2009 MLB Regular Season Thread

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Sure it shown in Atlanta, DC, and Miami, but do you really think a significant number of viewers in those areas were even planning to watch any baseball that day?

About the same number that watched anywhere else. Nobody stayed home just to watch the Mets, Phillies, Tiger, Twins, Dodgers, Padres, or anybody else yesterday.

I understand your point about Manny being the bigger story and agree.

Hey, that's all I've been saying.

However, it's more my frustration with national pre-emptive rights to local markets on the weekends. ... I know the reasons why, but it won't prevent my bitching.

That's a whole different kettle of fish, you're welcome to bitch on that point if it makes you feel better.

[Chief Rum]

Eight pitchers who belong in the All Star game more than Wakefield:

For reference: Wakefield (10-3, 4.30 ERA, 1.35 WHIP, OPSA .719, ERA+ 108)

Jered Weaver (8-3, 3.10, 1.13 whip, opsa .652, era+ 144)
Kevin Millwood (8-5, 2.80, 1.24 whip, opsa .705, era+ 158)
Nick Blackburn (7-4, 2.94, 1.30 whip, opsa .711, era+ 131)
Matt Garza (6-5, 3.49, 1.18 whip, opsa .656, era+ 129)
James Shields (6-6, 3.50, 1.27 whip, opsa .756, era+ 127)
John Danks (7-6, 3.76, 1.23 whip, opsa .683, era+ 122)
CC Sabathia (6-5, 3.85, 1.15 whip, opsa .642, era+ 114)
Brian Bannister (6-6, 3.87, 1.30 whip, opsa .683, era+ 109)

That's just starters. I also skipped over anyone with a sub-.500 record who otherwise deserved, such as Cliff Lee, Jarrod Washburn and Dallas Braden. I didn't consider some other pitchers--closers--having great seasons, like Bobby Jenks, George Sherrill, David Aardsma, Frank Francisco and Joakim Soria. And I didn't include anyone who is at least comparable to be considered with Wakefield, like AJ Burnett, CC Sabathia, Jon Lester, Andy Pettitte.

Incidentally, several of the starters above also have better stats than Josh Beckett, but I have less of an issue including him. After going through this, I think Millwood has even more of a case to be pissed than Weaver.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

There are always guys who can make a case to be on the roster. I would hardly call Wakefield undeserving as mentioned above. He's having a really good season.

I actually like Wakefield. I like the story, and he's never been a bad guy. And I am not saying he's having a bad season, he's not, he's doing quite well.

But there are a ton of players more deserving than him. If it was one or two, it would be one thing, but, damn, just look at my last post for some excellent examples of guys staying home next week who by all rights should be in this game over Wakefield, any one of them.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Millwood would have been a better option than Wakefield. I can't believe he's using wins to justify Wakefield.

Yup, I dicovered this while researching to counter DT. Millwood's actually the guy with the biggest gripe, and that's coming from an Angels fan.

[MizzouRah]

Wins have always been the "sexy" stat as far as pitching goes. I believe Chris Carpenter belongs in the All Star game.. but I've heard a few reporters who say his last two losses (no run support) cost him his chance - and like some of you, I agree that is complete bs... BUT it's not going to change anytime soon.

[larrymcg421]

Also irritating. No Braves pitcher made it. Jurrjens and his 154 ERA+ gets left out in favor of guys like Santana (127) and Billingsley (134), almost certainly because of his 6-6 record.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Wins have always been the "sexy" stat as far as pitching goes. I believe Chris Carpenter belongs in the All Star game.. but I've heard a few reporters who say his last two losses (no run support) cost him his chance - and like some of you, I agree that is complete bs... BUT it's not going to change anytime soon.

yeah. we can sit here and bitch about WHIP and ERA+ and advanced metrics, but the bottom line is so few people in the game are conversant in those stats, and they're certainly not about to choose All Stars or Gold Gloves or Silver Sluggers or anything based on advanced metrics. that's why Jeter keeps winning Gold Gloves at shortstop even though he doesn't deserve them

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Also irritating. No Braves pitcher made it. Jurrjens and his 154 ERA+ gets left out in favor of guys like Santana (127) and Billingsley (134), almost certainly because of his 6-6 record.

