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View Poll Results: How is Obama doing? (poll started 6/6) | |||
Great - above my expectations | 18 | 6.87% | |
Good - met most of my expectations | 66 | 25.19% | |
Average - so so, disappointed a little | 64 | 24.43% | |
Bad - sold us out | 101 | 38.55% | |
Trout - don't know yet | 13 | 4.96% | |
Voters: 262. You may not vote on this poll |
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Thread Tools |
12-28-2015, 07:42 AM | #25901 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
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12-28-2015, 07:53 AM | #25902 | ||
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
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Quote:
I don't think that's true. Republicans have much more cognitive dissonance when it comes to carving out defense spending from an overall dogmatic mantra of spending cuts. If it wasn't such a huge part of the budget and it wasn't more than something like the next 20-25 military budgets' of other nations combined the dissonance wouldn't be so strong, but it is. Democrats don't deny that the spending create jobs, though they'll happily point out the waste in the procurement process and the pointlessness of certain military spending projects. They, in general, argue that a lot of that money could be better spent elsewhere or, gasp, even contribute to overall cuts. Democrats aren't exempting the military from an overall SPEND MORE dogma because Democrats don't have anymore, as if they even did, an overall SPEND MORE dogma, and certainly not one as strong as the GOP's CUT MORE dogma (where there are signatures on a page, lest we forget). So you can't really compare the two, as you've done. Well, unless painting in black-and-white is your goal. Quote:
You say vilification, I say scrutiny. Like it or not, it's an enormous part of the budget, and it's primary benefit (national defense) is hard to quantify, though spending more than all of your allies and most of your, er, non-allies, combined seems a little overkill. If you want to justify the defense budget as a works program, then even you must admit there's a valid question as to whether that's the best way to set up a works program. I'd propose there are likely cheaper and more effective ways to get young people an education and on-the-job training. This is not an argument to gut the defense budget. The military as a works program has always been a decent side benefit. But, dogmatically (I say this as my gift to you), it shouldn't be the nation's largest works program. |
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12-28-2015, 09:18 AM | #25903 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Decatur, GA
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Quote:
I think that's an unfair characterization of most liberals. Most liberals are fine with a good amount of military spending, but not the amount that we are currently spending - and that a lot of the excess can be used for more efficient economic stimulus or safety nets. There is a level where spending loses a good deal of its marginal productivity compared to other uses.
__________________
"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams |
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12-28-2015, 09:52 AM | #25904 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
I'm all for our allies that reap the benefits of our military to pitch in. For every dollar they spend, we'll spend it on "more efficient economic stimulus and safety nets". They owe us about....$10 Trillion and counting. |
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12-28-2015, 10:12 AM | #25905 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Decatur, GA
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It's generally bad form to offer a gift and then demand payment for said gift .
__________________
"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams |
12-28-2015, 11:29 AM | #25906 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
It isn't a gift anymore if we dismantle it. So now that we've clarified that....for every dollar our allies pledge, we pledge a dollar to our economy. There is nothing wrong with the barter system. Last edited by Dutch : 12-28-2015 at 11:31 AM. |
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12-28-2015, 11:41 AM | #25907 | |
SI Games
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Melbourne, FL
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Quote:
I think most of the 'allies' would have preferred America not to have gone to war in the first place, definitely the people in those countries by and large were hugely against it (the Polls in the UK showed just how much of a travesty the concept of 'democracy' is when the polls were 80%+ against war and we have generally jumped head first into them anyway ...). The idea that the American military benefits 'allies' is a travesty - America makes its decisions for its own purposes and often ignores the requests of other countries not to be aggressive on a military front, so the concept that other countries 'owe' for the US spending is frankly ludicrous. Its a bit like a millionaire turning around and requesting you pay for the mansion he built because he feels it stimulated the economy, its an eyesore, you didn't want it and sure as heck aren't about to pay towards it now he's made the mistake ... |
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12-28-2015, 01:06 PM | #25908 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Decatur, GA
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Quote:
Or how about we just pledge money to our economy and dismantle our overly large military. That works much better for me.
__________________
"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams |
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12-28-2015, 01:12 PM | #25909 |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Who would you rather start the next conflict then?
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12-28-2015, 01:14 PM | #25910 |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
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So you think we should be starting conflicts just for the sake of starting one?
__________________
Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint |
12-28-2015, 01:17 PM | #25911 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Decatur, GA
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Quote:
It's the new Republican logic. I mean we can't have all these weapons piling up. We have to kill someone with them!
