The Trump Presidency – 2016

[Ksyrup]

Today's "this should make you comfortable about Trump as President" moment comes from the fact that he's retweeting Chuck Woolery saying how everyone is lying about CV to keep the economy from coming back and that we should reopen schools. So... yeah.

[Noop]

All my friends and colleagues who have children seem to be struggling alot with having to parent 24/7 without a break. I can't imagine what this pandemic is like with children myself however I get the feeling that maybe 60% of them would send their kids back school.

Which is crazy to me because we are in the middle of a pandemic...

[spleen1015]

If you are having trouble being a parent during this pandemic, you never should have been a parent to begin with.

[Ksyrup]

Where we are, I'm OK with my daughter going to HS in late August to start. We can always pull her and switch to online. But online is worthless, so we're not starting there. I remain skeptical that school is going to work, but we're on the low end of cases/spread, so we'll give it a chance.

I'm more worried about my other daughter at college. Not only is she going to be in a worse place spread-wise, but it's college - hard to believe they are going to control themselves and willingly lock themselves in their rooms. And my daughter isn't very social at all, but she turns 21 the day after school starts. I'm sure the pressure on most kids to go to parties and act normal will be enormous. At least with my HS kid, we can control what she does outside of school. Not so much with college kids.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

If you are having trouble being a parent during this pandemic, you never should have been a parent to begin with.

I think for families with 2 parents that work, either at home or not, and very young children that's pretty unfair.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Noop

All my friends and colleagues who have children seem to be struggling alot with having to parent 24/7 without a break. I can't imagine what this pandemic is like with children myself however I get the feeling that maybe 60% of them would send their kids back school.

Which is crazy to me because we are in the middle of a pandemic...

We're getting that a lot on Facebook from neighbors, too. Our kid is slated to start kindergarten in a month and both my wife and I work (from home, for now) and we just can't envision a scenario where we send him. We're definitely stretched thin with him at home. In so many of the comments, you can hear the desperation and there are days when we feel it, too. But there's no way we're sending him into a pandemic petri dish school for his sake, for our sake, for anyone's sake.

SI

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Butter

I think for families with 2 parents that work, either at home or not, and very young children that's pretty unfair.

It's naive.

[Butter]

I'm lucky that my kids are 20 and 18 now, but I have tried to imagine what it would've been like with both me and my wife trying to be on meetings all day long (when they conflict, I go into my bedroom and take meetings), and having a 4 and 2 year old basically left to their own devices while child care is shut down. It would've been a total fuckin' shit show, regardless of how patient I am or how much I love them. It just wouldn't have been a good situation.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

If you are having trouble being a parent during this pandemic, you never should have been a parent to begin with.

There are a lot of reasons people shouldn't be parents but this isn't one of them.

It is healthy for everyone to have a break from their kids. Not being able to get that break, while also having to act as a teacher, playmate, etc...can be stressful for all.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Where we are, I'm OK with my daughter going to HS in late August to start. We can always pull her and switch to online. But online is worthless, so we're not starting there. I remain skeptical that school is going to work, but we're on the low end of cases/spread, so we'll give it a chance.

I'm more worried about my other daughter at college. Not only is she going to be in a worse place spread-wise, but it's college - hard to believe they are going to control themselves and willingly lock themselves in their rooms. And my daughter isn't very social at all, but she turns 21 the day after school starts. I'm sure the pressure on most kids to go to parties and act normal will be enormous. At least with my HS kid, we can control what she does outside of school. Not so much with college kids.

We have the option to keep our kids home for virtual school if we want. The issue for me is you can't go virtual and play sports. Athletes have to go into school. I can't get an answer on if that means the whole year or just the part of the year your sport is happening.

I don't want my daughter going to school now, but that might be different next spring during softball season.

[Ksyrup]

If we start virtual, we have to stay in it for the full semester. And I'm not clear on what will be different versus how they handled the end of last year. But there was no teaching, no school. It was just "here's some homework, figure it out and turn it in on Friday and I'm available by email if you have questions." It was a joke. So we're going to try the in-school thing first. Maybe it only lasts a week until a slew of positives comes back.

I don't think ours is tied to sports in any way. That's kinda crappy. They might as well call your "virtual" school homeschooled.

