. Sak]

I agree that Notre Dame would be a great job financially, and if you can win there you are set. But I feel the fans and alumni have unrealistic expectations for that program, and they are not patient at all.

[tarcone]

Stoops wont go anywhere. He has it made at OU. He can recruit however he wants without interference. I think at ND the education standards are too high to attract the type of player that Stoops would want.

Stoops has free reign now. Why would he leave?

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Fixed.

I'm still amazed at how good of an athlete he is after his injuries. The advances in treatment/surgery regarding sports injuries over the last 10-15 years are simply amazing.

LOL.. HELL NO!!!

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Logan

Bishop, you're probably right overall, but that dollar figure needs to be raised a lot. $2.5 million is not a ton of money to the most talented coaches these days.

The $2.5 million is a base if they go "cheap" with an up and comer. If they go after a Stoops or a Meyer I'm sure it'll easily be up in the $4-5 million range.

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I agree that Notre Dame would be a great job financially, and if you can win there you are set. But I feel the fans and alumni have unrealistic expectations for that program, and they are not patient at all.

I'm not really sure how much more unrealistic or impatient fans/alumni are than other places. I know Paterno had a couple down years and survived it, but he built the program and he was probably still 1 more bad year away from being asked to retire. OSU fans wanted John Cooper gone for not beating Mich/winning NC's, Michigan fans wanted Lloyd Carr gone for not winning NC's, and RichRod now after 2 seasons. Ron Zook at Florida, Alabama/LSU fans etc. People have mentioned Ferentz at Iowa as being on the hot seat past seasons and even early this year. Even Stoops at Oklahoma is getting backlash from parts of the fanbase, and Pete Carroll isn't far behind.

[tarcone]

Ferentz took a beating for playing for OT. As well he should.

Ferentz is the highest paid state employee in Iowa making $3million per year.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

That's where you lose me (and I suspect most fans in this thread). I can watch Ole Miss-South Carolina or Clemson-Virginia Tech on a Thursday night and enjoy the game regardless if I care about either team or it is likely to have an effect on the eventual national champion. I'm not saying I base my week around it, but I enjoy watching decent college football game X over almost any scripted TV or other sports (including non-Patriots NFL games).

There are a lot of people who watch football just because they love the sport. The teams don't really matter as long as it's a high level of good football. But the fact is that games that matter draw the biggest ratings. The conference championships and battles of highly ranked teams. Compare the ratings of Ole Miss - South Carolina to the SEC Championship in a few weeks.

If you had the choice of watching two 10-5 teams battle in Week 17 for a playoff spot or two 4-11 teams playing in the NFL, you'd take the first choice almost every time. In fact, if you're an NFL fan, you'd probably go out of your way to watch the game.

All I'm saying is that games that matter draw more interest. There aren't a lot of games that matter in college football.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

T
All I'm saying is that games that matter draw more interest. There aren't a lot of games that matter in college football.

I disagree 100% with your last statement. Each week each undefeated and 1 loss team fighting for that chance at the BCS title has a game that matters. You never know when a team like Florida, Alabama, Texas could slip up and throw things into chaos.

Right now we have 6 undefeated teams? Texas, Alabama, Florida, TCU, Cincinnati, and Boise State if I remember correctly. Every game is important to them because if they lose just one, they probably will not sniff the title game. Then you have the one loss teams right behind them waiting for a slip up. They want to look their best and play their best so that if the dominoes fall their way, they have a chance.

Look at the champions from the past few years, Florida had the chips fall their way and so did LSU when they won the title. So you're telling me that the games don't matter for them? What about Missouri or West Virginia who had their hopes crushed at the end of the season when it was all but certain they would make the title game. WVU lost to an unranked opponent that had no business being on the field with them.

See this is where I agree with the poster above about your status as a casual fan. If you followed the sport for long enough you'd understand that crazy things do happen and every game matters when you are in the chase for a title because if you let up, those rivalry games at the end of the year will bite you in the ass.

[Karlifornia]

Anyone who says OU is on par with ND is wrong. Oklahoma is a great program, but Notre Dame kind of transcends football.

[Swaggs]

I agree with everything Sak says and will add that most fans have a school (or sometimes schools) that they root for and watch every week, but most also closely follow their conference-mates and have a handful of teams that they actively root against, as well.

West Virginia fans, for example, largely follow and will watch other Big East teams and a large chunk will also watch and actively root against teams like Pitt, Virginia Tech (and, along with most Big East fans/alums, most ACC teams after the raid), Notre Dame, Penn State, and currently Michigan.

There is a ton of entertainment in being a college football fan. There is honestly a void in my life when the season ends.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

Anyone who says OU is on par with ND is wrong. Oklahoma is a great program, but Notre Dame kind of transcends football.

