2009 MLB Regular Season Thread

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Oh please... its pretty easy to get to with MARTA. Why drive down to the stadium?

It's been at least ten years, probably more, since I took Marta anywhere & didn't end up wishing I'd drove. If the pure raw stench of the trains doesn't get you, the lack of adequate trains for most event traffic does. Marta might actually be the organization (and I use the term loosely) that keeps Grady Hospital from being the worst run outfit in the country. They make the federal government look efficient & well run by comparison.

The stadium seating is somewhat lame, but not absurdly so.

Catch-22, as you get lousy seats for reasonable prices or reasonable views at lousy prices.

And don't care if someone sucks in the postseason, his comments were 100% on the money.

We disagree. His job is to give people a reason to want to be there beyond making a donation to the ownership's coffers. Except for one fluke swing, he consistently failed to do that.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It's been at least ten years, probably more, since I took Marta anywhere & didn't end up wishing I'd drove. If the pure raw stench of the trains doesn't get you, the lack of adequate trains for most event traffic does. Marta might actually be the organization (and I use the term loosely) that keeps Grady Hospital from being the worst run outfit in the country. They make the federal government look efficient & well run by comparison.

Like I said, they have tons of shuttles lined up for the Braves games. I've never had to wait very long.

[ISiddiqui]

Well y'all can find me at Turner Field for the next 5 days while the Yanks and Red Sox are in town .

Originally Posted by JohnInMiddleGA

It's been at least ten years, probably more, since I took Marta anywhere & didn't end up wishing I'd drove. If the pure raw stench of the trains doesn't get you, the lack of adequate trains for most event traffic does. Marta might actually be the organization (and I use the term loosely) that keeps Grady Hospital from being the worst run outfit in the country. They make the federal government look efficient & well run by comparison.

And I ride MARTA each and every day to work and back and have little complaints with it. They've even been a minimum of delays lately. It could use some actual funds from the State of GA and the ability to dip into the capital fund, but it is a fairly well run rail system and I'd never think of driving into work.

His job is to give people a reason to want to be there beyond making a donation to the ownership's coffers.

Yeeeeeah, because his regular season contributions had nothing to do with getting them in that position.

And actually in a few series, he played very well, such as the 1991 WS (OPS of .856), 1992 NLCS (OPS of .979 - no way they make it to the WS without his bat), and the 1995 WS (OPS of .850 - no way they win with WS without his bat).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Like I said, they have tons of shuttles lined up for the Braves games. I've never had to wait very long.

But you have to get to those shuttles for that to matter.

I don't mean to suggest that the shuttles are where the system fails to meet expectations, I'll take your word for that part working okay.

[miked]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It's been at least ten years, probably more, since I took Marta anywhere & didn't end up wishing I'd drove. If the pure raw stench of the trains doesn't get you, the lack of adequate trains for most event traffic does. Marta might actually be the organization (and I use the term loosely) that keeps Grady Hospital from being the worst run outfit in the country. They make the federal government look efficient & well run by comparison.

You obviously enjoy traffic (but then again, you don't live near here). My mom lives in Decatur, I can park my car at her apartment and walk to the Decatur MARTA...can be at the entrance to Phillips in 15 minutes (including waiting) or the dome in 20. Trip will cost <$4 round trip and leaving events they usually have a stack of trains waiting. I don't understand why anyone would drive and park for Phillips when it will take you 20 minutes just to get from the highway to the lot, and cost you another $20 to park.

As has been said, imagine the if the idiots in the legislature actually put some money into it. It is one of the only major transportation systems that receives no state money. But hey, they'd rather pray for rain and debate other issues that nobody really cares about.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Catch-22, as you get lousy seats for reasonable prices or reasonable views at lousy prices.

Had to respond to this:

I went and saw the Yankees vs. the Braves last night for $16 (regular price is $11, IIRC), straight back in the Upper Deck. Great seats and a great price.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Yeeeeeah, because his regular season contributions had nothing to do with getting them in that position.