[Lathum]

So yeah, about that needing a break from kids.

My 7 year old decided she was going to paint a box. She chose the dining room table to do this, without consulting me. At some point the cat knocked over the paint, spilling it on the area rug that was delivered last Thursday. Paint also got on the hardwood floor and the ceiling.

Her art desk, that sits on a tarp, was 10 feet away in the next room.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

The issue for me is you can't go virtual and play sports. Athletes have to go into school. I can't get an answer on if that means the whole year or just the part of the year your sport is happening.

Are they not allowing virtual athletes to play? We are in a similar situation here in Arizona. The district I coach in will be fully remote the entire first quarter and the current start of Football practice has been pushed back to August 17th. (Normally would have been next Monday)

First games pushed back from 8/21 to 9/11 with restrictions on how many players can sit on a bus. So we would either need to take 4 buses instead of 1, or have kids follow the bus for kids that don't drive/can't get rides in their cars. One of our games is 4 hours away this year. (Of course 22 players then run into, breath on and sweat on each other for the next 2+ hours)

We have had absolutely no organized off season program because we can't meet with players outside of zoom and there would be phased in requirements when practice does start. (Groups of 10, no ball to start, social distancing in those groups) This is a nightmare scenario for Football and I don't see how it can be pulled off if the surge here does not drop dramatically. The AIA doesn't even have a plan yet on if a player tests positive during the season, though I am sure it would almost have to mean a cancelled game as they can't test every high school player at the frequency pros/colleges can test.

A few smaller schools have already cancelled fall sports and I am sure there will be more. Again, with the safety of the kids being paramount I don't see how HS Football is going to work right now. My wife has already floated not coaching to me because her parents are so high risk, and even though I am in excellent shape, I am also 57 sooo. I put the coaching conversation off, but I will have to address it and I have to do what is best for my family, which is what we should also be doing for the players. It will be an interesting month.

[Lathum]

NJ, which has this somewhat under control, pushed all fall sports back until October. I don't see how places like FL, TX, and AZ can even remotely consider trying to pull it off.

[spleen1015]

Our district allowed team workouts starting last week. Groups had to be kept to 10 or less people.

It started on Monday and on Wednesday they announced everything was being stopped for the foreseeable future because one of the football players tested positive.

I can't see things proceeding like they are. The numbers just keep going up every day. At some point someone needs to see the light and start putting restrictions in place again.

[Comey]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Our district allowed team workouts starting last week. Groups had to be kept to 10 or less people.

It started on Monday and on Wednesday they announced everything was being stopped for the foreseeable future because one of the football players tested positive.

I can't see things proceeding like they are. The numbers just keep going up every day. At some point someone needs to see the light and start putting restrictions in place again.

But all the doctors and scientists are lying.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trum...ry?id=71749066

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Comey

But all the doctors and scientists are lying.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trum...ry?id=71749066

Totally. The entire world created this hoax to prevent Trump from getting re-elected.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Lathum

NJ, which has this somewhat under control, pushed all fall sports back until October. I don't see how places like FL, TX, and AZ can even remotely consider trying to pull it off.

I don't think there is any way in hell and as I mentioned, if we don't have a hold on it here, as much as it sucks, the season should be either moved to the spring (Really touch to do for multi-sport athletes, facilities etc) or cancelled, which is probably the best option. October/November bring flu season and we have no idea how Covid-19 will be (surge/drop) at that time. It is obvious the heat knocking it down was completely wishful thinking.

I feel bad for seniors that would lose the last chance 98% of them have to play competitive Football, but many teens are not going to be prudent away from school and the risks at this time are just too great. Even if Arizona goes forward, the season will be a chaotic shit show with positive tests, games cancelled, players not revealing positive results and infecting more teammates, starts and stops due to quarantine. Ugh!

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Lathum

So yeah, about that needing a break from kids.

My 7 year old decided she was going to paint a box. She chose the dining room table to do this, without consulting me. At some point the cat knocked over the paint, spilling it on the area rug that was delivered last Thursday. Paint also got on the hardwood floor and the ceiling.

Her art desk, that sits on a tarp, was 10 feet away in the next room.

