Improvements in Madden 2010

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Sure, there's a difference. But releasing a lot of PR talking about change is one thing. Releasing a quality game that fixes the numerous problems currently existing in the game while adding new features is another thing. There's no question judging from the declining sales over the past 2-3 years that most people will be taking a wait and see approach to this release. EA can't afford another drop in numbers for a 4th straight year given their large investment in the franchise.

I'm as critical of the Madden franchise as anyone, but I do think they are going in the right direction. Maybe it won't show up completely in this version, but I do think the game will have to get better.

There was an interesting moment on The Show boards at OS. The Madden producer commented on their game and congratulated them for the success. I think they are starting to "get it" (at least I hope so). Gamers are looking for a football version of The Show, not Create-a-Ring mode.

There is not a chance in hell I'll preorder the game, but I will keep a close eye on it. If things pass the test the first couple weeks, I'll probably end up picking it up.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

So they add a flyover for championship games and Super Bowl, but not for Veteran's Day???? Wouldn't that be the one weekend that would make the most sense out of those three weekends????

Wow. You are really reaching for criticism at this point. They try to add a little something to make the last couple rounds of the playoffs special, and you complain "what about Veteran's Day"?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Wow. You are really reaching for criticism at this point. They try to add a little something to make the last couple rounds of the playoffs special, and you complain "what about Veteran's Day"?

Just seemed somewhat stupid if you're going to add it, especially when it's announced on Memorial Day Weekend. Many Chiefs fans over the past 15 or so years identify with Veteran's Day and the flyovers from the Whiteman AFB, mostly due to Derrick Thomas and the importance of that holiday for him.

It's not a criticism, as much as an oversight. Perhaps someone will bring this up as I'm sure it wouldn't be that difficult to add in.

[RainMaker]

I think they were just trying to add something unique to the championship and Super Bowl. They had been bashed in years past for having nothing special about those games.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'm as critical of the Madden franchise as anyone, but I do think they are going in the right direction. Maybe it won't show up completely in this version, but I do think the game will have to get better.

Absolutely. I'll be the first one to pick it up when/if the game starts to reach the level it should reach. It's obvious that many of the criticisms and the drops in sales are finally hitting them to the point where they have to change.

The developers have set 'The Show' as the gold standard. That's a high standard to reach, but if they do it, it will have been worth it to spend the last few years not buying the game and continuing to point out its many problems.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I think they were just trying to add something unique to the championship and Super Bowl. They had been bashed in years past for having nothing special about those games.

A good football simulation would be a great addition.

[Kodos]

Maybe they can use the flying carts for Veteran's Day.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Just seemed somewhat stupid if you're going to add it, especially when it's announced on Memorial Day Weekend. Many Chiefs fans over the past 15 or so years identify with Veteran's Day and the flyovers from the Whiteman AFB, mostly due to Derrick Thomas and the importance of that holiday for him.

It's not a criticism, as much as an oversight. Perhaps someone will bring this up as I'm sure it wouldn't be that difficult to add in.

Actually, in the OS thread about the fly over blog, Ian got feedback and states he has already added it for specific dates for specific teams including the Chiefs.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Actually, in the OS thread about the fly over blog, Ian got feedback and states he has already added it for specific dates for specific teams including the Chiefs.

Excellent. Thanks for the info.

[Eaglesfan27]

A few pertinent quotes from Ian on the subject of flyovers and how often they will be shown, as well as a quote that shows the attention to detail that makes me think this team has a different attitude than past teams. It's these types of little details that contribute to the Show being special:

IAN (stating that it will only be done for home openers, select dates, Conference Championships and Super Bowls): This is actually more where I'm leaning currently. Though accurate that there are flyovers for most all open stadiums in many games, we are going for more of a broadcast feel rather than a "you're there" feel, so if we show it all the time it will not be special at all during the big games. Networks don't often show the fly over as part of the broadcast unless it's a really big game.

IAN (responding to someone discussing how the Seahawks have the Blue Angels): Couldn't get rights to both the Thunderbirds and the Blue Angels in time. Hoping to have a bunch of them next year as well as other aircraft like stealth bombers, choppers, and the like.

