POTUS 2016 General Election Discussion Thread

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Kodos

For tarcone:

Stop Pretending You Don't Know Why People Hate Hillary Clinton | Huffington Post

There are legitimate reasons to dislike Hillary that have nothing to do with her gender. This is a hack piece (the norm for HuffPo) that generalizes everyone who disagrees with someone politically.

[RainMaker]

Like do you have to hate women if you don't like someone for being a puppet for big banks and big business? For voting for the Iraq War?

[Buccaneer]

From an AP article in a swing state (Colorado):

Clinton struggling to win over the young voters she needs

By: NICHOLAS RICCARDI, Associated Press September 29, 2016 Updated: 7 minutes ago

BOULDER — John Morales was interning for Bernie Sanders' campaign when the longshot Democratic candidate's hopes started to fade in the spring. That's when Libertarian Gary Johnson caught his interest.

In many ways Johnson and Sanders are ideological opposites. The Vermont senator is an opponent of foreign trade deals and won over many younger voters in the primaries by calling for enormous government spending to guarantee universal health care and free college tuition. Johnson, the former New Mexico governor, supports smaller government and the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

But he shares Sanders' outsider, tell-it-like-it-is style, social liberalism and skepticism about military intervention overseas — attributes that have won over enough Sanders supporters to worry Democrats he could jeopardize Hillary Clinton's chances in November.

Related: Donald Trump to stump in Pueblo, Loveland on Monday
Morales, a 22-year-old community college student and Army Reservist, is one of those converts — he's now interning for Johnson.

"He agrees with about 70 percent of what Bernie was saying," Morales said, adding that many of his friends who liked Sanders now are also drawn to Johnson. "I do believe that he's got better ideas than Hillary and Trump," Morales says.

With roughly a month until Election Day, Clinton is still struggling to win over young voters who twice helped elect Barack Obama.

"They're not brand loyal to either party — they're loyal to ideology and disruption of the status quo," said Jill Hanauer, a Denver-based Democratic strategist whose firm has polled the age group known as millennials. She said many don't remember how protest votes for Green Party candidate Ralph Nader helped elect George W. Bush in 2000.

Clinton's challenge with younger voters is part of what's keeping the race close. A recent AP-GfK poll found Johnson pulling 14 percent of voters under 30, Green Party nominee Jill Stein with 3 percent and "other" with 6 percent. Clinton had the backing of 48 percent of young voters, compared with the 60 percent Obama notched in 2012. Trump had 27 percent in the poll.

"Most of the supporters and volunteers who come in here are former Bernie people," said Woodrow Johnston, the Las Vegas-based deputy director of youth outreach for the candidate.

"I think that for the most part people buy more into themes -- or character -- than issues."

Clinton's campaign plans to have popular surrogates, including Obama, first lady Michelle Obama and Sanders make her case. Their arguments to young people won't directly target Johnson but instead will focus on the potential consequences of voting for a third-party candidate.

"If you don't vote, that's a vote for Trump," Obama declared this week on the Steve Harvey radio show. "If you vote for a third-party candidate who's got no chance to win, that's a vote for Trump."

Johnson's support among younger voters has roiled the campaign, especially in Colorado, though he's hurt himself with recent gaffes. This week he's being mocked for being unable, in a television appearance, to name a single world leader he admired. That awkward moment drew a comparison by Johnson himself to his "Aleppo moment" this month, when he didn't recognize the besieged city in Syria.

Still, Clinton has struggled to win over supporters of Sanders, who handily won the Democratic primary here.

A CNN poll this week suggested third-party candidates could make a difference in Colorado: The poll found a nominal one-point lead for Trump when Johnson and Stein were included in the survey, while Clinton had a two-point lead when they were not.

Clinton's challenges are obvious in the liberal college town of Boulder. Some young voters at the University of Colorado are still pining for Sanders and unwilling to embrace her.

Payton Smith, a 21-year-old business major, had backed Sanders even though he disagreed with some of the Vermont senator's proposals. "It was something different," he said. Now he's shifted to Johnson. "I'd rather put my name behind someone who's not a liar or a thug."

At the Innisfree poetry bookshop and coffee house, a Sanders sign and an etching of the senator still hang in the window. On the patio, Dani Ballard, 21, and Cal Hoffman, 22, pondered their options. They'll probably vote for Stein and can't bring themselves to support Clinton. "I just feel like she's untrustworthy," Ballard said.

