The Official NBA 2016 Offseason Thread

[murrayyyyy]

Brogdon to Milwaukee at 36 but no clue on 35... :-(

[MrBug708]

So...anyone know anything about Zubac?

[murrayyyyy]

Zagorac. A 6'9" 2/3. Know nothing about him.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

So...anyone know anything about Zubac?

Not really. I know the Serbian league isn't particularly strong, but he performed fairly well there for his age.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

So...anyone know anything about Zubac?

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Ivica-Zubac-73314/

Saw him as high as 16 today.

Strengths:
-Great size at 7-0
-Strong frame
-Above average athlete for a player his size
-Can play above the rim. Catches lob passes. Can finish impressively off two feet
-Soft, reliable hands. Catches everything
-Moves off the ball well. Knows how to present himself around the rim
-Great touch around the basket
-Shows some ability to score with back to the basket. Uses strength to back down weaker players
-Solid footwork in the low post. Can utilize some spin moves and score with hook shots
-Good feel for the game. Can find open man. Passes out of double teams.
-Active on offensive glass
-Shows some nice mobility defensively. Can cover ground

Weaknesses:
-Good athlete overall, but is not incredibly explosive
-Late bloomer who is somewhat unpolished
-Made just 59% of free throw attempts at U19s
-Not a great rim protector (1.3 per-40)
-Not a great defensive rebounder
-Lacks some experience on defense, particularly in pick and roll situations. Somewhat upright in stance

Very limited stepping outside of the paint defensively on pick and roll. Not a great athlete.

Outlook: Big, strong, competitive big man who had a phenomenal tournament despite being almost completely unknown coming in. Took advantage of injuries and absences on Croatia's roster and ended up posting the #1 PER in the tournament (33.7), scoring 27 points per-40 minutes on an outrageous 72% TS%. Will likely see solid playing time in the Adriatic League next season with Cibona, and be tracked closely by scouts to see how he fares against older players. Had his two worst games of the tournament against the US, even if he still scored a solid 24 points and pulled down 17 rebounds in 56 minutes of action.

[nol]

Anthony Davis was the last US-born player drafted first overall. Between that and the number of guys skipping the Olympics, would not be surprised to see a Team USA loss at some major tournament in the next decade or so.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Please, Lakers, draft McCaw. I know a big is needed, but damn it, I want him in purple and gold. Player I've enjoyed most since Stanback.

McCaw is a Warrior now. Your worst nightmare ;-)

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

So...anyone know anything about Zubac?

Apparently intriguing offensive upside with questionable defensive and rebounding potential.

[murrayyyyy]

Golden State paid $2.4M to Milwaukee for the No. 38, source tells @TheVertical

[nol]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Zagorac. A 6'9" 2/3. Know nothing about him.

I liked him in the late 1st. Plays for Mega Leks with Luwawu and Zubac. He broke his arm earlier the season and came back to put up some decent numbers. Seems decent/good in a lot of areas but no real calling card.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by nol

I liked him in the late 1st. Plays for Mega Leks with Luwawu and Zubac. He broke his arm earlier the season and came back to put up some decent numbers. Seems decent/good in a lot of areas but no real calling card.

Supposed Atlanta promised him the pick in the 2nd. Wonder if he will be moved.

[murrayyyyy]

Magic pick Zimmerman, the other UNLV kid

[nol]

Houston got a good one in Onuaku. I would have been less surprised to see him at 10 or 13 than Maker and Papagiannis based on how analytics rate him.

[murrayyyyy]

Hoping that Gbinijie, Payton Jr or Cousins slip down to 57. Need another guard.

[murrayyyyy]

Did Bentil grade out horribly? Figured he'd be taken by now.

[murrayyyyy]

Niang to the Pacers. Did they get a lot better today?

[Groundhog]

Maybe 6 first rounders that won't hit the court at all next season? I wonder what the record high is.

[murrayyyyy]

Bolomboy, my sleeper...

[murrayyyyy]

Wang Zhelin. I stayed up for this?

[nol]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Niang to the Pacers. Did they get a lot better today?

