The Trump Presidency – 2016

[Easy Mac]

I just want to hear him say "I am an EF Bee Eye Agent"

[molson]

So what is the end game for Trump and company with all this Russia stuff? Is this just debt from Russia for helping them win an election? Or is there some plan going forward? Why do these guys love Russia so much? Please explain like I'm 5, I've missed the trees for the forest here.

[Groundhog]

It's just business, that's all. $.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Principled Rand Paul speaks:

"I just don't think it's useful to be doing investigation after investigation, particularly of your own party. We'll never even get started with doing the things we need to do, like repealing Obamacare, if we're spending our whole time having Republicans investigate Republicans. I think it makes no sense."

To be fair that's almost all the GOP congressional delegation. They're willing to let Trump do damn near anything because opposing him in any way risks their legislative agenda.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by molson

So what is the end game for Trump and company with all this Russia stuff? Is this just debt from Russia for helping them win an election? Or is there some plan going forward? Why do these guys love Russia so much? Please explain like I'm 5, I've missed the trees for the forest here.

All I know is that it's going to ruin Red Dawn if we have to be friends with the Russians.

I'm not ready to give up Red Dawn yet.

[JPhillips]

Oh. My.

Phone records and intercepted calls show that members of Donald J. Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign and other Trump associates had repeated contacts with senior Russian intelligence officials in the year before the election, according to four current and former American officials.

If this is true I suspect you'll fairly rapidly see GOPers jump ship. Nobody is going to want to ride out that.

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by molson

So what is the end game for Trump and company with all this Russia stuff? Is this just debt from Russia for helping them win an election? Or is there some plan going forward? Why do these guys love Russia so much? Please explain like I'm 5, I've missed the trees for the forest here.

Maybe it was Trump's way out in case he did win. They kept Pence out of the loop so he can step in.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Drake

All I know is that it's going to ruin Red Dawn if we have to be friends with the Russians.

I'm not ready to give up Red Dawn yet.

Just watch the remake.

[ISiddiqui]

Holy shit. I know that Trump will try to say the New York Times is fake news, but his campaign working with Russian intelligence during the election is treasonous and definitely a 'high crime'.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Just watch the remake.

That remake is worse than treason.

[stevew]

The remake did have some really good steadicam action sequences in the middle.

[Groundhog]

It feels bit too conspiracy theory-ish to credit Putin and Russia with both the election result and the continual leaks and Russian links, but man.... I'm close. How things are turning out just seems to align with Russia's goals perfectly.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

It feels bit too conspiracy theory-ish to credit Putin and Russia with both the election result and the continual leaks and Russian links, but man.... I'm close. How things are turning out just seems to align with Russia's goals perfectly.

Except that there was a leak from the White House today saying Trump expects Russia to return Crimea.

[Groundhog]

I wouldn't be surprised if Russia did tell them exactly that, even before Trump won. Doesn't mean they will actually do it, though.

[CrimsonFox]

Remember in Catch-22 when Col. Cathcart makes a deal with the Germans to take the cotton off their hands if Cathcart agrees to run missions to bomb his own base?

I'm feeling like that.

[Jas_lov]

He's on a tweet storm again this morning. Maybe he wouldn't have so many leaks from the intelligence agencies if he hadn't attacked them before he took office.

[Easy Mac]

Its not leaks, its fake news. Or wait its not fake news, its leaks. Either way, he's definitely not a communist.

[Atocep]

An update to my situation as it comes to the freeze on government hiring and my wife's PCS orders. She successfully appealed to get the orders dropped so we're staying here. If she had kept the orders I would have vacated my position at the start of 2 massive IT projects (both once every 5-10 years type of projects) in a hospital. They would not have been able to fill my position and I would not have been able to transfer my job to her new duty assignment.

This is big for us. It allows us to stay here for the next 3 years and it means my son can finish high school before we move on and not have to transfer during his freshman year.

[JPhillips]

So if Flynn was treated "very unfairly" by "fake media", why did Trump fire him?

[QuikSand]

President Donald Trump: Just who the hell do you think you are? | Miami Herald

It does feel like critics are doing a bit of over-the-top "look at me" stuff in talking/writing about this president. I can't sort out to what extent I think it's justified.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

To be fair that's almost all the GOP congressional delegation. They're willing to let Trump do damn near anything because opposing him in any way risks their legislative agenda.