"I find the choices of both major parties so depressing," said Hoffman.

Some Sanders supporters have no problem with Clinton. "Bernie is the leader I'd like in an ideal world, but Hillary is the leader I want for America today," said Shruti Kaul, 18.

And plenty of ex-Sanders voters are willing to temper their feelings.

Brooke Long, a 23-year-old geography major, tells pollsters she supports Johnson in hopes the Libertarian candidate reaches the 15 percent polling threshold to let him into presidential debates.

"If my options were Gary Johnson, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, in a reasonable situation where Donald Trump couldn't win, I'd go with Gary Johnson," Long said.

But she knows she doesn't live in that world and is voting for Clinton. "I'm in a swing state," she. "I have a responsibility. I don't want to have a Nader problem again."

___

AP White House Correspondent Julie Pace and AP Polling Editor Emily Swanson contributed to this report from Washington.

[RainMaker]

I don't think she helps herself by going after stuff like Pepe the Frog. Just makes her look out of touch to young people.

[tarcone]

If she said she was going to legalize marijuana, I bet she wins a lot of the young vote.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't think she helps herself by going after stuff like Pepe the Frog. Just makes her look out of touch to young people.

Well, my 14yo loves memes and liked Pepe the Frog, until she realized tonight that it has been co-opted by white supremecists. She'd probably appreciate justice for Pepe.

[JPhillips]

It's been almost 24 hours...and I still can't come up with a foreign leader I look up to.

— Gov. Gary Johnson (@GovGaryJohnson) September 29, 2016

Ha ha! I don't know anything!

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Ha ha! I don't know anything!

Don't be so hard on yourself.

[larrymcg421]

Gary Johnson is also pushing this stupid narrative that Lincoln was a third party candidate.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Gary Johnson is also pushing this stupid narrative that Lincoln was a third party candidate.

I always thought that was ridiculously strange. Don't these people study history? The Republican Party was definitely the major opposition party in 1856 and again in 1860 (when the Democrats split in half - Southern Democrats were the 3rd Party that year) - after the disintegration of the Whigs (the American "Know Nothing" Party was by far the third party that came out of the Whigs ending).

[larrymcg421]

Yeah and the Republicans won the House majority in 1858. Kinda hard to be a third party when you control the House of Representatives.

[SirFozzie]

I just can't wait to see what Trump can do with the US economy. And by "just can't wait" I mean "Oh god, we're going to let this scumbag get the keys to the US treasury?

I'd much prefer the basic Republicans, at least you know that if you let them, they will follow through on their promises (to privatise everything, the free market will decide, yadda yadda yadda). Trump can't even be trusted to do THAT.

Donald Trump often portrays himself as a savior of the working class who will "protect your job." But a USA TODAY NETWORK analysis found he has been involved in more than 3,500 lawsuits over the past three decades — and a large number of those involve ordinary Americans, like the Friels, who say Trump or his companies have refused to pay them.

At least 60 lawsuits, along with hundreds of liens, judgments, and other government filings reviewed by the USA TODAY NETWORK, document people who have accused Trump and his businesses of failing to pay them for their work. Among them: a dishwasher in Florida. A glass company in New Jersey. A carpet company. A plumber. Painters. Forty-eight waiters. Dozens of bartenders and other hourly workers at his resorts and clubs, coast to coast. Real estate brokers who sold his properties. And, ironically, several law firms that once represented him in these suits and others.

Trump’s companies have also been cited for 24 violations of the Fair Labor Standards Act since 2005 for failing to pay overtime or minimum wage, according to U.S. Department of Labor data. That includes 21 citations against the defunct Trump Plaza in Atlantic City and three against the also out-of-business Trump Mortgage LLC in New York. Both cases were resolved by the companies agreeing to pay back wages.

In addition to the lawsuits, the review found more than 200 mechanic’s liens — filed by contractors and employees against Trump, his companies or his properties claiming they were owed money for their work — since the 1980s. The liens range from a $75,000 claim by a Plainview, N.Y., air conditioning and heating company to a $1 million claim from the president of a New York City real estate banking firm. On just one project, Trump’s Taj Mahal casino in Atlantic City, records released by the New Jersey Casino Control Commission in 1990 show that at least 253 subcontractors weren’t paid in full or on time, including workers who installed walls, chandeliers and plumbing.