Any time you trade draft picks for veterans you're gonna be better today. Niang strikes me as one of those players like Kyle Anderson or T.J. Warren who will play in the summer league and absolutely torch people but will find consistent minutes hard to come by for now at least.

Cavs bought into the 2nd round to pick up Kay Felder. He was a one-man show in college who really stepped up against big-name competiton; 38 points and 9 assists in a win against Washington, 37 points and 9 assists in an overtime loss to Michigan State, and 30 points against Virginia. I compared him to Barea, but I think he could be a pretty pesky defender playing low minutes and not having to do everything on offense (he was something like top 3 in the country in assists and scoring) while in the game.

[wustin]

Marcus Paige was projected to be undrafted on a lot of draftboards. He worked his butt off at the workouts. Too bad he'll be stuck in the D-league forever.

[Groundhog]

And so ends maybe the least exciting/inspiring draft I've seen. OKC-Orlando trade was probably the sole highlight.

[Atocep]

If Boston doesn't have a trade lined up I'm not very impressed with what they did with their picks. Jaylen Brown at 3 still stuns me.

Love the OKC trade.

Ellenson seems like a great player to play alongside Drummond in Detroit.

I figured Thon Maker would go higher than most expected, but 10?

I thought Dejounte Murray in the lottery would have been a big risk, but the Spurs getting him at 29 is a great pick. All Star upside (and an out of the league in 3 years floor) is too much to pass up at that point.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Did Bentil grade out horribly? Figured he'd be taken by now.

This should be a nice pick for them. Bentil seems like a talented offensive player. I wonder if his defense didnt scare teams off.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Atocep

If Boston doesn't have a trade lined up I'm not very impressed with what they did with their picks. Jaylen Brown at 3 still stuns me.

I think Boston was going for the home run with this pick. They didnt want to settle for the known. They see the big time potential in Brown.

[Groundhog]

Yeah, Boston probably get the biggest 'meh' rating from me. They obviously tried to get teams to bite on a trade for the #3, but Jaylen Brown kinda feels to me a bit like another Brown, Kedrick Brown, from back in 2001 - a guy with a good NBA SF build who can't do much outside of run in a straight line and jump high.

One of those 'has all the physical tools' type of athletes, so maybe Stevens will be the right coach to mold him into a legit NBA starting SF, but I'd have gone with any of the guys that went 4, 5, 6, 7, or 8.

[RainMaker]

Bulls didn't give Jimmy Butler away so I guess that's a good thing.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Bulls didn't give Jimmy Butler away so I guess that's a good thing.

I am hoping the Wolves get him in a Rubio and some other players trade without giving up KAT, Wiggins, LaVine, or Dunn, lol... Wolves would probably be a playoff team next year if they did make a trade for Butler and gave up LaVine.

[Groundhog]

Semi-interesting fact: One major city in Australia has produced three #1 picks in the last 12 NBA drafts, although one (Kyrie) is pretty much a technicality.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I am hoping the Wolves get him in a Rubio and some other players trade without giving up KAT, Wiggins, LaVine, or Dunn, lol... Wolves would probably be a playoff team next year if they did make a trade for Butler and gave up LaVine.

I would not trade Butler for anything that didn't involve Wiggins.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I would not trade Butler for anything that didn't involve Wiggins.

Thats why the trade wont happen. Wolves wont give up Wiggins. They arent even willing to give up LaVine at this point. Thibs probably understands the Bulls are in blow it up mode and might just wait this one out and see if the Bulls asking price drops.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Philly takes Korkmaz. HIding the tall guard who weighs less than everyone on this message board.

To be fair, I'm guessing the average weight around here is decently high.

[Groundhog]

Going to be interesting to see what kind of season Wiggins has this year under Thibs. His athleticism is still waaaaay beyond his actual performance on the court, and KAT is good enough that if Wiggins can't be more efficient maybe you look to move him while you can still sell high on him.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Going to be interesting to see what kind of season Wiggins has this year under Thibs. His athleticism is still waaaaay beyond his actual performance on the court, and KAT is good enough that if Wiggins can't be more efficient maybe you look to move him while you can still sell high on him.

