So why exactly was MJ4H boxed?

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

This is another push toward communism, not only in the USA but at FOFC.

I wish we moved towards socialism where 5% of the posts over 2500 are distribution to those with less posts.

[Fidatelo]

Some thoughts:

- The poker thread was pretty ridiculous, but so are a few other threads on here.

- Wade Moore clearly has no understanding of internet filters, but his technological ignorance and clearly uptight hall monitor attitude aren't really out of line for what I'd expect from a message board moderator. His lame attempts at defending what was clearly a moral/personal decision by claiming otherwise are the more comical and frustrating things to me.

- SkyDork's deletion of the thread may have been heavy-handed and inconsistent with forum rules, but the boxing is the obvious "fuck you I'm Keith Hernandez" decision. But when it comes to SkyDork, we should all know this by now. He is who we thought he is.

- MJ4H should have known what was coming when he tried to pull the end-around (and maybe he did). That said, if someone finds a way to comply with 'the law' and still get their way, that shouldn't give 'the police' the right to lock them up just because it shows them up. Then again, see my comment on SkyDork above.

- The overall modding of this board is pretty good, but I agree with many who get frustrated at the inability of the mods to ever admit they were wrong and/or made a decision for the wrong reason. I loathe people who are so small that they cannot admit their mistakes or see the other side of a debate.

- We do not want the OS mods to take over this board. 10% of us would be banned within a week. From what I've seen, those clowns are far more PC than any of the people here, and are likely just as uppity when it comes to questioning of their authority.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I think I've seen this thread before. Usually in one of the cop threads. And the same people who think it's okay to talk back to a cop are the same ones up in arms over MJ4H being boxed. There's a life lesson here: talk back to the folks in authority at your own peril. There are better ways of handling a problem.

Somewhere along the way I think you missed the entirety of this situation.

[Izulde]

I do think the original thread deletion was complete bullshit.

However, I could see where the response may have fallen under the asshat clause. I say may because I wasn't here for any of it.

Overall, a bad decision by the mods, but probably not the worst one they've ever made.

[Dr. Sak]

YES! I have been waiting 6 pages for Fidatelo to come on and say SKYDORK!

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by molson

The high and mighty act sheds a lot of light on the mod decisions.

"Good" for who? The mods, nobody else. That proves the point. It's not even an articulable policy.

I gotta give this a +1. That came off as elitist.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Everyone is willing to bitch about mod decisions but no one is willing to acknowledge that the board is generally a really good place to visit and rarely devolves into the kind of antics most boards see. I think the results are worth putting up with the occasional mod insanity (and I've really only run across one when a mod changed a title of a thread because some folks didn't agree with the politics in it...)

I gotta +1 this too.

But that doesn't mean we should just sit down and accept the occasional mod insanity quietly.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Subby

Wade means well - I just think there is a breakdown when he tries to explain himself. He gets flustered when people start attacking him.

Ben, on the other hand, doesn't really care whether you live or die.

I enjoy this post.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I'm going to post a thread with nothing but pictures of a barely-dressed Kathy Griffin. I took the pictures myself while I was hiding in her bushes.

Stop being cunty.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

YES! I have been waiting 6 pages for Fidatelo to come on and say SKYDORK!

I aim to please!

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Stop being cunty.

I'll just PM the Kathy Griffin pics to you first...

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Wade did explain: he posted questionable pics, they were removed, and he acted like an asshat behind the scenes to the mods. Much of the asshattery was in private to the mods and Wade does not want to air that dirty laundry. Seemed like a pretty clear explanation to me, but people always want to delve deeper.

+1

seems like being an asshat was the reason

[Toddzilla]

FWIW, If the original warning to MJ4H was "Don't put pictures of hot chicks in your threads," then by taking the pics offline and linking them elsewhere, he did what he was told, and if the Mod really meant "Don't have links to pictures of hot chicks in your threads," then they should have said so in the first place.

However, no one knows what the reason for the boxing was, it's all speculation, so fuck it, move on.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by molson

RE: "This being a good board"

I agree, but credit for that shouldn't go to the mods. It's irritating when that's used as justification for mod asshats.

Those of us who can browse this board at work while not being able to browse others disagree with you.

The right decision might or might not have been made here, but one little time ban isn't going to hurt any poster or this board. Especially when bans are given out so rarely on this board compared to any board of its kind. (The kind being a board that can have adult humor and be work safe.)

[RedKingGold]

molson just wishes he was a mod asshat.

DREAM BIG!

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I think I've seen this thread before. Usually in one of the cop threads. And the same people who think it's okay to talk back to a cop are the same ones up in arms over MJ4H being boxed. There's a life lesson here: talk back to the folks in authority at your own peril. There are better ways of handling a problem.

