2009 MLB Regular Season Thread

[Ksyrup]

Yeah I know, I was just pointing out that this isn't all that unusual a situation.

[larrymcg421]

Somehow I've never heard about it before, but that's just all the more reason to hate the save stat. I mean, the only way for Papelbon not to get a save there is if he allows all runners on base to score, the runner he's facing to score, and then the next batter to score.

If I had any say, I'd change the save stat so it can happen in any inning after the starter leaves. It would depend on how many runners are on base, and how many outs you needed to get out of the inning. For instance, if the tying run is in scoring position, then you can get a save with one out. If the tying run is at 1st, then you'd need two outs. If the tying run is at the plate, then you need 3 outs. Multiple releivers can get saves in the same game.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Timmah vs. Pujols is like Bonds. vs. Gagne; must see-TV. I'd call tonight for Timmy, but 1/3 against him is a pretty good night.

Must see-TV is right!

You know, SF has one heck of a pitching staff.. we get Johnson and then Cain.. .sheeeeeshh......

[MikeVic]

Where's Zito?

[Mr. Sparkle]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Where's Zito?

After Johnson and Cain. 126 million dollar 4th starter FTW!

[Ksyrup]

The "undoubtedly bogus but I'm posting it anyway for discussion purposes" supposed list of 104 players who tested positive in 2003.

Not a single name on this list is surprising. Between help with injury/fatigue recovery, muscle-bound players, and the Dominican connection, I can't think of a guy in the MLB who might NOT have taken something at this point. Although I'm happy I don't see Pujols or Julio Franco or a few other guys on there (not to say they aren't taking, just didn't test positive on this imaginary list).

1.Nomar Garciaparra

2.Manny Ramirez

3.Johnny Damon

4.Trot Nixon

5. David Ortiz

6. Shea Hillenbrand

7. Derek Lowe

8. Pedro Martinez

9.Brian Roberts

10.Jay Gibbons

11.Melvin Mora

12.Jerry Hairston

13.Jason Giambi

14.Alfonso Soriano

15.Raul Mondesi

16. Aaron Boone

17.Andy Pettitte

18.Jose Contreras

19.Roger Clemens

20.Carlos Delgado

21.Vernon Wells

22.Frank Catalanotto

23.Kenny Rogers

24.Magglio Ordonez

25.Sandy Alomar

26.Bartolo Colon

27.Brent Abernathy

28. Jose Lima

29.Milton Bradley

30.Casey Blake

31.Danys Baez

32.Craig Monroe

33.Dmitri Young

34.Alex Sanchez

35.Eric Chavez

36.Miguel Tejada

37.Eric Byrnes

38.Jose Guillen

39.Keith Foulke

40.Ricardo Rincon

41.Bret Boone

42.Mike Cameron

43.Randy Winn

44.Ryan Franklin

45.Freddy Garcia

46.Rafael Soriano

47.Scott Spiezio

48.Troy Glaus

49.Francisco Rodriguez

50.Ben Weber

51.Alex Rodriguez

52.Juan Gonzalez

53.Rafael Palmeiro

54.Carl Everett

55.Javy Lopez

56.Gary Sheffield

57.Mike Hampton

58.Ivan Rodriguez

59.Derrek Lee

60.Bobby Abreu

61.Terry Adams

62.Fernando Tatis

63.Livan Hernandez

64.Hector Almonte

65.Tony Armas

66.Dan Smith

67.Roberto Alomar

68.Cliff Floyd

69.Roger Cedeno

70.Jeromy Burnitz

71.Moises Alou

72.Sammy Sosa

73.Corey Patterson

74.Carlos Zambrano

75.Mark Prior

76.Kerry Wood

77.Matt Clement

78.Antonio Alfonseca

79.Juan Cruz

80.Aramis Ramirez

81.Craig Wilson

82.Kris Benson

83.Richie Sexson

84.Geoff Jenkins

85.Valerio de los Santos

86.Benito Santiago

87.Rich Aurilia

88.Barry Bonds

89.Andres Galarraga

90.Jason Schmidt

91.Felix Rodriguez

92.Jason Christiansen

93.Matt Herges

94.Paul Lo Duca

95.Shawn Green

96.Jeromy Burnitz

97.Adrian Beltre

98.Eric Gagne

99.Guillermo Mota

100.Luis Gonzalez

101.Todd Helton

102.Ryan Klesko

103.Gary Matthews

104.Oliver Perez

[Ksyrup]

NBC Sports confirms the list is phony, FWIW.

[Dr. Sak]

Fuck so I got in an argument with Zack Duke about nothing!

[sterlingice]

KC can't even get any respect on the fake steroid list.

Jose Lima is our only representative

SI

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Must see-TV is right!