No it doesn't. If Trump falls, next in line is Pence. If Pence falls, next in line is Ryan.

The only threat to their legislative agenda is if somehow ALL THREE were in on whatever Russo-Trumpian shenanigans were going on.

[Easy Mac]

I think it severely weakens the party if the President goes down.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

President Donald Trump: Just who the hell do you think you are? | Miami Herald

It does feel like critics are doing a bit of over-the-top "look at me" stuff in talking/writing about this president. I can't sort out to what extent I think it's justified.

To be fair, this is the most "look at me" President I've ever seen. So the motto of live by the sword, die by the sword, has to come into play somehow.

[QuikSand]

Sounds like Puzder (Labor nominee) is withdrawing today.

[ISiddiqui]

There were something like 7-12 GOP Senators who were refusing to support him. He managed to piss off quite a bit of them.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

I think it severely weakens the party if the President goes down.

Maybe. But to what extent is the GOP likely to abandon their legislative priorities if the President goes down? It's not as if the Senate would automagically flip to Democratic control or Nancy Pelosi becomes Speaker again.

"Elections have consequences" is a popular line, and if Trump were to be impeached or to resign, the GOP would not miss a beat in trying to craft their conservative utopia. "Well, we may have had to do our Constitutional duty and impeach Trump over his ties with Russia, but you know what? The American people elected us to do our jobs, too, and that means repealing Obamacare, rolling back job-killing regulations, protecting the sanctity of life, and making sure judges are confirmed who respect the Constitutional role of the courts and don't legislate from the bench."

That, or something very like it, would be the party line between now and the 2018 midterms if we found ourselves with a President Pence (or even a President Ryan).

[stevew]

Seems like some sort of grand compromise could be struck here.

Trump gets impeached, removed and tried for treason
Pence becomes President and gets his choice of a palatable VP.
RBG resigns and is replaced by a democratic justice of choice. Hell even just Garland.
Pence gets his justice thru and his cabinet fast tracked within reason
We reboot the whole process and call for a new constitutional convention.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by stevew

Seems like some sort of grand compromise could be struck here.

Trump gets impeached, removed and tried for treason
Pence becomes President and gets his choice of a palatable VP.
RBG resigns and is replaced by a democratic justice of choice. Hell even just Garland.
Pence gets his justice thru and his cabinet fast tracked within reason
We reboot the whole process and call for a new constitutional convention.

JPhillips has said this numerous times and I will just echo his statements. If you guys think Trump's policies make your blood boil just wait what happens if you get your Trump impeachment/resignation. You will be begging for Trump the egomaniac.

[Atocep]

His statement on Isreal was ignorant and reckless.

[Jas_lov]

The compromise would be Trump resigns and gets pardoned by Pence. Then he could start his tv network and tweet all day.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by stevew

Seems like some sort of grand compromise could be struck here.

Trump gets impeached, removed and tried for treason
Pence becomes President and gets his choice of a palatable VP.
RBG resigns and is replaced by a democratic justice of choice. Hell even just Garland.
Pence gets his justice thru and his cabinet fast tracked within reason
We reboot the whole process and call for a new constitutional convention.

Why would the Republicans piss off half their party that worships Trump? Those people voted against "the establishment" because it was used as their scapegoat in their lives. How mad do you think they'll be when you replace their guy with an establishment guy?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by panerd

JPhillips has said this numerous times and I will just echo his statements. If you guys think Trump's policies make your blood boil just wait what happens if you get your Trump impeachment/resignation. You will be begging for Trump the egomaniac.

Pence is at least a sane human being. Don't agree with a lot of his views but I don't think he's going to start a war or destroy century old alliances because someone made fun of him on Twitter. I'll take a far-left or far-right President over a mentally ill one any day.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

No it doesn't. If Trump falls, next in line is Pence. If Pence falls, next in line is Ryan.

The only threat to their legislative agenda is if somehow ALL THREE were in on whatever Russo-Trumpian shenanigans were going on.

That's if they get rid of him. I'm talking about pissing him off without going so far as to impeach.

But as I said earlier, if they think it likely to happen at some point, I think there's a lot of benefit for the GOP to impeach sooner rather than later. Pence or Ryan will deliver a legislative agenda much more predictably orthodox, and there's a lot of time for wounds to heal between now and Nov. 2018.

