*World Cup Game Discussion Thread* (SPOILERS)

[Critch]

After the Ghana v Brazil game, the Ghana coach accused the ref of being biased. When asked about it the Brazil coach Carlos Alberto Parreira said "That is what losers do, they whinge and they cry."

Looks like there could be a career in diplomacy if the coaching doesn't work out.

[ISiddiqui]

I'm sure the Bush administration needs someone with those skills!

Though, FWIW, the Ghana manager is right, but the refs are ALWAYS biased for Brazil. That's what a bigger name will get you.

[Desnudo]

Just watched the Brazil and France games last night. Seemed like both Spain and Ghana got jobbed by the refs, although the Brazil non-offides call was more innocous than Henry's dive. Why don't the refs consult their sideline refs when they can't see the call clearly? I noticed EPL refs doing it last season and it really seemed to help.

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Damn, I wish I was off on Friday .

Two+ hour lunch and tape the Italy game.

[ISiddiqui]

Btw, for anyone bored these few days, or not, check out the New York Times World Cup 2006 blog. It's absolutely fabulous!

http://worldcup.blogs.nytimes.com/

A great article there called "The sins of American broadcasting" about how instead of blaming O'Brien & Balboa for the bad commentary, the main culprit may be the American way of announcing ALL of its sports. It talks about how Madden and Michaels have made MNF announcing a chore for fans as well. It speaks to how American sports broadcasting tends to go for human interest stories (in fact Dave O'Brien has stated that his job in baseball and soccer is "to tell stories") rather than describing the action as it happens.

Another one speaks to English speaking people watching Univision.

Fun reading .

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Just watched the Brazil and France games last night. Seemed like both Spain and Ghana got jobbed by the refs, although the Brazil non-offides call was more innocous than Henry's dive. Why don't the refs consult their sideline refs when they can't see the call clearly? I noticed EPL refs doing it last season and it really seemed to help.

In the case of the Henry decision, the linesman was flagging frantically for a foul, if the ref had conferred the only difference might have been Puyol seeing red instead of yellow. Both were fooled, the linesman more so!

[thealmighty]

This is funny.

hxxp://youtube.com/watch?v=wEfPuIFoVB4&search=referee%20world%20cup

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Another one speaks to English speaking people watching Univision.

Hey that's me!!! Especially when Balboa and O'Brien have the commentary. I don't know enough Spanish for the commentators to make me want to throw things. Univision also shows the national anthems AND actually shows the starting lineups/goes on the air before the game begins!

[3ric]

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

Univision also shows the national anthems AND actually shows the starting lineups/goes on the air before the game begins!

That's the most important part of the pre-game show. I don't need to see the experts in the studio chattering mindlessly right until seconds before kickoff.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

In the case of the Henry decision, the linesman was flagging frantically for a foul, if the ref had conferred the only difference might have been Puyol seeing red instead of yellow. Both were fooled, the linesman more so!

Damn. Although I will admit when I first saw it, I thought it was a vicious foul, especially since it was Henry, whom I felt was a sportsman. Guess I was wrong about that. It will make it hard to enjoy watching him next season.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

Hey that's me!!! Especially when Balboa and O'Brien have the commentary. I don't know enough Spanish for the commentators to make me want to throw things. Univision also shows the national anthems AND actually shows the starting lineups/goes on the air before the game begins!

I think ABC has been showing the national anthems and line-ups. If you don't watch Balboa you miss him miscalling every single off-sides, even on replay.

Also miss highlights like him getting on Ghana for a very high d-line and then later getting on them for giving too much space in the midfield.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Damn. Although I will admit when I first saw it, I thought it was a vicious foul, especially since it was Henry, whom I felt was a sportsman. Guess I was wrong about that. It will make it hard to enjoy watching him next season.

If you have EVER believed Henry was not a diver, then you have been sorely mislead, my friend.

[ice4277]

I'm pretty ghappy there are no games today. After trying to fit 2 or 3 in every day, I actually feel kind of relieved.

[cartman]

Here's an article about which refs got sent home, and which ones will be calling the next round of games:

hxxp://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2006/5108722.stm


Ref Poll sent home from World Cup

Graham Poll has been named as one of 14 referees who have been sent home from the World Cup.

The English referee has paid the price for his yellow-card blunder in the Australia versus Croatia game when he booked Josip Simunic three times.

