It's Gone! 2004-2006 NHL Offseason and Lockout Thread

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

I would guess Gord Kluzak.

Incorrect.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by bbor

Dola



After he gets out of jail?

he's in jail?

[bbor]

Wendell Clark

[bbor]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

he's in jail?

Not yet but he was charged with assult days before the draft....beat up some kid at a party.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by bbor

Wendell Clark

Bingo. Clark was primarily a defenceman in his junior days.

(P.S. "Wendell"? What kind of Leaf fan can't spell his freaking name?)

[sachmo71]

Scouting Report: Is considered one of the best defensive defensemen available in the 2004 NHL Entry Draft. Led all Giants defensemen with 192 penalty minutes, and is never shy about dropping the gloves in order to protect teammates. Appeared in the 2004 Home Hardware CHL Top Prospects Game in London, Ontario. Has already appeared in 139 regular-season games in the WHL--all with Vancouver--and another 15 in the postseason. Might be one of the most NHL-ready prospects available, among all 2004 draft-eligible players. His offensive upside is extremely limited, but his bread-and-butter asset is the ability to stay at home and intimidate opposing forwards.

Impact: The Stars added Shawn Belle in a trade with St. Louis before the draft, but still lacked defensive depth overall. Enter Fistric, who's a no-nonsense defensive defenseman. Clearly, he's a future stay-at-home rearguard for a team expected to let Richard Matvichuk go via free agency. Since the Stars traded down twice, Fistric was obviously the player they wanted all along.

Bye, bye, Matty. Too bad Fistric won't have his experience.

[bbor]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Bingo. Clark was primarily a defenceman in his junior days.

(P.S. "Wendell"? What kind of Leaf fan can't spell his freaking name?)

Well...i usually call him Wendy

[bbor]

Sach...If the Stars are thin on D...why let Matvichuk go?

[bbor]

Someone wake up JFJ...i think he fell asleep waiting for the 90th

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by bbor

Not yet but he was charged with assult days before the draft....beat up some kid at a party.

he sounds definitely too tough for the Avs.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by bbor

Sach...If the Stars are thin on D...why let Matvichuk go?

He's had a couple of pretty bad years. I don't think they trust him much anymore, and for his price they don't seem to think he's worth it. If he has a stalwart d-man next to him, he'll be a bargin. In Colorado with Blake, or Detroit with Hatcher, well be wishing her was still here. But, I'm used to it. Can't keep the team together forever.

[bbor]

How much does he want?

[sachmo71]

Don't know yet. Probably not much more than 1.5, but they must think that's too much. Maybe they'll wait and see what sort of nibbles he's getting.

[bbor]

Sounds like he may be a good partner for Ken klee

[Maple Leafs]

Darft Dodger, any word on the Adam Foote front? Word is he may be headed to the Leafs.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Cards4ever

Blake Wheeler will probably be playing in the USHL next year and then the U of Minnesota the year after, he has a huge upside, you don't find guys with that size with the skating and stickhandling skills he has. This kid was one of the highest sought after recruits in college hockey. From what Gretzky is doing, looks like he is following the NJ model and taking college players, he has Taffe, Westrum, Ballard and still in school he has Matt Jones from UND.

Chubby, Buffalo's problem is signing the picks they draft, they haven't talked to last years pick Vanek at all and just recently signed there 02 pick or they would have lost him. Stafford is good player, lots of grit and isn't afraid to take punishment to get to the net.

The 1st problem is they suck ass at drafting in general. They need more young defensemen more than yet another winger to go along with the glut of forwards in the minors.

They haven't signed Vanek because he wanted to stay at Minnesota last year and why sign him yet with the CBA clusterfuck going on? He's better off spending his junior year at Minnesota than in the AHL with a lockout going on IMO.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

He's had a couple of pretty bad years. I don't think they trust him much anymore, and for his price they don't seem to think he's worth it. If he has a stalwart d-man next to him, he'll be a bargin. In Colorado with Blake, or Detroit with Hatcher, well be wishing her was still here. But, I'm used to it. Can't keep the team together forever.