Reminds me of the time I was home alone with the kids because my wife had gone to a show in NYC. They were both young, and my son got sick and started throwing up. I had just finished cleaning up a round of the vomit, and I left my son standing by the toilet while I brought the soiled stuff out to the garbage in the garage. (I'm germaphobic, and like to get stuff out of the house ASAP.) I come back not two minutes later, and my son has thrown up all over the bathroom counter and sink. All I could think was, YOU WERE RIGHT BY THE TOILET! WHY DIDN'T YOU THROW UP THERE?!?

[PilotMan]

Wait...you guys don't remember that time that a black man got himself killed so he could make trupm look bad and keep him from getting reelected?

Truths abound everywhere!

[Drake]

I've been a single parent working from home for the majority of the pandemic. (My ex is a nurse, so the kids have been largely with me since March to avoid unnecessarily exposing them to COVID.) I don't know about how other people handled it, but I was definitely ready for the end of the school year after several weeks of juggling my professional responsibilities and my homeschooling role.

And at the same time, I felt blessed that I was able to work from home. I can't even imagine how it would have been manageable if I'd had to physically leave for work (especially since all of the daycares in our area shut down.)

Our school is slated to begin August 4, and I plan to send them. Not because I can't handle the homeschooling aspect...but I can tell you 100% that I can't do both their educational development and my professional obligations *well*. One of those two things is going to suffer, and if I have to pick, I'm making sure the mortgage gets paid and there's food on the table before I worry about how well they're mastering fractions.

[QuikSand]

JUST IN: Federal judge seeks copy of Trump's order commuting Roger Stone sentence over questions it may not commute his probation https://t.co/HGjR0p3FH6 pic.twitter.com/9YINPlK0Si

— The Hill (@thehill) July 13, 2020

So, what chance is there than the WH pinheads did such sloppy work (DACA anyone?) that they will have bungled the "let the boss's buddy the criminal off scot free?" play here? Seems to be in play, given what we know of this bunch. lol

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I don't see how places like FL, TX, and AZ can even remotely consider trying to pull it off.

Answer; people in those areas have decidedly different expectations & demands than those in New Jersey.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Answer; people in those areas have decidedly different expectations & demands than those in New Jersey.

I don't understand what you mean.

Are you claiming people in those parts of the country care more about high school sports than the health and well being of their children?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Galaril

American exceptionalism is no more"- I would argue it is greatly damaged over the past 4 years. You have often posted about how it is still a place many want to come to. That has been true I would argue up until now. I have a number of immigrant members in my direct family - wife and children.

Lots to talk about. First agreeing on a definition. Let me know if you agree, disagree, add to etc.

I've read your articles and googled on others. I will attempt to define what American Exceptionalism so we have basis for discussion.

The wiki definition is:

American exceptionalism - Wikipedia

American exceptionalism is one of three related ideas:

The first is that the history of the United States is inherently different from that of other nations.[2] In this view, American exceptionalism stems from its emergence from the American Revolution, thereby becoming what political scientist Seymour Martin Lipset called "the first new nation"[3] and developing a uniquely American ideology, "Americanism", based on liberty, equality before the law, individual responsibility, republicanism, representative democracy and laissez-faire economics. This ideology itself is often referred to as "American exceptionalism."[4]

Second is the idea that the US has a unique mission to transform the world. As Abraham Lincoln stated in the Gettysburg address (1863), Americans have a duty to ensure, "government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

Third is the sense that the United States' history and mission give it a superiority over other nations.

Reading further into the wiki article, there are other nuances and attempts to add context. Some discussions take it all the way back to de Tocqueville, another made reference to Reagan, then Cheney, to Obama's take, and then to Trump/Putin's POV (interestingly, this is where some in the radical left may actually agree with Trump/Putin).

With that all said, I think the both of us can agree that defining American Exceptionalism is important otherwise we'll likely talk past each other.


* * * * *

In reading the 3 points above, I actually wouldn't define American Exceptionalism the way it did. So in my googling, I landed on the below.

American exceptionalism - New World Encyclopedia

The basis most commonly cited for American exceptionalism is the idea that the United States and its people hold a special place in the world, by offering opportunity and hope for humanity, derived from a unique balance of public and private interests governed by constitutional ideals that are focused on personal and economic freedom.

