Werewolf XLV - ROME! (Game over, post 3425)

[st.cronin]

I'm doing the best I can. This is far and away the most difficult game I've run yet.

[path12]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I'm doing the best I can. This is far and away the most difficult game I've run yet.

I think you've done a good job so far, I think this would be a tough game to run... Although you do have me reviewing my ruleset for my upcoming game to make sure I'm not going to drive myself crazy........

[Lorena]

I just woke up and need to get some stuff done so I'm gonna post and take off for a few. I won the services of Ardent Enthusiast and apparently I'm still able to scan someone. If anyone can throw some names out I'd appreciate it.

I'll be back and comment some more.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Autumn

As I've stated elsewhere, I don't suspect Dodgerchick. The rest of this list though seem worthy of suspicion. If no one has evidence or a scan on any of these, we will have to find some way to pick from them.

I'm trying to catch up. Has Ironhead chosen an arrest suspect yet?

I thought you had thought Pass was not a traitor a few days ago?

I still am not sure if DC's messages are more and act or serious.. I tend to think serious but.. who knows.

[Autumn]

So, we need to make a decision on a scan and an arrest. I'm open to people's thoughts. I'll take a look through the posts and think about it myself.

[Autumn]

Well, I wouldn't say I thought he wasn't a traitor. But I didn't see any evidence, especially with teh player turnover just around then. It seemed worth giving some more time. I'll have to go back and look, but you're right that at the moment I don't have any damning evidence there other than the likelihood of there having been a rich traitor.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Autumn

So, we need to make a decision on a scan and an arrest. I'm open to people's thoughts. I'll take a look through the posts and think about it myself.

Torgo. Still.

[path12]

My candidates for a scan would be the consuls and tribune. If they're bad we're screwed.

Current candidates for arrest would be Tyrith and CW (I don't understand the lawyer capability that Ironhead pointed out yet).

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by path12

My candidates for a scan would be the consuls and tribune. If they're bad we're screwed.

Current candidates for arrest would be Tyrith and CW (I don't understand the lawyer capability that Ironhead pointed out yet).

Essentially, if you have the lawyer hired, you can appoint him as lawyer of the Senate and use him to prosecute instead of defense a traitor.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

I just woke up and need to get some stuff done so I'm gonna post and take off for a few. I won the services of Ardent Enthusiast and apparently I'm still able to scan someone. If anyone can throw some names out I'd appreciate it.

I'll be back and comment some more.

I suggest scanning Ardent and Kwhit or maybe CR. kwhit has been MIA and we need him on board to make the CR plan work, he is too rich. Ardent also being so rich and as the lawyer. CR because if he has the strongest good feel, so maybe just to try and make sure he is not bad. I don't know, I would probably go with Ardent. If Kwhit does not show up by deadline, I would go there.

[Grammaticus]

Actually DC, are you saying that you have a scan left over from yesterday? Or is is something that must be used at deadline today?

[path12]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Essentially, if you have the lawyer hired, you can appoint him as lawyer of the Senate and use him to prosecute instead of defense a traitor.

Jesus, how bad is it that it's day seven and I don't understand how every role works yet.

I had been under the belief that if the lawyer is hired that you said he could not both scan and defend in the same turn and someone else (don't have time to look it up right now) said that they hired the lawyer and they could do both. Which is the main basis of my suspicion toward you because up to now I've leaned towards you being good.

Am I wrong in my understanding? Also, if I understand what you're saying above, a lawyer can prosecute OR defend depending on who hired him? So a Tarq would be interested in hiring the lawyer in order to prosecute an innocent person in jail?

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by path12

I had been under the belief that if the lawyer is hired that you said he could not both scan and defend in the same turn and someone else (don't have time to look it up right now) said that they hired the lawyer and they could do both. Which is the main basis of my suspicion toward you because up to now I've leaned towards you being good.

To recap on how the lawyer worked when I had him (and bear in mind, I was in jail the day I had him)

- May use to defend yourself at the prison trial.
- May use in pending lawsuits.
- Will get 1 scan of person.

OR

- May appoint for the Senate and prosecute instead of defend.
- Will get 1 scan of person

From what I understand, the italicized part is the point of contention. Anxiety said it was an either/or on that part. That part was not clarified to me when I had the lawyer, and I didn't bother asking, 'cause obviously I wasn't gonna prosecute myself.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

To recap on how the lawyer worked when I had him (and bear in mind, I was in jail the day I had him)

- May use to defend yourself at the prison trial.
- May use in pending lawsuits.
- Will get 1 scan of person.