Russian Valentin Ivanov, who issued a World Cup record 16 yellow and four red cards in Portugal's fiery game against Holland, is also on his way home.

Argentine Horacio Elizondo will referee England's quarter-final with Portugal.

Poll, 42, had been tipped as a possible World Cup final referee prior to the tournament getting under way.

But a series of errors in Australia's crucial final Group F match ended any such hopes of being given the showpiece final.

Poll's biggest mistake led to him cautioning Croatia's Simunic three times before finally sending him off.

But the Tring official also dismissed Australia's Brett Emerton and Croatia's Dario Simic.

And Poll awarded the Socceroos a first-half penalty for handball by Stjepan Tomas but failed to spot an even more blatant handball by the same player after the break.

Mark Viduka also seemed to be bundled to the ground in the box during the first half, while it appeared that Harry Kewell was offside when he scored Australia's second equaliser.

A statement from Fifa referees committee president Angel Maria Villar Llona defended Poll but also conceded he had made a mistake.

The statement read: "Graham Poll is an exceptional referee and a great sportsman, who will be able to overcome the situation thanks to his strong personality and love of the game.

Australia's Mark Viduka is brought down by Croatia's Josip Simunic
Viduka had strong penalty claims waved away

"Thursday evening's 2-2 draw between Croatia and Australia in Stuttgart saw referee Graham Poll make an error.

"The experienced official is disappointed at having committed the error, the first such mistake in his 26-year career.

"The Fifa referees committee also recognised the oversight and the fact that none of the match officials at the stadium picked up on the error.

"In explaining his actions to the committee, Poll said he incorrectly noted down the name of the Australia number three Craig Moore when booking Simunic for the second time and failed to realise his error."

Poll's assistant referees Philip Sharp and Glenn Turner will also not be involved in the latter stages of the tournament in Germany.

Referees for World Cup quarter-finals:
Germany v Argentina (Lubos Michel, Slovakia)
Italy v Ukraine (Frank de Bleeckere, Belgium)
England v Portugal (Horacio Elizondo, Argentina)
Brazil v France (Luis Medina Cantalejo, Spain)

Other retained referees:
Toru Kamikawa (Japan), Coffi Codjia (Benin), Benito Archundia (Mexico), Jorge Larrionda (Uruguay), Mark Shield (Australia), Massimo Busacca (Switzerland), Markus Merk (Germany), Roberto Rosetti (Italy).

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

If you have EVER believed Henry was not a diver, then you have been sorely mislead, my friend.

Maybe. I've never noticed it in the Arsenal games I've seen. Obviously he is, because that was so over the top that you can't hide it.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

If you have EVER believed Henry was not a diver, then you have been sorely mislead, my friend.

I think you have to turn this statement around. I mean, try finding players who don't do this kind of stuff.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by cartman

Graham Poll has been named as one of 14 referees who have been sent home from the World Cup.

The English referee has paid the price for his yellow-card blunder in the Australia versus Croatia game when he booked Josip Simunic three times.

Read that this afternoon and was kind of shocked that absolutely nobody caught it among the other refs. I mean, the linesman have got to back their center guy better than that. He said he wrote the wrong number when he gave the second card and while it's really not good, it could happen. But that none of his two assistants even waived the flag or anything is inexcusable. I know they don't write them down but I've done many games on the sidelines to know you keep mentally track of who's been booked and who has not...

FM

[bulletsponge]

Read that this afternoon and was kind of shocked that absolutely nobody caught it among the other refs. I mean, the linesman have got to back their center guy better than that. He said he wrote the wrong number when he gave the second card and while it's really not good, it could happen. But that none of his two assistants even waived the flag or anything is inexcusable. I know they don't write them down but I've done many games on the sidelines to know you keep mentally track of who's been booked and who has not...

Froggy i think its pretty obvious that this WC doesnt have the same quality of Refs as a Canadian amature league, so they have to make due

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Maybe. I've never noticed it in the Arsenal games I've seen. Obviously he is, because that was so over the top that you can't hide it.

Is it because you are an Arsenal fan?

Most fans of other teams berate Henry because of his diving. When Andrew Johnson was in the Prem (and will be again, IIRC) he was also accused of it as well.

[Desnudo]

I'm not an Arsenal fan, but I do(did) enjoy watching Henry play. Johnson I remember as being an incredible diver.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Is it because you are an Arsenal fan?