His current path looks more like Demar Derozan 2.0 rather than Pippen and the other comps that were thrown around when he was drafted.

I don't think the Cavs are losing sleep over trading him anymore.

He has so much potential that it's tough to give him up, but I think Jimmy Butler right now is probably as high as Wiggins' ceiling probably gets.

[nol]

Wiggins shot 41% on threes after the all-star break and is going from having one of the 1-2 worst coaches (okay, defintely 2nd-worst. Gotta give Byron Scott his due) in the league to one of the best. When DeMar DeRozan was 21 he was three seasons away from cracking 20 points per game; had DeMar Derozan 1.0 scored 20 points per game at that age rather than 9, people would have been saying he's on the Kobe 2.0 path because there simply isn't much precedent for players that young being able to compete at that level in the NBA. The Wolves would gladly settle for someone who's not as good as Scottie Pippen (who at age 20-21 was still playing against nobodies in the middle of Arkansas). When Jimmy Butler was 21 he was at Marquette and was 3 seasons away from being a full-time starter in the NBA and 4 seasons from being an All-Star. Not too worried.

Put another way, plenty of teams would like to have the problem of dealing with a 20-year-old inefficiently scoring 20 points per game. I know for a fact that none of those guys at that age had to worry about guarding the other team's best player either.

[jbergey22]

His body still has a lot of development to go. He is going to put on some mass which will help out his finishing, defense and rebounding. Butler has peaked physically so its hard to compare the two especially when I doubt anyone really knows how Wiggins game will end up once he physically peaks. Still learning what works. I think Derozan seems like a decent comparison but he has good post up skills so I dont think you can automatically assume he cant develop like Kobe.

KAT put on a lot of muscle mass before his 1st NBA game. Probably more than Wiggins has in 2 years of playing in the NBA.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Atocep

His current path looks more like Demar Derozan 2.0 rather than Pippen and the other comps that were thrown around when he was drafted.

I don't think the Cavs are losing sleep over trading him anymore.

He has so much potential that it's tough to give him up, but I think Jimmy Butler right now is probably as high as Wiggins' ceiling probably gets.

Probably not losing sleep over anything since they just won the Championship On the other hand Id guess theyd rather being paying Wiggins his rookie contract over paying Love his contract at this point in time for no other reason than Wiggins having a lot more trade value.

[Kodos]

Happy to see Oladipo get out of Orlando. Now I can maybe see his games on TV!

[nol]

I like what the Suns did in this draft. Obviously Bender and then moving up for Chriss: those guys could have very well both been top 4 players on their board. I'm sure giving up 22 and 28 (edit: oops, the Kings got 22 from Charlotte by trading Marco Belinelli. The Suns traded a European who won't come over for a few years and a future 2nd in addition to 28 - even better!) to move up 5 spots is not the best for average 'value' but in this draft there wasn't much difference between 22 and 52 and as the Celtics have learned, those first round picks start to lose some luster once they become actual players who can't all be on the floor at once and have to spend some time in the D-League.

From afar, it seems as though McDonough has done a pretty good job the last few years but was pressured by the owner into going all-in for Aldridge last season, which turned out to be an absolute disaster. I think there's a very natural trade to be made that sends Bledsoe to Sacramento and Cauley-Stein and some young players/picks back to Phoenix and gives the Suns a young and interesting lineup of Knight, Booker, Chriss, Bender, and Cauley-Stein. That's three frontcourt players who can potentially guard 4-5 different positions. Also looking at the Suns and Kings' rosters, you could combine them to make a playoff team with the entire rotation composed of Kentucky players.

[jbergey22]

KC Johnson: Reported last night but bears repeating: When Dunn dropped past 3, TWolves offered Rubio and No. 5 pick for Butler. Bulls said no.

