08-14-2009, 09:16 AM | #251 | |
Coordinator
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This all sounds like you believe that Allah exists. |
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08-14-2009, 09:18 AM | #252 |
Resident Alien
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08-14-2009, 09:29 AM | #253 |
Coordinator
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08-14-2009, 09:31 AM | #254 | |
Coordinator
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Location: Big Ten Country
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Seriously. The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe is just Christian preaching to kids, ffs! |
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08-14-2009, 09:31 AM | #255 |
Coordinator
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08-14-2009, 09:34 AM | #256 |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Jan 2007
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So I may be getting off topic by getting back on topic, but what the heck does it mean to say "Jesus is love." I would understand "Jesus is all about love," or "Jesus is pro-love," or even just "Jesus loves," but to give a one-to-one correlation with isjust confuses me. Is it just a rhetorical device, or does it mean something actually different than the other three examples I cited? And if anyone other than tarcone wants to answer this, please do as I haven't been able to follow a lot of what he's said in this thread.
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08-14-2009, 09:37 AM | #257 | |
Coordinator
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Jesus is now man, God, and an emotion. |
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08-14-2009, 09:47 AM | #258 |
College Starter
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08-14-2009, 09:48 AM | #259 |
College Starter
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Or was that Justin Timberlake?
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08-14-2009, 09:49 AM | #260 |
Resident Alien
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Oops!... I rose from the dead.
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08-14-2009, 10:10 AM | #261 | |
Pro Starter
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I guess it's just a question of semantics. However, according to the New Testament, when Jesus preached he taught about love above all things. Also, he died on the cross because of his love for humanity. I guess from those things it's a short walk from "Jesus is all about love" to "Jesus is love".
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She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! She loves you, yeah! how do you know? how do you know? |
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08-14-2009, 10:12 AM | #262 | |
Pro Starter
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Hey, I hear ya. I have problems with being referred to as a nut-job and a hypocrite but I'll take it.
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She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! She loves you, yeah! how do you know? how do you know? |
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08-14-2009, 10:12 AM | #263 | |
Coordinator
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Great excuse... |
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08-14-2009, 10:15 AM | #264 |
College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Wow...this got to 6 pages quickly.
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08-14-2009, 10:15 AM | #265 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sterling Heights, Mi
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This is all fine and dandy, unless your Gay. Then no one loves you.
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08-14-2009, 10:20 AM | #266 | |
Pro Starter
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Location: Not Delaware - hurray!
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I know you're having a good time and trying to bait here, so I'll take the bait. God loves all humans. He doesn't love homosexuals any less than others, but he does hate the sin. Just because others who proclaim to be Christians preach hatred towards others doesn't mean it's right.
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She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! She loves you, yeah! how do you know? how do you know? |
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08-14-2009, 10:21 AM | #267 |
Pro Rookie
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Aren't gay people some of the dandiest people we have?
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There's no I in Teamocil, at least not where you'd think |
08-14-2009, 10:24 AM | #268 | |
Death Herald
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Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
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Yeah, Usain Bolt really made us forget about him.
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Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint |
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08-14-2009, 10:24 AM | #269 | |
Head Coach
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Well, that depends. Schoolgirl plaid or french maid? And I prolly shouldn't have quoted you, it was more directed to the thread in general, not you in particular. |
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08-14-2009, 10:26 AM | #270 |
General Manager
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UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO |
08-14-2009, 10:27 AM | #271 | |
General Manager
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Quote:
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08-14-2009, 10:34 AM | #272 | |
General Manager
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Quote:
Everybody's a sinner, if I understand it correctly. Some have decided being gay is the worst sin and that gay people are evil, but no matter what you think of Christanity, that ain't Christanity. Jesus would say something about casting the first stone if you're so perfect. |
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08-14-2009, 10:36 AM | #273 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Jan 2006
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So the only God is YOUR God and anyone that worships another God is an unbeliever and needs to be prayed for? Yeah, ok.
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08-14-2009, 10:37 AM | #274 | |
General Manager
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Quote:
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08-14-2009, 10:40 AM | #275 | |
General Manager
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Not at all fair. Maybe the "people of faith" that make the most noise, that are covered by the news, but certainly not people of faith in general. The Lutheran religion has gay pastors for cying out loud. They vary in the degree of openesses, but I went to church for 20 years, across 3-5 churches, and I never once heard an anti-gay comment. It was a sin no worse and no less forgiveable than other sexual indescretions. Last edited by molson : 08-14-2009 at 10:41 AM. |
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08-14-2009, 10:42 AM | #276 |
General Manager
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So you're saying that Christianity in this country is by in large supportive of homosexuality? That the anger towards them must be coming from those bigoted Atheists. That all the major Christian groups that oppose it and speak out against it are on the fringe.