Are we talking about the crowds in the regular season? No.

He's complaints was that the crowds were so much more enthusiastic in Cleveland and my response is that their crowds were getting more reason to be enthusiastic.

You have to look at some perspective for what had come before.
-- The loss to the Twins was a blow for a team that hadn't done anything of note in the adult lifetime of most fans. For a short while, fans believed ... and then Puckett met Liebrandt
-- The loss to the Blue Jays kicked that enthusiasm of '91 in the teeth when Winfield faced Liebrandt.
-- Getting knocked out in the NLCS in '93 felt like an unfortunate reality check
-- Then we get the strike of '94.

By the time '95 got here fans were, legitimately IMO, having a tough time believing that it wouldn't ultimately be more of the same disappointment in the end. 30 years of losing will do that I guess, as I'm sure Cleveland fans could attest. Difference was, '95 was their '91. They hadn't been brought to the brink only to be dashed yet, Atlanta fans had.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miked

You obviously enjoy traffic (but then again, you don't live near here). My mom lives in Decatur

Ahhh ... south side, not north side. Different experience, 'cause I've done it from both.

I don't understand why anyone would drive and park for Phillips when it will take you 20 minutes just to get from the highway to the lot, and cost you another $20 to park.

Phillips/Dome is 10x worse to me, truly never had a good experience with anything but driving for that.

SEC, Falcons, Thrashers, PBR, Monster Trucks, you name it, I've never seen them adequately schedule & have given up on using it for anything there completely. I think the last straw was standing on the temporary bridge to the station for more than two hours after an SEC title game & feeling it sway beneath our feet from the weight as we waited in vain to escape. Although the unintentional comedy of having the PBR and the NBA All-Star game simultaneously, and having both crowds on the platform at the same time was amusing in a bizarro world kind of way

But hey, they'd rather pray for rain and debate other issues that nobody really cares about.

You don't really want a debate on that subject anyway, as the majority of legislators would have their heads chopped off at home -- Macon, Savannah, Dublin, Elberton, et al -- if they voted for tax dollars from there being spent on what is essentially in metro only project. Atlanta is already considered hell on earth by much of the state, last thing anybody from those areas wants is to be forced to pay for one of it's worst aspects.

[Travis]

While I'll never pretend to be a Braves fan, one of things that I've always wondered about is the references to the Braves (and teams like the Bills when they had the Superbowl streak) as losers.

I mean sure, they weren't winning the title, but those were fantastically successful stretches for those franchises. I can understand some frustration from their fans, but I mean come on, it's not like they're sitting through 100 loss seasons and dealing with the game to game struggles of a mediocre team.

Sure, just like the 80's Oilers the expectations become higher the better a team does, but it amazes me how many fans will take that level of regular season accomplishment for granted, never mind the playoff success involved during that time span for both the Braves and Bills (a more recent example being the Eagles even).

Sure it's disappointing, but it's a hell of a lot better than it is for a lot of others teams fans on a yearly basis, never mind over such a prolonged stretch.

Take that for what it's worth from a guy who cheers for the Oilers (was quite young during the glory days, so I'm a lot more familiar with the pain that is cheering for them over the last 15 years), Seahawks and Blue Jays. Been on both sides of the coin with all 3 teams to some extent.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

By the time '95 got here fans were, legitimately IMO, having a tough time believing that it wouldn't ultimately be more of the same disappointment in the end. 30 years of losing will do that I guess, as I'm sure Cleveland fans could attest. Difference was, '95 was their '91. They hadn't been brought to the brink only to be dashed yet, Atlanta fans had.

And as I pointed out, he had a very good World Series in 1995. Braves don't win without his contributions. Saying hopes being dashed is the biggest copout of all time. It's the same excuse they used for saying why they weren't getting crowd after 15 straight division titles. It's basically just an excuse for having crap baseball fans in Atlanta.