Shams Charania: Vertical Sources: Chicago and Minnesota talks for Jimmy Butler broke down. Bulls wanted Zach LaVine, not Ricky Rubio. Chicago wanted Zach LaVine and the No. 5 pick, Kris Dunn, sources tell The Vertical. 17 hours ago – via Twitter ShamsCharania

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by nol

I like what the Suns did in this draft. Obviously Bender and then moving up for Chriss: those guys could have very well both been top 4 players on their board. I'm sure giving up 22 and 28 to move up 5 spots is not the best for average 'value' but in this draft there wasn't much difference between 22 and 52 and as the Celtics have learned, those first round picks start to lose some luster once they become actual players who can't all be on the floor at once and have to spend some time in the D-League.

From afar, it seems as though McDonough has done a pretty good job the last few years but was pressured by the owner into going all-in for Aldridge last season, which turned out to be an absolute disaster. I think there's a very natural trade to be made that sends Bledsoe to Sacramento and Cauley-Stein and some young players/picks back to Phoenix and gives the Suns a young and interesting lineup of Knight, Booker, Chriss, Bender, and Cauley-Stein.

Kind of a bad time for the Suns to be trying to deal Bledsoe. His value is a lot lower right now(off of 2 straight seasons with severe injuries) than if he played a couple months and got a more normal return for a player of his ability. I just read they offered Bledsoe and a lottery pick to Utah for Hayward and were turned down. Kind of tells me Bledsoe's value is very low right now compared to where it was 3 years ago. They do need to trade one of them two(Knight or Bledsoe) though.

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

KC Johnson: Reported last night but bears repeating: When Dunn dropped past 3, TWolves offered Rubio and No. 5 pick for Butler. Bulls said no.

Shams Charania: Vertical Sources: Chicago and Minnesota talks for Jimmy Butler broke down. Bulls wanted Zach LaVine, not Ricky Rubio. Chicago wanted Zach LaVine and the No. 5 pick, Kris Dunn, sources tell The Vertical. 17 hours ago – via Twitter ShamsCharania

Rubio and Dunn for Butler is a bad trade. I'm not a big Lavine fan, so he and Dunn for Butler is not a great deal better to me.

Wiggins and Dunn for Butler is an overpay for Minn, but if Thibs wants Butler that bad, pay up.

As a Bulls fan, I hate to see Butler traded. I didn't mind Rose being traded, but only because he was on such a bad contract. Under a more reasonable contract, I think he's worth holding on to.

However, it appears the writing is on the wall for the Bulls to blow up the team and start over. If they go that route, hopefully Paxson and Forman can build a competitive team over the next couple of seasons if the implosion happens.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Certainly seems like Ainge is giving up on the dream of being truly competitive this season and is going to bank on Brown and two more Brooklyn picks stacking the roster. I know a trade for a star isn't impossible, but the plan sure looks like bank developmental assets overseas and wait.

Of course that strategy will still get them to the playoffs and they aren't that far from the second best team in the East.

No, you can just only plausibly develop (and showcase) so many players. Add Jaylen Brown to Terry Rozier, RJ Hunter & Jordan Mickey (and I guess James Young still has a roster spot) and you're running out of spots for young players.

Trading for a star was plan 1A, but plan 1B is the $58m in cap space we have. I think Al Horford is a legitimate possibility, and if he signs you throw the hail mary at Durant. But even just the upgrade to Horford from Sully (and adding at least a body at backup wing in Brown) probably keeps us at #2 in the conference, with a few young players who could pop, cap space next year (Gordon Hayward), and 2 more BK picks, including almost certainly a top 10 one in what's projected to be a much deeper draft at the top. Of our own FA's I couldn't care less about Sully and am very interested to see what happens with Evan Turner. He puts a lot of things on the table, but takes a lot off. Kind of fit perfectly running an offense vs sub units and able to fill in at multiple positions vs starters, but is that worth $12m/y? Probably, but there's a good chance he'll get even more than that.

I won't pretend to love Jaylen Brown, but I hope we get the guy I fell in love with in HS that passes the eye test with flying colors, and not the one who every analytical projection system HATES. Gotta figure with that body, work ethic, and alleged intelligence he can at least develop into a player like Jae Crowder who can D up and attack recovering defenders and finish at the rim. Unlike Marcus, his shot also isn't completely broken and the form looks ok, so that's something haha.