Agreed. If, for example, Texas decided to join the Big 10 as their 12th team, and the Big 12 folded, Oklahoma isn't getting their own major network deal. That pretty much says it all. Lots of programs like to think they are on the same level as Notre Dame, but if they were, they would be independents (with teams like USC, Michigan, etc. lining up to play them) and have their own sweetheart deals with NBC and the BCS.

It pains me to say, but that is pretty much all you need to say about the comparisons between Notre Dame and other programs.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

See this is where I agree with the poster above about your status as a casual fan. If you followed the sport for long enough you'd understand that crazy things do happen and every game matters when you are in the chase for a title because if you let up, those rivalry games at the end of the year will bite you in the ass.

And for a good number of people, every game matters when teams aren't in a title chase as well.

I'm not even really a diehard college football fan by Southern standards but I'm interested in not only the outcome of Good Clean Old Fashioned Hate, The Third Saturday in October, The Iron Bowl, and the World's Largest Outdoor Cocktail Party but also the The Egg Bowl, The Oldest Rivalry in the South, and the beer barrel that goes to the winner of the Border War. But outside of those, I've also got some degree of interest in The Apple Cup, The Big Game, The Backyard Brawl, and who gets The Golden Shillelagh and the Old Oaken Bucket.

And the outcome of every week's game has a bearing on the ramifications of each of those games and so forth.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I disagree 100% with your last statement. Each week each undefeated and 1 loss team fighting for that chance at the BCS title has a game that matters. You never know when a team like Florida, Alabama, Texas could slip up and throw things into chaos.

Right now we have 6 undefeated teams? Texas, Alabama, Florida, TCU, Cincinnati, and Boise State if I remember correctly. Every game is important to them because if they lose just one, they probably will not sniff the title game. Then you have the one loss teams right behind them waiting for a slip up. They want to look their best and play their best so that if the dominoes fall their way, they have a chance.

Look at the champions from the past few years, Florida had the chips fall their way and so did LSU when they won the title. So you're telling me that the games don't matter for them? What about Missouri or West Virginia who had their hopes crushed at the end of the season when it was all but certain they would make the title game. WVU lost to an unranked opponent that had no business being on the field with them.

See this is where I agree with the poster above about your status as a casual fan. If you followed the sport for long enough you'd understand that crazy things do happen and every game matters when you are in the chase for a title because if you let up, those rivalry games at the end of the year will bite you in the ass.

TCU and Boise State can't make the Championship game. Only about half of Florida's games are against teams that have a chance to beat them and I'd say that's even less for Texas this year.

But even if we take what you say about 6 teams having huge games every week, that's 6 out of 120 teams that have games that mean something.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

But even if we take what you say about 6 teams having huge games every week, that's 6 out of 120 teams that have games that mean something.

You are so jaded about the BCS that you can't see the forest through the trees. It is more than 6 games or 6 teams. Swaggs and Jon just mentioned a few cases.

And I would say you are wrong about TCU not making the title game. If Texas were to lose or Alabama/Florida lose then have the other lose in the SEC title game, they would get in.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

TCU and Boise State can't make the Championship game. Only about half of Florida's games are against teams that have a chance to beat them and I'd say that's even less for Texas this year.

I don't really disagree with your crusade to get TCU and Boise State a better shot at the championship game (although I don't have any desire for a playoff unless it is a plus 1), but your post is a terrible argument. I'd give a bottom quarter of the SEC or Big 12 team a better shot at pulling an upset than the bottom half of the WAC or MWC doing so.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

You are so jaded about the BCS that you can't see the forest through the trees. It is more than 6 games or 6 teams. Swaggs and Jon just mentioned a few cases.

And I would say you are wrong about TCU not making the title game. If Texas were to lose or Alabama/Florida lose then have the other lose in the SEC title game, they would get in.

And if Cincinnati lost. I'm also sure there would be some who would vote a one loss Alabama or Florida squad into the title game. Until a non-BCS makes it (or even comes close), I'm not convinced it can happen.

Swaggs and Jon mentioned cases for fans of specific teams. The average college football fan couldn't tell you who wins most of those rivalry games in a few weeks. The sheer fact that most don't even make it to national TV shows how little interest there is in them outside of the region.

I just don't find this season that exciting. We rarely get top 25 matchups. The biggest rivalries suck this year (you really excited to see Michigan-OSU?). And we're going into the home stretch and have the #1 team in the nation playing Florida International and the #2 team playing Chatanooga (not even an FBS school). The biggest media stories revolve around coaches and not players, teams, or games.

What are you really looking forward to seeing this weekend?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

You are so jaded about the BCS that you can't see the forest through the trees. It is more than 6 games or 6 teams. Swaggs and Jon just mentioned a few cases.

