2009 College Football Week 4 Discussion

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Oh Swaggs, while you're here, Bieline had Michael Gilcrest, the consensus 2011 #1 hoops player, on campus. Coach B is flat out getting it done recruiting these days, though obviously I don't expect MG at all, it's just amazing he got a 3 day visit from a kid like that.

So I have to ask, what was the story with him at WVU? Did he just find diamonds in the rough and not bother with bigger names or what?

Hard to judge his recruiting while he was here, because he was only around five years and had a huge first class and last class (both of which turned out pretty well, although the last one had a lot of attrition when Huggins arrived).

His first class was a hodge podge of guys he essentially recruited to Richmond, but brought to WVU when he got the job, + Pittsnogle (who was already committed, an in-state guy, and a 4-star recruit). Pittsnogle was really the only legit recruit in the group, which included his son, an unheard of German import, and a couple other multi-year contributors. He rode those guys to an E8 and S16 and generally only targeted ~3-star guys, which we got, but he seemed to have an unusual number of transfers, including some of the higher profile guys he brought in (Tyler Relph was a 4-star, NY state player of the year who only lasted a year) and seemingly all of the big men he recruited either failed to qualify or transferred out. He also used a number of openings to bring in transfers (I can think of 4 off the top of my head, w/ Mike Gansey being the best of the bunch) with mixed results.

Towards the end of his time here, he received a good bit of criticism for failing to make any effort at OJ Mayo, Pattrick Patterson, Billy Walker, and another perimeter guy I cannot remember who were oddly all from or lived in WV (which is odd, we maybe get 1 or 2 D1 in-state guys ever few years. Mayo would have been a longshot, but Walker and especially Patterson were considered within the realm of possibility, but Beilein didn't seem interested. Most people think that he felt that he would never be able get big-time, national talent to WVU and that is essentially the feeling that most WVU fans have of him: that he didn't feel like he could bring studs to WVU, so he didn't bother with him.

My overall take on him is that he will probably have 3-4 very good years at Michigan and then the other B10 coaches will catch on to his offense and the 1-3-1 and it will then depend on what type of legit talent you have as to whether or not things will continue to improve from there or not.

[Big Fo]

After a rough day with the injured foot and terrible pass blocking Claussen was money on that last drive.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Since he is now a 4th year starter, there has been plenty of time to form the correct opinion on the guy. Nothing that you saw today should have impacted this in the least.



Nah, that is not accurate. He was a horror show as a freshman, and improved steadily through his sophomore year. The OSU game (upset in Columbus that for all intents sent them to the Rose Bowl) was the apex of that development, although many Illini fans were drooling after the deep passing display trying to come back against Mizzou last year in the opener.

He is a miserable QB for a guy that is a four year starter. He just stares through his receivers, has multiple patterns that he just cannot throw, and gets rattled over the course of games. He gets worse from quarter to quarter and presses like crazy when his defense and WRs let him down.



The idea of being chastised by a Michigan fan about buying players is pretty laughable.

My bad -- I didn't know whether he was a senior this season or not and had forgotten about his first year.

Kind of a shame that the staff, having a pretty well known quantity at QB for the past couple of years, continues to have him run plays/patterns he cannot execute well.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Nice to see a killer instinct from this team finally.

Isn't this par for the course, after the obligatory unexplainable loss?

[bhlloy]

Apparently not as they have been completely shite in the second quarter. Barkley is the only difference between this week and last week and he's been hit and miss still.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Apparently not as they have been completely shite in the second quarter. Barkley is the only difference between this week and last week and he's been hit and miss still.

I don't see how you can say he was "hit and miss." He was 8 of 12 for 146 yards and 2 TD's and 2 of those incompletions were due to drops by his receivers. Barkley was great that first half. The defense was shit in the 2nd quarter and let WSU keep the ball for 8 minutes. Penalties also killed a few drives for USC and were ridiculous in the first half.

