The Trump Presidency – 2016

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Many Democrats would embrace the notion of US becoming a socialist nation.

Except when FOX News talks about socialism they make their base think we will turn out like Venezuela.

[tarcone]

Lack of leadership from both parties in this next election.

Whatever happens it will not be good for the country.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Except when FOX News talks about socialism they make their base think we will turn out like Venezuela.

That's generally how socialism works out.

[tarcone]

Sorry I am posting here, but my lord this is a fantastic debate. These 3 outsiders are going after the incumbent. And hammering him.

The black woman is winning right now and she has the least amount of money or pull.

Sorry about posting here and you guys have no idea what I am talking about, but I cant find a message board pertaining to this. So bea with me.

[tarcone]

The big money guy is a lawyer and a shitty public speaker. Lots of Uhs and stumbles.

[tarcone]

Wow. There is a town in north St Louis county with a life expectancy of 55.

That is 3rd world type numbers

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by tarcone

One day Amazon will be the US president and Google will be the Vice president.

We the people will just be pawns in a system of ever growing profiteering.

"You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, Mr. Beale, and I won't have it! Is that clear? You think you've merely stopped a business deal. That is not the case! The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back! It is ebb and flow, tidal gravity! It is ecological balance! You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no third worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multivariate, multinational dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds, and shekels. It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic and subatomic and galactic structure of things today! And YOU have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and YOU... WILL... ATONE! Am I getting through to you, Mr. Beale? You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM, and ITT, and AT&T, and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today. What do you think the Russians talk about in their councils of state, Karl Marx? They get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do. We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bylaws of business. The world is a business, Mr. Beale. It has been since man crawled out of the slime. And our children will live, Mr. Beale, to see that... perfect world... in which there's no war or famine, oppression or brutality. One vast and ecumenical holding company, for whom all men will work to serve a common profit, in which all men will hold a share of stock. All necessities provided, all anxieties tranquilized, all boredom amused."

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I've seen multiple people on different parts of the internet suggest that if Trump loses in November that Christianity is going to get outlawed over the past few days. The persecution complex and general fear these people live in day to day is starting to boil over as the polling continues to look bad for Trump.

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

By noted Catholic, Joe Biden, no less.

War on Christmas starts early this year.

I guess when the band's new album drags the concert down, you gotta break out the greatest hits.

SI

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Many Democrats would embrace the notion of US becoming a socialist nation.

Like who? I think many wish we were more like Europe which is superior to us in most metrics. But i don't think there is full on support for socialism.

[NobodyHere]

AOC and her fans for one

[RainMaker]

AOC is not a socialist based on her policies.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

AOC is not a socialist based on her policies.

She calls herself a democratic socialist. I'll take her word for it.

And while we're at it lets go to the polls

https://news.gallup.com/poll/240725/...apitalism.aspx

[BYU 14]

AOC can be wacky with some of her ideas, but she is not full socialist and is one of those Rainmaker mentioned in the post prior to yours that supports a system in line with many Scandinavian countries

[RainMaker]

Yes I will take her word for it. She doesn't call for the nationalization of any private industries. A centerpiece of socialism.

She is basically what the left is in Europe. Or a New Deal liberal. Not what I would consider socialism.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

And while we're at it lets go to the polls

https://news.gallup.com/poll/240725/...apitalism.aspx

This is a problem.

In order to score short term political gains, the GOP for years has called anything to the left of the Koch Brothers socialist.

Obama adopts the market-based health care program first implemented by his Republican opponent, and people jump up and down and call it socialist.

So what happens? People see a market-based program expand health coverage and reduce costs (which, of course it did because capitalism works). And they keep hearing that that's socialism. So they think "Hey, I like improved quality and reduced cost. I guess that means I like socialism."

The GOP's toxic rhetoric will take generations to cleanse from our system.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

She calls herself a democratic socialist. I'll take her word for it.

And while we're at it lets go to the polls

https://news.gallup.com/poll/240725/...apitalism.aspx

FWIW, here's a definition.

