Sources: Goodell determines Pats broke rules by taping Jets' signals

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by molson

None of them have said there shouldn't be a punishment.

Yeah, but I've seen at least two people speculate that all of this was just Belichick trying to help out the league by calling attention to the problem.

He's a hero, you know.

[Kodos]

Although they have said there should be a minimal penalty (like a third round pick matters).

[molson]

Originally Posted by Noop

Well from what I gather they/you feel like the Patriots don't deserve the harsh punishment that may come down.

Not me, I think they screwed up big time. I wouldn't be against any punishment the NFL gave, short of forfieture.

I'm pissed at the Pats for doing this, for tainting what might be a great season.

I only got riled up later in the thread, once it the topic turned (as it always does) to how Pats fans are assholes.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by VPI97

Yeah, but I've seen at least two people speculate that all of this was just Belichick trying to help out the league by calling attention to the problem.

He's a hero, you know.

A hero who apparently cheats in both his private and public life.

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by molson

It's facinating how people can know so much about a large, eclectic group of fans.

That's my biggest pet peeve in all this.

Originally Posted by molson

everyone calls us assholes

.

[molson]

Originally Posted by VPI97

Yeah, but I've seen at least two people speculate that all of this was just Belichick trying to help out the league by calling attention to the problem.

He's a hero, you know.

So what? I've seen MORE than two people say the Pats should lose their franchise over this.

There's loonies on every side. It doesn't say anything about the rest of us.

[Kodos]

Having moved to CT in the last year, I can verify how annoying Pats fans are. And by extension, Red Sox fans. My stepfather-in-law is a big enough homer that he almost makes me root for the Yankees when they play Boston. And I think the Yankees are one of the most vile teams in all of sport.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by molson

So what? I've seen MORE than two people say the Pats should lose their franchise over this.

There's loonies on every side. It doesn't say anything about the rest of us.

In this thread? I must have missed that.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Although they have said there should be a minimal penalty (like a third round pick matters).

there's no pleasing everyone lined up to take down NE. if it's a third and a 5th then it should have been more. if it's fines then it should have been picks. if it's a suspension it should be a forfeit.

really the only thing that would satisfy a lot of people would be castration

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I think you gather incorrectly. The ones clamoring for beheadings and forfeits are the funny ones.

Originally Posted by molson

So what? I've seen MORE than two people say the Pats should lose their franchise over this.

There's loonies on every side. It doesn't say anything about the rest of us.

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

In this thread? I must have missed that.

yes yes.

This is what is driving me CRAZY in this thread. Let's talk about it amongst the people here, continually bringing up what loonies on other message boards are saying in your arguments is getting way old and way obnoxious.

[Kodos]

I think it should be a high fine and picks.

[molson]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

In this thread? I must have missed that.

I didn't mean this thread, though I don't recall seeing Bellichick called a hero either, so I thought you were talking about the world/internet as a whole. I was just making a point of how silly it is to do that.

All I know is that I was a loyal fan for a shitty team for over a decade. Then they got good. Only then did I feel the need to defend myself for rooting for them. It's been a facinating transition.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

there's no pleasing everyone lined up to take down NE. if it's a third and a 5th then it should have been more. if it's fines then it should have been picks. if it's a suspension it should be a forfeit.

really the only thing that would satisfy a lot of people would be castration

Maybe it would help you be more punishment oreinted if you imagined Dan Marino had done it, instead of Beliupchuck.

[Abe Sargent]

Every team does it, eh? I doubt it, but name me another fan who has actually gotten his team, on their website, to say that they do NOT do it:

hxxp://www.jaguars.com/news/article.aspx?id=6316

(It's the final question)

To summarize, I asked, as part of a daily Q&A for Jaguars.com:

Abe from Ypsilanti, MI: Do the Jaguars tape or record opposing team signals like the Patriots were suspected to have done on Sunday?
Vic: No, but they have video of Bill Polian turning up the volume on a speaker.



There you are, an official denial by my team spurred by me.