That may be "Fiscally Responsible" but, it's also FRAUDULENT. And we're coming close to letting this Yabo do the same thing, but this time in AMERICA'S name, with the keys to the US Treasury? If you vote republican because they're "the sane ones" when it comes to fiscal responsibility, but you vote trump, you are simply a hypocrite. End of story

USA TODAY exclusive: Hundreds allege Donald Trump doesn’t pay his bills

[mckerney]

At least he may have to pay some people back, being he may be forced to return donations to the Trump Foundation being it isn't registered to solicit donations in New York.

Trump Foundation lacks the certification required for charities that solicit money - The Washington Post

Donald Trump’s charitable foundation — which has been sustained for years by donors outside the Trump family — has never obtained the certification that New York requires before charities can solicit money from the public, according to the state attorney general’s office.

Under the laws in New York, where the Donald J. Trump Foundation is based, any charity that solicits more than $25,000 a year from the public must obtain a special kind of registration beforehand. Charities as large as Trump’s must also submit to a rigorous annual audit that asks — among other things — whether the charity spent any money for the personal benefit of its officers.

If New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman (D) finds that Trump’s foundation raised money in violation of the law, he could order the charity to stop raising money immediately. With a court’s permission, Schneiderman could also force Trump to return money that his foundation has already raised.

Which could explain why he didn't register, but he seems to have used the money he had paid to the foundation instead of him to personal and business reasons rather than charitable ones.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't think she helps herself by going after stuff like Pepe the Frog. Just makes her look out of touch to young people.

The problem is also the younger generation knows how to Google, use social media, and tends to pay attention to traditional MSM outlets. We can look up your statements/facts and history in an instant, and see through the B.S. due to these technological resources.

[digamma]

Check out sex tape, says presidential candidate.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by digamma

Check out sex tape, says presidential candidate.

Saw this. Thought it was a joke. After a year and half, I really ought to have known better.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Saw this. Thought it was a joke. After a year and half, I really ought to have known better.

After reading it my thought was I'm not sure if this will be Trump trying to shame someone else or attempting to brag by telling people to check out a sex tape he's in.

[cartman]

He also said if you see an article about him quoting "sources" to not believe it, there are no sources and it is all lies.

But if "many people are saying"...

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by cartman

He also said if you see an article about him quoting "sources" to not believe it, there are no sources and it is all lies.

But if "many people are saying"...

Of course. "Many people" is always legit.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by cartman

He also said if you see an article about him quoting "sources" to not believe it, there are no sources and it is all lies.

But if "many people are saying"...

He's just going if his own experience.

An 'extremely credible source' has called my office and told me that @BarackObama's birth certificate is a fraud.

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 6, 2012

Something I saw early on w/ Trump: most negative things he says about others are actually describing him. Read his tweets with that in mind

— Tony Schwartz (@tonyschwartz) July 27, 2016

[mckerney]

Trump deposition video set for release - POLITICO

A video of Donald Trump testifying under oath about his provocative rhetoric about Mexicans and other Latinos is set to go public as soon as Friday, drawing new attention to those comments just weeks before voters cast their ballots in the presidential race.
Trump gave the testimony in June at a law office in Washington in connection with one of two lawsuits he filed last year after prominent chefs reacted to the controversy over his remarks by pulling out of plans to open restaurants at his new D.C. hotel.
D.C. Superior Court Judge Brian Holeman said in an order issued Thursday evening that fears the testimony might show up in campaign commercials were no basis to keep the public from seeing the video.

[QuikSand]

Anyone taking odds on the twitterverse having fun with "Holeman" there? DJT himself, even?

[molson]

I'm thinking it's not going to be some campaign-altering bombshell if Trump made some racially insensitive comments at a deposition.

[nol]

Originally Posted by mckerney

D.C. Superior Court Judge Brian Holeman said in an order issued Thursday evening that fears the testimony might show up in campaign commercials were no basis to keep the public from seeing the video.

Would this be showing up in Clinton's or Trump's campaign commercials?

[Subby]

pic.twitter.com/B7OEbTFzJ4

— Dave Itzkoff (@ditzkoff) September 30, 2016

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by nol

Would this be showing up in Clinton's or Trump's campaign commercials?

It was Trumps lawyers arguing this so the fear is it would show up in anti-Trump ads or ones from the Clinton campaign.