Democratic socialism - Wikipedia

Democratic socialism is a political philosophy supporting political democracy within a socially owned economy,[1] with a particular emphasis on economic democracy, workplace democracy and workers' self-management[2] within a market socialist economy or some form of a decentralised planned socialist economy.[3] Democratic socialists argue that capitalism is inherently incompatible with the values of freedom, equality and solidarity and that these ideals can only be achieved through the realisation of a socialist society.[4] Although most democratic socialists seek a gradual transition to socialism,[5] democratic socialism can support either revolutionary or reformist politics as means to establish socialism.[6] As a term, it was popularised by social democrats who were opposed to the authoritarian socialist development in Russia and elsewhere during the 20th century.[7]

While having socialism as a long-term goal,[27] some democratic socialists who follow social democracy are more concerned to curb capitalism's excesses and are supportive of progressive reforms to humanise it in the present day.[28] In contrast, other democratic socialists believe that economic interventionism and similar policy reforms aimed at addressing social inequalities and suppressing the economic contradictions of capitalism would only exacerbate the contradictions,[29] causing them to emerge elsewhere under a different guise.[30] Those democratic socialists believe that the fundamental issues with capitalism are systemic in nature and can only be resolved by replacing the capitalist mode of production with socialism, i.e. by replacing private ownership with collective ownership of the means of production and extending democracy to the economic sphere in the form of industrial democracy.[31] The main criticism of democratic socialism concerns the compatibility of democracy and socialism.[32]

[Lathum]

You can always trust Edward to come in with a textbook definition.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Many Democrats would embrace the notion of US becoming a socialist nation.

So what would need to happen, specifically, for the U.S. to go from what we are to a "socialist nation"?

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

"You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, Mr. Beale, and I won't have it! Is that clear? You think you've merely stopped a business deal. That is not the case! The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back! It is ebb and flow, tidal gravity! It is ecological balance! You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no third worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multivariate, multinational dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds, and shekels. It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic and subatomic and galactic structure of things today! And YOU have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and YOU... WILL... ATONE! Am I getting through to you, Mr. Beale? You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM, and ITT, and AT&T, and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today. What do you think the Russians talk about in their councils of state, Karl Marx? They get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do. We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bylaws of business. The world is a business, Mr. Beale. It has been since man crawled out of the slime. And our children will live, Mr. Beale, to see that... perfect world... in which there's no war or famine, oppression or brutality. One vast and ecumenical holding company, for whom all men will work to serve a common profit, in which all men will hold a share of stock. All necessities provided, all anxieties tranquilized, all boredom amused."

SI

I finally watched that last week.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Lathum

You can always trust Edward to come in with a textbook definition.

I LOL’d

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

So what would need to happen, specifically, for the U.S. to go from what we are to a "socialist nation"?

Is elect AOC President the obvious answer?

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I finally watched that last week.

Crazy that the more things change, the more they stay the same.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I finally watched that last week.

Some parts of Network are amazingly prescient (and some a bit more a product of the times). I highly recommend it.
SI

[Radii]

Capitalism unhinged is great, as long as you're willing to ignore the suffering of millions, which the entire republican party, and a shockingly sad number of democrats are.

more concerned to curb capitalism's excesses and are supportive of progressive reforms to humanise it in the present day

I consider myself to be here, but the level to which I would like to curb the excesses probably puts me as one of the closest to socialist that still posts on this board at least.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

You can always trust Edward to come in with a textbook definition.

I'll take that as a compliment. Did it help?

[Ksyrup]

It's expected at this point, but the fact that Trump keeps trying to explain the acuity test is both sad and hilarious. Especially since the more he speaks, the more he convinces everyone that the test must have been easy if he passed it.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I know we keep saying this, but... who the hell is this targeting?

The Trump campaign announces it is releasing a “wave” of Spanish-language TV and radio ads, four of them, focused on opposition to Goya Foods after its CEO praised Trump. The campaign is using this situation as an example of Democratic “extremism.”

— Daniel Dale (@ddale8) July 22, 2020

I am a bit late to this but my guess is this is targeting older Latin people specifically the Cuban population. They have not trusted the Dems since the Bay of Pigs and despised Obama for ending the Wet Foot, Dry Foot policy and his attempts to open up Cuba/cozy up to the Communists.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

It's expected at this point, but the fact that Trump keeps trying to explain the acuity test is both sad and hilarious. Especially since the more he speaks, the more he convinces everyone that the test must have been easy if he passed it.

