The Trump Presidency – 2016

[albionmoonlight]

It was a total political fuck up by Pelosi.

[Castlerock]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Is what she did worse than Pence showing up to a hospital without a mask, or Trump holding a rally in Tulsa, or this administration, enabled by these downballot republicans, resisting masks for months when it could have made a real difference?

Whataboutism is part of the reason we are where we are.

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

She should take the high road. “I shouldn’t have done that, and I’m sorry.” Period. End of discussion.

She made a mistake. Own it.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Castlerock

Whataboutism is part of the reason we are where we are.

.

So only the right can do that.

got it.

[miked]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Me.

I am a Pro-Life biblical evangelical (not the kind that the media calls evangelical despite the fact that the great majority of them couldn’t articulate and exegete a sliver of basic orthodoxy if their life depended on it,) living in a swing state strongly considering voting for Biden, and perhaps even a straight D ticket to punish the Republicans for bowing their heads to Trump. The *top* Dem in the country demanding an apology from a hair salon owner for setting her up makes it less likely that I’ll go straight D. It doesn’t move the needle for me on Biden, but it absolutely could change some of my downballot votes from D to L or R.

If that's really what moves the needle, I would argue you had no real intention of voting straight D anyway. I mean, let's call dog poop dog poop. It's likely a nothingburger of a mistake, I have not read a single thing but I would imagine she was told that the place would be empty for her and something of the sort...and boom gotcha.

But sure, vote for the guys pardoning friends who essentially committed treason, hiding intelligence to help their re-election, fucking up pandemics, and generally turning the executive branch in to an authoritarian sanctuary because somebody 3000 miles away that you do not vote for anyway did not wear a mask to a salon.

[kingfc22]

The same people saying no haircuts was akin to tyranny all have their pitch forks out because Fox News says so.

Anti-lockdown demonstrators trade guns for scissors at Michigan 'haircut' protest

And yes Pelosi is a moron for even putting herself in that position and her reply was just as bad. But spare the righteous indignation coming from those who have given Trump a free pass for four years.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Castlerock

The electoral college can be EFFECTIVELY abolished by the National Popular Vote interstate compact.
https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/...-2020-2-13.pdf

A very good explanation is here: The Sneaky Plan to Subvert the Electoral College for the Next Election - YouTube

Never be passed as long as R s hold at least more than a third of the house. You need 2/3 rds to ratify it.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Never be passed as long as R s hold at least more than a third of the house. You need 2/3 rds to ratify it.

They only need enough states to sign on that collectively add up to 270 electoral votes. It's not an attempt to change the electoral college, just an agreement in how to apportion a state's own electoral votes.

But it might not be constitutional.

[JPhillips]

Trump signed a letter today directing the federal government to withhold all funding from areas the Attorney General declares to be anarchist zones. I'm sure it will get tied up in court quickly, but holy hell.

In other news, also, Trump told his supporters in NC to try to vote twice, by mail and in person to make sure one of them is counted.

[Ksyrup]

And AG Barr didn't know if it was illegal to vote twice in NC.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

And AG Barr didn't know if it was illegal to vote twice in NC.

But her emails...
But Obama...
But her haircut...

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

As I think it's been mentioned a couple of times, no Biden polling lead is going to give him the lead on election night, and that's really problematic. If you don't think there aren't going to be injunctions filed in every state the night of the election to stop the counting there and if that doesn't work, months worth of lawsuits to invalidate various results... it's going to be a shitshow of epic proportions, and I'm still not very confident it ends up with a Biden win (even winning the popular vote by 4-5%)

I don't know. If that happens you no longer live in a democracy. The idea that we have to make the optics good to appease authoritarians and fascists is silly.

All we can do is follow the laws and if it doesn't work, we are in some uncharted territory.