-Abe

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Every team does it, eh? I doubt it, but name me another fan who has actually gotten his team, on their website, to say that they do NOT do it:

hxxp://www.jaguars.com/news/article.aspx?id=6316

(It's the final question)

To summarize, I asked, as part of a daily Q&A for Jaguars.com:

Abe from Ypsilanti, MI: Do the Jaguars tape or record opposing team signals like the Patriots were suspected to have done on Sunday?
Vic: No, but they have video of Bill Polian turning up the volume on a speaker.



There you are, an official denial by my team spurred by me.

-Abe

Is that really an official team rep? I find it surprising that a team rep would make that Polian comment to some shmuck on an internet chat.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Is that really an official team rep? I find it surprising that a team rep would make that Polian comment to some shmuck on an internet chat.

It's not an internet chat, it's a Q&A post every day on their website, by Vic Ketchman, and he brings his opinion in a lit. He hinted that Byron would be let go days before it was announced, for example. Hundreds of questions are submitted daily, he choose which to answer, and then posts it as a regular feature.

He also has a great sense of humor.

[Abe Sargent]

Oh, and the Ask Vic column on Jaguars.com is one of the best things going on the Internet in the world of sports - its amazing! I love him.

[Abe Sargent]

Here's a classic Vic from today:

David from Lincoln, NE: Obviously, the Patriots are going to be punished in some way or another, but what I would like to know is why didn't Marcus Stroud get in trouble last year for having a video camera on the bench in Philadelphia?

Vic: Probably because he didn’t take the camera behind the Eagles bench and point it at the Eagles coach giving hand signals to the defense. If you must know the truth, I gave Marcus the camera and asked him to get some video of the Eagles cheerleaders.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

It's not an internet chat, it's a Q&A post every day on their website, by Vic Ketchman, and he brings his opinion in a lit. He hinted that Byron would be let go days before it was announced, for example. Hundreds of questions are submitted daily, he choose which to answer, and then posts it as a regular feature.

He also has a great sense of humor.

Well, then that tells me it's not an official response. If he flows in jokes and opinion and "inside" info, that doesn't sound like an official team response to me.

[Abe Sargent]

or this:

Eric from Jacksonville: How come we don’t just give the radio helmets to the defensive player responsible for calling the play in the huddle, just like the QB has on offense? I know cheaters will find a way to cheat, but it seems like this particular temptation could be eliminated by simply giving the defense the technology present on the other side of the ball and eliminating the need for hand signals altogether.
Vic: I really don’t want to see this wonderful game turned into a mall arcade. Intelligent men will find ways to communicate, even without radio waves. The cave men did it. How about no coach-to-QB system? How about promoting a system in which teams are rewarded for having quarterbacks capable of calling their own plays? How about a coach who’s smart enough to use cheating against cheaters? Third-base coaches routinely flash dummy signals the batter knows to ignore. Dummy signals protect the real signals because the other team doesn’t dare bite on the fake stuff. If you pitch-out enough on what you think is a steal sign, you’ll walk the batter, right? OK, so give the Patriots the fake stuff, right? The impact of this whole Patriots cheating thing is overplayed. The real impact is the loss of integrity the game has suffered as a result of its premier coach being exposed as an unsavory person. What’s the punishment? Keep him out of the Hall of Fame. That’s the best punishment. The Hall of Fame has long had a tolerance for crimes against man, but not for crimes against the game. The HOF tends to leave criminal law up to law enforcement, but stands firm in defense of the laws of football. This, in my opinion, is a classic case.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Well, then that tells me it's not an official response. If he flows in jokes and opinion and "inside" info, that doesn't sound like an official team response to me.

Vic is an old journalist with a ton of experience. He won't take the team on record for something unless he has checked his facts. He could have easily not chosen my question out of the hundreds that get asked.

[Butter]

Oh no, the Pats fans are tired of defending being Pats fans! Good heavens, what will we do? Just do what I've done about all the Bengal comments for 15 years... turn the other cheek.