The President continuing to blather on about passing a dementia test and everyone pretending that that is good and normal is the sort of thing that should be in a Kurt Vonnegut novel, not real life.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I am a bit late to this but my guess is this is targeting older Latin people specifically the Cuban population. They have not trusted the Dems since the Bay of Pigs and despised Obama for ending the Wet Foot, Dry Foot policy and his attempts to open up Cuba/cozy up to the Communists.

A lot of Black people and Hispanic people are pretty conservative. If the GOP would just stop being racist, they could gain a lot of voters. (Whether it would be enough to offset the voters they would lose by not being racist is, of course, the $1,000,000 question).

[sterlingice]

CNN, you cheeky devils, you.

Front page stories:

• Story about Trump fumbling the COVID response
• Former Nazi camp guard convicted in Germany
• Portland mayor tear gassed after speaking with protesters on presence of federal agents

SI

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

In order to score short term political gains, the GOP for years has called anything to the left of the Koch Brothers socialist.

Obama adopts the market-based health care program first implemented by his Republican opponent, and people jump up and down and call it socialist.

So what happens? People see a market-based program expand health coverage and reduce costs (which, of course it did because capitalism works). And they keep hearing that that's socialism. So they think "Hey, I like improved quality and reduced cost. I guess that means I like socialism."

Exactly. It doesn't really help, IMO, that AOC and Bernie Sanders kept calling themselves Democratic Socialists instead of Social Democrats. Those terms mean very different things in European politics - the Social Democracy being what they are going for.

[BYU 14]

This should set off a tweet storm

Judge orders Michael Cohen to be released from prison

[molson]

Trump's calculated response to Biden's accusation:

"I have done more for Black Americans than anybody with the possible exception of Abraham Lincoln. Nobody has even been close."

Real quote.

[Ksyrup]

There's just no way...

I mean, this should be right given everything we've seen, but it can't be.

Quinnipiac Florida poll

Biden 51%
Trump 38%https://t.co/hNMnJIUIhq

— Steve Kornacki (@SteveKornacki) July 23, 2020

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

There's just no way...

I mean, this should be right given everything we've seen, but it can't be.

Quinnipiac Florida poll

Biden 51%
Trump 38%https://t.co/hNMnJIUIhq

— Steve Kornacki (@SteveKornacki) July 23, 2020

If Dems can't win Florida with the covid mess, the broken unemployment system, and general disaster DeSantis has been then we should just acknowledge it's a red state now.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I am a bit late to this but my guess is this is targeting older Latin people specifically the Cuban population. They have not trusted the Dems since the Bay of Pigs and despised Obama for ending the Wet Foot, Dry Foot policy and his attempts to open up Cuba/cozy up to the Communists.

by the way, excellent post, spot on

if this is a real election, FL is a swing state, this just in

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Atocep

If Dems can't win Florida with the covid mess, the broken unemployment system, and general disaster DeSantis has been then we should just acknowledge it's a red state now.

I just can't believe they are at 13% though. It only takes 50% + 1 so it doesn't really matter, but I have a hard time accepting it's this big a gap.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by molson

Trump's calculated response to Biden's accusation:

"I have done more for Black Americans than anybody with the possible exception of Abraham Lincoln. Nobody has even been close."

Real quote.

But this is what he does. When he fucks up and owes someone $500 million, does he merely file paperwork saying he doesn't owe it? Of course not. He counter-sues them for $40 billion. Says they "duped" him into borrowing the money or something patently absurd. Ties it up in courts. Eventually gets toward a settlement. It's not an honorable strategy, but it's a strategy.

This is the same thing. He does it all the time. Russia was interfering to help Hillary Clinton win. Intra-family self-dealing problems are best evidenced by Hunter Biden. He's not only not a racist, he's the greatest champion of civil rights ever. It's his standard deck. He doesn't know any other way to behave or talk about things, just lie, lie big, and stick with it.

[Ksyrup]

Given recent history, this is basically his 2-week notice of (forced) resignation, right?