[Kodos]

Don't forget about Jetpack Man for Super Bowls!

[BrianD]

I just really hope the same attention to detail goes into the on-field action. There are a number of in-game details that still need to be improved.

[RainMaker]

I hope that they add the little nuances of each stadium. NBA 2K and The Show does this well. There are certain things that we know takes place with our home team. Whether it's a chant, horn, or touchdown tradition. I'd like to see teams that have historically better home field advantages have it in the game (more offsides calls, louder crowd noise, etc).

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

There's no question judging from the declining sales over the past 2-3 years that most people will be taking a wait and see approach to this release.

I love your sweeping, inaccurate statements.

"most people will be taking a wait and see approach to this release".

Sure, you can say there's been a decline.. 5-10% a year I think. But to say that "most people will be taking a wait and see approach"... come on now..

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I just really hope the same attention to detail goes into the on-field action. There are a number of in-game details that still need to be improved.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I hope that they add the little nuances of each stadium. NBA 2K and The Show does this well. There are certain things that we know takes place with our home team. Whether it's a chant, horn, or touchdown tradition. I'd like to see teams that have historically better home field advantages have it in the game (more offsides calls, louder crowd noise, etc).

I'm far more on Brian's side than RainMaker's. But from what I'm seeing they are doing that, and that's what has me so positive (and what I think MBBF is missing). The past several years the team was trying to appease the RainMakers of the world at the expense of the Brians, but this year they are making an actual effort to bring back the Brians. THAT's the difference this year that has me optimistic.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I'm far more on Brian's side than RainMaker's. But from what I'm seeing they are doing that, and that's what has me so positive (and what I think MBBF is missing). The past several years the team was trying to appease the RainMakers of the world at the expense of the Brians, but this year they are making an actual effort to bring back the Brians. THAT's the difference this year that has me optimistic.

Don't get me wrong, gameplay is the top priority for me. I just know that their presentation has been so poor that it actually deters from the game (especially if you play games like NBA 2K and MLB The Show). I will take gameplay over presentation any day of the week, but I do think those little things add a lot to the overall enjoyment of the game.

It seems to me that they are trying to improve both which is good.

[JediKooter]

If this new Madden doesn't have Captain and Teneal doing the national anthem, I'm not buying it.

Oh and all these 'extras' worry me in thinking that they are trying to distract us from seeing what's still wrong with the game. Great, have flyovers, but, how is the game play, how is the franchise mode, stats, etc...?

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

If this new Madden doesn't have Captain and Teneal doing the national anthem, I'm not buying it.

Oh and all these 'extras' worry me in thinking that they are trying to distract us from seeing what's still wrong with the game. Great, have flyovers, but, how is the game play, how is the franchise mode, stats, etc...?

Totally agree.. lets see some actual gameplay. There is no way in hell I'm buying Madden before I read some impressions/reviews first.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Don't get me wrong, gameplay is the top priority for me. I just know that their presentation has been so poor that it actually deters from the game (especially if you play games like NBA 2K and MLB The Show). I will take gameplay over presentation any day of the week, but I do think those little things add a lot to the overall enjoyment of the game.

It seems to me that they are trying to improve both which is good.

And I'll also add that presentation improvements do add to the flavor of the game. I usually skip the pre-game comments and introduction, but I usually do let the playoff and Super Bowl pre-game videos run all the way through to see if anything special is done for those big games. Good presentation adds a lot to the immersion of the game...but gameplay issues subtract from the immersion much faster. Improving both is definitely a good thing.

[gstelmack]

Just read back in this thread for some examples of the gameplay focus. You'll find them talking far more about gameplay than about flyovers for the most part.

Yes, we still need to see if they actually execute on any of this, but it's been a far cry from the days when the flyover feature would be trumpeted as the best thing to happen to sports games EVAH!

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Just read back in this thread for some examples of the gameplay focus. You'll find them talking far more about gameplay than about flyovers for the most part.

Yes, we still need to see if they actually execute on any of this, but it's been a far cry from the days when the flyover feature would be trumpeted as the best thing to happen to sports games EVAH!