I don't really see him going to Colorado. They've got several guys similar to him in style (Foote, Skraskins, Vannanen) - defensive guys without a lot of offensive punch. If the Avs need anything on the blueline, it's more scoring punch...like, oh, I don't know, a Derek Morris type. Blake and Liles are both capable, but neither one could hit the net in the playoffs (granted, Blake was hurt in the 2nd half, derailing his Norris bid, but it was still a pretty dramatic dropoff).

the Avs need forwards. Selanne, Kariya & Nikolishin are all gone, and Forsberg of course is possibly gone too. Not a ton of talent on the horizon either...

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Darft Dodger, any word on the Adam Foote front? Word is he may be headed to the Leafs.

no, but being about 2,000 miles away from Denver, I don't hear a lot of those rumors. Wouldn't surprise me though (see above post).

[Draft Dodger]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1829596
looks like the proposed rule changes (some of them quite quirky) are going on the shelf.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Karim

4. Who is the first American-born player selected (2 points)

I'll go out on a limb and say not too many people got this one right.

[Draft Dodger]

Bonk traded to the Canadiens

[Karim]

Originally Posted by Cards4ever

Chucko goes to Calgary!

I love all of these future Gophers going high in the draft!

You'll have to give me updates once he starts playing in Minnesota.

[Karim]

Originally Posted by bbor

Sounds like he may be a good partner for Ken klee

No doubt. A bargain at $2.5 million.

[Karim]

Three way trade that brings Bonk to Montreal. I'm surprised as I didn't think Bonk was a Gainey type of player.

As per usual, some Flames fans are pissed that the Flames haven't gone for "obvious skill" with their first pick. Sutter obviously has a plan and since Button became head scout we've done fairly well so I'm not about to question players I've never seen play.

The real surprise is Oilers taking Dubnyk over Schwartz. It will be interesting to see what happens in the future.

[Karim]

Franchise values dropping...
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...NStory/Sports/

Just say no... to a luxury tax...
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...NStory/Sports/

[Karim]

Wow. Five posts in a row... Quintuple dola?

[Cards4ever]

Originally Posted by Chubby

The 1st problem is they suck ass at drafting in general. They need more young defensemen more than yet another winger to go along with the glut of forwards in the minors.

They haven't signed Vanek because he wanted to stay at Minnesota last year and why sign him yet with the CBA clusterfuck going on? He's better off spending his junior year at Minnesota than in the AHL with a lockout going on IMO.

Sorry Chub, that is not the story, Vanek would have left if the $ were right, Buffalo has a history of doing that(ie, they are cheap).

The reason for signing him? Would you rather have him in the AHL ready to go if and when there is a settlement, or playing in Minnesota?

Another year in College was a good decision, he defensively lacked the skills to play in the pros, and this gave him another year to also grow and mature. Offensively this kid makes all the moves, he's electric, excellent move to the net, exceptional passing skills, skates great and has size.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Cards4ever

Sorry Chub, that is not the story, Vanek would have left if the $ were right, Buffalo has a history of doing that(ie, they are cheap).

The reason for signing him? Would you rather have him in the AHL ready to go if and when there is a settlement, or playing in Minnesota?

Another year in College was a good decision, he defensively lacked the skills to play in the pros, and this gave him another year to also grow and mature. Offensively this kid makes all the moves, he's electric, excellent move to the net, exceptional passing skills, skates great and has size.

If you've bothered to read any articles on ESPN.com or The Buffalo News you'd know they haven't even offered A contract. The last articles I saw were talking about how they were "talking" but Vanek was quoted as not being offered a contract.

I think they would rather have him in Minnesota much like they had Miller stay at Michigan St.

He also plays against college kids, remember that. I'm not saying he won't be a stud, I hope he is.

[Cards4ever]

Originally Posted by Chubby

If you've bothered to read any articles on ESPN.com or The Buffalo News you'd know they haven't even offered A contract. The last articles I saw were talking about how they were "talking" but Vanek was quoted as not being offered a contract.

I think they would rather have him in Minnesota much like they had Miller stay at Michigan St.

He also plays against college kids, remember that. I'm not saying he won't be a stud, I hope he is.