__________________
"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams |
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12-28-2015, 01:21 PM | #25912 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm good with keeping things the way they are. I didn't bring this up. I'm not good with just dismantling our military might because it's 'annoying' and bothers some people for a moment in time while watching or reading the news. I'm not above negotiating a better deal though. If you really want to help our economy, our allies have always been huge benefactors of our armed services, our technology, our intelligence, surveillance, special operations, and everything else. There is no doubt about that. I'm okay with give and take. If Americans are generally concerned about the cost, then we should split those costs with other rich nations. It's a good compromise in my book. |
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12-28-2015, 01:26 PM | #25913 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
This isn't Republican logic nor is it new. This has been our American mindset since 1945 and it's worked pretty well so far. Not perfect, but better than our beliefs from 1915-1940 that not maintaining a strong military made everybody nicer. It's just not the reality of the world we live in. Somebody will always be militarily on top and I'd prefer it to be us than anybody else. |
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12-28-2015, 01:28 PM | #25914 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Decatur, GA
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We can basically slice our military budget in half and still be on top. Heck, we could slice it by 3/4ths and still be on top. At this point a good portion of our military budget seemingly exists to make defense contractors rich.
__________________
"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams |
12-28-2015, 01:39 PM | #25915 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: St. Louis
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Quote:
I would agree it isn't republican logic and is pretty short sighted to think these wars are only happening during republican administrations. However I take issue that all of these conflicts kept the world safer and have worked pretty well so far. There have been a lot of dead American soldiers and innocent civilians killed in these endless wars. |
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12-28-2015, 01:41 PM | #25916 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
I don't know enough about that to tell you if 75% of it is to make 'defense contractors rich'. That seems exaggerated. But I agree it's bloated, it's got to be bloated...it's a publicly* funded program after all. *assuming we actually are paying the bill, which I doubt based on our national deficit increases. Last edited by Dutch : 12-28-2015 at 01:47 PM. |
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12-28-2015, 01:46 PM | #25917 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
Lots of death, agreed. Imagine if we didn't have superiority or better yet, supremacy on the battlefield. Lots more death probably. I don't believe we have reached an era that equates to "the end of warfare" and I also don't believe the only reason we still have Americans and foreign civilians dying is simply because our armed forces exist. |
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12-28-2015, 01:50 PM | #25918 |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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12-28-2015, 01:57 PM | #25919 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: St. Louis
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Quote:
And what reason exactly would anyone have for attacking us had we not engaged in these wars these past fifty years? An extremely complicated battle with a country surrounded by two huge oceans to win over their coal and corn reserves? There's a reason most of the wars are happening right near the center of a lot of the world's energy and religious texts. |
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12-28-2015, 02:07 PM | #25920 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
Agreed, nobody is going to launch a classic full scale conventional war in North America against the USA. We are much too isolated for anything like that to take place and without some good reason like us going all Hitler on the world or something, we shouldn't have to experience anything like that. It's pretty much all about protecting our global economic trade for resources. And the flip-side of our isolation is also valid, we, in fact, are very isolated and we rely on and are completely dependent on fair trade of goods. Last edited by Dutch : 12-28-2015 at 02:08 PM. |
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12-28-2015, 02:15 PM | #25921 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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Quote:
You didn't post that in German, did you motherfucker?
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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12-28-2015, 02:18 PM | #25922 |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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12-28-2015, 02:25 PM | #25923 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Not Delaware - hurray!
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To be more accurate, I'd say Russian as opposed to German.
__________________
She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! She loves you, yeah! how do you know? how do you know? |
12-28-2015, 02:28 PM | #25924 |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Da...
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12-28-2015, 02:33 PM | #25925 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Decatur, GA
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The Brits could probably resist the Russians... the channel isn't easy to cross.
__________________
"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams |
12-28-2015, 02:38 PM | #25926 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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Fair point, there were multiple options.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
12-28-2015, 02:43 PM | #25927 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Not Delaware - hurray!
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Quote:
Wouldn't matter much when your population can be starved to death.
__________________
She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! She loves you, yeah! how do you know? how do you know? |
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12-28-2015, 02:54 PM | #25928 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
I think the Wolverines would disagree with you. |
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12-28-2015, 02:56 PM | #25929 |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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True. Original, not remake.
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12-28-2015, 08:03 PM | #25930 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Maryland
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Quote:
I think you meant to say "sports stadium."
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null |
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12-29-2015, 12:53 PM | #25931 |
SI Games
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Melbourne, FL
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12-31-2015, 04:12 PM | #25932 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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I'm glad he's trying to take the initiative to do something about this. The gun show loophole is the low hanging fruit. This won't solve our shooting problems but its the most visible issue. Get it out of the way, show some success and maybe other, more relevant measures will follow.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/31/politi...uns/index.html Quote:
Last edited by Edward64 : 12-31-2015 at 04:12 PM. |
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12-31-2015, 05:17 PM | #25933 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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He's the reason the 2nd amendment exists. A genuine wanna-be despot in the Oval Office, still perhaps not the worst President of all-time (I still hold Carter out as worse) but certainly the most dangerous clueless bastard to ever step foot in the room.