You know, SF has one heck of a pitching staff.. we get Johnson and then Cain.. .sheeeeeshh......

Hahhaa - but you guys have more hitting than us. Yadier Molina would hit cleanup for the Giants.

PS, Johnson is decent for 6 IP - but he hasn't been spectacular by any means.

[Logan]

Yeah, way too many big names on that list as a percentage.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Logan

Yeah, way too many big names on that list as a percentage.

Yeah, the superstar:big name:scrub ratio is about 1:3:1 which just isn't how baseball is. Looking at the minor league tests, high level prospects and scrubs have been using alike.

SI

[MikeVic]

Of course Julio Franco isn't on the list! He's all natural.

[stevew]

Pirates trade Nyjer Morgan and Sean Burnett to the Nationals for Lastings Milledge and Joel Hanrahan

Also Eric Hinske to the Yankees for scrubs.

Sad to see Tony Plush go, enjoy him mr. moore.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by stevew

Pirates trade Nyjer Morgan and Sean Burnett to the Nationals for Lastings Milledge and Joel Hanrahan

Also Eric Hinske to the Yankees for scrubs.

Sad to see Tony Plush go, enjoy him mr. moore.

Time to do some research.

[stevew]

He's a great guy, like all world type intangibles. Now his abilities, not so great. If he's the starting CF, I would expect him to be borderline gold glove. At 29, he's still learning baseball. I dunno what his ceiling is as a player, but I'd guess something like .270/.370/.330 with a lot of range and steals(which his conversion rate is below average currently).

Burnett's an average to slightly above average 7th inning reliever. He's a lefty, maybe a bit more than merely a LOOGY. Nothing spectacular, but you could do much much worse.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I like the trade for the Pirates. Morgan is old(er) and his SB% is low. Milledge, while acknowledging he is nothing but promise and bad attitude right now, could turn into something.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by stevew

Pirates trade Nyjer Morgan and Sean Burnett to the Nationals for Lastings Milledge and Joel Hanrahan

Also Eric Hinske to the Yankees for scrubs.

Sad to see Tony Plush go, enjoy him mr. moore.

This seems like a good deal for the Pirates. I know Milledge had worn out his welcome in Washington but all he nets is a 29yo AAAA no-hit all defense CF. Then again, I don't know much about Burnett so I don't know how the Burnett-Hanrahan half of this trade looks.

SI

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

This seems like a good deal for the Pirates. I know Milledge had worn out his welcome in Washington but all he nets is a 29yo AAAA no-hit all defense CF. Then again, I don't know much about Burnett so I don't know how the Burnett-Hanrahan half of this trade looks.

SI

I agree, this seems like a win for the Pirates. Washington soured on Milledge way too quickly which is, I think, just another sign of the chaos that is the Nats front office. Obviously he had plenty of upside but can he overcome the character issues and produce? Either way I like the idea of selling high on a guy like Morgan, who is a great guy but limited overall, to get a guy like Milledge. Everything I've read about Hanrahan indicates that he may be struggling because he was overused because of the WBC. I like this one for the Buccos. Can you imagine McCutchen and Milledge at the top of that lineup? It's going to become a track meet ala Tampa Bay west.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by stevew

He's a great guy, like all world type intangibles. Now his abilities, not so great. If he's the starting CF, I would expect him to be borderline gold glove. At 29, he's still learning baseball. I dunno what his ceiling is as a player, but I'd guess something like .270/.370/.330 with a lot of range and steals(which his conversion rate is below average currently).

Burnett's an average to slightly above average 7th inning reliever. He's a lefty, maybe a bit more than merely a LOOGY. Nothing spectacular, but you could do much much worse.

That probably makes him the best reliever in the Nationals organization

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

I like the trade for the Pirates. Morgan is old(er) and his SB% is low. Milledge, while acknowledging he is nothing but promise and bad attitude right now, could turn into something.

Originally Posted by sterlingice

This seems like a good deal for the Pirates. I know Milledge had worn out his welcome in Washington but all he nets is a 29yo AAAA no-hit all defense CF. Then again, I don't know much about Burnett so I don't know how the Burnett-Hanrahan half of this trade looks.

SI

Milledge just isn't getting it done. NYM couldn't do anything. WAS couldn't do anyting with him. So far it doesn't seem like his upside is as expected.

As for Hanrahan, he has a 7.71 ERA this year after 32 innings. He has blown half his save opportunities (5/5) and has become known around the Nats blgo world as "Gas Canrahan". He doesn't seem to do well in pressure situations, to say the least. If he can get settled into middle innings he may have some promise. He was 5-3 in '07 with 11 starts, so perhaps they may even see him in that role. The Nationals had too many young studs to keep going down that line, though, and were hopping Hanrahan could become a closer.