Yes, that's right, they haven't even tried to sign him, yet if you had read it a few weeks ago, the GM made it sound like they were going to. They are CHEAP! You are getting the Sabre spin through these articles, from what I've heard, Vanek wants to go, but he isn't not going to sign for less then what Parise got.

I know he is playing against college kids, but it's a man among boys kind of deal offensively, he's ready to take the next step, but, we will gladly keep him for another year.

[Karim]

Just a rumour that's floating around here, but apparently Conroy has rejected a $6.75 million/3 year deal. Sutter's track record so far indicates he doesn't negotiate with UFAs. He offers them a deal, it's on the table and after a while it will be off. RFAs are more crucial to this team and that's where Sutter will spend the time negotiating.

[Tekneek]

If Conroy rejected that, he is a fool. I will be absolutely amazed if he gets more than that from anyone.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Cards4ever

Yes, that's right, they haven't even tried to sign him, yet if you had read it a few weeks ago, the GM made it sound like they were going to. They are CHEAP! You are getting the Sabre spin through these articles, from what I've heard, Vanek wants to go, but he isn't not going to sign for less then what Parise got.

I know he is playing against college kids, but it's a man among boys kind of deal offensively, he's ready to take the next step, but, we will gladly keep him for another year.

I'm sure you being from Minnesota has no bearing on your mistaken opinion now does it?

How can you try to sign someone without offering a contract? It has nothing to do with being cheap. I wouldn't say ESPN.com puts a Sabre spin on anything. Jim Kelley certainly doesn't suck up to them either.

Who? You mean Paille? I don't blame Vanek for wanting as much as Paille, he deserves it. You're certainly not going to hear me bash Vanek. Are the Sabres free spending? Nope. Are they cheap? I don't consider them cheap under Golisano. They are still fighting that stigma that they rightfully earned under the idiot Rigas'.

[Cards4ever]

Vanek likely to turn pro
BY BRUCE BROTHERS
Pioneer Press

Gophers hockey star Thomas Vanek is as good as gone.

Vanek, a two-year scoring phenom at the University of Minnesota who was a first-round draft pick of the Buffalo Sabres last June, reportedly has begun negotiations and is expected to sign a pro contract with the Sabres in the near future.

The 6-foot-2, 207-pound left wing from Austria led the Gophers in scoring as a freshman and a sophomore and was selected the most outstanding player of the Frozen Four when he led Minnesota to its second consecutive NCAA championship in 2003.

Sabres general manager Darcy Regier told the Associated Press he has had preliminary talks with Vanek's advisers, and said he believes Vanek, 20, is up to the challenge of pro hockey.

"I think you can always accomplish more no matter where you are. But I think there's another question and that's, 'Is there another step he's ready to make?' " Regier said. "And certainly I think he's ready to play at the American Hockey League level, and maybe even at the National Hockey League level."

The AHL affiliate of Buffalo, which drafted Vanek fifth overall last June, is the Rochester Americans.

Gophers coach Don Lucia, although he's not a believer of anyone leaving college to play minor league hockey, has always encouraged his players to take the big money if it's offered.

"I think it all boils down to is if Buffalo wants to sign him," Lucia told the AP. "And if they do in fact want to sign him, what kind of contract are they willing to give him to have him leave school?"

Vanek led all freshmen in scoring with 62 points in his first season and has 57 goals and 56 assists for 113 points in 83 games for the Gophers.

[Cards4ever]

That article is from early June Chubby and being from Minnesota, I'm biased to a certain point, like I said, I'd love for him to play another season for the Gophers.

I'm also talking about Parise, NJ signed him right after the college season for the max possible, that is what Vanek is going to want.

[Chubby]

"Sabres general manager Darcy Regier told the Associated Press he has had preliminary talks with Vanek's advisers, and said he believes Vanek, 20, is up to the challenge of pro hockey. "

Pre-lim talks, exactly like I said. They haven't offered a contract. "Likely" is the key word, the fact that you are Gopher supporter obviously clouds your judgement. If Vanek was so can't-miss he wouldn't have dropped off in production his sophomore year now would he?