Last edited by RainMaker : 08-14-2009 at 10:44 AM. |
08-14-2009, 10:42 AM | #277 | |
College Benchwarmer
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I agree with you 100% here, and yes I was trying to stir up trouble. I am not gay, but I do understand many of their group causes. I always believed that God and Jesus accepts all, forgives all, and loves all...... Unfortunately, many of Jesus' followers, would rather pull out passages from the Old Testament (Leviticus 20:13) in this situation. |
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08-14-2009, 10:54 AM | #278 | |
Coordinator
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08-14-2009, 10:56 AM | #279 | |
General Manager
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All I can tell you is that I spent years going to church, I'm the son of a Lutheran pastor, the nephew of another Luthern pastor, a friend of several other pastors, have been to several protestan churches, and I've never witnessed this gay bashing that you claim everyone of faith has. Including at the churches themselves, or in the homes of the members of the church and church leaders. Maybe my experience is unique and every other church in the world except the one I grew up in wants to kill gay people. I don't want to get in another tiring discussion of how big the fringe is, I have no idea, and neither do you. I wouldn't go to a church where the sermon ranted about gay people, so it just doesn't matter. The size of the fringe has no relevance on what I'm saying here. You have all these ideas about how evil and stupid religious people are, and I just don't find that anyone you rant about is true with regard to my own experience. Like I said, maybe I'm unique, but it's tiring to hear you generalize and insult people that I know as good, intelligent, caring, and charitable. Last edited by molson : 08-14-2009 at 11:06 AM. |
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08-14-2009, 10:59 AM | #280 | |
Coordinator
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I love the gay people! I'm just not gay... |
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08-14-2009, 11:02 AM | #281 |
Bonafide Seminole Fan
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Location: Miami
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What if you're gay for Jesus?
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Subby's favorite woman hater. |
08-14-2009, 11:09 AM | #282 | |
General Manager
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Saying that the major Christian groups in this country have been vehemently opposed to many gay rights is not "an idea I have". It's a fact. I can name you all the top ones that pushed hard against the proposition in California as well as others throughout the country. Top religious leaders in this country have spoken out against homosexuality as well as blamed them for disasters such as Katrina and 9/11. I don't have an idea of anything. You are the one who tries to play revisionist history. All you have to say is "yeah, there are a lot of people in the Christian movement who are bigots. I'm not one of them and the people I grew up with are not either". You're trying to portray Christians as having no role in bigotry toward homosexuals in this country when in fact they are the largest group opposing any progress on that front. That doesn't mean they are all bigots, but many of them are. |
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08-14-2009, 11:10 AM | #283 |
Bounty Hunter
Join Date: Oct 2000
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WOW HAVEN'T HEARD ANY OF THIS STUFF EVER ON THE INTERNET BEFORE
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No, I am not Batman, and I will not repair your food processor. |
08-14-2009, 11:12 AM | #284 | |
General Manager
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Where did I say that? Seriously, did you read my post? I SPECIFICALLY limited my observation to my experience, and refused to get in a debate with you about the size of the fringe. I'm not a part of the fringe, you're not a part of fringe, so it's not a relevant part of the discussion. I wasn't speaking about the fringe or what they do. I was speaking about myself. You made rainmaker-syle generalizations about a group, and I pointed out that my experiences were different. You're absolutely a bigot, blinded by hate. You're absolutely as bad as any gay-basher. To you, I'm "one of those people", defending a fringe, when I specifically didn't. You can't tell the difference because you're so overwhelmed by hate. My experience growing up in church was very positive. There wasn't any hate. It's too bad there's hate other places. I don't support it, I'm not responsible for it, I don't participate in it. Last edited by molson : 08-14-2009 at 11:18 AM. |
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08-14-2009, 11:12 AM | #285 |
General Manager
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08-14-2009, 11:16 AM | #286 |
High School Varsity
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Location: Lowcountry, SC
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Pumpy schtick is kinda fun to say.
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08-14-2009, 11:17 AM | #287 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
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If Bin Laden found Jesus, could we still kill him?