[k0ruptr]

Gavin Floyd pitched his 7th QS in a row today and the chisox hit 6 homeruns against the dodgers to win 10-7.

Floyd has really found it lately, hope he keeps it up.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by Travis

While I'll never pretend to be a Braves fan, one of things that I've always wondered about is the references to the Braves (and teams like the Bills when they had the Superbowl streak) as losers.

I mean sure, they weren't winning the title, but those were fantastically successful stretches for those franchises. I can understand some frustration from their fans, but I mean come on, it's not like they're sitting through 100 loss seasons and dealing with the game to game struggles of a mediocre team.

Sure, just like the 80's Oilers the expectations become higher the better a team does, but it amazes me how many fans will take that level of regular season accomplishment for granted, never mind the playoff success involved during that time span for both the Braves and Bills (a more recent example being the Eagles even).

Sure it's disappointing, but it's a hell of a lot better than it is for a lot of others teams fans on a yearly basis, never mind over such a prolonged stretch.

Take that for what it's worth from a guy who cheers for the Oilers (was quite young during the glory days, so I'm a lot more familiar with the pain that is cheering for them over the last 15 years), Seahawks and Blue Jays. Been on both sides of the coin with all 3 teams to some extent.

The Braves won a World Series in their run, they shouldn't be mentioned alongside the Bills at all imo.

[stevew]

To paraphrase Meatloaf

Baby don't be sad-
Cause one of 14 ain't bad.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Travis

While I'll never pretend to be a Braves fan, one of things that I've always wondered about is the references to the Braves (and teams like the Bills when they had the Superbowl streak) as losers.

I mean sure, they weren't winning the title, but those were fantastically successful stretches for those franchises. I can understand some frustration from their fans, but I mean come on, it's not like they're sitting through 100 loss seasons and dealing with the game to game struggles of a mediocre team.

Sure, just like the 80's Oilers the expectations become higher the better a team does, but it amazes me how many fans will take that level of regular season accomplishment for granted, never mind the playoff success involved during that time span for both the Braves and Bills (a more recent example being the Eagles even).

Sure it's disappointing, but it's a hell of a lot better than it is for a lot of others teams fans on a yearly basis, never mind over such a prolonged stretch.

Take that for what it's worth from a guy who cheers for the Oilers (was quite young during the glory days, so I'm a lot more familiar with the pain that is cheering for them over the last 15 years), Seahawks and Blue Jays. Been on both sides of the coin with all 3 teams to some extent.

I agree 100%. That kind of prolonged success is amazing. Even if the Braves had been even more snakebit than they were and won 0 titles, I'd rather be a Braves fan than a Marlins fan any day.

SI

[Travis]

Carpenter vs Santana, this'd be a nice one to be at home watching. Ah how good Carpenter would look in the Jays rotation. Though given how this year has gone and his own injury history, he'd probably have had a career ending injury of some sort by now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

And as I pointed out, he had a very good World Series in 1995. Braves don't win without his contributions.

Huh? Do you mean regular season? Because he sucked in that World Series for the first five games before managing to get two hits (the homer & a double) in Game 6 to raise his average to .250. Prior to that he was just 3 for 18 with no extra base hits.

As he has said since then, if he didn't hit the home run he would have had to leave town immediately following the WS. And he's right about that.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Huh? Do you mean regular season? Because he sucked in that World Series for the first five games before managing to get two hits (the homer & a double) in Game 6 to raise his average to .250. Prior to that he was just 3 for 18 with no extra base hits.

As he has said since then, if he didn't hit the home run he would have had to leave town immediately following the WS. And he's right about that.

During the World Series, he had a .400 OBP and a .450 SLG for an OPS of .850.

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Huh? Do you mean regular season? Because he sucked in that World Series for the first five games before managing to get two hits (the homer & a double) in Game 6 to raise his average to .250. Prior to that he was just 3 for 18 with no extra base hits.

