May console sales #'s

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Speaking of bad news for Sony, it looks like GT5 will be pushed back to late 08:

http://www.computerandvideogames.com....php?id=167050

They've been saying that for awhile, have they not? It was originally scheduled for Spring '08, but then they decided to add damage modeling and it was mentioned that it would be fall '08 before that came out. The developers hadn't said that publicly, but it had been rumored for a few months now. Competition in the form of Forza finally pushed them to add damage modeling. It's about time.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

They've been saying that for awhile, have they not? It was originally scheduled for Spring '08, but then they decided to add damage modeling and it was mentioned that it would be fall '08 before that came out. The developers hadn't said that publicly, but it had been rumored for a few months now. Competition in the form of Forza finally pushed them to add damage modeling. It's about time.

First I've heard of it. I always thought it was going to be late 07/early 08 and was supposed to be one of the PS3's system sellers.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

First I've heard of it. I always thought it was going to be late 07/early 08 and was supposed to be one of the PS3's system sellers.

FF and MGS are supposed to be the early 08 flag bearers in that regard. Sony can't afford for those titles to fall any further.

[spleen1015]

Deja vu all over again.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

First I've heard of it. I always thought it was going to be late 07/early 08 and was supposed to be one of the PS3's system sellers.

That's looking like Final Fantasy to me. I see nothing else on the horizon that could sell systems for the PS3.

God of War 3 could, but that's way the heck off.

Maybe my criticism of Sony was way off. I said that they were marketing a DVD player and not a gaming system and how that was a terrible decision. Maybe they realized they'd only have a few games on it worth playing for a year and a half and knew the only chance they had to sell any system was the Blu Ray.

I take it back, they aren't that smart.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

FF and MGS are supposed to be the early 08 flag bearers in that regard. Sony can't afford for those titles to fall any further.

Square has already said that April 08 is the "earliest" that FF13 will be ready and that it is possible it will be late 08.

[spleen1015]

I'll take the over on 4/08.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Square has already said that April 08 is the "earliest" that FF13 will be ready and that it is possible it will be late 08.

Yeah, a slip would not be good. That's one they really need badly.

A sleeper for this holiday season is likely Ratchet and Clank. Lots of good vibes from that one in the previews. I'm not sure it's a system seller by any means, but it's looking like it could be a great game.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Does anyone know when E3 occurs? I know it's coming up pretty quickly. MS and Sony are both supposedly tossing a lot of new info out, some which will be surprising.

[spleen1015]

July 11-13

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by TroyF

That's looking like Final Fantasy to me. I see nothing else on the horizon that could sell systems for the PS3.

God of War 3 could, but that's way the heck off.

Maybe my criticism of Sony was way off. I said that they were marketing a DVD player and not a gaming system and how that was a terrible decision. Maybe they realized they'd only have a few games on it worth playing for a year and a half and knew the only chance they had to sell any system was the Blu Ray.

I take it back, they aren't that smart.

Where did I see that only a percentage in the teens use their consoles to watch movies? It may have been here - if so, my bad.

[Eaglesfan27]

I think it was posted here, but I also saw it on G4 recently. According to a survey, only 14% of users are watching movies on their next gen consoles.

[twothree]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Where did I see that only a percentage in the teens use their consoles to watch movies? It may have been here - if so, my bad.

Probably a news article mentioning this report.

http://www.thediffusiongroup.com/The...-Uncertain.htm

[TroyF]

OK, so honestly, after reading just the last 3 pages of this thread, if you had a major bet for Sony winning this generation of the console war, would you jump out a window, beat yourself to death with your new system or watch Planet Earth on Blu Ray and cry yourself to sleep every night?

[CraigSca]

The thing is - I was a huge Sony fanboy.

I've had my PS2 for years, but Sony lost the race (for me) when NCAA came out on the 360 a full year before the PS3's. Then, when MLB 2007 - The Show came out, I was "this close" to pulling an idiotic financial move and getting a PS3 just to play it (as it's right up there with NCAA as a must-have for me). However, the price is just too high - I can't substantiate it in my head (and when it comes to irrational purchases like this, it doesn't take much to do so).

I've had the 360 for one year now and my kids play it constantly. I've had one ring of death episode (when the kids left the door closed on the bookshelf the 360 sits), turned it off, let it cool down and it was fine. I've since taken it out of the shelf and haven't had an issue.