Last year he ate up 69 innings with a 3.95 era, and only 13 save opportunities. He seemed to do much better in that role.

Anyway -- I know much less about baseball than most of the guys in this thread, but the fans have been screaming for this kind of move for a while. I would say Hanrahan was here past his welcome moreso than Milledge.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by samifan24

I agree, this seems like a win for the Pirates. Washington soured on Milledge way too quickly which is, I think, just another sign of the chaos that is the Nats front office. Obviously he had plenty of upside but can he overcome the character issues and produce? Either way I like the idea of selling high on a guy like Morgan, who is a great guy but limited overall, to get a guy like Milledge. Everything I've read about Hanrahan indicates that he may be struggling because he was overused because of the WBC. I like this one for the Buccos. Can you imagine McCutchen and Milledge at the top of that lineup? It's going to become a track meet ala Tampa Bay west.

Lastings was hitting .167 at the top of the Nationals lineup. Granted, it was only a week, which is what you're saying -- but he didn't do any better in the minors.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

At first I took the Burnett/Hanrahan thing for a wash. Then I looked up Burnett, and he's pitching well this year in relief. Maybe he'll start living up to his promise as well.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Random observation about that list, how many sons of former major leaguers are on there.

Jerry Hairston, Aaron Boone, Sandy Alomar, Brett Boone, Tony Armas, Roberto Alomar, Moises Alou, Barry Bonds, and Gary Matthews. And that's if I didn't miss any.

Is there any second generation MLB'er that was active in 2003 that isn't on the list?

[ISiddiqui]

Milledge is a weird case. Beginning of this year he was a trendy pick for a breakout season... until he shit the bed the first week of the season.

[stevew]

Jaromy Burnitz used so many roids he landed on the list twice!

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Milledge is a weird case. Beginning of this year he was a trendy pick for a breakout season... until he shit the bed the first week of the season.

And, as stated above, the Nationals gave up fast. But, for the fans, it wasn't fast enough. Actually, the fans felt he should have been taken out of the lead-off spot and perhaps moved out of centerfield. Instead Bowden sent him to the minors, where he was injured.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by stevew

Jaromy Burnitz used so many roids he landed on the list twice!

Maybe they were fertility drugs & he was pregnant.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Hahhaa - but you guys have more hitting than us. Yadier Molina would hit cleanup for the Giants.

PS, Johnson is decent for 6 IP - but he hasn't been spectacular by any means.

We can't hit lefties though.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

We can't hit lefties though.

You forgot to mention that Pujols guy. I don't think that HR against Johnson in the 4th has come down yet.

[kingfc22]

I was just hoping the Giants would split this series with the Cards. Now I'll be upset if we don't take 3 out of 4 especially with Cain on the hill tomorrow.

[BishopMVP]

FWIW, the Red Sox managed to blow a 9-run lead for the first time since June 4, 1989 after an hour+ rain delay.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

FWIW, the Red Sox managed to blow a 9-run lead for the first time since June 4, 1989 after an hour+ rain delay.

Do you know if the Red Sox maintained all the unwritten rules that involve how you are supposed to play with a 9 run lead. No stolen bases, no bunting etc.

[MrDNA]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Do you know if the Red Sox maintained all the unwritten rules that involve how you are supposed to play with a 9 run lead. No stolen bases, no bunting etc.

...forgetting how many outs there are and laughing it off...

[SackAttack]

Hell of a pitcher's duel going on in LA.

[SirFozzie]

Tell ya what, the Sox have no right to be leading this game against the Orioles.. but the Orioles had even less right to win last night's game. We'll call it even

[miked]

So I'm looking over Adam Dunn's numbers this year because he's on my fantasy team and they are mind bottling. Admittedly, I don't follow MLB as much as I used to, but is Washington's offense this bad? He's batting .260 with 20 HR and 60 BB, yet he's only scored 36 runs. So of his 49 hits (non HR) and 60 BB, he's been driven in 16 times??? He's even started on 2B 11 times (doubles). This just seems so unreal that somebody can be on base 110 times and only get knocked in 16. He's driven himself in more than his team has. I hope he only has a 1 year deal with no option.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by miked

So I'm looking over Adam Dunn's numbers this year because he's on my fantasy team and they are mind bottling. Admittedly, I don't follow MLB as much as I used to, but is Washington's offense this bad? He's batting .260 with 20 HR and 60 BB, yet he's only scored 36 runs. So of his 49 hits (non HR) and 60 BB, he's been driven in 16 times??? He's even started on 2B 11 times (doubles). This just seems so unreal that somebody can be on base 110 times and only get knocked in 16. He's driven himself in more than his team has. I hope he only has a 1 year deal with no option.