Nothing in that article shows Buffalo as cheap. There's been no contract offered. For all we know Vanek could be asking for some insane salary and bonuses, who knows. The Sabres are very tightlipped in regards to contracts anyways.

The fact that there are some talks going on seems to have given all the Gopher fans reason to think that he'll be gone the next day. Sabres don't work that way, nothing to do with being cheap.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Cards4ever

That article is from early June Chubby and being from Minnesota, I'm biased to a certain point, like I said, I'd love for him to play another season for the Gophers.

I'm also talking about Parise, NJ signed him right after the college season for the max possible, that is what Vanek is going to want.

Ahh ok, I heard about him. Thought you were talking about Paille who the Sabres just signed otherwise they would have lost his rights.

Comparing the Sabres to the Devils financially is foolish. I'm not saying Vanek doesn't deserve that kind of money but people need to realize that the Sabres don't have the $ that the Devils and some others do. You can't compare how much Colorado offers a guy to how much Edmonton offers someone. They aren't playing under the same rules.

That being said, Vanek will be signed. At this point it doesn't matter if they take their time or not. There's not going to be any NHL games for him to play in for a while. Personally, I'd rather see him in Minnesota another season if the NHL labor thing drags out.

[Cards4ever]

Originally Posted by Chubby

"Sabres general manager Darcy Regier told the Associated Press he has had preliminary talks with Vanek's advisers, and said he believes Vanek, 20, is up to the challenge of pro hockey. "

Pre-lim talks, exactly like I said. They haven't offered a contract. "Likely" is the key word, the fact that you are Gopher supporter obviously clouds your judgement. If Vanek was so can't-miss he wouldn't have dropped off in production his sophomore year now would he?

Nothing in that article shows Buffalo as cheap. There's been no contract offered. For all we know Vanek could be asking for some insane salary and bonuses, who knows. The Sabres are very tightlipped in regards to contracts anyways.

The fact that there are some talks going on seems to have given all the Gopher fans reason to think that he'll be gone the next day. Sabres don't work that way, nothing to do with being cheap.

So, because you're a Sabre supporter doesn't cloud your thinking?

Tell me, how many games have you seen Vanek play? I'm not some guy that tunes in a few games Chubby, I watch alot of hockey and go to alot of games, when someone is that good, even I can usually tell.

We'll just have to agree to disagree I guess about Sabre management, I think history is on my side, but YMMV.

You would rather see him play another season in the NCAA then playing in the AHL when/if the lockout is ended? If it was my favorite NHL team, I'd have to disagree with that thinking, again YMMV.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Cards4ever

We'll just have to agree to disagree I guess about Sabre management, I think history is on my side, but YMMV.

I said earlier you have history on your side. I also said I don't think Golisano is the same way as Rigas was.

Originally Posted by Cards4ever

You would rather see him play another season in the NCAA then playing in the AHL when/if the lockout is ended? If it was my favorite NHL team, I'd have to disagree with that thinking, again YMMV.

I would. Even if it means I wouldn't get the chance to watch him 40+ times a year (he'd play here in Rochester). I'll use Miller as an example. He played 3 seasons at Michigan St then came here to Rochester and tore it up. Where'd that get him? A quick call-up to Buffalo where he's been hit or miss.

Vanek will not want to play more than a year in Rochester (AHL) and the Sabres won't want him to either if they are shelling out big $ to him. So yes, I'd much rather him develop more in college THEN play a season in the AHL before he goes to Buffalo instead of him playing this year in the AHL (where he won't get as much time as a normal season because of the lockout) then going to Buffalo next season. Another year of development is good for any prospect IMO.

The knock on Vanek is that he takes plays off, correct? It's been a while since I really looked into him so I'm not quite sure if I remember correctly. His numbers dropped last year at Minnesota. Now this may have been because his supporting cast wasn't as good, I don't know, you'd know better than I. But if he has the potential everyone says he does, I want him to be consistent NOT another Miro.

[Draft Dodger]

wow - Lalime to the Blues for a 4th round pick.

personally, I really like Lalime. Honestly, I'd much rather have him be the goalie for my team than Hasek. He needed a change of scenery though, and the Blues really make out because of this.