[bhlloy]

Should have been more specific, he missed two easy throws in the second quarter. But yeah, overall "hit and miss" is harsh, he's been playing well.

[RedKingGold]

Oh Penn State.

[tarcone]

Iowas defense is lights out

[Galaxy]

Great game with Houston-Texas Tech. Is Houston for real?

[Galaxy]

Why are the fans rushing the field against an unranked 2-1 team (I know it's a BCS team, but still)?

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Why are the fans rushing the field against an unranked 2-1 team (I know it's a BCS team, but still)?

Eh, it's a mixture of beating Ok. State and then now at home beating Texas Tech now in what was their biggest home win in a long, long time. They're going to be a BCS darkhorse if they take care of C-USA business.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Eh, it's a mixture of beating Ok. State and then now at home beating Texas Tech now in what was their biggest home win in a long, long time. They're going to be a BCS darkhorse if they take care of C-USA business.

Good point. I believe they got Mississippi State left to play as well. With Boise State, TCU, and UH, it could get very interesting.

[Eaglesfan27]

Corp gets a chance to start redeeming himself in the 4th quarter and promptly fumbles the ball away. I'm disappointed in how USC has played from the 2nd quarter on.

[RainMaker]

With the loses today and looking ahead at the schedules, this is shaping up like a year that could potentially see a non-BCS team in line for a National Championship game.

Boise State should be at #5 in the next poll. They have one tough game left at Tulsa. Their win against Oregon is also looking to be a rather strong win. LSU, Alabama, and Florida will be ahead of them but will likely beat up on each other in the SEC. Lets say Florida runs the table, Boise State would only need Texas to falter at some point.

[Izulde]

*giggle*

[bhlloy]

A win is a win, but aside from Barkley, Williams and maybe Brice Butler we were shit again on offense.

[Big Fo]

What is the likelihood of a one-loss Florida/Bama/Texas being ahead of an undefeated Boise St. in the BCS?

[bhlloy]

I don't know but either way it will be absolutely hilarious to watch. If they do make it in against either a one loss Texas or SEC team, the outrage will go on for weeks. And if they don't, it might be even worse from the neutrals. Don't screw this up Boise...

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I don't know but either way it will be absolutely hilarious to watch. If they do make it in against either a one loss Texas or SEC team, the outrage will go on for weeks. And if they don't, it might be even worse from the neutrals. Don't screw this up Boise...

That's true. No team I root for will be going to the national championship game so I might as well hope for some outrage, maybe if enough people are upset about what happens there will be a playoff someday. IIRC the current system is locked in for a few more years though.

[Lathum]

USC isn't as good as we thought they were. Looks like the PAC 10 is wide open.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

What is the likelihood of a one-loss Florida/Bama/Texas being ahead of an undefeated Boise St. in the BCS?

I think once the computers and SOS gets factored in that at least 6 teams with 1 loss would get into the National Championship Game ahead of Boise St. BCS is going to be a clusterfuck this year if 2 power house teams don't go undefeated.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I think once the computers and SOS gets factored in that at least 6 teams with 1 loss would get into the National Championship Game ahead of Boise St. BCS is going to be a clusterfuck this year if 2 power house teams don't go undefeated.

It'll be interesting. We could have a situation where Boise State ranks #2 in both polls but falls farther down in the BCS. This is the highest I can remember a non-BCS school ever being ranked this early, so it'll be interesting to see if voters will continue to move them up as other schools lose in front of them.

One twist is that it seems like voters in the AP poll have gotten sick and tired of the BCS system. Last year Utah received 16 first place votes. If it looks close, I wonder if we'll see a handful of writers putting Boise on top just so they can get in and mess up the system. A lot may also depend on how well Oregon finishes up. They've looked real strong lately and with USC looking bad, lets say they are able to win out in the Pac-10. That gives Boise State a huge quality win for the computers to digest.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

As a fellow Mizzou fan, I think your crazy if you really believe this. Nebraska should be favored, and beating them would be a great accomplishment in my eyes. Losing would hardly be a disaster, and they are better then just an average team.