Exactly. I'm far more excited by the run blocking blog and seeing actual sealing of blocks, the pass blocking blog, or the WR/DB interaction blog, than I am by the flyovers. Of course, they have huge strides to take in gameplay, but their is actual visual evidence that they are at least starting to make those strides. Hopefully, these all add up to an actual sim experience on the field.

As far as the franchise/stat improvements, I think that is going to be revealed at E3 next week, but Donny (a lead developer on Head Coach 09) has hinted at the franchise stat improvements, draft logic improvements, and FA draft logic improvements, so I'm looking forward to seeing that.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Exactly. I'm far more excited by the run blocking blog and seeing actual sealing of blocks, the pass blocking blog, or the WR/DB interaction blog, than I am by the flyovers. Of course, they have huge strides to take in gameplay, but their is actual visual evidence that they are at least starting to make those strides. Hopefully, these all add up to an actual sim experience on the field.

As far as the franchise/stat improvements, I think that is going to be revealed at E3 next week, but Donny (a lead developer on Head Coach 09) has hinted at the franchise stat improvements, draft logic improvements, and FA draft logic improvements, so I'm looking forward to seeing that.

I haven't been following the blogs very closely, but I just watched the run blocking blog videos. There were definitely some impressive improvements there. One of my running complaints has always been that you can run past an engaged defender, but running too close always results in that defender becoming un-engaged and making the tackle. Actual sealed blocks should help that. I also like the thought of engaged blockers still flowing to the ball carrier. Seeing a guy chasing a ball carrier, getting engaged from behind, and becoming completely locked up was another frustration.

[spleen1015]

Has anyone seen any mention of importing NCAA draft classes into Madden and how that's going?

[Sun Tzu]

I remember reading that they had to assign new ratings to the guys being imported, because madden will have some ratings that NCAA doesn't have. The functionality is still there though.

[BrianD]

OK, two more comments on this topic.

The WR/DB interaction blog was also very promising. Better momentum and tracking should make a huge difference in that passing game. Defenders covering other receivers (especially in man coverage) should be slower to see the pass and should be slower to react to it. We should now be able to make a pass decision based on the animations of the cut rather than timing all of the defender movements to throw into a gap. Super-human interceptions should be down too if they work the new technology properly.

Madden fans are still an annoying bunch. Or I guess I should say Madden fanboys are annoying. After the great WR/DB interaction blog, the first response I saw asked for all of the different facemask types in the NFL as well and back braces and rib protectors. How can that be anybody's first comment?

[Kodos]

But Madden has pre-made draft classes that sound like they'll be better, aside from the fun that comes from drafting players you used in NCAA 2010.

[Kodos]

People are insane about the tiniest equipment details. Drives me bonkers.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I'm far more on Brian's side than RainMaker's. But from what I'm seeing they are doing that, and that's what has me so positive (and what I think MBBF is missing). The past several years the team was trying to appease the RainMakers of the world at the expense of the Brians, but this year they are making an actual effort to bring back the Brians. THAT's the difference this year that has me optimistic.

Oh, I'm not missing anything. In previous years, we've had videos as well. The problem is that the video being shown ends up being the one video out of ten where the DB doesn't blow coverage or the WR doesn't have superhuman skills......you get the picture. EA has kicked consumers in the balls far too often to suddenly thing they're actually listening this time. A healthy dose of skepticism with a hope for something better is the best approach. The developer has set a lofty expectation when he starts throwing around 'The Show' in the conversation.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Oh, I'm not missing anything. In previous years, we've had videos as well.

You have not had the detailed explanations of how exactly they were approaching the problem, nor have you had the volume of changes they were making. It was always something like NCAA 09's "wide open gameplay", not a fundamental change to the animation system that fixes lots of issues, or devs talking directly to the community on this scale, or the number of videos showing different effects, etc. This is a very, very, very different approach for Madden.

Yes, they could still screw the whole thing up. But this is not the same ol' same ol', and that's why there is reason to be optimistic that we may FINALLY be getting some of the gameplay overhauls this game has needed for a long time. This may finally be a next-gen football sim. And if it's not, it will probably put the final nail in the coffin for it for me. But I have hope for the first time in a long time with the franchise.