And even on the ajc.com poll as of a little while ago just over half the respondents said McCann was indeed the only Brave deserving of being an All-Star. You can bet his 6-6 record has a lot to do with that. If he was 9-3 there'd be a lot more people up in arms.

I think it gets lost sometimes how few people -- those who buy tickets, those who watch games, those who watch the All-Star game -- have any idea that ERA+ isn't a laundry detergent or that outside of fantasy baseball players that WHIP isn't something used by athletes with some serious strange sex lives.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

yeah. we can sit here and bitch about WHIP and ERA+ and advanced metrics, but the bottom line is so few people in the game are conversant in those stats, and they're certainly not about to choose All Stars or Gold Gloves or Silver Sluggers or anything based on advanced metrics. that's why Jeter keeps winning Gold Gloves at shortstop even though he doesn't deserve them

Right, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't still be upset about it or stop talking about it, and that's not a response to someone saying Wakefield is undeserving. It just means he's deserving under the stupid criteria that most people use.

[DaddyTorgo]

can we talk more about how the douchebag steroid-cheaters Aroid and ManRam aren't invited to the game and how happy that makes me??

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I think Wakefield made it over Weaver because he's more clutch and has more wins.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

can we talk more about how the douchebag steroid-cheaters Aroid and ManRam aren't invited to the game and how happy that makes me??

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And even on the ajc.com poll as of a little while ago just over half the respondents said McCann was indeed the only Brave deserving of being an All-Star. You can bet his 6-6 record has a lot to do with that. If he was 9-3 there'd be a lot more people up in arms.

I think it gets lost sometimes how few people -- those who buy tickets, those who watch games, those who watch the All-Star game -- have any idea that ERA+ isn't a laundry detergent or that outside of fantasy baseball players that WHIP isn't something used by athletes with some serious strange sex lives.

LOL, and quite true. It is unfortunate how Wins get used. At least Quality Starts should be easy enough to understand. Jurrijens, who is a fantasic pitcher, gets screwed because the Braves offense sucks horribly. How is that fair at all?

[miked]

I can't believe a 4.30 ERA is All-Star-worthy. Plus, he has like 50 Ks. What a joke. Santana over Jurrjens is at least semi-justifiable. I don't know what would possess them to select Wakefield other than the Red Sox score runs when he pitches. He's so below average, they don't even use him in the playoffs unless all other options are exhausted.

[ISiddiqui]

The NL Pitchers seem stranger and stranger to me as I look at them. Jurrijens doesn't make it, but neither does Gallardo? The guy who not only has a 154 ERA+ (2.75 ERA), but an 8-5 record? Neither Johnny Cueto, who has a 165 ERA+ (2.69 ERA), but an 8-4 record? Though I understand why Ted Lilly had to go (they had to fill a Cubs spot), Marquis was unnecessary (as Colorado already had Hawpe). I can even see Billingsley (Dodgers are by far the best team in the NL, so give 'em more). Santana should have been asked to take a seat, but I wonder if Manuel was scared that the Mets would consider it a snub and use it as bulletin board material or something.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Good to see a year where the All-Star player from the Royals is at least deserving of that honor rather than being added to comply with a rule. Congrats to Zack on his great 1st half of the year.

[Dr. Sak]

Phils explode on the Reds...10-0 after one inning.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

Phils explode on the Reds...10-0 after one inning.

I guess Cole can't complain about a lack of run support tonight.

[Dr. Sak]

Especially when he drove 2 in himself.

[ISiddiqui]

And after I just sang the praises of Cueto... of course.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Santana should have been asked to take a seat, but I wonder if Manuel was scared that the Mets would consider it a snub and use it as bulletin board material or something.