[Galaril]

So let’s say Biden wins the popular vote by 10 million votes and 5%but loses a key state like Florida do have mail in votes purged by the Republican governor. Does this Cold Civil War get hot? I assume Trump will deploy the active duty Army if it did. It sounds crazy but we really aren’t that far from things unraveling if we aren't careful.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I don't think it's a big deal and Sanders knew what she was getting into,

but, it's work and that's pretty clearly harassment. It isn't something we should see as appropriate.

Take away the fact that one is a woman, and it’s just people who work together having a joke. No pressure to actually do it, no touching, no nothing - clearly just taking the piss.

People shouldn’t be outraged at everything the boogeyman does, as eventually we get outraged through duty rather than because it was outrageous.

Then things that deserve attention and scrutiny get lost in the midst of all the faux reactions

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Lathum

So only the right can do that.

got it.

I think Castlerock is saying no one should do it. Which is true.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by AlexB

Take away the fact that one is a woman, and it’s just people who work together having a joke. No pressure to actually do it, no touching, no nothing - clearly just taking the piss.

People shouldn’t be outraged at everything the boogeyman does, as eventually we get outraged through duty rather than because it was outrageous.

Then things that deserve attention and scrutiny get lost in the midst of all the faux reactions

Not sure how it works in the UK, but in the US that's absolutely going to result in something between discipline and firing if it's reported. Putting into the book seems to show pretty clearly that she was uncomfortable. You can't take the fact that she's a woman out, that's what makes the comment harassment.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Lathum

So only the right can do that.

got it.

I hear what you are saying but I am reading what Ben and others are saying as if both sides do it, I might as well go with the side that I agree with more. I am not saying that going to the beauty parlor and not following the protocols is the same as the things as pardoning criminals. I do think there are levels to this but we are moving more and more to black/white than shades of gray.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I think Castlerock is saying no one should do it. Which is true.

I agree but this is a street brawl at this point and if Trump and the right are going to use these tactics at some point the left has to beat them at their own game.

[Ksyrup]

Bits and pieces of information like this are the most interesting to me:

More than 250,000 Pennsylvanians have already requested a ballot for the general election.

1 in 5 of those voters didn't vote in the 2016 election.

Among those surge voters, Democrats outnumber Republicans by a 3 to 1 margin.

48% of the D surge voters are under the age of 35.

— Tom Bonier (@tbonier) September 3, 2020

[Kodos]

Those things sound encouraging.

[Kodos]

I agree with Ben. She screwed up and should have owned it. I'm very liberal, but I frequently find comments from some people who are "on my side" to be annoying. I can imagine that'd be much worse if you're holding your nose to do the right thing for our country and vote for a guy who you don't like a bunch. So let's be the side that can admit it if we fuck up. Yes, Trump and the Republicans have done a litany of hideous and stupid things. We all know that. That doesn't excuse someone on the left when they do something dumb. Own up to it and move on. Don't give people who are reluctantly on our side this time a reason to change their mind.

[BYU 14]

Yeah, that's over 37 thousand votes that were not there for Clinton. The difference in 2016 was 44,292. Those votes can definitely be a game changer.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Not sure how it works in the UK, but in the US that's absolutely going to result in something between discipline and firing if it's reported. Putting into the book seems to show pretty clearly that she was uncomfortable. You can't take the fact that she's a woman out, that's what makes the comment harassment.

Maybe it is different, or maybe I see it different, but that to me is a comment that could be made to men or women

I work in a 95% male office, and we've joked about taking one for the team to get an order - that's why I don't see it as gender specific.

But I bow to local knowledge on US law, and I might be thinking of it more from a discrimination angle than harassment TBF

[spleen1015]

Context matters with that comment.

[ISiddiqui]

I can easily see Pelosi being pissed though. California these days allows salon rules to be set county by county. The county this salon was in was only allowing outdoors appointments starting Tuesday. The third party that the owner rents a chair to told Pelosi, they are allowed to have indoor salon appointments if there is only one person.