[Karlifornia]

This is great news about the fly-overs. I have a few questions, though:

1) Will there be just one flying formation, or can you choose different ones from a drop down menu in the controller select screen? I mean, I love a perfectly formed flying-V as much as anyone, but it might get old after like, the 100th time.

2)

Hoping to have a bunch of them next year as well as other aircraft like stealth bombers, choppers, and the like.

Maybe they could incorporate a tie-in with Microsoft Flight Simulator, like during online games, you'd have two players playing the football game, and then a third person could man the flyover. A fourth person could stand in as air-traffic controller.

3) The players having their hands over their hearts is a nice touch, but maybe there could be more? Maybe you could have the coaches give a "thumbs up" as the planes pass overhead? The players could also stand in formation to spell out "U.S.A." that's only visible from the jets. Then maybe you could have a quick cutaway to one of the pilots looking down at it and saying "God Bless Them. God Bless America."

4)You could have another mode where instead of just flying over, one of the jets lands at midfield, and the ghost of Pat Tillman, wearing a camoflauge Cardinals uniform, steps out of the plane and says over the PA: "Let's kick some ass, America style" and the crowd is simultaneously crying and cheering.

Get it done, "IAN".

[Sun Tzu]

I don't think the guys at EA are making a very big deal out of the plans flying over. The ones making a huge deal out of it seem to be the EA h8ers. They never said it was a huge addition to the game, they just mentioned in a blog post that they added it.

You know I've found there to be a pretty harsh double standard here from the EA haters. FOF is regarded as a pretty fun/realistic game almost accross the board, however it has several glaring issues that if they happened in Madden people would demand their money back. For example, it is common for teams to have 6 or 7 players under contract pre-training camp, then after training camp they'll go out and sign 40 rookie FA's to fill out the roster. Can you imagine what would happen if this was a common/standard occurence in Madden? MBBF would cream his pants.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

The ones making a huge deal out of it seem to be the EA h8ers.

The text messaging generation rears its ugly head.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The text messaging generation rears its ugly head.

And who makes a majority of Madden's buys?

[fantom1979]

My friends and I used to play in an 8 team franchise by passing the memory card one game at a time. The league died in 2006 due to many ingame factors.

From 2001 to 2008, I dont think one major feature was added to franchise mode.

Sometime in the 2003/2004 time frame they removed the ability to play with custom playbooks in franchise. It might be cheese, but it is fun as hell to build plays in an 8 team franchise and have the person you play against have their own plays as well.

The passing cone.... sigh

in all madden mode, the computer didnt get smarter, it just cheated more. The players become superhuman. I have a video of a linebacker blitzing my quarterback, i threw to my wide receiver who was running a 10 yard in. As soon as I threw the ball, the linebacker (who was 2 yards behind the line of scrimmage), turned around, ran back 10 yards, jumped up and intercepted the ball.


I seriously doubt that the eight of us will be buying this year (for the third straight year), unless the improvements in the game are just stunning.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

And who makes a majority of Madden's buys?

Agreed, but that's not the issue here. Certain people are going to buy the game regardless. That's not who EA is targeting with this latest PR push. The falling level of quality and falling sales are the issue for EA, which has made this latest 'change' necessary. As brassmonkey correctly states, the quality of this version from a gameplay standpoint will ultimately decide if this version reverses the trend of recent years. If we have the same issues in the first week as we have in the last 3-4 years, they're going to sell less units yet again this year.

[Sun Tzu]

Didn't we make a thread for MBBF to post his EA gripes in?

Does anybody else here not care to hear his $.02 on every single update that is posted on here?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

Didn't we make a thread for MBBF to post his EA gripes in?

Does anybody else here not care to hear his $.02 on every single update that is posted on here?

You silenced me once before (or at least you said you did only to find out you didn't). Feel free to do so again.

[Sun Tzu]

When you spend your days bitching and trying to hijack any thread that mentions EA or Madden, it gets old. This thread has become half the people talking about changes in the game, and the other half telling you to get a life. This page alone has 39 posts, of which 8 of them are listed as...

"Mizzou B-ball fan

This message is hidden because Mizzou B-ball fan is on your ignore list."