Originally Posted by Subby

pic.twitter.com/B7OEbTFzJ4

— Dave Itzkoff (@ditzkoff) September 30, 2016

And after he'd had such positive things to say about a woman with a sex tape in the past

“Now, somebody who a lot of people don’t give credit to but is in actuality very beautiful is Paris Hilton,” Trump told Stern. “I’ve known Paris Hilton from the time she’s 12, her parents are friends of mine, and the first time I saw her she walked into the room and I said, ‘Who the hell is that?’ At 12, I wasn’t interested… but she was beautiful.” He also admitted to watching Paris Hilton’s sex tape with Knauss, despite knowing her since the age of 12 and being very close friends with the Hilton Family.

[CraigSca]

But he loves the Mexicans! He ate a taco one time.

[Ben E Lou]

And here's a twist to feed the conspiracy theorists on Team Trump.

Debate commission confirms 'issues' with Donald Trump’s mic - NY Daily News

[mckerney]

GIULIANI says Trump tonight will "demand that President Obama not pardon Hillary Clinton" for any possible legal issues

— Robert Costa (@costareports) September 30, 2016

This fuckin' guy...

[Subby]

Washington "I cannot tell a lie"
FDR "The only thing we have to fear-"
JFK "Ask not what your country can do-"
Trump "check out sex tape" https://t.co/bcBroj9Ofr

— Dave Itzkoff (@ditzkoff) September 30, 2016

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by mckerney

GIULIANI says Trump tonight will "demand that President Obama not pardon Hillary Clinton" for any possible legal issues

— Robert Costa (@costareports) September 30, 2016

This fuckin' guy...

Ought to make that point in both directions honestly, that she promises not to pardon him either.

This is a definite slam dunk positive with his voters & could be an minor energy boost for a few days.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Ought to make that point in both directions honestly

Yes, I was thinking he would have to promise not to pardon Trump either.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Subby

Yes, I was thinking he would have to promise not to pardon Trump either.

Eh, seems reasonable to think that isn't going to happen so probably fair enough to skip over it. Kinda like not including a unicorn clause in a contract, ya know.

[SirFozzie]

Turns out that the Sex Tape that Donald wants you to check out is the one HE'S in, not that Miss Universe. Thankfully, he's not in the sexually explicit parts.

Donald Trump Appeared In A 2000 Playboy Softcore Porn - BuzzFeed News

[Thomkal]

I'm surprised it took the media that long to find that.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

I'm surprised it took the media that long to find that.

It would have required a conversation in the newsroom along the lines of, "Hey guys, don't ask how I know this but there's some porn from 16 years ago with Donald Trump in it," so I'm not all that surprised

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by nol

It would have required a conversation in the newsroom along the lines of, "Hey guys, don't ask how I know this but there's some porn from 16 years ago with Donald Trump in it," so I'm not all that surprised

well I suppose they waited to see if he would go that route so they could use it against him too.

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

I'm surprised it took the media that long to find that.

I'm assuming nobody ever looked at his IMDB page.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by nol

It would have required a conversation in the newsroom along the lines of, "Hey guys, don't ask how I know this but there's some porn from 16 years ago with Donald Trump in it," so I'm not all that surprised

nice

[cuervo72]

Pfft, "porn." It's a Playboy video.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Pfft, "porn." It's a Playboy video.

This.

[JPhillips]

There's at least a ten percent chance that somewhere out there Trump and Snoop host a tentacle porn video.

[JPhillips]

I expect we'll hear this quote again from Trump's former accountant,

“Here the guy was building incredible net worth and not paying tax on it,”

From the NYTimes story on Trumps 916 million write off.

[flere-imsaho]

JPhillips, could you comment on how Trump's possible porn career is related to his NAMBLA ties?

[larrymcg421]

So apparently the tax returns were sent to the NY times from the Trump Tower.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

So apparently the tax returns were sent to the NY times from the Trump Tower.

Bombshell report on Trump taxes sends GOP nominee reeling - POLITICO

[Subby]

How much graft is going on that you can't run a successful casino enterprise?

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

So apparently the tax returns were sent to the NY times from the Trump Tower.

A trap play set by Trump that the media and left will eat up. Seems to be the hallmark of Trump, and it usually works out for him in the polls.

[BishopMVP]

Smart play by Trump. Forget the issues - isn't my opponent condescending and mean to you? At this point I expect him to put out a 60 second loop of her falling on her way back to the SUV in the final week.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

A trap play set by Trump that the media and left will eat up. Seems to be the hallmark of Trump, and it usually works out for him in the polls.

So what exactly is the trap here assuming the returns are leaked by Trump? It just seems like damaging information to me.