OR

- May appoint for the Senate and prosecute instead of defend.
- Will get 1 scan of person

From what I understand, the italicized part is the point of contention. Anxiety said it was an either/or on that part. That part was not clarified to me when I had the lawyer, and I didn't bother asking, 'cause obviously I wasn't gonna prosecute myself.

So, she should be able to defend herself with the lawyer and get a scan as well as use the lawyer in pending law suits. Right?

[Coffee Warlord]

I was able to do that, yes. I see no reason why she couldn't do that.

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Actually DC, are you saying that you have a scan left over from yesterday? Or is is something that must be used at deadline today?

Yes, due today.

[Coffee Warlord]

Vote Both Innocent

Basketball game tonight, not gonna be around.

I still think DT and AE are our traitors. Likely there's at least one more left aside from those two, but I've said I don't trust them from early on, and I still don't. Dodgerchick... I'm just not sure. Not gonna go along with the pack on this one. Barkeep, I still think highly of, and believe he was simply a victim of horrible timing/luck.

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

To recap on how the lawyer worked when I had him (and bear in mind, I was in jail the day I had him)

- May use to defend yourself at the prison trial.
- May use in pending lawsuits.
- Will get 1 scan of person.

OR

- May appoint for the Senate and prosecute instead of defend.
- Will get 1 scan of person

I had to re-read my PM. The first time I got Ardent (who was #2 at the time), I could have prosecuted Coffee Warlord on behalf of the senate or had someone scanned. I chose not to prosecute Coffee Warlord and decided to have Ardent investigate AlanT.

[Lorena]

So basically what CW is saying is right, except I'm not sure about the use in pending lawsuits because if that was the case, I should have won my lawsuit against Imthecrew because I had Ardent at the time.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Vote Both Innocent

Basketball game tonight, not gonna be around.

I still think DT and AE are our traitors. Likely there's at least one more left aside from those two, but I've said I don't trust them from early on, and I still don't. Dodgerchick... I'm just not sure. Not gonna go along with the pack on this one. Barkeep, I still think highly of, and believe he was simply a victim of horrible timing/luck.

I don't think you can vote innocent for both.

Originally Posted by st.cronin

PRIMER:

Today Senators must vote to execute either Barkeepus Valerius of Dodgeus Erchickus.

[Coffee Warlord]

Blegh.

Lesser of two evils, then.

Vote Execute Dodgerus Chickus

Sorry DC, I trust Barkeep more than I trust you.

[Lorena]

I swear the more I read this the more I'm wondering if there are no Tarqs... I mean what IF the whole purpose of this game is to become the wealthiest person/s in the Republic.

Dunno I'm so confused

[Autumn]

All right, I'm wiating to hear from Ironus Headus about what Senator he plans to arrest tonight, or at least a list so I can make sure we don't duplicate.

[Lorena]

Dang I just can't keep up. It's work, sleep, kids, and housework, not much else... no more ww games while I'm employed I just can't hack it all. It's almost stressful to play and it shouldn't because it's just a game. But on a personal note, we have to get our son evaluated for autism so that has been on my mind as well and that's why I've been overly sensitive.

Anyway, I guess I need to vote. Obviously I'm gonna vote myself innocent but if I understand the rules, then by hiring Ardent then I should be able to be a free woman... err, man I guess.

vote dodgerchick innocent
vote bk guilty

Can I sue while in jail I don't even know... if someone can answer that I'd appreciate it. I'm off for a few hours.

[Ironhead]

Autumn - I just got home from work. Going to grab something to eat while scanning through what I have missed.

[Tyrith]

Like CW, I really, really hate this choice. DC just seems to be acting like DC. BK doesn't really have any evidence against him....aw, damnit.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Vote Both Innocent

I still think...AE are our traitors.

Wanna bet?

[Poli]

DC, would you scan Kwhit? Blast, she's already gone.

I'm finding it strangely suspicious Kwhit is nowhere to be found at a critical point. I know he visited another board earlier today.

Not that I'm stalking or metagaming, I'm just saying...

[Barkeep49]

[quote=Autumn;1443942
Pretending to use the lawyer, but actually bidding on other services would be a devious traitor route to go, certainly. But if so, why scan and confirm loyalty for three people who actually are loyal? Woudln't it be much smarter to cast doubt on some loyal people and confuse us, or confirm some traitors as loyal? That seems too ridiculous a move by a wolf to believe.
[/QUOTE]
Every wolf can act as the seer since they know who the other bad guys are. Giving out information clearing others builds trust from those others since they know that they are indeed innocent. I think you'll find many veterans having used this ploy in the past, I know I have, when wolves. DC might not be an experienced wolf, but she is an experienced player. When I started playing I was a wolf nearly every time. When I started becoming a villager, my play was still very wolfish leading me to get killed early on in a lot of games. I see no reason to think that her first time as a wolf wouldn't be very close to how she is as a villager, considering all of her villager experience.