This is getting close to the crybabiest thread ever on FOFC. Ever.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Vic is an old journalist with a ton of experience. He won't take the team on record for something unless he has checked his facts. He could have easily not chosen my question out of the hundreds that get asked.

Again, you seem to be picking and choosing here.

So are the Jags officially saying they have video of Polian turning up the volume?

[watravaler]

Tom Brady*

It must be nice having the defense served on a platter.

[TroyF]

1. It's very important to realize that the Pats did nothing wrong in trying to decipher signs. This is allowed and EVERYONE does do it - both during the game and in looking at pre-game video. It's been going on for decades.

STOP IT. Stop justifying it. I don't care if every team does it. Irrelevant. I'm on a highway going 75 with the flow of traffic and I get caught, I WAS speeding. There is no defense or justification. I CHOSE to speed and I got caught. I deal with the price of that mistake. Period. End of discussion.

2. It appears (as I am sure the commish will rule) the Pats did break a rule by using video equipment to do it.

A rule they had been suspected of breaking before. A rule that the commish wanted to enforce so much so that he sent a memo to every team TELLING THEM NOT TO DO IT before the start of this season.

3. I don't think you can claim that the use of video equipment was a huge advantage over ordinary sign stealing techiques -- and that's the valid comparison here, not sign stealing vs. no sign stealing. Those claiming anything else are fooling themselves. This is a no-video rule breaking, not a no-sign-stealing rule breaking. With that said, it is an advantage. By the way, if the Pats had used the camera to video tape the hot dog vendor, the same rule would have been broken.

This is the most asinine thing in this post. It's ridiculous. Of course there is an advantage. If there wasn't, they wouldn't have done it. Nobody is saying Beli is an idiot. He's a smart man and that's a smart coaching staff. It was videotaped and not photographed because the video HELPS in a big way. If you truly believe what you wrote above, your coaching staff is a group of moronic jack asses who wear velcro because they can't tie their shoelaces. They knew what they were doing, they knew the risk if they got caught and they still did it. That tells me they think it's a pretty damned big advantage.

4. It needs to be cleared up that the Pats guy was NOT on the same side of the field as the Jets - as has been misreported. Although that does not really matter in the analysis. Likewise, the rumors about radio frequencies is unsubstantiated at this point, but I believe what people are talking about is the video guy using a microphone to talk to the staff -- NOT THE INTERCEPTION OF THE OTHER TEAM'S COMMUNICATIONS.

Who gives a crap where he was? He was filiming, in direct violation of league rules and a Goodall memo, their signals. I don't care if he was doing if from a bleepin blimp above the stadium. I don't and never did think there was interception of other teams communications. I thought and still believe the Pats had multiple streams for their own use. This entire thing is about using technology to streamline your communication better. From stealing signals to dissemenating information about those signals.

5. I am still puzzled by the use of a guy decked out in Pats gear, standing there with a camera pointed at the opposing sideline. It's so blatantly obvious, especially after getting warned. The only explanation I can come up with is that Belichick thinks the rule is stupid. He was going to flaunt it just to show how stupid it was. Which was a mistake if true -- see observation number.

The justification continues. It's amazing the level you are going to make it seem like the Pats did nothing wrong. In this justification, it's that Belichick is just a defiant guy who wants to rub Goodall's face in the dirt because he thinks it's a stupid rule. Then, after the game, he was going to flaunt it and show the NFL what was happening. Is this like those guys on "To Catch a Predator" who show up and say they were just trying to warn the 13 year old about the dangers posed online? BS. He knew what he was doing and that it was against the rules. He did it because he was getting an advantage. Period.

6. This is huge public relations disaster for the team and Belichick. And it will hurt them in the pocketbook because of it.

Yes and no. I'm sure Goodall will issue a fine, but it won't be that debilitating. They'll still sell out the stadiium every week. They'll still have thousands of people buying Brady jersies. The NFL shares a lot of the league revenue and they won't lose any of that. It's a PR disaster and Beli, but it isn't going to cost them much more than the fine that Goodall levies.