[Karim]

The Blues have secured the present, near present and future in goal. I think it was a good draft for St. Louis.

[Draft Dodger]

dola...

Hasek and Lalime have identical .930 save percentages in the playoffs...and Lalime has a better GAA.

[Karim]

Have any of you read the book "Net Worth" by Cruise and Griffiths circa 1992?

I remember it being all the rage back then and I always meant to pick up a copy. I finally purchused a used one off of Amazon because it is out of print.

It's quite shocking. The NHL has been easily the most backward and corrupt sports league in North America. For the better part of a century the league was a monopoly ran by the Norris and Smythe families and their minions such as Jack Adams and Clarence Campbell. The players were treated basically no better than cattle. And attempts to improve their situation, such as not wanting to play on Christmas was met with personal humiliation and possible retaliatory action such as permanent demotion. The owners and general managers were all in collusion to ensure player advances didn't occur. Meanwhile, they cooked the books to make it appear that player salaries were making hockey an unprofitable venture. It is little wonder players do not trust the owners.

I was also shocked to hear about the amount of interest in the US. Places like Louisiana and Florida were interested in hockey. In 1957, CBS had just offered the AFL a $26 million TV contract and was looking to offer the NHL a similar type deal. The owners were stuck in the 1930s and refused arguing about the difficulty in creating schedules, travel and dilution of talent. Among the minimal TV the NHL had, camera crues were bribed to take the night off instead of having to pay for a full broadcast. When TV networks asked to remove seats for better sight lines, the owners refused. Meanwhile, the other three sports were doing everything to accomodate television.

A fascinating read if you manage to get a copy.

[Tekneek]

The NHL has created all of the problems that are coming home to roost now. The current regime may not have done it, but it demonstrates how bad decisions over time have unintended consequences.

[Cards4ever]

Originally Posted by Chubby

I said earlier you have history on your side. I also said I don't think Golisano is the same way as Rigas was.



I would. Even if it means I wouldn't get the chance to watch him 40+ times a year (he'd play here in Rochester). I'll use Miller as an example. He played 3 seasons at Michigan St then came here to Rochester and tore it up. Where'd that get him? A quick call-up to Buffalo where he's been hit or miss.

Vanek will not want to play more than a year in Rochester (AHL) and the Sabres won't want him to either if they are shelling out big $ to him. So yes, I'd much rather him develop more in college THEN play a season in the AHL before he goes to Buffalo instead of him playing this year in the AHL (where he won't get as much time as a normal season because of the lockout) then going to Buffalo next season. Another year of development is good for any prospect IMO.

The knock on Vanek is that he takes plays off, correct? It's been a while since I really looked into him so I'm not quite sure if I remember correctly. His numbers dropped last year at Minnesota. Now this may have been because his supporting cast wasn't as good, I don't know, you'd know better than I. But if he has the potential everyone says he does, I want him to be consistent NOT another Miro.

His production went down because of injury, and because he was the most shadowed player on the Minnesota roster and the players he played with were not able to put the puck in the net on his passes. Another factor is, every team that the Gophers played this season were out there to knock off the back to back Champs. Imagine the Yankees having to play Boston every game, that is what it is like for Minnesota hockey, every team in the WCHA wants to knock off Minnesota.

The knock on Vanek is defensive ability, plain and simple. Offensively, he's the only player to be out there as much as he wants, a rarity for a Lucia team.

[Chief Rum]

Well, color me officially concerned about the Ducks now.

I knew management had given orders to drop the payroll from the $54.5 M (8th overall in NHL) last year, but apparently it's a pretty deep cut.

Gerber we all knew was going to go, because it just makes sense with Bryzgalov ready to back up Jiggy. But Havelid was a surprise. I think that's a big time indicator that some changes are going to happen.

Federov and Prospal will be making about $8 M less this year than last year, so the team payroll was down to $46 M before doing anything. But apparently that's not enough.

The team needs to decide on Carney's option this week, and will need to make qualifying offers to Vishnevsky, Salei and Neidermeyer as well to keep them. Right now, I'm not certain they will make any of those offers.