BreakingOJ IG Horowitz launches probe into "use of force" by federal agents in Portland & clearing of protestors at Lafayette Square, including use of chemical agents. "If circumstances warrant,OIG will consider including other issues that may arise during course of review."

— Michael Isikoff (@Isikoff) July 23, 2020

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

There's just no way...

I mean, this should be right given everything we've seen, but it can't be.

Quinnipiac Florida poll

Biden 51%
Trump 38%https://t.co/hNMnJIUIhq

— Steve Kornacki (@SteveKornacki) July 23, 2020

I don't know about the margin, but it doesn't surprise me that, "Let the old people die off," isn't a good campaign message for FL.

[albionmoonlight]

Tom Cotton is the answer to the question, what would Trump look like if he didn't shoot himself in the foot so much.

Inbox: Senator Tom Cotton (R-Arkansas) introduced the Saving American History Act of 2020, a bill that would prohibit the use of federal funds to teach the 1619 Project by K-12 schools or school districts.

— Niels Lesniewski (@nielslesniewski) July 23, 2020

I'm more scared of Cotton than any politician right now. He seems able to speak the MAGA language while not turning off suburban voters.

[Butter]

At some point, you would think calling everything "Marxist", "socialist", or "Communist" would wear off as a strategy.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Atocep

If Dems can't win Florida with the covid mess, the broken unemployment system, and general disaster DeSantis has been then we should just acknowledge it's a red state now.

As local and national politics become more intertwined, you have to thing that DeSantis is dragging Trump down in Florida.

[albionmoonlight]

dola:

I know that there's a lot going on, but I'm surprised that the "Our country is so fucked up that other countries won't even let us visit" thing hasn't gotten more traction.

Travelling is something that the journalist class likes to do, so I would have thought that there would be "I can't go visit my friends in France because of Trump" type things being published.

[BYU 14]

So Federal Troops apparently on their way to Chicago and Albuquerque now.

[BYU 14]

Dola and Mayor in agreement with it after assurances it would not be in the same manner of deployment that Portland is seeing. We will see how that goes.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

So Federal Troops apparently on their way to Chicago and Albuquerque now.

With the success they've had sparking violence and bringing out more protesters in Portland, why not? The test run was a success.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Tom Cotton is the answer to the question, what would Trump look like if he didn't shoot himself in the foot so much.

Inbox: Senator Tom Cotton (R-Arkansas) introduced the Saving American History Act of 2020, a bill that would prohibit the use of federal funds to teach the 1619 Project by K-12 schools or school districts.

— Niels Lesniewski (@nielslesniewski) July 23, 2020

I'm more scared of Cotton than any politician right now. He seems able to speak the MAGA language while not turning off suburban voters.

He doesn't worry me much because he's so unlikable. Josh Hawley, though...

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

You know what's fucked up? That we've been talking about beans and there hasn't been even ONE SINGLE MENTION about him asking the US Ambassador to the UK to try and convince them to play the British Open and Turnberry!

This, on it's very own, is a high ranking scandal with weeks of airplay behind it and a multitude of congressional hearings regarding the president of the US using US diplomatic leverage to try to enrich his own personal business. It's exactly the reason why we make presidents divest themselves before they take office ffs!

I mean, in the scope of his bullshit, it's just one more thing, but alone as a the behavior of the US leader, it's reprehensible.

MSNBC reports today on this:

NYT says the State Dept IG looked at it, the report was concluded and then marked classified in May. An unclassified version was never released.

trump then fired the IG, in May.

Now the report has completely vanished.

[QuikSand]

This is new: @realdonaldtrump's private company says it's getting into the business of organizing virtual "Telerallies." Even trademarked the brand name.

That could give them another way to turn campaign donations into private revenue for POTUS.https://t.co/1hU3egOoU2

— David Fahrenthold (@Fahrenthold) July 23, 2020

Imagine being someone who donated to this campaign, for a reason other than purely gaining political favor or being named head of something unimportant like education. Like, if you really believed in something he said as a matter of policy.

I can't say I "feel for" that person, but I do wish he understood how coldly he's being played. Everything is a con.