Im not sure if you have Mizzou too high in your mind, or Nebraska too low, but as a fellow mizzou lover im telling you your shooting a little too high too fast with these lads.

I agree.. Nebraska lost by 1 point to VT.. IN VIRGINIA! We are just damn lucky the Nevada running back fumbled the ball because they were just about to tie the game up.

I would be ecstatic if we beat Nebraska and were are lucky they are coming to Columbia - that to me, makes the game just about even.

Gabbert has a long way to go...

[Karlifornia]

Stanford stomped UW at home. I'm surprised by the final score, but I shouldn't be. UW is not a very good team. They're what Stanford was two years ago: A team recovering from an absolute disaster and looking good sometimes, but getting flat out abused sometimes.

Stanford/UCLA will be big next week. The winner has a Holiday Bowl invitation within it's sights. It's too early to say either team has a shot at anything more. Should be a good one that nobody besides Bug, Chief, and myself care about.

[mauchow]

Badgers looked tough on offense for once.

Minus the last five minutes of the game, the Badgers dominated that game through and through. Woot!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Gabbert has a long way to go...

It's an interesting issue when a sophomore QB in his first road start who throws for 400+ yards has a 'long way to go'. The majority of BCS teams would love to have that 'problem'. He's the best QB in Division I (QB rating) in the second half. He's been a slow starter at times this season, but he's been as good as they come in the clutch.

I fully expect Mizzou to beat Nebraska by at least 10 points.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

It's an interesting issue when a sophomore QB in his first road start who throws for 400+ yards has a 'long way to go'. The majority of BCS teams would love to have that 'problem'. He's the best QB in Division I (QB rating) in the second half. He's been a slow starter at times this season, but he's been as good as they come in the clutch.

I fully expect Mizzou to beat Nebraska by at least 10 points.

I love the kid, he's going to be really good but... who has he played against yet? He missed a few long passes to open receivers again Friday against Nevada. I'm being picky.. but this game against Nebraska should tell me a lot about Gabby.

[Tigercat]

LSU ranked #4 in the coaches poll, and may end up #4 in the AP. Which will make this LSU team the most out of sync top 4 team I have ever seen in October+ college football.

LSU was outgained by both Washington and Mississippi state by ~150 yards, and in every game LSU has played we have looked worse in the trenches than the other team. (Including against a ULL team that Nebraska spanked 55-0.)

Just stunning that such a team is #4 in the nation. Although I suppose if we win, even if we do it ugly, on the road against UGA, we would have earned that ranking a bit more.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I love the kid, he's going to be really good but... who has he played against yet? He missed a few long passes to open receivers again Friday against Nevada. I'm being picky.. but this game against Nebraska should tell me a lot about Gabby.

I don't disagree, but I was the one saying that it was far too early to pass judgment on players like Gabbert, Mallett, and Jacoby. I don't think there any question that this past week's results proved that to be accurate.

[MJ4H]

Thoughts on yesterday's Bama-Arkansas game. Watched it at a friend's house. I have to stop doing that, I act like a buffoon during televised games. I prefer to watch them either in person or locked in a room by myself .

Defensively, still gave up a ton of yards, but looked less disorganized this week and more like they had an idea of what was going on. Less overmatched. Still the defense is going to have to improve a ton before we are competitive with good teams. I'm on the fire Willy bandwagon at this point. He isn't getting it done. Our first choice, Ellis Johnson, who left after like a month on the job before last season, would've been light years better than Willy.

Offensively, I don't think I've seen a Razorback team shoot themselves in the foot more in my entire life. Penalties and dropped balls over and over lead to drives stalling and ending over and over. I actually give the credit for this to Bama's defense. I'm pretty sure Saban's whole plan was just to do everything to confuse the young, inexperienced offense and disrupt the precision required in a lot of the patterns and the timing the offense requires, basically at every opportunity. I think this rattled them and led to the drops and mental mistakes on penalties. Excellent gameplan, expertly executed. Props to Bama.