Most fans of other teams berate Henry because of his diving. When Andrew Johnson was in the Prem (and will be again, IIRC) he was also accused of it as well.

I don't think Des is an Arse fan.

I disagree about Henry and diving. Although he's whiny as all Hell, he does not tend to go to ground nearly as easy as most. Like Ronaldinho, he generally tends to fight to stay on his feet. Look at the Madrid goal, amongst others. This instance was extremely uncharacteristic and disappointing. I and, I think, most Arsenal fans hope it's a one-off thing from frustration.

We do have our share of players who go to ground far too easily, Reyes and Pires immediately come to mind. Eboue showed in the CL Final that he's not averse to it. (I did not see his WC games but Arseblogger said he repeated that in one of their games again.) When he was with Arsenal, Vieira, for his size and reputation as a tough tackler, went to ground very easily.

Given the post I'm quoting, I'm sure your answer will be: "That's because you are an Arsenal fan!" Shrug, if that's how you feel, I don't suppose there is much point in debating it. But perhaps Arsenal fans are not the only one who should be evaluating their bias.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Shame, shame on Henry. He was quoted today as saying "I'm not a cheater," but didn't explain how it is possible to grab your face in agony when an arm hits you in the stomach. We judge people by their actions, not their words. Henry, you're a cheater. But then again so are 3/4s of footballers. I admire Ronaldhino with each game he plays -- he simply refuses to fall down.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Is it because you are an Arsenal fan?

Most fans of other teams berate Henry because of his diving. When Andrew Johnson was in the Prem (and will be again, IIRC) he was also accused of it as well.

I'm not an Arsenal fan, and don;t class Henry as a diver. [edit: 'generally' - clearly he did on this occasion. What was worse was the clutching the face part. I think that is what gets English fans more than the actual diving: then having the gall to feign injury]

A moaner? Yes. But not an excessive diver. AJ should be a field athlete - as soon as hits that 18 yard box line he launches himself further than any of our Olympic long jumpers. The guy is a joke - top English scorer two years ago largely because he scored half of his goals from generally undeserved pens he had 'won' himself

[Marc Vaughan]

I agree with Jari - Henry doesn't 'normally' dive, let alone try and get opposition players sent off, I think this is part of the reason why the reaction to his actions has been so harsh ...

He's always been a player I've respected because of his ability and demeanor in his personal life so for him to act in this manner is disappointing ... football needs less cheating and big matches being decided by such actions is bad for the sport as a whole imho.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

Read that this afternoon and was kind of shocked that absolutely nobody caught it among the other refs. I mean, the linesman have got to back their center guy better than that. He said he wrote the wrong number when he gave the second card and while it's really not good, it could happen. But that none of his two assistants even waived the flag or anything is inexcusable. I know they don't write them down but I've done many games on the sidelines to know you keep mentally track of who's been booked and who has not...

FM

Right near the end of the game - just after the Aussie's 3rd goal was waved off for some reason - Viduka hugs Poll. At the time I didn't know why, because the game was still going, but I believe he is telling Poll that the Croatian has 2 yellows, because immediately after he issues the red.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Right near the end of the game - just after the Aussie's 3rd goal was waved off for some reason - Viduka hugs Poll. At the time I didn't know why, because the game was still going, but I believe he is telling Poll that the Croatian has 2 yellows, because immediately after he issues the red.

It's because he's a cult hero in England.

[TroyF]

hxxp://gprime.net/video.php/soccerpractice

[Fighter of Foo]

Half hour to kickoff...

Teams:

Germany (4-4-2):
1-Jens Lehmann; 3-Arne Friedrich, 21-Christoph Metzelder, 17-Per Mertesacker, 16-Philipp Lahm; 19-Bernd Schneider, 8-Torsten Frings, 13-Michael Ballack, 7-Bastian Schweinsteiger; 20-Lukas Podolski, 11-Miroslav Klose

Coach: Juergen Klinsmann


Argentina (4-4-2):
1-Roberto Abbondanzieri; 4-Fabricio Coloccini, 2-Roberto Ayala, 6-Gabriel Heinze, 3-Juan Pablo Sorin; 22-Luis Gonzalez, 8-Javier Mascherano, 10-Juan Roman Riquelme, 18-Maxi Rodriguez; 11-Carlos Tevez, 9-Hernan Crespo

Coach: Jose Pekerman

Referee: Lubos Michel (Slovakia) Linesmen: Roman Slysko (Slovakia)

Martin Balko (Slovakia)



ESPN360 should have a live feed for those stuck at work, but I found it to be choppy last week. Check the World Cup viewing thread for other options.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

Half hour to kickoff...