The bottom line for me is this: I love Sony products. Everything I bought for years was Sony because I trusted their quality and continue to do so. However, the PS3 was delayed too much and then was released with a price tag that is just insane. Basically, the decision was made for me.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I think it was posted here, but I also saw it on G4 recently. According to a survey, only 14% of users are watching movies on their next gen consoles.

I'm one now. We ran out of room in the 400-disc changer, and the kids are getting old enough to mess with the remote, so all of the cool action flicks and other movies not suitable for a 4-year-old and a 2-year-old are getting yanked out and on to a shelf, and it's much easier to plop one into the 360 than into the changer.

So the kids watch their movies in the changer, and on the rare occasion my wife and I have a chance to watch a movie, we're watching on the 360.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I'm one now. We ran out of room in the 400-disc changer, and the kids are getting old enough to mess with the remote, so all of the cool action flicks and other movies not suitable for a 4-year-old and a 2-year-old are getting yanked out and on to a shelf, and it's much easier to plop one into the 360 than into the changer.

So the kids watch their movies in the changer, and on the rare occasion my wife and I have a chance to watch a movie, we're watching on the 360.

Geez. I've got a 400 disc changer and only have about 200 filled. I thought I was bad, though I did just have a kid, so that's likely to increase the movie totals.

[spleen1015]

Is there anything in the 200 range?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Is there anything in the 200 range?

They produce a similar changer for CD's that holds 300. The nice thing about the 400 DVD player is that you can also put music CD's in there. Pretty good deal for about $300-350.

[spleen1015]

A disc changer in a console would be nice.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

The thing is - I was a huge Sony fanboy.

I've had my PS2 for years, but Sony lost the race (for me) when NCAA came out on the 360 a full year before the PS3's. Then, when MLB 2007 - The Show came out, I was "this close" to pulling an idiotic financial move and getting a PS3 just to play it (as it's right up there with NCAA as a must-have for me). However, the price is just too high - I can't substantiate it in my head (and when it comes to irrational purchases like this, it doesn't take much to do so).

I've had the 360 for one year now and my kids play it constantly. I've had one ring of death episode (when the kids left the door closed on the bookshelf the 360 sits), turned it off, let it cool down and it was fine. I've since taken it out of the shelf and haven't had an issue.

The bottom line for me is this: I love Sony products. Everything I bought for years was Sony because I trusted their quality and continue to do so. However, the PS3 was delayed too much and then was released with a price tag that is just insane. Basically, the decision was made for me.

Who wasn't a Sony fanboy during hte middle of the PS2 years? Simply put, if you weren't a Sony fanboy with the PS2, you weren't a console gamer. I own a lot of Sony products, including the PSP, which is think is an underrated system.

I purchased the PS3 for a variety of reasons. And it's been sitting on the shelf. I played through Resistence. (incredible game) I played some The Show. (decent game, but it didn't hold my attention long term) Am playing SpiderMan 3 to review it (early line of thinking is BLEK) And I purchased Planet Earth on Blu Ray.

All told, the system as a whole has been less used three months than 3 INDIVIDUAL games released this year for the 360. (Crackdown, Forza, Shivering Isles) That's painful. And the thing is, it isn't slowing up.

With the FPS issue, I'll purchase all of the football games I want for the 360. Mass Effect, BioShock and Halo3? Good lord, if my 360 doesn't get the ring of death by October, I doubt it ever will.

I'm actually hoping GTAIV is better on the PS3 so I can actually play a game to death on it. I'm not holding my breath.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Geez. I've got a 400 disc changer and only have about 200 filled. I thought I was bad, though I did just have a kid, so that's likely to increase the movie totals.

Yeah, the kids eat into it FAST. As I said, they are starting to push our movies out.

As for 200 disc changers, Sony made a version that went with their VAIO Media Center PCs and was controlled by it.

Me, I want the more expensive Sony 400-disc changer. In fact, I want 3 of them, plus one of those high-end controllers. For something like $3000 you get 1200 discs online with a computer to sort and manage them and look up their details online so you don't have to enter them.

Of course, I have kids, so that ain't happenin'.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

A disc changer in a console would be nice.

Yeah, no crap.