As he has said since then, if he didn't hit the home run he would have had to leave town immediately following the WS. And he's right about that.

I'm not sure which is dumber, judging a guy on 18 ABs or being offended by something an athlete said.

[sterlingice]

With his stats this year, no one is accusing Geovany Soto of taking PEDs. But apparently he was high on something.

SI

[larrymcg421]

Yes, if you ignore the good stuff Justice did in the World Series, then I guess he had a shitty World Series.

He was 0-for-15 in AB's where he did not get a hit.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

During the World Series, he had a .400 OBP and a .450 SLG for an OPS of .850.

Which was only .453 (.286 OBP + .167 SLG) when he opened his mouth.
He was 3/18 with 3 walks in 5 games to that point in the series.

And in the other 19 post-season games since the '92 NLCS against the Pirates, he was just 12/64 with 1 double & 1 home run and 16 walks.
That's 15/82, an OBP of .316 and a SLG of .232 for an OPS of .548 over his five most recent series prior to that night. That's over 80 points lower than Jeff Francouer's YTD OPS for some perspective on how bad he had sucked over that three year period.

To say his numbers for the '95 WS turned significantly with that last game in an understatement. He went 2-4 with a HR, a 2B, and 2 walks in game six. That's the same number of extra base hits he managed in the previous TWENTY-FOUR POST-SEASON GAMES.

I never said he didn't show up for that one game, I said he was about the last guy on earth who had any business opening his mouth since his inability to produce in the post-season was one reason fans had little confidence in the team's chances to win and therefore their dwindled enthusiasm.

Look, you can defend the guy until hell freezes over, but I'm not alone in feeling like he was an arrogant prick who should have spent less time worrying about lame ass excuses like blaming the fans for the collective failures of the team and himself in particular.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Yes, if you ignore the good stuff Justice did in the World Series, then I guess he had a shitty World Series.

Spare me. Please, for the love of all that's Holy, spare me.

We were talking about what he had done to the point where he made the comment. How difficult is that to comprehend? If you can't add anything useful in the right context, how about you just turn the computer off & shut the fuck up?

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And had no business coming from a player who routinely disappeared during the post-season (including that 95 WS except for one lucky swing).

*cough*

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Admittedly, the Royals rarely get to play in Houston. With that said, is there any chance that the left field fence distance is mislabeled? I'd be floored if it's more than 300 feet given the can-of-corn flyballs that have left the yard tonight.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

That short porch in left at Minute Maid is pretty ridiculous.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

dola,

But at the same time, it's not as ridiculous as the fact that deep center is a hill with a flagpole in the middle.

[stevew]

McCutchen battles an 0-2 count and then draws a bases loaded walk to tie the game. Then drives in the winning run in the bottom of the 9th. Now I know the book will probably catch up soon. But he has been amazing.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by stevew

McCutchen battles an 0-2 count and then draws a bases loaded walk to tie the game. Then drives in the winning run in the bottom of the 9th. Now I know the book will probably catch up soon. But he has been amazing.

He is the first home grown guy to come along since Aramis Ramirez to look like he could be a legitimate all-star (on his own merit, rather than by the league taking the obligatory Pirate).

[stevew]

And Ian Snell pulled some Derek Bell type shit today, claiming he wanted to go down to AAA because of the negative attitude he receives. Or some pansy ass reasoning to that effect. So he can take a running start and fuck off. Classic million dollar arm and 10 cent head.

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by stevew

McCutchen battles an 0-2 count and then draws a bases loaded walk to tie the game. Then drives in the winning run in the bottom of the 9th. Now I know the book will probably catch up soon. But he has been amazing.

He's already a guy I wouldn't want to face with the game on the line. I think Matt Herges feels the same way this morning.

[Logan]

McCutchen does seem like he has "it" and it's also pretty cool to see such a player make his debut against your team. Just helps you get into his career a bit more than the typical hot prospect.