Some United States citizens have used the term to claim moral superiority for America or Americans (added: I believe certainly in many countries but I would not say all/most). Others use it to refer to the American concept, or "dream" as itself an exceptional ideal. Americans can model this for other people and nations to replicate and can assist them with constructing their own democratic, free societies.

Three additional context.

First, I would agree with addendum from Obama.

"I believe in American exceptionalism, just as I suspect that the Brits believe in British exceptionalism and the Greeks believe in Greek exceptionalism."[99] Obama further noted that "I see no contradiction between believing that America has a continued extraordinary role in leading the world towards peace and prosperity and recognizing that leadership is incumbent, depends on, our ability to create partnerships because we create partnerships because we can't solve these problems alone."

I've watched enough History/Discovery channels to know that Romans, Greeks etc. were exceptional in their time. We should not presume US is the only exceptional nation for the past 3-5 millennia. But currently, let's say since 1980's (e.g. since I've been an adult and can talk to it), it has been exceptional.

Second. America is not without faults. I can forsee this discussion naturally leading to all the whatabouts. Many of those whatabouts are warranted but, at the end of the day, the calculus is do the pros far outweigh the cons.

Third. America has no obligation to extend the exceptionalism to all people and all countries. Obviously resources are limited and America has to pick and choose what is best in her strategic (political, military, economic/technological, societal etc.) interests.



(On my next post, I'll react to the articles you posted)

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Totally. The entire world created this hoax to prevent Trump from getting re-elected.

and they did this at the same time that the entire world automatically started respecting the USA again after Trump took office. They respect him SO HARD that they created a worldwide hoax to discredit him.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

So, what chance is there than the WH pinheads did such sloppy work (DACA anyone?) that they will have bungled the "let the boss's buddy the criminal off scot free?" play here? Seems to be in play, given what we know of this bunch. lol

That would be poetic justice at its finest.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Are you claiming people in those parts of the country care more about high school sports than the health and well being of their children?

As ever, the question has never been that simple. But I do think people in those states are less willing in general to shut things down to promote safety than those in NJ, and that's absent the fact that NJ already got hit hard once and will naturally take it more seriously than states who are just going through this for the first time.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I don't understand what you mean.

Are you claiming people in those parts of the country care more about high school sports than the health and well being of their children?

Have you met Texas?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

As ever, the question has never been that simple. But I do think people in those states are less willing in general to shut things down to promote safety than those in NJ, and that's absent the fact that NJ already got hit hard once and will naturally take it more seriously than states who are just going through this for the first time.

You don't think they are currently learning their lesson?

I realize a subset of the population will never learn their lesson, but I would imagine a large enough group will, and I would hope the ones making decisions that will impact our kids health would. Trump and DeVos aside of course.

[Lathum]

Dola- I will also add high school football in NJ is a really big deal. Not Texas level, but bigger than I think most people realize.

[Brian Swartz]

Some are, but I don't see indications yet that it's nearly enough to overcome the cultural distinctions between the northeast and the south in general. It's no so much about football or whatever being less important elsewhere as it is the mindset that going about normal daily life is essential for the health and well-being of their families, etc.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Dola- I will also add high school football in NJ is a really big deal. Not Texas level, but bigger than I think most people realize.

Having been in NJ and Georgia, I can say that down South there is a bit more of a health of the players aren't as important mentality. Regardless of how important the game.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Having been in NJ and Georgia, I can say that down South there is a bit more of a health of the players aren't as important mentality. Regardless of how important the game.

I lived in Texas, I get that, but it amazes me that enough people would put it high enough on a pedestal to try and fight through it.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I lived in Texas, I get that, but it amazes me that enough people would put it high enough on a pedestal to try and fight through it.

The main push back here in Arizona is going to come from the parents of D1/D2 level athletes as they are going to fear their kids lose scholarship opportunities. (Like we tell parents everywhere I have coached, stress academics first as the odds of getting free college money is much easier, but that's for another thread)

Football here is definitely more important in some districts/schools than others thanks to open enrollment and other nonsense. When there was talk earlier of California's season being in jeopardy, there was documented outreach from players in California about transferring to different programs here. There will always be a portion of any population that puts an undue worth on athletics and as a coach who has committed over 30 years to the sport it is getting worse and quite frankly it's sad.