The answer is: yes and no. Washington leaves a lot of men on base, but they get a lot of hits. So sometimes Dunn will get driven to third but not all the way home. But Washington's run scoring is pretty poor.

[larrymcg421]

Braves somehow manage 11 runs and are now only 3 games back.

Wonder what it would take to pry Dunn from the Nationals?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Wonder what it would take to pry Dunn from the Nationals?

2-3 AAAA outfielders would probably do the trick.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Atocep

2-3 AAAA outfielders would probably do the trick.

How about Jordan Schaefer, Brandon Jones and Garrett Anderson? And we'll throw in Reid Gorecki as a fourth outfielder.

Heck, if you want to play hardball we could include your choice of Tony Armas John Halama, Vladimir Nunez, all of whom are pitching for the Braves in AAA right now.

[miked]

Well, doubtful they want him. They had the chance to sign him and went on the cheap for Anderson instead. We have no power at positions that are supposed to be power (1B,OF). But I hear he just clogs the bases anyway

[larrymcg421]

Well Adam Dunn gives us the division IMO. So I don't care if we have to tie Wren up and force him to do the trade at gunpoint, it needs to get done.

[Ksyrup]

Rob Neyer blogged yesterday about a Dave Cameron blog that argues that Adam Dunn is worth only a few runs more than Nyjer Morgan, when you factor in hitting, defense, and base running. Basically, Dunn is worth +45 runs hitting, but Morgan is worth +39 runs for defense and base running (comparatively speaking). And then when you figure in cost ($10M vs. $400K), Morgan is probably a better investment for what you are getting out of him relative to Dunn.

Morgan = Dunn | FanGraphs Baseball

[ISiddiqui]

If only one could combine the two... the good parts of the two, of course. The bad parts (bad hitting, fielding, baserunning) have already been combined. We call him Kelly Johnson.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Rob Neyer blogged yesterday about a Dave Cameron blog that argues that Adam Dunn is worth only a few runs more than Nyjer Morgan, when you factor in hitting, defense, and base running. Basically, Dunn is worth +45 runs hitting, but Morgan is worth +39 runs for defense and base running (comparatively speaking). And then when you figure in cost ($10M vs. $400K), Morgan is probably a better investment for what you are getting out of him relative to Dunn.

Morgan = Dunn | FanGraphs Baseball

It's a mystery to me why Dunn didn't get offers to be a DH in the AL. His defense is terrible, but if you could get his bat without having to put him in the field he's an incredibly valuable player. I hope the Nats will get some offers for Dunn from AL teams.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

It's a mystery to me why Dunn didn't get offers to be a DH in the AL. His defense is terrible, but if you could get his bat without having to put him in the field he's an incredibly valuable player. I hope the Nats will get some offers for Dunn from AL teams.

I agree *cough* red sox *cough*

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Where would you put Dunn on the Red Sox?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Rob Neyer blogged yesterday about a Dave Cameron blog that argues that Adam Dunn is worth only a few runs more than Nyjer Morgan, when you factor in hitting, defense, and base running. Basically, Dunn is worth +45 runs hitting, but Morgan is worth +39 runs for defense and base running (comparatively speaking). And then when you figure in cost ($10M vs. $400K), Morgan is probably a better investment for what you are getting out of him relative to Dunn.

Morgan = Dunn | FanGraphs Baseball

I'm still not buying defensive metrics like that yet. They're still in their infancy or adolescence, at best. Either we're overestimating defense and speed or we're underestimating hitting comparatively.

EDIT: Never mind, we're talking about the difference between his defense and Morgan's, not Morgan's and average. That said, Dunn's defense rarely gets him out of the lineup except late in games. Morgan's hitting might keep him out of the field.

SI

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I agree *cough* red sox *cough*

He'd really fit in well in Detroit. Mags stays in the OF and the collection of other guys used as a DH stay on the bench.

But yeah, if you can get Ortiz out of the lineup Dunn would be a nice addition.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Where would you put Dunn on the Red Sox?

I'm assuming the dissapearance of Ortiz. Or if Lowell's hip is killing him and he's done/gone, then you move Youk to third, live with Papi at first, and put Dunn at DH. You'd likely sacrifice some runs with the change from Lowell to Papi (although Lowell's defense hasn't been great this year), but you make up for those with Dunn.

Outside of the top tier of guys who aren't likely to be traded I'm not sure who you get to replace Lowell at 3B when the time comes for him to retire. There aren't any internal prospects. So while moving a gold glove 1B seems silly and potentially dangerous, if you have the opportunity by doing that to bring in another bat like Dunn...you have to at least consider it.