7. As a Pats' fan, my feeling is sort of like hearing your little brother punched some guy in the face and you later find out he did it for no reason. You still love the guy, but you're thinking "geez, did you really have to do that, I mean you were kind of acting like a jerk there."


Your brother would have punched the guy in the face for a reason. The Pats cheated for a reason. They did it to get an edge. It may not have even been for just this game. There was a purpose behind what they did.

It's fine to still be a fan. I'm still a fan of the Broncos and I know they cheated. I hated it then and still do, but you get over it. The one thing I'm happy about is that I never tried to justify the action with excuses. It was wrong then, it's still wrong and I'm ashamed the team did it. There is no justification for the Broncos actions and there is no debate as to why they did it. It gave them a competitive edge on the field. Period.

8. As stated, people calling for forfeitures, etc. are way off base. A rule was broken (a no video taping rule) - I'd call it neither a major one nor a minor one. I don't think it even compares to the secretive systematic circumvention of the salary cap by the Broncos or the 49ers; and in which it was PROVEN TO HAVE OCCURRED WHEN THE TEAMS WERE ACTUALLY WINNING THEIR CHAMPIONSHIPS. It deserves punishment. I think a 3rd round pick is about right. And a hefty fine.

More justification. Different time, different commish. Those teams paid their price. If the Broncos or Niners violated the cap this year, I think we can all agree Goodall would lay down a very, very large hammer. There is no question in my mind those teams would lose multiple first round picks for their actions. Goodall can't control what happened in the past. What he's shown, is that he will not take someone breaking his rules lightly. Players who do are gone for a long length of time. Teams that do have to be treated in the same way. (How many games did Ray Lewis get suspended for after his Super Bowl after party? That would be NONE. He was fined 250k. Should Pac-Man and Henry be upset that they were suspended for a conduct violation when a guy who was involved in a homicide got none? Again, different time, different commish.)

9. Belichick is not a nice man. He'll do everything he can to win. He won't make any friends doing it, and he'd just as soon as steal $10 buck from his mom's wallet if it guaranteed him an extra first down the next Sunday. But what he does is win games - by hook or by crook, and by most of the very same hook or by crook methods used by every coach. Every great coach does it. Guys like Jimmy Johnson, Bill Parcells, George Allen -- they all did it. As an example, if you think someone like Mangini is beyond slipping Reche Caldwell a few thousand bucks for tips on the Pats' gameplan, you are sadly mistaken. I find that unseemly too (and I am sure Belichick does it too), but perhaps not a technical rule violation. These guys are getting paid several millions of dollars to win football games. They're going to do it.

Yet more justification. There is none. He cheated. He disregarded a direct memo for the league office. He got caught. I don't care if Mangini, Johnson, Parcells or Allen did what they did. (To my knowledge none of them were hit with a league memo asking them to stop whatever it was they were doing) Belichick probably paid Tim Dwight the same amount of dough to dish on the Jets the same week BTW. It's irrelevant to the discussion because we don't know that money was exchanged and until we do there is no proof a league rule was broken.

10. Now, can we talk about the Chargers game? I have no idea on how the Pats are going to win that one without being able to use a video camera. I guess a couple of guys with binoculars sitting next to the Chargers' guys with binoculars will have to suffice.

I feel for you man. It must be horrible to be a Pats fan. All the titles and all just have to suck. And God forbid anyone talks about a major rules violation that your favorite team was caught doing. Let's just sweep it under the rug and move on. It's so not a big deal that Belichick defied the league to do it. (I'm sorry, I forgot, he was just showing his disdane for a stupid rule, my bad.)

My advice? Deal with it. It's going to be a story for awhile and it isn't going away. You as a fan didn't make that choice and don't need to try to defend them for doing it. They made a mistake and if it wasn't a mistake and it wasn't cheating, they'll explain it all away to Goodall and show him how they didn't defy his orders. Then it's all cleared up and we move on. If they can't do that, they are cheaters. Cheaters that were caught. If they didn't want to deal with the consequences, they shouldn't have done it.