The argument isn't that it's okay to talk back to a cop, just that it is understandable given what they were going through.

And the argument here isn't even about the talking back to wade or ben part. It's about the initial deletion of the thread, which happened before MJ4H talked back to any of the mods.

[Mustang]

[molson]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

FWIW, If the original warning to MJ4H was "Don't put pictures of hot chicks in your threads," then by taking the pics offline and linking them elsewhere, he did what he was told, and if the Mod really meant "Don't have links to pictures of hot chicks in your threads," then they should have said so in the first place.

However, no one knows what the reason for the boxing was, it's all speculation, so fuck it, move on.

I had a job for a while that didn't let me look at FOFC at work. The solution to that was not looking at FOFC at work.

I didn't realize I had the option to change the entire message board in order to make my own situation more convenient. The thought didn't cross my mind. What right would I have to expand my employer's internet policy to everyone here?

[Subby]

Originally Posted by molson

I didn't realize I had the option to change the entire message board in order to make my own situation more convenient. The thought didn't cross my mind. What right would I have to expand my employer's internet policy to everyone here?

This has been a pretty long standing policy at FOFC. I don't think wade was doing anything new. We want people to be able to read FOFC at work, so we try and limit the number of obvious hot chick pics that come up.

Wade was using his situation as an example in his kind of painful attempt to explain his actions. The reality is, numerous members of the community benefit from this policy.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by molson

I had a job for a while that didn't let me look at FOFC at work. The solution to that was not looking at FOFC at work.

I didn't realize I had the option to change the entire message board in order to make my own situation more convenient. The thought didn't cross my mind. What right would I have to expand my employer's internet policy to everyone here?

I remember Ben coming on awhile back and saying that the vast majority of the site's traffic comes during the workday, so the rules in place are in effect to make sure that level of activity can remain.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Subby

This has been a pretty long standing policy at FOFC. I don't think wade was doing anything new. We want people to be able to read FOFC at work, so we try and limit the number of obvious hot chick pics that come up.

Wade was using his situation as an example in his kind of painful attempt to explain his actions. The reality is, numerous members of the community benefit from this policy.

FTR, wade didn't "do" anything that any member of this board - mod or otherwise - isn't already free to do. He reported something that he thought was inappropriate for this board. AFAIK, he didn't act as mod in this situation. He reported something directly to Ben, and Ben decided to take action. So people can take issue with wade as a member of this community reporting something that they disagree with having been reported, but he didn't act as mod here. And that was what lead to the original action. What got MJ4H boxed, wade appears to have had nothing to do with at all. AFAICT, that was solely between Ben and MJ4H.

[larrymcg421]

I don't have a problem with ensuring it is work friendly. My problem is with the inconsistencies. And inconsistencies are aproblem when people try to figure out how to conduct themselves on the board.

I find it patently ridiculous to argue that the stuff in MJ4H's thread will set off work filters, but the child molester thread would not.

[molson]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I find it patently ridiculous to argue that the stuff in MJ4H's thread will set off work filters, but the child molester thread would not.

Edited for reconsideration.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

AFAIK, he didn't act as mod in this situation.

Not directly, but c'mon, if some random poster complains about youtube videos or the child molester thread, are those threads automatically deleted?

[Subby]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I find it patently ridiculous to argue that the stuff in MJ4H's thread will set off work filters, but the child molester thread would not.

I think what sets off filters the most is the word "football" in the web site name. I think most of the stuff in the chid molester thread is just news articles.

I think a bigger danger than setting off filters is having someone browsing a thread and having some woman with big chesticles pop up. You just have to nip that stuff in the bud so I don't have a problem with wade reporting it and Ben taking action.

If you want hot chicks with your poker, go to 2+2 - that place is a frickin' gold mine.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Logan

I remember Ben coming on awhile back and saying that the vast majority of the site's traffic comes during the workday, so the rules in place are in effect to make sure that level of activity can remain.

And this would be perfectly acceptable IF they were actually enforced across the entire board. But they aren't. There are any number of threads with the same or worse level of imagery in them.

This is the crux of the problem, if the mods want to do a half assed job that's their prerogative, but they also have to expect to get their asses called out when they do.

As I smart-assedly stated earlier, if Matt's thread was a problem then every single other thread that has similar (read pictures of women) in them MUST go too. Otherwise Wades actions are just so much personal bullshit being tossed around because he thinks he can.

[path12]

Originally Posted by wade moore

What I'm specifically referring to is that no good comes of attempting to discuss a mod decision with you people.

"You people"?

Really?