Now, she shouldn't have responded in anger, but it's fair for her to say she was informed it was ok, but apologize for not realizing that it wasn't.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by Galaril

So let’s say Biden wins the popular vote by 10 million votes and 5%but loses a key state like Florida do have mail in votes purged by the Republican governor. Does this Cold Civil War get hot? I assume Trump will deploy the active duty Army if it did. It sounds crazy but we really aren’t that far from things unraveling if we aren't careful.

That's not going to happen. It makes for intriguing cinema, like "Seven Days in May", but not a realistic real-life scenario. The following quotes from this article address this issue.

"The Constitution and laws of the US and the states establish procedures for carrying out elections, and for resolving disputes over the outcome of elections ... I do not see the US military as part of this process,"

"In the event of a dispute over some aspect of the elections, by law U.S. courts and the U.S. Congress are required to resolve any disputes, not the U.S. Military,"

"We have a Constitution, and our Constitution, which all members of the military have sworn an oath to, provides no role for the US military as arbiter of political or election disputes,"

"This issue appears to be born of unserious thought reflecting a fundamental lack of appreciation for the history of our democracy and the civilian-military relationship established under our Constitution,"

Top US general tells Congress the military won't play a role in the 2020 election

[Castlerock]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Never be passed as long as R s hold at least more than a third of the house. You need 2/3 rds to ratify it.

Originally Posted by molson

They only need enough states to sign on that collectively add up to 270 electoral votes. It's not an attempt to change the electoral college, just an agreement in how to apportion a state's own electoral votes.

But it might not be constitutional.

Correct on both. Congress is not involved at all. This is strictly state legislatures. There already 15 states that have passed it. 74 more electoral votes are needed to trigger it in states that passed it.

There is debate as to whether it is constitutional. It would certainly be challenged.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

"This issue appears to be born of unserious thought reflecting a fundamental lack of appreciation for the history of our democracy and the civilian-military relationship established under our Constitution,"

Top US general tells Congress the military won't play a role in the 2020 election

While I appreciate these comments, this last comment feels like a commentary about the Trump administration - like, things that they are actually doing or threatening to do. So, it doesn't make me all that comforted.

[Ben E Lou]

And to be fair, that may or may not even be the best strategy for winning. Maybe for every 10 nose-holders alienated by it, doubling down and demanding an apology gains you 12 left-leaning voters who want you to fight as dirty as Team Trump does but thought you were too soft. If that’s the calculus here, then so be it. I get that you have to compromise your integrity to win. But the specific question was does this move the needle for anyone, and it does for me.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

While I appreciate these comments, this last comment feels like a commentary about the Trump administration - like, things that they are actually doing or threatening to do. So, it doesn't make me all that comforted.

We are not Venezuela. I am very concerned over the divisiveness in our country right now, but I do trust the integrity of our military officials to do the right thing and steer clear of involvement in civilian issues.

[spleen1015]

That is how I would expect Trump to handle the situation. Instead of accepting responsibility, just attack the other person.

In this election, that doesn't matter to me. Trump needs to go and anyone who hasn't held him accountable needs to go as well.

I have in the past just voted straight Republican. A lot of times I don't even care about half of the races and just vote for the Republican. This election, I won't vote for anyone who supports Trump. So, I am doing my homework.

I understand that other folks can feel differently though.

[Vegas Vic]

Nice to see Pelosi take ownership and apologize for "falling for a setup."

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Perhaps with the left lean of this forum, it’s hard for some of y’all to imagine that there are Biden/Dem nose-holders. (“I get how someone would have to hold their nose to vote for a Republican, but no one has to hold their nose to vote for MY side!”)

A large percentage of "Republicans for Biden" probably fall into this category.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

That is how I would expect Trump to handle the situation. Instead of accepting responsibility, just attack the other person.

In this election, that doesn't matter to me. Trump needs to go and anyone who hasn't held him accountable needs to go as well.

I have in the past just voted straight Republican. A lot of times I don't even care about half of the races and just vote for the Republican. This election, I won't vote for anyone who supports Trump. So, I am doing my homework.

I understand that other folks can feel differently though.

I would love a headline where Trump says he was set up by his hairdresser.