The problem is the time and the unknown. There's a limited amount of legislative time before 2018, so the GOP doesn't want to grind things to a halt for a month or two. Also, a party hasn't impeached their own, and it's an awfully big bet to make.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by panerd

JPhillips has said this numerous times and I will just echo his statements. If you guys think Trump's policies make your blood boil just wait what happens if you get your Trump impeachment/resignation. You will be begging for Trump the egomaniac.

Yes.

But, Trump is so uniquely dangerous to the republic that, while I'd fight his policies, I'd be much happier with Pence in charge. Trump is the worst thing that can happen to the GOP, maybe an extinction level event, but the country is more important.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Sounds like Puzder (Labor nominee) is withdrawing today.

Video of his ex-wife talking about beating her from an Oprah show in 1990 was probably the last straw for him.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by stevew

Seems like some sort of grand compromise could be struck here.

Trump gets impeached, removed and tried for treason
Pence becomes President and gets his choice of a palatable VP.
RBG resigns and is replaced by a democratic justice of choice. Hell even just Garland.
Pence gets his justice thru and his cabinet fast tracked within reason
We reboot the whole process and call for a new constitutional convention.

"reboot the whole process and call for a new constitutional convention" is less "compromise" and more "tactical nuke." Once that convention gets called, anything goes; given the current makeup of state legislatures, that could effectively mean constitutional amendments outlawing abortion, nerfing the 14th Amendment and allowing religious-based discrimination, and so on. You'd be talking about generational, and possibly permanent, defeat on a wide swath of issues in exchange for getting rid of Trump. It's the Kobayashi Maru of "doing the best thing for the Country."

Points 1-4 could form the framework for a "grand compromise," but #5? That's a "heads we win, tails you lose" element.

Originally Posted by JPhillips

That's if they get rid of him. I'm talking about pissing him off without going so far as to impeach.

But as I said earlier, if they think it likely to happen at some point, I think there's a lot of benefit for the GOP to impeach sooner rather than later. Pence or Ryan will deliver a legislative agenda much more predictably orthodox, and there's a lot of time for wounds to heal between now and Nov. 2018.

The problem is the time and the unknown. There's a limited amount of legislative time before 2018, so the GOP doesn't want to grind things to a halt for a month or two. Also, a party hasn't impeached their own, and it's an awfully big bet to make.

Counterpoint: the effort to impeach Clinton and the talk about impeaching Obama painted the GOP as desperate to get revenge for Nixon. If the GOP impeaches Trump, that allows them to wrap themselves in the flag and say "it's not about politics, it's about the strength of the Republic."

Is it a gamble? Yes. But remember that Democrats are playing massive, massive defense in the Senate, and that House district lines are drawn such that it would take about a 5-6% lead for a generic Democrat for them to flip the House. Even with the razor thin Senate margin, Republicans are still defending about 1/3 as many seats as Democrats are, and several of the ones Democrats have to defend are in GOP-friendly states.

The right spin gets Trump out of the Oval Office and preserves Republican majorities in Congress.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

"reboot the whole process and call for a new constitutional convention" is less "compromise" and more "tactical nuke." Once that convention gets called, anything goes; given the current makeup of state legislatures, that could effectively mean constitutional amendments outlawing abortion, nerfing the 14th Amendment and allowing religious-based discrimination, and so on. You'd be talking about generational, and possibly permanent, defeat on a wide swath of issues in exchange for getting rid of Trump. It's the Kobayashi Maru of "doing the best thing for the Country."

Eh... any Constitutional Convention would run into ratification issues. They may decide how their new Constitution would have to be ratified in order to be the 'law of the land', but I'd guarantee that those states who rejected ratification would assert that they are not under the new Constitution but the old.

Of course that may likely lead to civil war, so that's likely not ideal either.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

"reboot the whole process and call for a new constitutional convention" is less "compromise" and more "tactical nuke." Once that convention gets called, anything goes; given the current makeup of state legislatures, that could effectively mean constitutional amendments outlawing abortion, nerfing the 14th Amendment and allowing religious-based discrimination, and so on. You'd be talking about generational, and possibly permanent, defeat on a wide swath of issues in exchange for getting rid of Trump. It's the Kobayashi Maru of "doing the best thing for the Country."