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

When you spend your days bitching and trying to hijack any thread that mentions EA or Madden, it gets old. This thread has become half the people talking about changes in the game, and the other half telling you to get a life. This page alone has 39 posts, of which 8 of them are listed as...

"Mizzou B-ball fan

This message is hidden because Mizzou B-ball fan is on your ignore list."

Thank God I'm on his ignore list now. We can get back to talking about the game and the changes again.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Thank God I'm on his ignore list now. We can get back to talking about the game and the changes again.

Did you eat lead paint as a child?

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

Did you eat lead paint as a child?

You're the one with the thick candy shell...shut up Richard...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

Did you eat lead paint as a child?

Why, you need more?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by fantom1979

My friends and I used to play in an 8 team franchise by passing the memory card one game at a time. The league died in 2006 due to many ingame factors.

From 2001 to 2008, I dont think one major feature was added to franchise mode.

Sometime in the 2003/2004 time frame they removed the ability to play with custom playbooks in franchise. It might be cheese, but it is fun as hell to build plays in an 8 team franchise and have the person you play against have their own plays as well.

The passing cone.... sigh

in all madden mode, the computer didnt get smarter, it just cheated more. The players become superhuman. I have a video of a linebacker blitzing my quarterback, i threw to my wide receiver who was running a 10 yard in. As soon as I threw the ball, the linebacker (who was 2 yards behind the line of scrimmage), turned around, ran back 10 yards, jumped up and intercepted the ball.


I seriously doubt that the eight of us will be buying this year (for the third straight year), unless the improvements in the game are just stunning.

That brings back memories. Back in 2002 when I was in college, my roommates and I had a 5 team Madden league going. We actually had a TV dedicated to Madden and got through seasons surprisingly fast. We were all in the AFC so the playoffs were a ton of fun.

The franchise mode was pretty good too. It had some minor issues with depth charts (favored young players a little too much) but ultimately was somewhat competitive. I don't know what happened to that mode but I think if it had been tweaked a little, it would be near perfect.

[Chubby]

So I'm assuming we're currently in the "OMG MADDEN FUCKING ROOLZ!!!!!!!!!" phase.

Wake me when there's actually good feedback from people with the game, you know, something that hasn't happened in probably a decade...

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Chubby

So I'm assuming we're currently in the "OMG MADDEN FUCKING ROOLZ!!!!!!!!!" phase.

Wake me when there's actually good feedback from people with the game, you know, something that hasn't happened in probably a decade...

Yeah. I'm finding it difficult to NOT be encouraged by all the news and additions to the next Madden, but it's like the hamster and food pellet in that Simpsons episode... How many times do you have to get buzzed before you learn to fear the pellet?

With all the new additions, I have no doubt that at least ONE of them is going to be incredibly unbalancing.

[ColtCrazy]

I'm firmly entrenched in the hopeful category. I don't play 09 anymore and will probably sell it..even though I've got 7 years of draft files from NCAA. It's just not as fun a game as NCAA is this year, and I'm a much bigger NFL fan.

I hope Madden is good. I need a good Madden game.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Yeah. I'm finding it difficult to NOT be encouraged by all the news and additions to the next Madden, but it's like the hamster and food pellet in that Simpsons episode... How many times do you have to get buzzed before you learn to fear the pellet?

Last year for me. This year I'm cautiously optimistic for the reasons I've stated above.

[wade moore]

I'll hold off, but really because I've started to like NCAA so much. I haven't gotten Madden in 3 or 4 years. Lately the NCAA gaming experience has appealed to me more.

[RainMaker]

I'm optimistic the game will have improved. I'm still not dumb enough to get suckered into preordering this game though.

[AgustusM]

To me the source of my optimism is the complete shift in the way that EA is interacting with their users.

I have really enjoyed the blogs and podcasts and found the fact that they are admitting some of the games flaws refreshing. The show hosts are overwhelming fanboys, but the designers that have been on have been really open and honest.

hxxp://insideblog.easports.com/

hxxp://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=297391075


Last year I bought the game, only because I wanted Head Coach and played the hell out of head coach, but for the first time ever didn't play a single full game of Madden. I still prefer Head Coach since I prefer coach mode, but this year with no head coach I am sure I will give Madden a go.