[lordscarlet]

NATS WIN! NATS WIN!

It was glorious to hear the silence from all the obnoxious Red Sox fans. I know the Sox took 2/3, but to win 9-3 with a 4 run first inning was fantastic.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Small victories, I guess.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

NATS WIN! NATS WIN!

It was glorious to hear the silence from all the obnoxious Red Sox fans. I know the Sox took 2/3, but to win 9-3 with a 4 run first inning was fantastic.

Another way to silence those fans is to actually have your own fans.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Small victories, I guess.

They've pulled within 7 games of the 2nd worst team in the league, and have done it all while having to make do with being in only the 4th biggest metro area in the US. I would hardly call that a small victory.

[Ksyrup]

The Nats took 1 out of 3 from the Sox and improved their winning percentage. You gotta start somewhere.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I never said he didn't show up for that one game, I said he was about the last guy on earth who had any business opening his mouth since his inability to produce in the post-season was one reason fans had little confidence in the team's chances to win and therefore their dwindled enthusiasm.

Oh no, Justice isn't performing as fans think he should so they aren't going to show up to the FUCKING WORLD SERIES! And you wonder why people say Atlanta has horrible baseball fans?

I don't care if he was batting .001, if fans can't get excited for the World Series, they have no business having a halfway decent team. Even Miami got excited for their World Series appearances.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Logan

Another way to silence those fans is to actually have your own fans.

Well, the annoying thing is there are Nationals fans there, but they don't cheer. I mean, 50%ish of the fans at the park were Red Sox fans, but there were Nats fans there -- they're just shitty fans.

Originally Posted by molson

They've pulled within 7 games of the 2nd worst team in the league, and have done it all while having to make do with being in only the 4th biggest metro area in the US. I would hardly call that a small victory.

I would say rather that they had to do it with 9 games against the AL East.

Maybe I'm reading your post wrong as tongue in cheek, but I think it was, so let me be defensive for a moment.

MLB left this team in DISMAL shape. Two years with real ownership is hardly enough time to turn the team into a contender. The farm system and MLB rosters were pillaged during the MLB ownership years. The Lerners, for better or worse, have gone for a "farm system first" approach. That is obviously a long road. Are they executing that approach well? Perhaps not. Keeping Bowden too long didn't help the situation. But the Nationals are starting 4 rookie pitchers and a 2nd year guy and they are, IMO, doing rather admirable. The hodge-podge bullpen that Bowden put together is a complete failure, though.

Almost halfway through the season the Nationals are middle-of-the-pack in AVG, 6th in OPS and 9th in OBP. Situational hitting is abysmal with the third-worst LOB (577 compared to the best team, the Tigers, at 468), however. It's largely the bullpen ERA that has been the problem. It's a young team and the theory would be that in a few years they'll get hot. We'll see if that actually happens.

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

The Nats took 1 out of 3 from the Sox and improved their winning percentage. You gotta start somewhere.

[molson]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

MLB left this team in DISMAL shape. Two years with real ownership is hardly enough time to turn the team into a contender. The farm system and MLB rosters were pillaged during the MLB ownership years. The Lerners, for better or worse, have gone for a "farm system first" approach. That is obviously a long road. Are they executing that approach well? Perhaps not. Keeping Bowden too long didn't help the situation. But the Nationals are starting 4 rookie pitchers and a 2nd year guy and they are, IMO, doing rather admirable. The hodge-podge bullpen that Bowden put together is a complete failure, though.

I agree with all that, I was just making a good-natured response to the knock on Red Sox fans.

And also, I loved going to baseball games in Montreal.....

I'm curious whether Washington will have a top 5 or 10 payroll at some point soon. Otherwise, the move to Washington might have actually put the franchise in a worse position. I thought the Nationals would create another big-market team to bring the other big markets down just a notch, and bring just a little more competitive balance. But they've basically been Montreal south.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by molson

I agree with all that, I was just making a good-natured response to the knock on Red Sox fans.