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08-14-2009, 11:19 AM | #288 | |
General Manager
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Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
I am a bigot for pointing out that religious groups have been heavily behind gay bigotry in this country. I am a bigot for pointing out that religious groups heavily supported Prop 8 and put a lot of money into ensuring it wouldn't pass. I also feel that the KKK is a bad organization that is racist, so I'm guessing by your standards I'm a racist as well. |
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08-14-2009, 11:19 AM | #289 |
Bounty Hunter
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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guess i'm done here
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No, I am not Batman, and I will not repair your food processor. |
08-14-2009, 11:26 AM | #290 | |
SI Games
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Melbourne, FL
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Quote:
I think this sort of thing varies hugely from area to area and also church to church. In Europe Christianity has been 'losing ground' for years and has become very flexible with regards to what some other areas would consider very poor behaviour - ie. female and gay clergy, clergy who admit they don't believe in God etc. This is basically Christianity taking a similar approach in the modern day to what it did during the earlier church - that is realising that to survive and flourish it needs to integrate within the society it finds itself. In early days this was by adopting pagan festivals and rituals within the church itself (hence Easter, celebrating Jesus's birthday etc.) even the medieval representation of the Devil was a means to subvert religions which had a prior hold on the populace. Today the approach taken is for the church to become more accepting of certain aspects where society itself has changed (ie. in earlier times religions saw 'gay' people as bad because having kids was vital to your race prospering, today thats not an issue. Again in earlier times women were treated lesser to men, hence no women priests - again today this isn't the case). Now whether you believe its right or wrong for a religion to adapt and change is a personal take - I personally think its fine for them to do so, after all if people are honest about it there isn't one perfect christian in the world today all of them pick and choose the aspects of the bible they believe are acceptable and follow them, ignoring he more suspect or conflicting ones. |
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08-14-2009, 11:29 AM | #291 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
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You speak in these insanely broad strokes. You do it in every single thread I read where you are involved. You judge everything based upon what you see in the media especially. Here's my viewpoint on homosexuality and I believe of the vast majority of Christians... Being gay is a sin toward God. I am not the judge that will condemn this person because I am not without sin. I don't believe they should be afforded marriage sacraments but believe they should receive protection under United States Law. The problem is, that simply doesn't sell in today's media. Last edited by rowech : 08-14-2009 at 11:30 AM. |
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08-14-2009, 11:31 AM | #292 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwest
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Well I love Jesus too. It's those ignorant souls that take things too literal that I question. |
08-14-2009, 11:36 AM | #293 | |
General Manager
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Location: The Mountains
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Quote:
That actually sums up pretty well why you're a bigot. You view "religion", like the "KKK", as one people, having one opinion, that you've grouped together to feel superior to. You assign undesirable traits to an entire group of people to invalidate them, and disregard their individual characteristics, EVEN when the individuals express contrary opinions to those that you've labeled them with. When I expressed specific disagreement with your labeling, you accused me of defending those with the undesirable trait! Last edited by molson : 08-14-2009 at 11:38 AM. |
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08-14-2009, 11:39 AM | #294 | |
General Manager
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Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
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08-14-2009, 11:40 AM | #295 | ||
Coordinator
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Location: The Great Northwest
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Let's do a little translation experiment and see what we come up with from the original post. Because regardless of translation the end result should be true... according to those that are in the know...
Quote:
Now I've translated it from English to Arabic to Hebrew to French and then lastly back to English Quote:
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Los Angeles Dodgers Check out the FOFC Groups on Facebook! and Reddit! DON'T REPORT ME BRO! Last edited by DanGarion : 08-14-2009 at 11:43 AM. |
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08-14-2009, 11:44 AM | #296 | |
SI Games
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Quote:
But in his defense a religion is a group of people who share largely the same beliefs and tenets. If I indicate I'm a Brighton Soccer fan then people will expect me to act like one, ie. cheer for that team during matches, if I don't follow those actions then they will doubt I am one. For instance many people would debate whether I'm a Christian despite me considering myself one - why you ask? .... because I don't believe the bible is the word of God, I think its a book which has some very good stuff in it, but its also heavily political propoganda and lifestyle advice for people who lived thousands of years ago and imho definitely not written by God. That difference of opinion would be enough to get me strange looks at the very least from a lot of Christian church goers in Florida (in England not so much, heck clergy in England sometimes admit they don't believe in God ). Now if that stance makes you consider me 'not a christian' then perhaps 'rainmaker' views you in a similar manner to how you view me because your viewpoint on other 'Christian' matters doesn't correspond closely enough to the mainstream 'common' christian viewpoint. (ie. I don't think he's being biggotted, he's just indicating that the majority of christian churches appear to have a problem with homosexuals and has given evidence as to why he believes this is the care - all of which appears to have been done fairly reasonably imho) |
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08-14-2009, 11:47 AM | #297 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Because my views don't agree with yours? Do I have hatred or intolerance in any of my views? No. Do I believe marriage is a Religious sacrament given to God for a man and a woman? Yes. Do I belive homosexuals should be allowed to have common rights under the eyes of the United Stats Constitution? Yes. You may not agree with my views but they are hardly bigoted. |
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08-14-2009, 11:49 AM | #298 |
Hall Of Famer
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Just wanted to join in the clusterfuck.
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08-14-2009, 11:49 AM | #299 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
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Quote:
Fair enough, but there's different religions, different sub-sets of those religions, and the individuals involved have different opinions too. It's a much broader group than "Brighton Soccer fan" Maybe I should just ignore it and not care. The problem I run into on this board is I'm someone who grew up with religion and had a great experience with it - yet I'm not anti-gay and I have no problem with gay marriage. I'm conservative poltically - but I'm not a religious fundamentalist and I don't want morality to be legislated. So when people bash religion and conservatives on the whole for traits that I don't have (which is pretty much constant here), it's annoying. When people only want to talk about those groups in the terms of their worst traits, I feel attacked. It's like my combination of thoughts/opinions in invalidated - they're not compatable with each other. Last edited by molson : 08-14-2009 at 11:52 AM. |
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08-14-2009, 11:50 AM | #300 | |
General Manager
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Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
I never said every Christian was a bigot. I said that a large part of the movement was and heavily supported anti-gay legislation throughout the country. No different than saying a large percent of the black population is below the poverty line. If you disagree with the statement, than fine. But stating that Christians in this country for the most part oppose gay rights is no different than saying young people in this country for the most part support Obama. |
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