[flounder]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Kuni: Ahhh, a red snapper. Mmmmm, very tasty. Okay, Weaver, listen carefully. You can hold on to your red snapper...
{Hiro-San emerges, carrying a table with a box}
Kuni: ...or you can go for what's in the box that Hiro-San is bringing down the aisle right now! What's it gonna be?
{Phyllis Weaver has difficulty in choosing as the audience point to the box}
Phyllis Weaver: I'll take the box. The box!
{applause}
Kuni: You took the box? Let's see what's in the box!
{Hiro-san opens the box; the audience gasps. There is a silence}
Kuni: Nothing! Absolutely nothing! STUPID! You're so STU-PIIIIIIIIIIID!

SI

This post didn't get enough love.

[dolfin]

Originally Posted by Subby

I think a bigger danger than setting off filters is having someone browsing a thread and having some woman with big chesticles pop up.

I don't disagree, but the thread in question could be read without ever seeing anything. The pics were in spoiler tags and were clearly identified in the thread. If you don't want to see them, don't press the button.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by molson

Not directly, but c'mon, if some random poster complains about youtube videos or the child molester thread, are those threads automatically deleted?

Knowing Ben, he puts credence in length of time here and quality of posts/contributions to this site. So, based on that, I'd say anyone - mods included - who falls into that category and complains about something would likely get more attention from Ben than a newbie or an occasional poster who contributes little around here. I could be wrong, but I don't think Ben would just implement some action that anyone, including a mod, suggested. In fact, knowing the way wade and I and a couple of others have handled other situations, the most we've done is give our opinion/vote on action to be taken, when asked. I can't say I've ever seen a mod tell Ben what he should do or demand that he take certain action.

[JediKooter]

Welcome to Hollywood!

[panerd]

I saw this thread this morning and it was at like 65 posts and when I came back to my desk later it was at 250+. So I rubbed my hands together hoping for something good. Very blah discussion. I give it a 2/10.

I will check back later hoping that the pictures make an appearance. That is what I am interested in.

[Tigercat]

I must miss all the inconsistencies being talked about here. This board has barely any woman eye candy for a majority adult male message board. I would say such pictures are quite, quite rare on this board, and usually only done in legit hot or not threads. (Of which there have been none in a while.) Bikini pictures themselves are an extreme rarity.

If a boss of mine walked behind me and saw a mug shot of a 30 year old female teacher in regular dress he/she would think nothing about it. Now if he/she saw bikini pictures...

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by path12

"You people"?

Really?

It's typical for Wade to talk down to people. If you don't think the way he does, he forces it upon you, or reiterates something 100 times till you just give up.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

I must miss all the inconsistencies being talked about here. This board has barely any woman eye candy for a majority adult male message board. I would say such pictures are quite, quite rare on this board, and usually only done in legit hot or not threads. (Of which there have been none in a while.) Bikini pictures themselves are an extreme rarity.

If a boss of mine walked behind me and saw a mug shot of a 30 year old female teacher in regular dress he/she would think nothing about it. Now if he/she saw bikini pictures...

I'm not talking about the pictures in that thread.

I would probably be in trouble if my boss saw the bikini pictures, but if my boss saw that I was looking at something that had the words "child molester" in it, then I imagine I'd be asked to leave the premises immediately.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I'm not talking about the pictures in that thread.

I would probably be in trouble if my boss saw the bikini pictures, but if my boss saw that I was looking at something that had the words "child molester" in it, then I imagine I'd be asked to leave the premises immediately.

Are you serious? I can only guess, but I would imagine that illegal/immoral/ect material such as child pornography would not be labeled "child molester." That just seems like common sense? But what do I know.

Child molester is the type of term you would see in a CNN story, of which that thread is full of and built on. Would your boss ask you to leave the premesis for looking at any bad news, such as a story about murder? Does your boss only tolerate news stories on the latest Harry Potter movie or what is happening with Kate and Jon?

Now if you are arguing that many bosses wouldn't condone the tone of that thread, I agree. But that goes for the tone of 90% of things said on any off-topic message board. Who surfs carelessly enough that there boss can actually read what is being said?

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Tigercat, you're skipping over the fact that the offensive images were placed behind spoiler tags, making the viewing of them a conscious choice and the "boss over your shoulder" hypothetical a risk you choose to run if you choose to view them.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Are you serious? I can only guess, but I would imagine that illegal/immoral/ect material such as child pornography would not be labeled "child molester." That just seems like common sense? But what do I know.

Child molester is the type of term you would see in a CNN story, of which that thread is full of and built on. Would your boss ask you to leave the premesis for looking at any bad news, such as a story about murder? Does your boss only tolerate news stories on the latest Harry Potter movie or what is happening with Kate and Jon?

Well not just the words themselves, but if they saw that, then they might be curious about what I'm reading, and if they saw the full title of the thread, then I could see it as a problem, a much bigger problem than the bikinis because it could be considered downright offensive as opposed to inappropriate.