Points 1-4 could form the framework for a "grand compromise," but #5? That's a "heads we win, tails you lose" element.


Counterpoint: the effort to impeach Clinton and the talk about impeaching Obama painted the GOP as desperate to get revenge for Nixon. If the GOP impeaches Trump, that allows them to wrap themselves in the flag and say "it's not about politics, it's about the strength of the Republic."

Is it a gamble? Yes. But remember that Democrats are playing massive, massive defense in the Senate, and that House district lines are drawn such that it would take about a 5-6% lead for a generic Democrat for them to flip the House. Even with the razor thin Senate margin, Republicans are still defending about 1/3 as many seats as Democrats are, and several of the ones Democrats have to defend are in GOP-friendly states.

The right spin gets Trump out of the Oval Office and preserves Republican majorities in Congress.

I still don't understand what is the upside for Republicans in this scenario. They anger their base for what?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

That remake is worse than treason.

It wasn't that bad but definitely not as good as the original.

[SackAttack]

Their base is going to be angered by anything short of "and a pony, too" at this point. They've had the Presidency and Congress for almost a whole month and Obamacare STILL hasn't been repealed OMGWTFBBQ.

Put another way: are Republicans going to abandon the party in the midterms and either not vote, or vote for Democrats? Probably not. Can they spin it to be palatable to independents? Sure. If, four years from now, they can point to 'look at all the shit we got done,' are base Republicans going to care that Trump was dumped and vote for Chelsea Clinton (or whoever the hell) instead?

[JPhillips]

The optimal situation for the GOP is Trump resigning without articles of impeachment, but I just don't see Trump leaving without burning the buildings and salting the earth.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Atocep

His statement on _______ was ignorant and reckless.

Fixed it for you. Madlibs president!

[CrescentMoonie]

Cheeto-in-chief is holding a 2020 campaign rally on Saturday.

[Swaggs]

The Russia-US stuff is all going to come down to oil and rich folks getting richer.

There is just too much going on there, between the big Russian oil sell off to unknown buyers, the Flynn stuff, Tillerson as secretary of state, and the leaks that certainly appeared to hurt Hillary (rather than both candidates).

I think Trump may have even had some good intentions, in thinking that a stronger Russia may provide more direct competition for China. The problem is he has been playing checkers with grandmaster chess players in Putin, Tillerson, etc (and I think Obama had some awareness, hence the late stage Arctic drilling ban and expulsion of the Russian agents).

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

(and I think Obama had some awareness, hence the late stage Arctic drilling ban and expulsion of the Russian agents).

Log In - New York Times

Obama did that pretty close to the end too. Looks pretty interesting after yesterday's revelations.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

Cheeto-in-chief is holding a 2020 campaign rally on Saturday.

I'm likely to be there protesting against him ... that's my neck of the woods ... I'll wave at you chaps as I get arrested

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I'm likely to be there protesting against him ... that's my neck of the woods ... I'll wave at you chaps as I get arrested

If a large enough group can get it going, the best way to protest Trump's rallies is for enough people to get tickets to it and just not show up.

[JPhillips]

Step 1: Trump talks to Chinese Premier

Step: 2: Trump says U.S. will honor 1 China policy

Step 3: Chinese trademark for Trump businesses approved after multi-year delay

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Step 1: Trump talks to Chinese Premier

Step: 2: Trump says U.S. will honor 1 China policy

Step 3: Chinese trademark for Trump businesses approved after multi-year delay

Where are your Cards Against Humanity skills?

Comeon on...

Everybody!

Step 4........

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Their base is going to be angered by anything short of "and a pony, too" at this point. They've had the Presidency and Congress for almost a whole month and Obamacare STILL hasn't been repealed OMGWTFBBQ.

Put another way: are Republicans going to abandon the party in the midterms and either not vote, or vote for Democrats? Probably not. Can they spin it to be palatable to independents? Sure. If, four years from now, they can point to 'look at all the shit we got done,' are base Republicans going to care that Trump was dumped and vote for Chelsea Clinton (or whoever the hell) instead?

I still don't get what the upside is for Republicans to get rid of Trump. You're saying that there may not be any repercussions but not saying what they could possibly gain by doing it. Seems like a high risk, no reward scheme that comes from the left.