[JPhillips]

I'm not at all worried about the military.

I am worried about what happens with the big Biden popular vote win and a narrow Trump EC win. I don't think that ends well.

[Vegas Vic]

Interesting shift this week in the betting markets for US President.

Trump increased his lead at the betting shops having overtaken Biden as the favorite this week. He’s now a -121 favorite. Biden, who had built a large lead all summer, fell back even more to +100.

It’s tough to speculate on the cause and effect of such line movements in politics. Such a drastic improvement in Trump’s odds over the past month could indicate a lot of money being bet on Trump, especially when he was at a low-point around +160 in late July.

Bookmakers need to balance their true beliefs on a game or political race with mitigating risk. The big odds swing could be more a result of big Trump bets than actual politics of late. Bear in mind that while Trump is favored as a candidate, the generic "Democrats vs. Republicans" to win the White House is even at -110.

Trump Lead Grows: Presidential Election Odds Daily Tracker

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

That's not going to happen.

Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me 423,544,544 times since the beginning of this adminstration, shame on... I don't believe that the military would get involved either. However, I did not think I would see members of the national guard using force against the protesters so the president can have a photo op.

[albionmoonlight]

I'm not worried about the Military stepping in. The Military won't. The Military has sense and honor and cares about the United States of America.

But Trump's got his personal militia of "I wasn't qualified to get a job as a security guard at Wal-Mart, so I joined the Border Patrol" goons.

Those are the guys who worry me. Picture the Brooks Brothers riot, but the rioters have guns and start shooting people who are trying to count votes.

[JPhillips]

Based on the massive number of Unsolicited & Solicited Ballots that will be sent to potential Voters for the upcoming 2020 Election, & in order for you to MAKE SURE YOUR VOTE COUNTS & IS COUNTED, SIGN & MAIL IN your Ballot as EARLY as possible.

Trump must have been told his, don't vote, strategy is scaring his voters, too.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Perhaps with the left lean of this forum, it’s hard for some of y’all to imagine that there are Biden/Dem nose-holders. (“I get how someone would have to hold their nose to vote for a Republican, but no one has to hold their nose to vote for MY side!”)

You must not be following the race if you think lefties aren't talking about holding their nose to vote for Biden, LOL!

[Kodos]

I don't know anyone who had Biden as their first choice. But he's who we got, and I am 100% behind him.

[kingfc22]

It’s hard to keep up with the shifting gentle breeze.

So mail-in voting is not wrought with fraud and is now encouraged?

[Ksyrup]

This will be closely followed by taking all of the Dem mail boxes that were removed and putting them in GOP districts.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I don't know anyone who had Biden as their first choice. But he's who we got, and I am 100% behind him.

Kamala Harris dropped out of the 2020 presidential primaries when her support dropped to 2% in the polls, yet now she is the supposed front runner for the 2024 nomination.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

Nice to see Pelosi take ownership and apologize for "falling for a setup."

Too little too late. That news cycle already did the GOP favors.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

This will be closely followed by taking all of the Dem mail boxes that were removed and putting them in GOP districts.

From your lips to DeJoys ears

SI

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Pelosi is going with the Marion Berry "BITCH SET ME UP" defense.

Yep, she was set up by that nefarious right-wing conspiracy group “Hairdressers of Northern California.”

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

Yep, she was set up by that nefarious right-wing conspiracy group “Hairdressers of Northern California.”

The perfect plants

[NobodyHere]

Cuomo: Trump 'better have an army' in NYC if he cuts federal funding | TheHill

Please don't give Donald any ideas Cuomo. Trump is going to take this as practically begging to send troops.

[albionmoonlight]

It was really stupid by Pelosi.

And her aggressive non-apology was also stupid.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

It was really stupid by Pelosi.

And her aggressive non-apology was also stupid.

I really look at her as almost as big a clown as Trump sometimes with her theatrics (Kente cloth, ripping up the SOTU) and hypocrisy (This)

Quite frankly her time has passed as well.