Stop justifying what they did. Stop pretending everyone saying they are cheats are wrong. (we aren't, they did what they did). Just say "we were wrong, we got caught, we have to pay the price, I'm still a fan" That's it.i'm good with it. They have a talented team, stealing signs of not. But they got caught and they can deal with the PR fallout for it. Life will go on.

FWIW, I think a first round pick should be taken away and given to the Jets. Harsh? Hell yeah. Very harsh. That's the price you pay for openly snubbing your nose at the rules. This was a calculated decision by an organization. That cannot go without severe punishment unless Goodall wants to start going easier on the players. Don't worry, I'm not the commish, they won't lose a 1rst. Likely a 3/5/7 and then move on would be my guess.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Maybe it would help you be more punishment oreinted if you imagined Dan Marino had done it, instead of Beliupchuck.

Oh what I'd do to Marino.

Decorum prevents me from elaborating.

[rkmsuf]

troy just gave birth

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by molson

I didn't mean this thread, though I don't recall seeing Bellichick called a hero either, so I thought you were talking about the world/internet as a whole. I was just making a point of how silly it is to do that.

He wasn't called a hero, but people did speculate that maybe Belichik did it to call attention to the problem, which I think is an extremely silly argument. Like Vick was calling attention to the evils of dogfighting.

All I know is that I was a loyal fan for a shitty team for over a decade. Then they got good. Only then did I feel the need to defend myself for rooting for them. It's been a facinating transition.

But is that really so bad? I'm sure, say, Cardinals or Raiders fans would love to have the same problem.

"My Oakland Raiders looking good with three Superbowl trophies."

It just seems like the Pats fans are complaining about it in this thread a bit too much, especially when many of the complaints are not about things that anyone here has said. I mean, I've heard a ton of vicious crap about Dan Marino ("overrated", "choker", "Jay Fiedler was better") over the years on talk radio and idiot message boards, but I don't make a post and go off on a rant about it unless it happens here.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by VPI97

Yeah, but I've seen at least two people speculate that all of this was just Belichick trying to help out the league by calling attention to the problem.

He's a hero, you know.

Yawn. I said this was a possibility based on Belichik's history of deviousness and the complete obviousness of this, and also said they were wrong to do it and deserve punishment for having done so. And I've expressed my disappointment in the team for having done this.

Taking away one of those second or third rounders they've been stockpiling for a few years plus a fine seems very appropriate.

But hey, I'm just an obnoxious arrogant Patriots fan. As opposed to the obnoxious and arrogant Eagles fans, and the obnoxious and arrogant Dallas fans, and the obnoxious and arrogant Broncos fans, and the obnoxious and arrogant Raiders fans, ...

[rkmsuf]

and the obnoxious and arrogant Raiders fans,

I'm jbmagic, beotch!

[gstelmack]

Look, many of you may think Pats fans are "defending" Belichick and the team with all these theories about what they might have really been doing, when the reality is we're just perplexed that he'd do something this stupid in such an obvious manner.

[larrymcg421]

But hey, I'm just an obnoxious arrogant Patriots fan. As opposed to the obnoxious and arrogant Eagles fans, and the obnoxious and arrogant Dallas fans, and the obnoxious and arrogant Broncos fans, and the obnoxious and arrogant Raiders fans, ...

Not sure the point of this comment. I don't think anyone is denying that such fans exist? I really don't get this Patriots fan persecution complex. Is it leftover aggravation from the Red Sox years?

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Not sure the point of this comment. I don't think anyone is denying that such fans exist? I really don't get this Patriots fan persecution complex. Is it leftover aggravation from the Red Sox years?

My point is EVERY team has obnoxious fans, and I'm tired of people assuming that all of {insert team here}'s fans are obnoxious and arrogant because some of {insert team here}'s fans are obnoxious and arrogant.