And also, I loved going to baseball games in Montreal.....

I'm curious whether Washington will have a top 5 or 10 payroll at some point soon. Otherwise, the move to Washington might have actually put the franchise in a worse position. I thought the Nationals would create another big-market team to bring the other big markets down just a notch, and bring just a little more competitive balance. But they've basically been Montreal south.

They sold to the wrong owners.

The Lerners have pretty much said they won't be spending a lot of money. I can't find the quote, but I can look harder if you want. But they have basically said they don't think they should have to spend like NYY, BOS and CHC. It does annoy me that people call the Nationals a "small market team" when DC is not a small market. The Lerners did get screwed on one of the most potentially lucrative parts of the deal (the TV rights), but if they doubled the salary and really brought in some talent and succeeded, they would have a fan base. Instead they'll probably be somewhere in the realm of the of the Indians (who appear to be 15th in salary this year).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Oh no, Justice isn't performing as fans think he should so they aren't going to show up to the FUCKING WORLD SERIES! And you wonder why people say Atlanta has horrible baseball fans? ... Even Miami got excited for their World Series appearances.

That's not only Justice, I'm talking about the general lack of belief (or reason to believe) that the Braves were going to win in the post-season.

My contention is that the lack of confidence in the team set in extremely early (as early as the b2b WS losses or even after the first one) in their playoff streak. After the loss to the Twins, the malaise had already set in, with Cabrera's pinch hit reviving it only to see the Blue Jays do them in. Loss in the NLCS in '93, then trailing the Expos when the strike hit in '94, which direction did the team seem to be heading? And looking at what followed after '95, that lack of confidence seems pretty well founded.

It seems to be lost on some folks in this thread that the Braves fan enthusiasm & energy, specifically the whole Chop Shop thing, was covered ad nauseaum by the media in the first couple of years. To the point that I remember complaints about it being covered (nothing to do with the whole native American symbol pseudo-controversy). It's not that fans here won't get involved, but they have to at least believe there's some point to it. And it's not traditional frontrunning, it's about seeing progress or reason to hope. I'd say there's a pretty good argument that the fans were more excited by & had more fun with the 13 game winning streak to start '92 than with most of the playoff appearances, it washed away the disappointing end of '91. The press box fire that coincided with McGriff's arrival in '93 helped generate excitement after another disapointing finish, but that got wiped out too. Getting there when you haven't, that's great. Winning it when you haven't, that's great too. Get there & lose repeatedly, that gets old to a lot of people.

Going to a WS game (or playoff game or whatever) for the sake of going is fine & dandy once or maybe even twice. Been there done that myself, so I get that part of the appeal. After a while though, I don't see much to be excited about if you're just going to watch your team lose. The thrill of just being there wears off pretty quickly. And that's what people expected -- losing -- the win over the Indians was pretty damned shocking stuff.

As for Miami, the Marlins record is World Series' is ... {cue Jeopardy music}
Lot easier to be excited when you think you might win something (and even on the first run, they believed even in the absence of historical evidence, so did the Braves the first time around). After Liebrandt came out of the bullpen a couple of times, Braves fans didn't believe and really haven't since, and likely won't as long as Cox is in the dugout.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'm talking about the general lack of belief (or reason to believe) that the Braves were going to win in the post-season.

And it's not traditional frontrunning, it's about seeing progress or reason to hope. I'd say there's a pretty good argument that the fans were more excited by & had more fun with the 13 game winning streak to start '92 than with most of the playoff appearances, it washed away the disappointing end of '91. The press box fire that coincided with McGriff's arrival in '93 helped generate excitement after another disapointing finish, but that got wiped out too. Getting there when you haven't, that's great. Winning it when you haven't, that's great too. Get there & lose repeatedly, that gets old to a lot of people.