So I don't know what will happen here, but I do know if the season goes on participation, already an issue in some areas, will decline substantially. This will completely gut some programs, leaving others more susceptible to shutting it down after the season start, if there are injuries/positive tests.

Think about it. If your kid has D1 talent and that might be his only option to get into college, you are likely going to be fine assuming any risk to realize that dream/goal. If your kid is a 2nd/3rd string player who is not going to see the field much anyway, are you going to send him to practice day after day to assume all risk and no reward? A lot will not and I can't say I blame them, but that will cripple some programs and make the season an utter mess.

It sucks, but the reality is there is no good answer, and no good way to have HS football in many states this year.

[JPhillips]

I feel more for the kids who aren't going to play collegiate sports. For the vast majority of H.S. athletes, the game ends after graduation. That's really tough for kids that have grown up with the structure and routine of sports. I get the worry about scholarship athletes, but somehow the games will continue for them. For the kid that just loves to play, losing that opportunity has to be tough.

And the same applies to students in the arts that aren't going to pursue a career in the arts.

[Drake]

As the various college/HS feederl "play-in" sports grapple with these questions and lost seasons, this may be the only time in my life I've ever thought, "Man, I'm glad I'm not a sportsball scout or recruiter."

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I feel more for the kids who aren't going to play collegiate sports. For the vast majority of H.S. athletes, the game ends after graduation. That's really tough for kids that have grown up with the structure and routine of sports. I get the worry about scholarship athletes, but somehow the games will continue for them. For the kid that just loves to play, losing that opportunity has to be tough.

And the same applies to students in the arts that aren't going to pursue a career in the arts.

That is the shittiest part. I coach at an inner city school that we took over 2 years ago and they have had 4 winning seasons and 1 playoff appearance in over 60 years of competition.

See here for a reference of some of their history
https://www.maxpreps.com/news/ESem5K...ing-streak.htm

We played them a few times over the years when I was at Westview, which was a perennial power and we wouldn't even study film on them, just decide on what we wanted to work on for later games and would always have the starters out by halftime, but their kids would always try hard and never quit.

Since going there to coach I have fallen in love with these kids. Great kids that get stereotyped because they come from a bad area, but they would run through walls for you and many if them will do great things in life if they can only get an opportunity (also for another thread LOL)

I don't think they have ever placed a player in a D1 school for Football, even the lower levels, including Juco are rare. That said, we have worked hard to build a culture and embrace an identity there that matches the kids and their neighborhood. Tough, gritty, and determined despite lack of top talent. We were excited for our senior class this year, because they are solid for this school and with realignment we had a chance to get that rare winning record and even contend for region.

And even though it is not ultimately about winning to me, it is still nice and nobody deserves it more than the kids in this community, whose wins in sports and life and few and far between. It breaks my heart knowing they will possibly/probably lose that last opportunity. Yeah it's only sports, but there is an opportunity to build men, redirect kids down positive paths and more than the games, that will be lost too if we lose the season and it SUCKS!

[Ksyrup]

I know football/basketball mean a lot more to people and the country as a whole, but a bunch of kids just went through this in the spring. My younger daughter's softball team was a top 2/3 team in the state with 3 D1 players and would have contended for the state title, and it got completely wiped away. Most of the seniors will never play organized sports again. Several rising seniors are caught in the middle of a terrible recruiting situation. It sucks.

We're hosting a Kentucky East/West all-star game tomorrow to try to recognize some of the players who had they careers ended prematurely.

[RainMaker]

I think the NFL happens because there is a ton of money at stake and lets face it, getting COVID is likely not as bad as having your brain scrambled a dozen times a weekend. I think they'd be smart to add an extra bye week or two.

Still don't see college football happening. Maybe in the Spring which would actually be kind of cool. Hopefully there will be a vaccine by then and you could largely open it up to fans if that's the case (assuming we have enough vaccine). They would own the spring and it would be fun for a season.

[Drake]

Unrelated: I wish that in addition to a fact-check algorithm, FB and other media platforms had a "logical fallacies" algorithm.

Also unrelated: Regarding the fact-check algorithm that FB uses, does the person who posts a "fact-checked" link also see the fact check? Or is it just everyone else? I kind of like the idea that everyone sees it except the person who posted it.