Right now I'm looking at possibly getting the 400 disc sony upconvert DVD player, just cause it'd be the easiest way to store everything.

For those in the know, does that DVD player lock shut, just so little hands can't open it and screw up my discs?

[stevew]

dola, this model.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...uctId=11038348

Not the 800 dollar one.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Yeah, a slip would not be good. That's one they really need badly.

A sleeper for this holiday season is likely Ratchet and Clank. Lots of good vibes from that one in the previews. I'm not sure it's a system seller by any means, but it's looking like it could be a great game.

Wow, all ps3 purchasers have to talk about right now is Ratchet and Clank?

This does bum me out some as I've been a Sony fanboy for some time as well, in fact when it comes to TV's I will only buy a Sony. Too bad they won't see my $$$ for a console for a LONG time, maybe never.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by twothree

Probably a news article mentioning this report.

http://www.thediffusiongroup.com/The...-Uncertain.htm

The PS3 was not included in that study. Note the update at the bottom of this story.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/06/29/so...tching-movies/

[Eaglesfan27]

That update in which they don't reveal their source doesn't make sense considering the lead researcher specifically mentions the PS3 when talking about the study.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I'll take the over on 4/08.

No kidding.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by TroyF

All told, the system as a whole has been less used three months than 3 INDIVIDUAL games released this year for the 360. (Crackdown, Forza, Shivering Isles) That's painful. And the thing is, it isn't slowing up.

Oh, come on. I'm sending you Harry Potter for the PS3. Doesn't that make it all worth it?

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Oh, come on. I'm sending you Harry Potter for the PS3. Doesn't that make it all worth it?

Sweet. I'm sure that one is gonna be the game that turns this around for the PS3.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Sweet. I'm sure that one is gonna be the game that turns this around for the PS3.

Plus, Transformers. Harry Potter plus Transformers.

All you need is Shrek PS3, and you'll be set. Did we get it for that? I forget.

[Big Fo]

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7892

An article about Xbox360 failure rates, estimated at 30-33%. Could just be BS, basing their stats on interviewing EB workers on return rates, but everything I've heard/read does suggest there is a massive problem with the hardware.

I'm waiting on Microsoft to fix the RRoD problems or Sony to drop the PS3 to $400 so I could pick one of these systems up without feeling like a jackass. $600 is a terrible price for a game system and I'm not shelling out $400 on something that could easily die right after my warranty expires.

[Kodos]

While I avoid the Best Buy replacement deals like the plague, the 360 was made for getting the replacement package. Only I bought mine at Target...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7892

An article about Xbox360 failure rates, estimated at 30-33%. Could just be BS, basing their stats on interviewing EB workers on return rates, but everything I've heard/read does suggest there is a massive problem with the hardware.

I'm waiting on Microsoft to fix the RRoD problems or Sony to drop the PS3 to $400 so I could pick one of these systems up without feeling like a jackass. $600 is a terrible price for a game system and I'm not shelling out $400 on something that could easily die right after my warranty expires.

I'll give Microsoft a load of credit. If they manage to continue to shovel this issue under the rug without being called out on it, they have the greatest PR group in the business. How you can have a quality control issue of this magnitude on a product without getting significant negative national press for over 1 1/2 years should be a study in any college marketing class. It's solid work and I sincerly mean that.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'll give Microsoft a load of credit. If they manage to continue to shovel this issue under the rug without being called out on it, they have the greatest PR group in the business. How you can have a quality control issue of this magnitude on a product without getting significant negative national press for over 1 1/2 years should be a study in any college marketing class. It's solid work and I sincerly mean that.

I just don't buy 30%. I really don't.

As someone else said, I think MS is in a no win now. They say it isn't as high as reported and they are lying. They say nothing and they aren't dealing with the issue.

If it really is at 30%, it's a stunning failure rate. Truly stunning.

My guess is that it isn't half that. I'd go for 10-15%, which is still ridiculous on a ton of levels. But 1/3 of the systems dying? Again, I just can't believe that. We'll see how this plays out as we move forward. I could be wrong and if I am, it's a disaster for the 360 unless they can prove the problem is fixed.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

My guess is that it isn't half that. I'd go for 10-15%, which is still ridiculous on a ton of levels. But 1/3 of the systems dying? Again, I just can't believe that. We'll see how this plays out as we move forward. I could be wrong and if I am, it's a disaster for the 360 unless they can prove the problem is fixed.