Not likely. Manuel went with Santana because Santana gives him a better chance to win the game than Cueto or Jurrjens. For the managers (at least those still in the playoffs), they're going to go with the pitchers that they think give them the best chance to win, not those who necessarily deserve to be there.

Besides, I think you're giving Manuel too much credit. I love the guy, but I doubt he's smart enough to worry about potential bulletin board material to the mets.

[DaddyTorgo]

bah - smoltzy is looking mortal in his first fenway start

[sterlingice]

The Royals traded cash and a PTBNL for Ryan Freel today for reasons that elude... everyone.

SI

[RedKingGold]

Philly might just drop a 20-spot on the Reds. Hopefully, this means only good things.

[RedKingGold]

Make that a 22-spot.

[larrymcg421]

It's a shame that Hamels didn't pitch to the score and allow 21 runs so we could potentially hear Joe Morgan argue that it's just as hard to win 22-21 as it is to win 1-0.

[Dr. Sak]

Hamels scored more runs tonight with his bat than the Reds did.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

It's a shame that we ever face the possibility of hearing Joe Morgan.

Fixed that for you.

[hoopsguy]

Jason Marquis, scoffing as his FOFC critics, continues to work his first half magic as he has gone 8 shutout innings against Washington. On the verge of back-to-back shutout wins, with this one being at Coors.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Jason Marquis, scoffing as his FOFC critics, continues to work his first half magic as he has gone 8 shutout innings against Washington. On the verge of back-to-back shutout wins, with this one being at Coors.

Good for Jason!

[hoopsguy]

In all seriousness, the Marquis track record suggests that he'll be substantially worse in the second half. That plus Coors Field could get really, really scary. But Colorado has to be ecstatic with what they have gotten out of him so far.

[Crapshoot]

VOTE FOR PABLO!

He just hit a grand slam. Kalifornia, I expect those 500 votes!@

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by miked

I can't believe a 4.30 ERA is All-Star-worthy. Plus, he has like 50 Ks. What a joke. Santana over Jurrjens is at least semi-justifiable. I don't know what would possess them to select Wakefield other than the Red Sox score runs when he pitches. He's so below average, they don't even use him in the playoffs unless all other options are exhausted.

Actually I'd say he's the textbook definition of league average. The one point in his favor vs. other starters is he can be thrown out there on whatever rest and throw however many innings if it goes extras like last year. Beckett (and some others) is scheduled to start the 12th and I don't want him possibly thrown out there late because they're running out of pitchers.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

VOTE FOR PABLO!

He just hit a grand slam. Kalifornia, I expect those 500 votes!@

Hahahahaha. Yeahhhh. Well...I've got my plans for tomorrow. Hope my fingers don't fall off. If it helps get Pablito into the ASG, then it's worth it.

[miked]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

The Royals traded cash and a PTBNL for Ryan Freel today for reasons that elude... everyone.

SI

During the Braves game, they said Francoeur to the Royals was a rumor with legs, as the Moore was involved in drafting him. That would be epic. I think they mentioned that a Guillen/Francoeur swap would be a possibility, in which case the Braves would be silly.

[Ksyrup]

They've been talking about Francoeur to the Royals for a couple of months. Rany (I think - there are so many Royals-centric bloggers out there) even wrote an article attempting to justify it several weeks ago.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

The Royals traded cash and a PTBNL for Ryan Freel today for reasons that elude... everyone.

SI

I don't think it's too bad. The Cubs are paying his entire salary. The Royals get a veteran utility guy who will likely warrant no more than a single or double-A minor league player when all is said and done.

My guess is that they're going to move a Teahan or Guillen in the near future and want a defensive guy to cover all positions in the outfield in addition to a backup SS now that Aviles is out.

Nice 3 game win streak for the boys in blue. Hope they keep it going.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

The Royals traded cash and a PTBNL for Ryan Freel today for reasons that elude... everyone.