Mallett looked out of synch on more passes this week than last week, but most of his problems stemmed from 1) receivers dropping a TON of passes and 2) being put into bad position (3rd and long REPEATEDLY) by penalties. Pass rush got to him and hurried him quite a bit, too, but I think 1 and 2 were by far the difference for him.

Extremely disappointed with the drops from the receivers. There was an absurd number of them. Hopefully that kind of performance doesn't repeat and we can handle the disruptions better. The defense will likely improve little by little this season, and if the offense doesn't lay an egg like that every week, it should be good enough to just outscore most of the average to weak teams on the schedule. The strong teams are going to eat us alive, though.

Based on what I hear from others as well as what is patently obvious on the field, Willy's time as DC is about to end.

[Izulde]

Good. We need to fire his ass like yesterday.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

Stanford stomped UW at home. I'm surprised by the final score, but I shouldn't be. UW is not a very good team. They're what Stanford was two years ago: A team recovering from an absolute disaster and looking good sometimes, but getting flat out abused sometimes.

Stanford/UCLA will be big next week. The winner has a Holiday Bowl invitation within it's sights. It's too early to say either team has a shot at anything more. Should be a good one that nobody besides Bug, Chief, and myself care about.

Next week is going to be a very interesting game.

Some UCLA fans on the boards I go to are calling it a likely win for us, but I think that's a bunch of stupidity mixed in with bruin-colored optimism. It's going to be a tough, tough game, and if I had to make my straight up pick, it would Stanford easy.

One thing Stanford will have to do--throw the ball better (and that won't be easy either). Facing UCLA's D isn't quite like facing Washington's D, and as big a load as Gerhart is, he's going to be facing a nasty defense that might be the best in the Pac 10, and they'll be stacking the box and challenging Luck to prove he can throw the ball.

On offense, it could be brutal for UCLA. I'm not sure if Stanford's D is much good (I have heard they are a bit of a mixed bag), but they don't have to be great to beat an offense that is struggling to generate consistency and yards, and which is featuring Kevin Craft right now under center. Craft made some decent plays against K-State, but it was K-State, and Craft also looked exactly like the guy last year at times who was just so inept and lost.

Craft did lead the Bruins to victory against you guys last year, but that was at home. This will be in Palo Alto, and road games are tough in this conference.

I think Stanford's going to win a slugfest that ends up something like 17-14 or such and such.

[MrBug708]

Pete Carroll was sold a bill of goods in Jeremy Bates. But then again, it never was Norm Chow's offense but the "USC offense"

[Eaglesfan27]

Norm Chow has done wonders with the offense at UCLA.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Norm Chow has done wonders with the offense at UCLA.

Things are bad at USC when SC fans are blasting Norm Chow! I did love the boos raining down on the team in the 4th...

But he's trying to fix the "Jeremy Bates style" offense that was in place for 5 years

[Chief Rum]

Taking out the rival sniping, both comments are somewhat true.

Carroll should have paid more attention to what Dorrell was like when picking an O-coordinator, because Dorrell came from the same "school of thought" as Bates. And Carroll needs to start learning from the Chow experience and bring someone in on that side of the ball who IS a threat to him. Bringing in yes men so Carroll doesn't have to be concerned about the OC getting all the credit is, in the end, really hurting his program.

As a UCLA fan, I am massively disappointed in the lack of progress seen in the UCLA offense. The product looks better, and the line is clearly better, but an offense derives most of its quality and success from the QB position, and at that spot--the spot where Chow is supposed to be a guru--UCLA has been extraordinarily awful. A good reason for this is that Craft is just, flat, not a good QB, and doesn't seem on his way to becoming one. They have to know this, and yet, UCLA still starts him with Prince out. That's a concern, because it tells me they have either developmental problems and recruit scouting problems, and neither is good for a program.