I have 10 friends with a 360. 4 of them have returned a console and 2 of those people had to return the second one they received, which were refurbished units. So that's 6 failures out of 13 consoles. I don't believe that the rate is that high and the sample size is obviously quite small, but even a small sample of consoles should never reach that level of failure. Their failure rates were one of the main reasons I personally didn't pick up a 360. I'm much like the other person in that I simply can't see dropping that kind of money on a system with a failure rate even at the 15% that you suggest.

[stevew]

It might be 30%, but I'd wager half of those are due to people being idiots, dropping it, obviously not using it as intended, aka on carpeting, lugging it around everywhere in a backpack. 15% is still a huge failure rate, tho.


That's one thing I always argue about in "warranty meetings" we have at sears. If a TV breaks enough that the protection agreement on it needs to be at 35% of the cost due to possible repairs/replacement of it, you would think that all manner of State AG's would be investigating Samsung, Sony et. al. for their obviously defective products.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I have 10 friends with a 360. 4 of them have returned a console and 2 of those people had to return the second one they received, which were refurbished units. So that's 6 failures out of 13 consoles. I don't believe that the rate is that high and the sample size is obviously quite small, but even a small sample of consoles should never reach that level of failure. Their failure rates were one of the main reasons I personally didn't pick up a 360. I'm much like the other person in that I simply can't see dropping that kind of money on a system with a failure rate even at the 15% that you suggest.

While I have 4 friends in the Louisiana area with a 360 and none of them have failed. My launch 360 has only frozen when playing Madden 06 which had a bug in the scheduling and injured players. I've never had another problem with it. That would give a 0% rate. Even the article you listed isnt' scientific. I'm with Troy, I think it is probably 10-15% at the highest - which is still very bad. I can't fathom that it would be around 30%.

[sabotai]

Since we're throwing out anecdotal evidence, I know 6 people with XBox 360s, including myself, all have had them for over a year, with a grand total of zero failures.

[KWhit]

I've never had a 360 failure. So that's 0% for me as well.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

even a small sample of consoles should never reach that level of failure.

This is fallacious. In fact it is the entire reason that small sample sizes can be misleading: because they can reach that level of failure when the overall failure rate is far smaller.

[Groundhog]

The 360 I own was bought on launch day, and the only failure I have is a "dirty disc" error that would crop up sometimes when playing NBA 2K7. First the commentary would stop but the game would continue for another minute or two, then the error would pop up.

I've since moved and my 360 is now more in the open, and I'm yet to see the error again over the past couple of weeks. Outside of that, no issues what-so-ever.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I have 10 friends with a 360. 4 of them have returned a console and 2 of those people had to return the second one they received, which were refurbished units. So that's 6 failures out of 13 consoles. I don't believe that the rate is that high and the sample size is obviously quite small, but even a small sample of consoles should never reach that level of failure. Their failure rates were one of the main reasons I personally didn't pick up a 360. I'm much like the other person in that I simply can't see dropping that kind of money on a system with a failure rate even at the 15% that you suggest.

Other people have slammed you already, but I'll pitch in. A sample size of 13 is ridiculous. We are talking about over 6 million consoles in the country. I also have never had a failure and know of nobody who has. (about four friends with them)

You know what? That doesn't mean anything either. It's a ridiculous sample size to base any assumptions off of.

Again, I said above I could be wrong. I'm not disputing that I could be wrong. I don't think for a second that 1/3 of the consoles MS makes break down, but stranger things have happened and maybe I'm just lucky.

If your opinion is that it's truly that high, that's fine. We'll just agree to disagree. You don't need to throw out 13 unit sample sizes to justify yourself.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by TroyF

And Nintendo. Again, like I posted above. It's over. MS and Sony need to worry about each other at this point. Neither will catch the Wii in terms of console sales for the next 2+ years at lease. They have a chance with software, but even that is going to be a difficult road to go down. Developers are going to be spending a ton of time working on titles for the Wii with an install base that strong. It's just reality.

The one thing that has me a little worried about Nintendo on both the console and handheld front is that after early 08, there's not much on the horizon. It's not that it's a big deal since most games aren't announced more than a year in advance and we haven't hit E3 yet. However, I only see one huge franchise on the horizon for either system after Zelda for the DS and the pile of stuff due out in time for Christmas for the Wii and that's Mario Kart which I'm sure is due for the Wii next year.