And I would say you are wrong about TCU not making the title game. If Texas were to lose or Alabama/Florida lose then have the other lose in the SEC title game, they would get in.

I don't buy all in on Rain's point, as I do enjoy college football to an extent even when it's a relatively meaningless game.

That said, I think this is part of the disconnect that bowl/BCS proponents don't see--there are people, fans, who aren't interested at all in the vast majority of the games and the reason is because of the pointlessness of the BCS to many of them.

You guys are arguing with Rain that he is wrong. What you should be doing is noticing that fans like Rain are out there, and their number is increasing, IMO, the more years the BCS rolls along acting like nothing's wrong.

For instance, I haven't watched a Big Ten game all year. No real reason to. No desire to. These games are played to lead to the championship of a conference I don't give a fig about, and the BCS hasn't given me a reason to suddenly start caring. And it all culminates in a bowl season where I watch at best 15 minutes on average of even major bowl games--and that's because it's the holidays and there's nothing better to do until Sunday.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I just don't find this season that exciting. We rarely get top 25 matchups. The biggest rivalries suck this year (you really excited to see Michigan-OSU?). And we're going into the home stretch and have the #1 team in the nation playing Florida International and the #2 team playing Chatanooga (not even an FBS school). The biggest media stories revolve around coaches and not players, teams, or games.

What are you really looking forward to seeing this weekend?

Cal and Stanford
Penn State and Michigan State (BCS Bid possibly on the line)
LSU and Ole Miss
BYU and Air Force
Oklahoma and Texas Tech
Oregon and Arizona (Oregon in the driver seat for Pac 10 title)

I'll probably find 3 or 4 other games that peak my interest flipping through also.

If all you care about is the national title and end result then you are missing a lot of good football in between. So Florida and Bama don't have great games this week but looking ahead to next week you have Florida/FSU and Bama/Auburn. Rivalry games where games are usually closer than expected.

Go enjoy the NFL game where playoff races are decided in Week 15 and teams rest their starters for the playoff run...wait that can't be because all the games matter right?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

If all you care about is the national title and end result then you are missing a lot of good football in between. So Florida and Bama don't have great games this week but looking ahead to next week you have Florida/FSU and Bama/Auburn. Rivalry games where games are usually closer than expected.

Go enjoy the NFL game where playoff races are decided in Week 15 and teams rest their starters for the playoff run...wait that can't be because all the games matter right?

And I think this is the sort of post that will always find me on the other side of the argument. There's a sort of arrogant "you don't get it, so you're not worth it" type of attitude in a post like this.

Right or wrong, it's not the type of approach that is conducive to convincing other people you're right.

[Chief Rum]

It cuts both ways, BTW. Plenty of people on the other side who sit there proclaiming they're right, the BCS is crap, we need playoffs, and everyone who doesn't buy into it is baloney.

Really, it's not anything specific to this argument but any argument on this board where there are entrenched philosophies on whatever the subject may be, and too often, the proponents of either side don't seem too open to trying to understand the perspective of the other (and I have done it plenty of times, too).

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

That said, I think this is part of the disconnect that bowl/BCS proponents don't see--there are people, fans, who aren't interested at all in the vast majority of the games and the reason is because of the pointlessness of the BCS to many of them.

You guys are arguing with Rain that he is wrong. What you should be doing is noticing that fans like Rain are out there, and their number is increasing, IMO, the more years the BCS rolls along acting like nothing's wrong.

For instance, I haven't watched a Big Ten game all year. No real reason to. No desire to. These games are played to lead to the championship of a conference I don't give a fig about, and the BCS hasn't given me a reason to suddenly start caring. And it all culminates in a bowl season where I watch at best 15 minutes on average of even major bowl games--and that's because it's the holidays and there's nothing better to do until Sunday.

Hey I understand your point and Rain's to want a playoff. I don't agree but I understand that you guys are out there, but to say there are no good games and they don't matter is a bit outrageous in my opinion. If I have learned anything from watching College Football it is to expect the unexpected when an underdog plays a highly ranked team.

And the other thing I have learned...is that I wouldn't bet that there will be a playoff anytime soon. It isn't happening.

Chief you are a UCLA fan, remember when they upset Miami earlier in the decade (or late 90s I'm getting old) and cost the Canes a chance at the title? Look at Pitt upsetting WVU, LSU getting to the title game and winning with 2 losses. Even for the teams not in the top 3-5, they play and feel like they have an outside shot.

Okay so you guys want a playoff, which is fine. So now we have 6 teams who under most playoff structures would have their spots sewn up. So what incentive do they have to play these last 2 weeks of the season? None. So that makes those games meaningless. So I can throw the meaningless game argument right back at you.