Teams:

Germany (4-4-2):
1-Jens Lehmann; 3-Arne Friedrich, 21-Christoph Metzelder, 17-Per Mertesacker, 16-Philipp Lahm; 19-Bernd Schneider, 8-Torsten Frings, 13-Michael Ballack, 7-Bastian Schweinsteiger; 20-Lukas Podolski, 11-Miroslav Klose

Coach: Juergen Klinsmann


Argentina (4-4-2):
1-Roberto Abbondanzieri; 4-Fabricio Coloccini, 2-Roberto Ayala, 6-Gabriel Heinze, 3-Juan Pablo Sorin; 22-Luis Gonzalez, 8-Javier Mascherano, 10-Juan Roman Riquelme, 18-Maxi Rodriguez; 11-Carlos Tevez, 9-Hernan Crespo

Coach: Jose Pekerman

Referee: Lubos Michel (Slovakia) Linesmen: Roman Slysko (Slovakia)

Martin Balko (Slovakia)



ESPN360 should have a live feed for those stuck at work, but I found it to be choppy last week. Check the World Cup viewing thread for other options.

must...find...tv...in...lima airport!

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by daedalus

It's because he's a cult hero in England.

So close! Just one letter out

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

Argentina (4-4-2):
1-Roberto Abbondanzieri; 4-Fabricio Coloccini, 2-Roberto Ayala, 6-Gabriel Heinze, 3-Juan Pablo Sorin; 22-Luis Gonzalez, 8-Javier Mascherano, 10-Juan Roman Riquelme, 18-Maxi Rodriguez; 11-Carlos Tevez, 9-Hernan Crespo

Messi and Cambiasso start on the bench.

[Recoil]

What the hell is "magic spray"?

[MIJB#19]

Huh...? What...? Is it over yet? I fell asleep during the first half.

[VPI97]

All game long, the Germans have looked like they don't give a crap about what's going on.

[Desnudo]

You can't go far post with two defenders in your way you jackass Balboa.

[ISiddiqui]

Wow... Klose equalizes in a game that had been taken over by Argentina!

[VPI97]

Wow! Great play!

[Desnudo]

That "dive" actually looked like a legit foul although probably not a penalty.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I realize that I'm probably late to the party on this, but damn Balboa sounds like a f'n idiot today.

"Good dive, good yellow card" ???

Umm ... WTF? If it was a dive, then there shouldn't have been a yellow on the foul. If it's a good yellow card then it wasn't a dive.

[Critch]

Good game so far, particularly after Argentina took the lead. They should let Argentina and Germany into the semis and just send home Italy and Ukraine.

Think Pekerman keeps his job if Argentina get knocked out of the world cup in a game where he kept Messi and Saviola on the bench?

[Desnudo]

Balboa is a fool with a grating voice who should never announce anything again. Turn on Univision. Even if you can't understand Spanish, it's more interesting.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Critch

Good game so far, particularly after Argentina took the lead. They should let Argentina and Germany into the semis and just send home Italy and Ukraine.

Think Pekerman keeps his job if Argentina get knocked out of the world cup in a game where he kept Messi and Saviola on the bench?

I think Tevez and especially Crespo can't really be argued with either. Although Saviola/Crespo probably would have been the best combo.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

I think Tevez and especially Crespo can't really be argued with either. Although Saviola/Crespo probably would have been the best combo.

Yeah, the starting lineup probably cant be argued with, but bringing on Cruz for Crespo when you've got Saviola and Messi sitting there probably can.

I realize that now I've said that, Cruz will score the winner.

[DanGarion]

So with all the World Cup stuff, what's everyones opinion of the best Xbox Soccer game right now? Is it the EA version? That's what I've got in the past.

[Schmidty]

What a great ending!!!

[ISiddiqui]

Wow... Lehmann with some great goalkeeping at the end of the match.

[JonInMiddleGA]

WTF???

[SackAttack]

It's called a fight, Jon.

Or at least a significant disagreement.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

It's called a fight, Jon. Or at least a significant disagreement.

Glad you were here to clear that up for me.

[SackAttack]

It's what I do.

You seemed confused.