[molson]

-Few Pats fans are defending what they did
-Few Pats fans don't think there should be a punishment
-Most fans are upset with the team for doing this
-A majority of Pats fans think the Patriots are singled out to some extent here, depending on how many teams do this (which we don't know yet).
-A majority of Pats fans think this is, above all, another shot fired in the Jets/Pats nonsense which has gone for years now.
-Every thread on FOFC which inolves the Patriots eventually turns into an attack on Patriots fans as a whole.
-Patriots fans respond to those attacks in a variety of ways, all criticized.

Just felt the need to sum up.

But ya, at the end of the day, I'd rather be an obnoxious fan of a team that's given me so much enjoyment than the alternative.

[gstelmack]

Well summarized, molson.

[SirFozzie]

Bingo.

[rkmsuf]

"You're not taping this are you?"

"No never, never."

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by molson

I didn't mean this thread, though I don't recall seeing Bellichick called a hero either, so I thought you were talking about the world/internet as a whole. I was just making a point of how silly it is to do that.

All I know is that I was a loyal fan for a shitty team for over a decade. Then they got good. Only then did I feel the need to defend myself for rooting for them. It's been a facinating transition.

I was a Yankees fan for 15(ish) years when they were shitty (early 80s until their first world series in the 90s). Yet people say what assholes Yankee fans are (for the record, now that I have a true home team, I don't particularly care about the Yankees). Just because you supported a team while it was bad (and yes, I know you'll say "but they were dominant before that") doesn't mean you have a right to be an asshole once they are good.

And, as many have said, I don't understand this inferiority complex that Pats fans have. Everyone I know thinks the Pats are a great story. They are a true "America's Team" unlike the Cowboys being dubbed as such. Do people in the division or that regularly play them have some venom? Sure. But fans as a whole feel good things about the Pats, Tom Brady, etc. (Maybe not the coach)

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by molson

-Every thread on FOFC which inolves the Patriots eventually turns into an attack on Patriots fans as a whole.
-Patriots fans respond to those attacks in a variety of ways, all criticized.

I would argue that generally these two are reversed.

*shurg*

[rkmsuf]

Based on what Adam Schefter was saying on WEEI this morning:


1. Why were they videotaping the sidelines? According to Schefter's sources, the Patriots have a "DNA" book on every player and coach in the league and these tapes are part of building that book. That is why NE recorded Minnesota and other teams they don't play often -- because you never know when that personnel winds up on a team that they DO play frequently. And in light of that information, it stands to reason that this has a lot more to do with how these INDIVIDUALS react to different things on the field than it does with what THE TEAM is doing (i.e. what their signals are). Bottom line, they were not recording the sidelines for any real-time in-game impact.

2. Why did BB keep doing it? It sounds like (again according to schefter's sources) he was under the assumption (right or wrong) that recording was allowable so long as no club staff had access to the camera or tapes DURING THE GAME (see above). This also explains why they were doing it so "brazenly" out in the open. They didn't think it was illegal under the circumstances. If they did, they would have done it more covertly.

[molson]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

I was a Yankees fan for 15(ish) years when they were shitty (early 80s until their first world series in the 90s). Yet people say what assholes Yankee fans are (for the record, now that I have a true home team, I don't particularly care about the Yankees). Just because you supported a team while it was bad (and yes, I know you'll say "but they were dominant before that") doesn't mean you have a right to be an asshole once they are good.

I agree with all that.

I just don't see where any Patriots fans are being assholes in this thread.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by molson

I agree with all that.

I just don't see where any Patriots fans are being assholes in this thread.

I don't think anyone really has in this thread, but in threads in the past....

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by profootballtalk.com

IS BRADY TARNISHED, TOO?

At the risk of inviting another 500 or so e-mails, we need to address a twist to this whole Patriots Act ordeal that we have yet to tackle, but that we have been pondering for the past 36 hours or so.

Do the revelations of stolen defensive signals diminish the reputation and perceived abilities of quarterback Tom Brady?