[Chief Rum]

"Both comments" being the two above Bug's last--he did not have that in there when I started my post.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Things are bad at USC when SC fans are blasting Norm Chow! I did love the boos raining down on the team in the 4th...

But he's trying to fix the "Jeremy Bates style" offense that was in place for 5 years

Just pointing out that Norm Chow has hardly shown himself to be an offensive genius at UCLA. His offenses there have been among the worst in the nation. 108th in total offense so far this year.

Meanwhile, despite the turnovers, USC's offense is 1st in the conference in total yards. USC just needs to eliminate the turnovers and penalties.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Just pointing out that Norm Chow has hardly shown himself to be an offensive genius at UCLA. His offenses there have been among the worst in the nation. 108th in total offense so far this year.

Meanwhile, despite the turnovers, USC's offense is 1st in the conference in total yards. USC just needs to eliminate the turnovers and penalties.

He wasn't handed the top QB out of HS either in his tenure at UCLA. He was handed Kevin Craft

[molson]

Boise State cracks the top 5 in both polls.

The WAC is down and the Broncos schedule is even worse than normal (though the Oregon win is looking better), but if they run the table, which they should, and 3 (or all) of the 4 in front of them drop a game - they could easily end up in the BCS title game.

Not saying they deserve it, but that's just kind of how the human polls work. Nobody in the top 4 is going to stay in front of Boise St. if they lose a game. And its pretty rare to be passed in the human polls by someone if you don't lose a game.

It might shape up to be one of those nightmare scenarios the playoff-proponents want to see.

[dawgfan]

Stanford brings the UW back to reality. Clearly both lines need a lot of work, and until new recruits arrive the staff is going to have to figure out ways to minimize their weakness in the trenches.

That said, the UW was in this game going into the 4th quarter, but an off game by Locker and an uninspired offense in general let them down.

Give major credit to Harbaugh - he's transformed Stanford into arguably the toughest team in the Pac-10, and with the way he's been recruiting down there, the rest of the conference should be on alert - the Cardinal could be a real force in the next few years, and I'll be shocked if this year's team isn't bowling.

Back to the drawing board for the UW. They clearly need to play with intensity and smarts to win games; when they make careless mistakes and play sloppy on defense, they don't have nearly enough talent to win. I still think every game left on their schedule is a game they can win, and every team they play is capable of beating them.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Looks like a couple of the games in the Big 12 just got a little easier. Baylor lost their star QB to a season ending injury over the weekend. That really hurts them.

Also, Nebraska lost one of their starting senior safeties (Themarse) to what is likely a season-ending knee injury (may be back for bowl game). They also have another senior safety (Asante) who suffered an ankle injury and will not be 100% for the Mizzou game. That leaves one senior and two redshirt freshmen to play safety for the Huskers.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

He wasn't handed the top QB out of HS either in his tenure at UCLA. He was handed Kevin Craft

Ill trade you a Danny Sullivan for your Kevin Craft

[Cuckoo]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Looks like a couple of the games in the Big 12 just got a little easier. Baylor lost their star QB to a season ending injury over the weekend. That really hurts them.

Really, really too bad for Baylor. They were making huge strides and were on their way to having a very nice year. But Griffin was key to almost all of that.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Ill trade you a Danny Sullivan for your Kevin Craft

Done!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

Really, really too bad for Baylor. They were making huge strides and were on their way to having a very nice year. But Griffin was key to almost all of that.

Griffin reminds me a lot of what Mizzou was when we had Brad Smith. If he would have had a season-ending injury at any point, MU would have been all but dead in the water for that season. Unfortunately, an athletic QB like that is going to take more hits and be more likely to get injured. That's the risk you take.

[Dr. Sak]

Find the obscene sign in this screen shot

[gstelmack]

That's easy. It's obscene that ESPN felt the need to put that huge Kingsford charcoal logo up blocking a huge chunk of the screen.

Oh, wait, you mean THAT obscene sign...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Ah, to be stupid and in college.