If they can keep the pressure up, great, they win both platforms no matter what everyone else does. But I think Nintendo jumped out of the gate early this generation, seeing how a slow start hamstrung them on the Gamecube. Unfortunately, I'm worried that's going to leave a gap of games next year.

SI

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

The one thing that has me a little worried about Nintendo on both the console and handheld front is that after early 08, there's not much on the horizon. It's not that it's a big deal since most games aren't announced more than a year in advance and we haven't hit E3 yet. However, I only see one huge franchise on the horizon for either system after Zelda for the DS and the pile of stuff due out in time for Christmas for the Wii and that's Mario Kart which I'm sure is due for the Wii next year.

If they can keep the pressure up, great, they win both platforms no matter what everyone else does. But I think Nintendo jumped out of the gate early this generation, seeing how a slow start hamstrung them on the Gamecube. Unfortunately, I'm worried that's going to leave a gap of games next year.

SI

But don't you think that will change?

I can imagine most developers sat on their hands waiting to see what console would win -- since it seems like Nintendo won this round, I'm sure the outlook is going to change drastically.

[Fidatelo]

I've been outspoken about my disdain for the PS3, and my love for the Wii. I also believe I've said that the 360 is awesome (although I don't own one), but if not, I'll say it now: 360 is awesome.

That said, I have 4 friends with 360's, and 3 have had to get replacements. I would believe pretty much any number at this point, 30% is crazy high but possible.

That said, in a couple of years I could easily see myself buying a 360, even if this issue never is resolved. Its just a damn good system.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

That said, in a couple of years I could easily see myself buying a 360, even if this issue never is resolved. Its just a damn good system.

This is what I was thinking about earlier. Failure rates on the 360 appear to be unacceptably high, yet it still outsells the PS3 rather easily. Exacly what does this say about the PS3 as a system?

In the past I've been an impulse buyer when it came to console systems. Preordered both the PS2 and the XBox after walking into a store intending to pick up a PC game. I picked up a Wii on impulse this time around and I've strongly considered a 360 several times. Not one time has the thought of buying a PS3 entered my mind.

[MJ4H]

I think the future of the Wii will be similar to the recent past and present of the DS. There was a long absence of games for DS before someone finally figured out how to really use the new control systems in a creative and interesting way (Meteos). Then, bam. The floodgates opened. I expect similar things for the Wii. There is an obvious series of expected hits coming, but hopefully there will be the one or two surprises that really nails how to take advantage of the hardware, and then it is a whole new ballgame.

[Arles]

When Halo 3 comes out, unless the 360 catches on fire and starts attacking the gamer, those consoles will move like hotcakes (literally).

On a more serious note, I wonder if there's some "guidelines" to avoiding this issue on the 360. My friends and I that have one haven't had any issues, but we are all "short burst" players. Ie, a couple hours 2-3 times a week at most. I wonder if there were some guidelines for the people that play it a ton, maybe it could be avoided. Now, I don't have much of a sample size so take this with a ton of salt, but I wonder if there's some useage point where this behavior increases. Maybe the 8-10 guys I know were all lucky like me, or maybe we just don't play it enough to have this occur.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Arles

When Halo 3 comes out, unless the 360 catches on fire and starts attacking the gamer, those consoles will move like hotcakes (literally).

On a more serious note, I wonder if there's some "guidelines" to avoiding this issue on the 360. My friends and I that have one haven't had any issues, but we are all "short burst" players. Ie, a couple hours 2-3 times a week at most. I wonder if there were some guidelines for the people that play it a ton, maybe it could be avoided. Now, I don't have much of a sample size so take this with a ton of salt, but I wonder if there's some useage point where this behavior increases. Maybe the 8-10 guys I know were all lucky like me, or maybe we just don't play it enough to have this occur.

I think longer gaming times could definitely increase the chances of failure. Any time a console's fan works as hard as the 360, heat is a major concern. If you play for longer periods of time, that consistent heating has to be a problem at some point. With that said, the designer of the system has to take into consideration that there are going to be people that play systems for longer periods of time and design it to handle that level of gameplay. I run my PS3 24/7 and have had no issues at all. I run the Folding@home program on it.