Now if you are arguing that many bosses wouldn't condone the tone of that thread, I agree. But that goes for the tone of 90% of things said on any off-topic message board. Who surfs carelessly enough that there boss can actually read what is being said?

If you're surfing at work and don't think your boss has a way to see what you're surfing apart from looking over your shoulder, then I'd say you are hopelessly naive.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Tigercat, you're skipping over the fact that the offensive images were placed behind spoiler tags, making the viewing of them a conscious choice and the "boss over your shoulder" hypothetical a risk you choose to run if you choose to view them.

Oh, I don't doubt the decision was questionable. But so was the decision to randomly post those pictures.

It seems quite a bit much to say that the board is being moderated unevenly or to make a big case out of one temporary bannage just because the mods ruled negatively on this questionable decision. Its not like MJ4H has been permanently banned and struck from our memories over this.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

If you're surfing at work and don't think your boss has a way to see what you're surfing apart from looking over your shoulder, then I'd say you are hopelessly naive.

Well mine doesn't, because I know more about my computer systems than anyone above me. Corporate sets the filters through our networks, but apart from that...

If I worked in a workplace where regular remote monitoring was the reality or a good possibility, I probably wouldn't surf at all. That's just me though.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by cartman

I see RendeR and Wade as two sides of the same coin. They both post to make their point, and both keep on posting the same thing over and over and cause people to no longer support their point.

More so to RendeR then Wade who more often then not is cool.

[kcchief19]

Just two cents ... take it for what it is.

First, with due respect to the mods for their time and effort, it is the posters who regulate this board, not the mods. If we had 100 morons posting here with no goal but to wreck havoc across the board, no moderation would be able to stop it.

Second, there have been plenty of boxings around here in the past and present that were personal, not because the mod felt attacked but because the mod felt questioned or disrespected. Maybe MJ4H was disrespecting the moderation but maybe he was simply trying to comply with the moderation. If you can't judge intent, you shouldn't punish it.

Third, any defense of a boxing or editing made here with the logic that it's to avoid getting FOFC "filtered" shows a complete lack of understanding of how filters work. Any filter that blocks Twitter will block FOFC. As for images, the text at FOFC is a million times worse. The profanity on this board alone is more troubling for filters than links to Twitter or Photobucket.

That said, back to the nonsense that won't change anyone's mind. Oh wait.

[Ryan S]

I can't quite believe that we have hit almost 300 posts arguing about this.

FOFC has always had fairly easy going moderation, and compared to many other web forums it is extremely rare to see a post being removed.

[thesloppy]

There comes a time....
when we close a certain thread
and the board will come together as one.
There were posts deleted,
and we lost some pics of nearly naked chicks
The greatest gift of all.

We can't go on
Pretending thread by thread,
That someone, somewhere will soon make a change
We are all a part of the FOFC family
and the funny, and the cocky is all we need.

{chorus}
We are the mods
You people are children
We are the ones who make a better board
So quit your bitching
It's a choice we're making
We're drawing our own lines
It's true we'll make a better board
Just shut your trap

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ryan S

I can't quite believe that we have hit almost 300 posts arguing about this.

FOFC has always had fairly easy going moderation, and compared to many other web forums it is extremely rare to see a post being removed.

There were times in the past where you used to lay out the reasons for various suspensions, including timelines.

When there's no info, people are going to wildly speculate, and guess about what kind of conduct is acceptable or not, and why exactly a contributor to FOFC is apparently gone forever.

It all just seems completely random, arbitrary, and personality-driven now, and I'm at loss as to how the mods can't comprehend that reaction that that creates.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

There comes a time....
when we close a certain thread
and the board will come together as one.
There were posts deleted,
and we lost some pics of nearly naked chicks
The greatest gift of all.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Noop

More so to RendeR then Wade who more often then not fails to show me for the douchebag that I am.

Fixed that for you, keep your personal issues with me in your own threads.

[gkb]

Originally Posted by Subby

Ben, on the other hand, doesn't really care whether you live or die.

Ben scares me, but not in the sexy, forbidden-fruit kinda way that Pumpy scares me.

[RendeR]

Pumpy is all about the happy sexy...

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

{shrugs} I'm not seeing a big problem here.

WTF hot chick pics had to do with a poker dynasty escapes me (well, not entirely, trying to drum up hits I guess, but generally speaking the two aren't directly related).

And reposting them under the circumstances he describes himself seems like no less than a 50-50 bet to get boxed, not completely predictable but not exactly shocking either.

edit to add: The other point that seems to be missed in this thread is that the owner of the forum can pretty much do whatever the hell he wants. Sometimes that concept gets obscured over time I think, but this isn't a democracy and ultimately nobody owes any of us jack shit in the way of explanations.

Unbelievably I agree with Jon. Im now going to go kill myself.