Knew the draft & stashes and/or trades were coming, so idk why anyone was upset about that. Maybe Luwawu or Korkmaz was better than Yabusele, but who the heck knows. Zizic seems like a nice pick at 23. I like Baltic guys who are described as rim-protectors who can rebound and have a mean streak! Skal or Deyonta Davis seems like a nice gamble, but we just don't have any minutes to develop a guy like that, and I'm not 100% certain but I think I saw that guaranteed contracts this year to 16&23 would've precluded us from offering 2 max contracts this summer.

If you consider Rozier & Mickey as part if this draft class it looks a lot better. I'm driving the bus for the Terry Rozier fan club, but he's a day older than Kris Dunn, same length, quicker first step, and put up nearly identical stats his soph year at Louisville as Dunn did JR/SR year at Providence. Dunn did have a little higher FG%, but also shot sub 70% on FT's, so I'm skeptical on him actually being a good shooter. Mickey has a ceiling (much) lower than a guy like Skal due to size alone, but he's a much better player the next 2 years and is more likely to develop into a rotation player.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

quicker first step.

This just isnt true and I am fairly certain Dunn has a longer reach not to mention a better NBA body being 6 4 220. Rozier's weakness is he cant shoot inside the arc. Hes a nice combo guard but if he struggles shooting inside of 20 feet how much upside can he have? He does take care of the ball well and is a good long distance shooter.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

No, you can just only plausibly develop (and showcase) so many players. Add Jaylen Brown to Terry Rozier, RJ Hunter & Jordan Mickey (and I guess James Young still has a roster spot) and you're running out of spots for young players.

Trading for a star was plan 1A, but plan 1B is the $58m in cap space we have. I think Al Horford is a legitimate possibility, and if he signs you throw the hail mary at Durant. But even just the upgrade to Horford from Sully (and adding at least a body at backup wing in Brown) probably keeps us at #2 in the conference, with a few young players who could pop, cap space next year (Gordon Hayward), and 2 more BK picks, including almost certainly a top 10 one in what's projected to be a much deeper draft at the top. Of our own FA's I couldn't care less about Sully and am very interested to see what happens with Evan Turner. He puts a lot of things on the table, but takes a lot off. Kind of fit perfectly running an offense vs sub units and able to fill in at multiple positions vs starters, but is that worth $12m/y? Probably, but there's a good chance he'll get even more than that.

I won't pretend to love Jaylen Brown, but I hope we get the guy I fell in love with in HS that passes the eye test with flying colors, and not the one who every analytical projection system HATES. Gotta figure with that body, work ethic, and alleged intelligence he can at least develop into a player like Jae Crowder who can D up and attack recovering defenders and finish at the rim. Unlike Marcus, his shot also isn't completely broken and the form looks ok, so that's something haha.

Knew the draft & stashes and/or trades were coming, so idk why anyone was upset about that. Maybe Luwawu or Korkmaz was better than Yabusele, but who the heck knows. Zizic seems like a nice pick at 23. I like Baltic guys who are described as rim-protectors who can rebound and have a mean streak! Skal or Deyonta Davis seems like a nice gamble, but we just don't have any minutes to develop a guy like that, and I'm not 100% certain but I think I saw that guaranteed contracts this year to 16&23 would've precluded us from offering 2 max contracts this summer.

If you consider Rozier & Mickey as part if this draft class it looks a lot better. I'm driving the bus for the Terry Rozier fan club, but he's a day older than Kris Dunn, same length, quicker first step, and put up nearly identical stats his soph year at Louisville as Dunn did JR/SR year at Providence. Dunn did have a little higher FG%, but also shot sub 70% on FT's, so I'm skeptical on him actually being a good shooter. Mickey has a ceiling (much) lower than a guy like Skal due to size alone, but he's a much better player the next 2 years and is more likely to develop into a rotation player.

All I meant was that the trades didn't happen and Ainge focused on future more than present. He had eight draft picks and I'd bet no one selected makes more than a minimal impact this year. Maybe something will happen in FA, but I'd bet the team looks and performs like last year's team and they try again in summer 2017.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Please let any Hawks/Howard meeting be a mere courtesy call.
Please let any Hawks/Howard meeting be a mere courtesy call.
Please let any Hawks/Howard meeting be a mere courtesy call.