ETA and related: Who even knew that Tomi Lahren was still a thing in 2020?

[albionmoonlight]

BREAKING MINUTE ORDER PER JUDGE AMY BERMAN JACKSON: Trump and Stone have until tomorrow to provide full paperwork on his legally impossible commutation. �� pic.twitter.com/WpheKzYUWz

— Eric Garland (@ericgarland) July 13, 2020

So, what seems to be going on here is pretty funny.

By way of background: Subject to some very minor exceptions not relevant here, federal sentencing no longer has "parole" as we traditionally think of it. You don't get out of jail early for good behavior. But most sentences come with a term of "supervised release" at the end of them, which pretty much operates like the general conception of parole. So you will be sentenced to, say, 5 years in prison, followed by 2 years of supervised release (report to your probation officer, take drug tests, etc.).

So the President presumably commutes Stone's sentence. And the court then asks the parties the relatively innocuous question of whether the President commuted the supervised release, too, or just the period of active incarceration. That's a pretty reasonable ask. The Probation Officer just needs to know whether this guy is on supervised release or not.

Now, though, the judge suddenly moved the deadline up to tomorrow. And the speculation is that the Trump Administration NEVER ACTUALLY FILED THE COMMUTATION. Which is really funny.

At the end of the day, it is Bill Barr's DOJ, and Stone isn't serving any time, even if they have to just make up paperwork and predate it.

But watching these people fuck up the most ministerial of tasks should give us all some small pleasure in these trying times.

[JPhillips]

Trump: As an example, we’ve done 45 million tests. If we did half that number, you’d have half the cases, probably around that number. If we did another half of that, you’d have half the numbers. Everyone would be saying we’re doing well on cases

We really couldn't have found a worse leader for this crisis.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Drake

Unrelated: I wish that in addition to a fact-check algorithm, FB and other media platforms had a "logical fallacies" algorithm.

Also unrelated: Regarding the fact-check algorithm that FB uses, does the person who posts a "fact-checked" link also see the fact check? Or is it just everyone else? I kind of like the idea that everyone sees it except the person who posted it.

ETA and related: Who even knew that Tomi Lahren was still a thing in 2020?

I have no idea what this is in reference to, but I suspect if I go to my mother in laws facebook page I will find out.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

We really couldn't have found a worse leader for this crisis.

I can't tell if he really is so stupid that he can't grasp the basic concept that the number of positive tests doesn't equate to the number of cases, or if he full well knows this line of thought is full of shit, but also knows a large portion of his followers are too stupid to grasp it.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I can't tell if he really is so stupid that he can't grasp the basic concept that the number of positive tests doesn't equate to the number of cases, or if he full well knows this line of thought is full of shit, but also knows a large portion of his followers are too stupid to grasp it.

I think it's a 60/60 toss-up.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I think it's a 60/60 toss-up.

Kentucky math

[Ksyrup]

That was the joke! Foiled by everyone making typos on their phones.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I think it's a 60/60 toss-up.

I don't know how I haven't heard this before but holy crap, if this isn't the motto of the times (along with "scream in your heart")...

SI

[Brian Swartz]

From the COVID thread to keep that apolitical:

Originally Posted by Lathum

it is more nuanced than that when public health is concerned.

I don't agree.

Originally Posted by Lathum

It is that putting a mask on is such a simple thing. It just shows how we really don't care about each other as a society.

Except it doesn't show that necessarily. There's a lot of people who believe that we have been in 'cure worse than the disease' territory. That we're reacting in fear to the virus and that reaction is worse than the virus itself, both in terms of the economic cost of the shutdowns, the cultural/societal impact of being willing to change our routines and how that will permanently change us as human beings in certain ways, the basic principle of sacrificing freedom for security, etc.

Some people just don't care, but it's not justified to claim that just because someone doesn't wear a mask means that they don't. The calculation of some people is just different and I've seen it swing both ways on this (i.e. a lot of intolerant dismissal of the economic consequences by pro-restriction folks). The bottom line is we don't get to decide someone doesn't care just because they've come to a different conclusion than we have. No matter how wrong they are, that just doesn't follow.