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"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis Last edited by JonInMiddleGA : 12-31-2015 at 05:17 PM. |
12-31-2015, 06:35 PM | #25934 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Quote:
While I want to see something done -- this isn't the way to do it. |
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12-31-2015, 06:40 PM | #25935 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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12-31-2015, 09:04 PM | #25936 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
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01-01-2016, 08:56 AM | #25937 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
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01-01-2016, 08:56 AM | #25938 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
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Quote:
This is particularly unhinged. Even for you. |
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01-01-2016, 09:01 AM | #25939 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Funny that Jon wasn't saying anything like that during the Bush, Unitary Executive, years.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
01-01-2016, 09:43 AM | #25940 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
I think the executive action options only make the situation worse. It's like the politicians know it's there, so they roadblock further knowing than they can increase their public 'anger' and further polarize the situation. I think you'd see more compromise if executive actions weren't an option. |
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01-01-2016, 09:58 AM | #25941 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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If the President couldn't do anything Congress would just compromise out of a spirit of generosity?
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
01-01-2016, 11:08 AM | #25942 |
College Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The Dirty
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It's amazing, since like 90% of Americans support closing this loophole, that nothing can be done short of an executive action. If congress can't compromise on something that 90% of Americans want, what choice is there that is left?
It's amazing that people who work for drug companies have to register into a public database to visit me, can't buy me a cup of coffee, but they can go to a flea market and sell guns without doing anything.
__________________
Commish of the United Baseball League (OOTP 6.5) |
01-02-2016, 06:57 PM | #25943 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Another attempt to repeal Obamacare but this one sounds more positioning for the elections than anything else.
House GOP: First task sending White House bill repealing ObamaCare, defunding Planned Parenthood | Fox News Quote:
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01-02-2016, 07:01 PM | #25944 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Quote:
As opposed to all the other ones?
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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01-02-2016, 07:21 PM | #25945 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA
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Quote:
I mentioned this in the Planned Parenthood thread a week or so ago. All this does is make it so Republicans can act like they kept a promise to the American people. Such progress! |
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01-03-2016, 09:03 AM | #25946 | ||
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Closing the gun show loophole just seems like a small thing and there is support within the NRA ranks. I think its opposed because it'll be a stepping stone to other background checks - private sales, family gifting etc. Smart of Obama to concede it won't stop all the attacks.
Obama Returns From Hawaii Saying He's 'Fired Up' for 2016 - ABC News Quote:
I'm all for the TPP and it may be one of those that Obama gets credit/blame for after he's long gone. Not sure what the definition of nonviolent is or what his alternative is to incarceration but guess its good there is bipartisan support. Quote:
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01-03-2016, 09:09 AM | #25947 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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The GOP will use immigration or gun control as a "reason" they can't pass incarceration reform.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
01-05-2016, 11:59 PM | #25948 | |||||
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Never seen a president tear up like this.
Obama: We Are Here to Prevent the Next Mass Shooting - NBC News Quote:
I'm okay with this. Not sure why this is controversial. Quote:
I guess things are not as automated as I thought. Not sure the $ but in general I guess I'm okay with this. Quote:
I'm okay with this but I guess there needs to be some privacy controls. Quote:
I wouldn't buy one if there are "electronics" in the weapon that could prevent me from shooting it. I think this is okay if its optional/additional to but not required for all weapons. Quote:
I guess a first step on the low hanging fruit. |
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01-06-2016, 12:51 AM | #25949 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2013
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So is this executive order actually going to prevent any gun deaths?
__________________
"I am God's prophet, and I need an attorney" |
01-06-2016, 01:16 AM | #25950 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Newbury, England
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No-one can or will ever know.
Personally, if the headlines are that it's going to make gun sellers licensed, and make it harder/impossible for people with mental illness to get guns, particularly rapid fire guns, then I really don't see how people can argue against it: if you are a respectable gun seller and not mentally unstable it shouldn't affect you in any way other than it might tale a couple of weeks extra to get your gun. Who would honestly say a couple of weeks delay isn't worth the possibility of saving one innocent life? And if you do think of it as an outrage and a restriction of your rights, would you be comfortable with the reverse: speeding up delivery of your gun in return for one extra random, unknown to you, person being killed? And as a by-product, if it means that there will be more of a black market for guns because some people can't get them because of the regs, anyone caught with an unlicensed firearm or selling them without the requisite checks gets thrown into jail, no questions asked. So more bad guys off the streets too. (I realise this last part won't actually happen, but the point remains: legislating against keeping weapons that can kill multiple people out of the hands of those unfit to own them has to be a good thing)
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'A song is a beautiful lie', Idlewild, Self Healer. When you're smiling, the whole world smiles with you. Sports! Last edited by AlexB : 01-06-2016 at 01:16 AM. |
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