There.

I've done all I can.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Please let any Hawks/Howard meeting be a mere courtesy call.
Please let any Hawks/Howard meeting be a mere courtesy call.
Please let any Hawks/Howard meeting be a mere courtesy call.

There.

I've done all I can.

Boston Celtics EVEN
Atlanta Hawks +175
Houston Rockets +1200
Any other team +175

[Logan]

I want to see him end up in Boston solely for the Bill Simmons rationalization.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

This just isnt true and I am fairly certain Dunn has a longer reach not to mention a better NBA body being 6 4 220. Rozier's weakness is he cant shoot inside the arc. Hes a nice combo guard but if he struggles shooting inside of 20 feet how much upside can he have? He does take care of the ball well and is a good long distance shooter.

Kris Dunn's got (approximately) a 6'9 reach and 8'4 standing reach. Terry Rozier is at 6'8 & 8'3. (This came up during talk about Wade Baldwin - Smart and Rozier are 2 of like 7 NBA guards drafted recently with wingspans that much longer than their height. And not surprisingly, everyone on that list is considered a good perimeter defender.) Dunn is certainly taller and thicker, which will probably help him finish at the rim, but from watching the two I'd definitely give Rozier the quicker first step. Rozier's never going to be a good outside shooter (or a combo guard) imo, but I doubt Dunn does either. That sub-70% FT shooting every year in college is just a huge red flag to me. But again, I'm a huge Rozier fan, and instead of necessarily calling Dunn a bust I hope this means they'll both be very good. I do think that Dunn benefited a lot from the weak other PG's in this class.

Originally Posted by JPhillips

All I meant was that the trades didn't happen and Ainge focused on future more than present. He had eight draft picks and I'd bet no one selected makes more than a minimal impact this year. Maybe something will happen in FA, but I'd bet the team looks and performs like last year's team and they try again in summer 2017.

I disagree. Even though he did draft some possible Eurostashes and make a trade (as he had to), a huge theme he hinted at was "NBA-ready bodies". I think that's part of the reason he picked Jaylen Brown over Dragan Bender, and passed (multiple times) on Skal & Deyonta Davis. And yeah, I wish one of those trades worked out, but if, say, Chicago was demanding next year's Brooklyn pick in addition to Crowder, Dunn/#3 & the #16 pick I'm fine with him moving on.

And now we go to FA with all that flexibility and all of those young assets. Durant is still a very long shot (though it does feel nice to get a meeting), but I think Horford is a realistic possibility that would be a huge upgrade for us. And yes, if Durant falls through, I wouldn't be surprised to see us just signing one big, a couple mid-tier short-term FA's and saving cap space to make a play for Gordon Hayward next summer (or Durant if he does goes the 1&1 route), but I don't consider that a loss. Ainge & Wyc need to stop giving radio interviews where they talk about fireworks, but you can't blame them for not making a move without knowing what concrete offers were on the table.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Please let any Celtics/Howard meeting be a mere courtesy call.
Please let any Celtics/Howard meeting be a mere courtesy call.
Please let any Celtics/Howard meeting be a mere courtesy call.

There.

I've done all I can.

Agreed! (Though I suppose I'd take him on a 1 year deal to rehabilitate his value. Or if KD wants him as part of a package deal, though I highly doubt that.)

[nol]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

And yeah, I wish one of those trades worked out, but if, say, Chicago was demanding next year's Brooklyn pick in addition to Crowder, Dunn/#3 & the #16 pick I'm fine with him moving on.

Ainge & Wyc need to stop giving radio interviews where they talk about fireworks, but you can't blame them for not making a move without knowing what concrete offers were on the table.

These two things are related. The Celtics' MO is to float over-the-top rumors that massively overvalue their own players with the idea that it only takes one team dumb enough to believe them (Brooklyn) to make a franchise-changing trade. The only downside is that no deal gets done, and even in the worst-case scenario that none of the picks turn into players who can help a team that can't make it out of the first round, there's still a few more seasons of being a playoff team before they have to start over.