[Coffee Warlord]

If reports are to be believed, we've scanned KWhit TWICE now.

Clear someone else.

[Poli]

Working a conspiracy theory angle, this could make kwhit, anxiety, and CW all look bad.

They've all vouched for each other.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

I swear the more I read this the more I'm wondering if there are no Tarqs... I mean what IF the whole purpose of this game is to become the wealthiest person/s in the Republic.

Dunno I'm so confused

I actually think the fact that we never had a publicly announced victory condition lends some credence to the idea that killing all of the Tarqs isn't the real victory condition and is perhaps indeed something to do with money.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

If reports are to be believed, we've scanned KWhit TWICE now.

Clear someone else.

Right, and at this point in my conspiracy theory I'm not sure I believe either of you.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Like CW, I really, really hate this choice. DC just seems to be acting like DC. BK doesn't really have any evidence against him....aw, damnit.

I agree the mechanics of the game are unfortunate. It was why I was hoping Peregrine, who hasn't even been around today, would rethink his choice to arrest me.

[Tyrith]

VOTE EXECUTE DC

At this point, she seems stressed enough that she could have had that kind of an outburst and not necessarily be good. Really...the lesser of two evils, but I can't let me out of game feelings interfere with what I feel is more likely to be the correct choice right now.

[path12]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Not that I'm stalking or metagaming, I'm just saying...

Stalker.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Every wolf can act as the seer since they know who the other bad guys are. Giving out information clearing others builds trust from those others since they know that they are indeed innocent. I think you'll find many veterans having used this ploy in the past, I know I have, when wolves. DC might not be an experienced wolf, but she is an experienced player. When I started playing I was a wolf nearly every time. When I started becoming a villager, my play was still very wolfish leading me to get killed early on in a lot of games. I see no reason to think that her first time as a wolf wouldn't be very close to how she is as a villager, considering all of her villager experience.

I understand using that deception to build trust. But it seems this would be taking it excessively far. Why give an accurate read on three people? Seems like a huge wasted opportunity to create some confusion or dissent.

[Barkeep49]

DOLA -- This is a case where one candidate is better than none. If we have just one person we're able to more easily free or kill that person. In this way we're forced to kill and free someone. This was not how I anticipated the dynamic playing out.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I agree the mechanics of the game are unfortunate. It was why I was hoping Peregrine, who hasn't even been around today, would rethink his choice to arrest me.

I believe that Senator Peregrinus was poisoned in his sleep last night, didn't you hear?

[Barkeep49]

Wow was my dola interrupted.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I believe that Senator Peregrinus was poisoned in his sleep last night, didn't you hear?

Oh yeah. Forgot. I maintain the idea though that he hasn't been around . You've just kind of excused his absence.

[Poli]

Autumn and Ironhead:

I hope you've read what I've posted in the last few minutes. I think I *might* be on to something here.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I understand using that deception to build trust. But it seems this would be taking it excessively far. Why give an accurate read on three people? Seems like a huge wasted opportunity to create some confusion or dissent.

Except look at the confusion and dissent we have. Being honest, while undermining the villagers cause (by not taking out of play some of the more powerful bad guy powers) seems like a great way to build trust. I mean doesn't it figure that one of the richest people to start with was a bad guy?

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Oh yeah. Forgot. I maintain the idea though that he hasn't been around . You've just kind of excused his absence.

He can take blame from beyond the grave.

[Barkeep49]

I should add while I felt real good about DC as a bad guy at the start of the day my enthusiasm for her has waned, but I still think a better case can be made for her being a bad guy than me (obviously).

[Autumn]

I agree, Ardentus. Those three have created a bit of a self-congratulatory circle there, and if one of them is not to be trusted we have to worry about all of them.

[Poli]

To me, it just seems like Kwhit had an important role in what had to happen yesterday, and he hasn't shown to report it.

I could understand if he had something keeping him from coming in, but I just happened to see him at the MP FOF league forums. I wasn't looking for him specifically, as I had MP leagues on my mind at the time, but found it odd to see him there and not here.

[Autumn]

I'm going to go eat. I'll be after that to check in.

[Poli]

Looking at the last time he's logged in, he had an opportunity to let us know then as well.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I agree, Ardentus. Those three have created a bit of a self-congratulatory circle there, and if one of them is not to be trusted we have to worry about all of them.

Yeah, but doesn't there have to be a point if someone is cleared twice we need to just accept that and try and get a read on someone else? If we're not going to trust the scan results the only way we're gonna clear anyone is after they're thrown off the friggin' rock.

I'm for clearing different people, whatever that's worth. I do not see how multiple scans help us.