SI

Wait until he starts talking about Farney. Freel may have run into the wall a few too many times.

[sterlingice]

I've already read some about Farney. Just think, he can talk to crazy personal Farny and relief pitcher, game blower extraordinaire Farnsy on the same team.

Yeah, the only thing people can come up with for why this move was done is that he's basically free- the prospect they trade better not be worth anything- and that someone else is about to be moved and they need a warm body to take the field.

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Yeah, the only thing people can come up with for why this move was done is that he's basically free- the prospect they trade better not be worth anything- and that someone else is about to be moved and they need a warm body to take the field.

SI

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they can also negotiate it to a cash deal as well, can they not?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they can also negotiate it to a cash deal as well, can they not?

I never saw any language saying that but that doesn't mean it's possible. I thought the trade was cash considerations + a player to be named later. It doesn't make any sense for the Cubs to just dump him and pay his salary- they would have just cut him then, correct?

SI

[Ksyrup]

Anyone see the story about the ump who was stupid enough to tell Jeter he was out not because he was tagged, but because the ball beat him to the bag so he didn't have to be tagged? I know that's gone on for years (although apparently it was actually allowed in years past but now is not supposed to be), but what kind of moron says something like that out loud?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I never saw any language saying that but that doesn't mean it's possible. I thought the trade was cash considerations + a player to be named later. It doesn't make any sense for the Cubs to just dump him and pay his salary- they would have just cut him then, correct?

SI

I guess my scenario was that the Royals might reimburse some of that salary depending on performance.

I'm not worried about any good prospects being moved. If we're moving a decent prospect, it's likely because he played like an All-Star the second half of the season. There's a reason you never hear about teams arguing too much about 'player to be named later'. They're not expecting much in return outside of a warm body.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I guess my scenario was that the Royals might reimburse some of that salary depending on performance.

I'm not worried about any good prospects being moved. If we're moving a decent prospect, it's likely because he played like an All-Star the second half of the season. There's a reason you never hear about teams arguing too much about 'player to be named later'. They're not expecting much in return outside of a warm body.

When a PTBNL is included in a deal, both teams agree on a list of players that the receiving team will be able to select from down the road. So it won't matter how Freel performs.

Some PTBNLs have turned into good players, although its obviously rare. Sometimes you'll see a more talented guy go is if he's not eligible to be traded or hurt.

[Ksyrup]

Supposedly the PTBNL that the Padres are getting from the A's in the Hairston deal is a good player, possibly the best player of the three (Padres fans hope, anyway).

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Supposedly the PTBNL that the Padres are getting from the A's in the Hairston deal is a good player, possibly the best player of the three (Padres fans hope, anyway).

Same with the Cards and the Mark DeRosa deal- the player going back to Cleveland along with Perez was supposed to be a "substantial" player to be named later- or some such similar language.

SI

[NoSkillz]

News out of Toronto that J.P. Ricciardi will listen to offers for Roy Halladay.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=283950

[Ksyrup]

Every team listens to offers about every player. You would be stupid not to. I doubt any team would be willing or able to meet the price for Halladay. If they trade him for less than an overwhelming package, then it is clear they were actively shopping him. If they get a great deal, then that just means the potential of the players they got outweighed another year and a half worth of Halladay (plus a potential mega-bucks deal after that, compared to 3 or 4 cheap players under team control for 3-6 years).

[Travis]

I know every team should listen, but really, if JP is in Toronto longer than Doc and there is no career ending injury involved I might just be done as a fan until JP leaves the organization.

Call it an over reaction or being dramatic or whatever you like, but this guy is absolutely killing me as a fan.

[lungs]

Brewers say Gamel and Escobar are untouchable but if it's Roy Halladay we are talking about here you'd think they'd reconsider.

Beats those silly Braves fans I've been hearing thinking that any package for Javier Vazquez ought to include Prince Fielder or Ryan Braun.