If the goal of the brazenly overt operations was to help the team know the tactics that an opposing defense would employ on a given play (either on game day or the next time the two teams met), the player squarely in the eye of the storm of information was Brady. And, surely, he knew (or at least suspected) that the intelligence that the offensive coaches had about what a given defense might be doing didn't come from legitimate methods.

So, as an industry source posed the question to us this morning, what did Brady know, and when did he know it?

Unless and until Brady comes clean with a full and frank -- and credible -- explanation about his first-hand experiences, it fairly can be presumed that his legend has been fueled by the advantage derived from the actions for which the Patriots undoubtedly will be punished, as soon as Friday.

How many times has Brady come up with a key play late in a close game? In those occasions, how many times did he know exactly what the defense would be doing?

Part of the effectiveness of a blitz is the element of surprise. And a quarterback's challenge in that situation is to spot the corresponding gap in the coverage, and to get the ball to the receiver who'll likely be wide open in the sliver of time that the quarterback has to unload the ball before landing on his butt.

If the quarterback knows that the blitz is coming before the play is snapped, and if he knows who'll be blitzing, the task of finding that open receiver suddenly becomes a lot easier.

How many times have we seen Brady fire the ball to a wide open receiver an instant after Brady got the snap? How, in those cases, did he know so quickly that the guy would be open?

Though we realize that there are many factors that influence the ability of the team to achieve success on the field, most of which are unrelated to cheating, the added advantage that can come from knowing what the defense is going to do can make a huge difference. Otherwise, the Patriots (and other teams) wouldn't be devoting time and effort and money in order to find out, through legitimate and/or illegitimate means.

As we see it, the fact that the Patriots did what they allegedly/apparently/actually did creates a presumption that a benefit came from it. The fact that Brady has been the quarterback since 2001 creates a presumption that he knew or should have known what was going on. The fact that he took less money to stay in New England suggests that he knew (or feared) that he might not be able to replicate his success in a system that doesn't involve videotaping defensive signals. So unless he comes clean, we think it's fair to believe that, but for the added benefits that came from knowing what the defense was doing via techniques that crossed the line, he might have performed more like a sixth-round draft pick and less like a future Hall of Famer.

Regardless of whether he opts not to disclose what he knew and when he knew it, we think that Brady will be required to achieve a high level of success under another coach, and possibly with another team, before he is regarded as being truly worthy of Canton.

Hmmm...

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by VPI97

Hmmm...

people have completely lost their minds

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

people have completely lost their minds

lol

I'm agree. I think PFT went WAY over the top with that one.

[gstelmack]

Brady has already stated he did not know about this. He is surely getting playcalls from the coaches, and they MAY have inside info he's not aware of, which may amount to the same thing in the end, but Brady's claim has been that he did not know this particular activity was occurring.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Brady has already stated he did not know about this. He is surely getting playcalls from the coaches, and they MAY have inside info he's not aware of, which may amount to the same thing in the end, but Brady's claim has been that he did not know this particular activity was occurring.

Did anyone really suspect he'd say somthing different?

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Did anyone really suspect he'd say somthing different?

I wish he'd say "fuck yeah I knew. We might even launch a spy plane next game."

The way the world is carrying on I almost want them to cheat more and win the next 10 superbowls.

[larrymcg421]

At the risk of inviting another 500 or so e-mails

What an incredibly stupid way to start that article.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by PFT?

The fact that he took less money to stay in New England suggests that he knew (or feared) that he might not be able to replicate his success in a system that doesn't involve videotaping defensive signals. So unless he comes clean, we think it's fair to believe that, but for the added benefits that came from knowing what the defense was doing via techniques that crossed the line, he might have performed more like a sixth-round draft pick and less like a future Hall of Famer.

Regardless of whether he opts not to disclose what he knew and when he knew it, we think that Brady will be required to achieve a high level of success under another coach, and possibly with another team, before he is regarded as being truly worthy of Canton.

when did terrell davis get hired by pft?