I have been considering the state of the team's defense, and it may not be so bad, as we still have Ozolinsh and Skoula for offensive blueliners, and I don't think we'll let more than one of Salei-Vishnevsky-Carney go (we really don't have any other options there). Plus, we have highly-regarded Popovic ready to play for a role, and we drafted Smid (although he's supposed to be not ready for the NHL in 2005-06).

Still, that lack of depth is scary to me. If we bring back Carney and let's say Vish, we have our front four set, but a bunch of rookies and never-turned-out well prospects to compete for the fifth thru seventh defensemen spots. Are we really going to be depending on Malek (the D-man we got from the Canes for Gerbs), and Foster (this guy who never seemed to turn out with the Thrashers) and Popovic (the rookie) to fill key defensive roles? And that's if we even bring back Carney and one of the other D-man--nothing is set yet on that.

But what really concerns me is on offense. We had troubles there as it was, and now it looks like we're shopping both Prospal and Sykora.

What are we going to get in return to make moving them worth it? It's a buyer's market out there, because everyone knows the teams with something to offer are looking to cut costs in case of a lockout. I'm afraid we're going to just throw these guys away to someone (much as we just did Havelid).

And if we move those guys, who do we keep to staff our lines? Federov, Rucchin and Pahlsson are fine vet centers, but we will have real problems on the wings. Ugh, it's not a great time to be a Ducks fan. I hope we can get a CBA that helps address some of the problems that have contributed to this situation.

CR

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

wow - Lalime to the Blues for a 4th round pick.

personally, I really like Lalime. Honestly, I'd much rather have him be the goalie for my team than Hasek. He needed a change of scenery though, and the Blues really make out because of this.

Damn, I just saw this on Sports Sunday. That's what I get for skipping this thread too many times.

What a pickup!!!!

Todd

[sterlingice]

Man, what is it with you guys and goalies who fold faster in the playoffs than cheap lawn furniture. First Turek, then Osgood, now Lalime. I'd say "Who next {insert name here}" but I can't come up with anyone that would sound like hyperbole when put up next to them.

Seriously, tho, that's a nice pickup for you bastards. Unlike the previous two, I think Lalime just had a bad game at a bad time but it's not habitual.

SI

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Man, what is it with you guys and goalies who fold faster in the playoffs than cheap lawn furniture. First Turek, then Osgood, now Lalime. I'd say "Who next {insert name here}" but I can't come up with anyone that would sound like hyperbole when put up next to them.

I can. They should go get Cechmanik, especially now that the Kings think they have their goaltender of the future in Garon.

CR

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Man, what is it with you guys and goalies who fold faster in the playoffs than cheap lawn furniture. First Turek, then Osgood, now Lalime. I'd say "Who next {insert name here}" but I can't come up with anyone that would sound like hyperbole when put up next to them.

Seriously, tho, that's a nice pickup for you bastards. Unlike the previous two, I think Lalime just had a bad game at a bad time but it's not habitual.

SI

Yeah, tell me about it... although I really like Lalime. Now we need to sign Brett Hull and Brendan Shanahan.


Todd

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Yeah, tell me about it... although I really like Lalime. Now we need to sign Brett Hull and Brendan Shanahan.


Todd

That'd give you what, a $80 million pay roll and you'd still get knocked out in the first round!

It will be interesting to see if Lalime will be the answer to the Blues prayers. He backstopped some very solid Ottawa teams and wasn't able to take them anywhere...

Hull is a goner. There is still some talk of Shanahan sticking with the Wings. The Wings declined to exercise his $6.5 million option, but are trying to bring Shanny back at a lower salary level. Shanahan wants to stay in Detroit. He's been here for 8 years now. That said, I reckon he may try to test the free agent waters to see what there is to see. The Wings are close to bringing back Draper. Schneider as well. Datsyuk is an unrestricted free agent and apparently he and the Wings are "far apart" at the moment.

The Wings didn't have a draft pick until the 3rd round. I don't really have much to chime in on their picks. Maybe in a few more years. Apparently the Wings have all their picks for next year though!