Going to a WS game (or playoff game or whatever) for the sake of going is fine & dandy once or maybe even twice. Been there done that myself, so I get that part of the appeal. After a while though, I don't see much to be excited about if you're just going to watch your team lose. The thrill of just being there wears off pretty quickly. And that's what people expected -- losing -- the win over the Indians was pretty damned shocking stuff.

So basically a whole bunch of excuses for being sucky fans. There is a reason Braves fans are laughed at in the rest of the country. It really basically is frontrunning. All these other things are just excuses. Bills fans still went to the 4th SuperBowl even though they lost the 3 in a row.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

So basically a whole bunch of excuses for being sucky fans. There is a reason Braves fans are laughed at in the rest of the country. It really basically is frontrunning. All these other things are just excuses. Bills fans still went to the 4th SuperBowl even though they lost the 3 in a row.

If not losing your mind with rapturous delight no matter what's happening = sucky fans {shrug} so be it I guess. But we're almost to the point that I could take that as two separate topics really, because I'm about the last guy on earth who will ever defend the people in the seats at Turner Field as knowledgeable baseball fans.

There's relatively few people at any Braves game in the past decade or so that care much for the team or the game, it's a social outing (akin to what Dodger Stadium had/has? a rep for). Most people in these parts who actually know the game or care just watch at home for the reasons we talked about earlier. The good of being there simply doesn't outweigh the negatives that go with being there. The Braves core audience for as long as I can remember has been suburban and increasingly over 20-30 years even exurban, the demographics of baseball & the city itself haven't resembled each other in years. The average Braves fan is 40+, maybe 50+ at this point and for the vast majority the only time we consider going to the stadium is if there's kids or grandkids involved. Otherwise we enjoy it more where the beer isn't $8, there's no line at the bathroom, and parking in the garage is free. So yeah, there's not a big diehard baseball contingent at a Braves game on a Wednesday night nor for a perfect night in October for that matter. I'd guess it would have one of the lower baseball IQ's of any stadium in the country on a regular basis.

But that really becomes separate from what Justice griped about & why I thought he was wholly out of line, they were failing to give the people that were in the seats reason to be enthusiastic. By '95, just being there wasn't going to cut it & until you show 'em, they aren't going to be fooled again. And it was insultingly arrogant of him not to recognize that. If fans elsewhere don't have the same standard, well, I'd say that's their problem not Atlanta's.

Meanwhile I'm sure you'd have no problems finding enough Braves fans willing to pay ridiculous prices like Super Bowl tickets too if you're only trying to sell the relative handful of tickets that are available to the general public. I mean even the Falcons didn't have any trouble selling their SB ticket allotment afaik even though they can't sell out playoff games to save their lives. Probably not the best comparison there, regardless of however much we disagree about the rest of this, that's just too apples & oranges.

[ISiddiqui]

If fans elsewhere don't have the same standard, well, I'd say that's their problem not Atlanta's.

There is a reason Atlanta Braves fans have such a piss poor reputation in the rest of the country. Its not just made up. But it seems we both agree on the type of fan attends games.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

But it seems we both agree on the type of fan attends games.

It appears that way, but I genuinely believe that's a different issue than the one we started with although I recognize now that I probably should have separated the two things sooner than I did.

[Atocep]

Is Bruce Chen really pitching for the Royals today?

[stevew]

Yeah. The Pirates are baffled by his awesomeness thru 3.

I guess this is a Grays/Monarchs game.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Is Bruce Chen really pitching for the Royals today?

I had no idea they still made that.

[JonInMiddleGA]

So apparently JC Romero physically attacked a fan in Tampa after the fan asked him to get him some steroids.

My question is how could any headline writer avoid using the phrase "roid rage" on that story?

[RainMaker]

Back in 2003 I went to Atlanta to see the Cubs play them in the NLDS. I kid you not it was 50% Cubs fans. I had no problem getting tickets either.